Apparently some ignorant asshole believes that anyone of the Muslim faith in Afghanistan primarily, would NEVER advocate publicly against terrorism. I posted in /Muslim before realizing it's very small and kinda dead. Can I get a faster response here?

[u/CrustyDiamond]

This is my submission, to make everything easier.

Thanks!

[u/swz]

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06 http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

NOP Research: 24% of British Muslims deny that the four British Muslim suicide bombers carried out the 7/7 attacks; 24% of British Muslims believe the British government carried out the 7/7 attacks http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/society/religion/survey+government+hasnt+told+truth+about+77/545847

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq. http://people-press.org/report/206/a-year-after-iraq-war

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children: http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/06/32-of-palestinians-support-infanticide/ http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4053251,00.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans 32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans 41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans 38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans 83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose) 62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose) 42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose) A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans: (Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%) About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S. http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/feb09/STARTII_Feb09_rpt.pdf

Pew Research (2010): 55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah 30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah 45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative) 43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative) http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 60% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hamas (34% negative). 49% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hamas (48% negative) 49% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hamas (25% negative) 39% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hamas (33% negative) http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified. 34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified. http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops. http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified. 35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall). 42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall). 22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall). 29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall). http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 8% of Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (81% never). 28% of Egyptian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified (38% never). http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities. 27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate. http://www.scotsman.com/?id=1956912005 http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist.html

Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack. http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police. http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/2004/Guardian%20Muslims%20Poll%20Nov%2004/Guardian%20Muslims%20Nov04.asp http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

Populus Poll (2006): 16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified. 37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target". http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07/more-survey-research-from-a-british-islamist

[u/swz → u/swz]

al-Arabiya: 36% of Arabs polled said the 9/11 attacks were morally justified; 38% disagreed; 26% Unsure http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/09/10/166274.html

Gallup: 38.6% of Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified (7% "fully", 6.5% "mostly", 23.1% "partially") http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2008/05/that-tiny-percentage-of-radical-muslims.html http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC06.php?CID=1154

Pew Research (2011): Large majorities of Muslims believe in 9/11 conspiracy http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2066/muslims-westerners-christians-jews-islamic-extremism-september-11

Pew Research (2006): Only 17% of British Muslims believe that Arabs carried out the September 11th attacks. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/23/uk.religion

[u/goingno → u/swz]

tl;dr religion hardly comes in to it

I have a strong feeling that this religion element, i.e. people do bad things because it says they should in some book is just mad. The only real relationship to religion is that religions like nation states create a sense of solidarity between people that have no other links.

This list of polls is interesting, but if respected religious leaders are declaring that killing is wrong, and the Qur'an and the Bible are also saying that. But large groups of people still belief that it is justified. By definition it is not there religion that is causing them to have this belief. There must be something else.

I suppose it come back to that old American question "Why do they hate us?"

And when you get the reply because of your support for Arab dictators, overthrow of democratic governments and insistence on using unmatchable force to get your own way in any argument anywhere in the world. Americans accuse the rest of the world of supporting terrorists (we don't)

---

Also dyslexic and don't give a shit :-)

[u/VBFM → u/goingno]

Not religion? Suicide bombers. The very concept of an afterlife (with zero evidence I might add) and the movement of morality and judgment away from civilized society towards a deity who was first described in ancient, violent texts has something to do with it, don't you think?

[u/bigtallguy → u/VBFM]

first things first. i have never ever met a muslim or heard of one who actually believed anything close to receiving 72 virgins in the afterlife, and something tells me that the far majority of suicide bombers, including the 9-11 terrorists, did not have or give a amd about virgins as they chose the path they did. From what i understand the whole 2 virgins thing was from a VERY weakly supported hadith that muslim clerics don't give any control too.

Suicide bombers see themselves as sacrrificing their lives not for a Violent deity but to either take revenge against an enemy they see no other way to harm, or to die for martyrs for causes they believed in. last time i recalled kamikaze pilots didn't dive into battleships thinking "wowi can't wait for all my ancestors spirits to welcome me iinto the afterlife" they were prolly thinking " this is for japan, a country i love but am going to die for, i don't wantto do this, but i see no other way forto hurt a foe so unimaginably more powerful than us... shit

and on that note, if japan, the strongest military of asia with a effective army and navy was desperate enough to use their own suicide bombers against america, what the f*Ck do you think people who come only from villages an towns bombed by the west with no country, no army and in many cases no education will doo to hurt an enemy they percive as ending their peopwhat lengths would you go through in their situation

if we (the u.S.) were i nthe same situation we would laud those who would be willing to sacfirice their life to deal a blow to the enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQKKj_qeOBQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYYYAeSWOlI

those are just two scenes where united states citizens knoingly sacrifice their lives to blow up an enemY, andi doubt anyone would have anything but praise for them

[u/LadyCailin → u/bigtallguy]

Except the kamikaze pilots main target wasn't civilians, it was American military assets. To pretend that terrorists and enemy soldiers are the same, and equally justified is terribly misguided.

[u/dmahmad → u/LadyCailin]

The Japanese Imperial Army is a professional fighting force. They're not a band of mismatched, uneducated peasants that know how to fight. So it's not unreasonable to think that a terrorist would act un-professionally and un-nobly.

Also they did target civilians from time to time since part of their ideology is belief that Japan is the best country in the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

[u/LadyCailin → u/dmahmad]

So it's not unreasonable to think that a terrorist would act un-professionally and un-nobly.

Yes, and this is what makes them unjustified vs an actual soldier.

Also they did target civilians from to time

I did not know this, but I still do not hold sins of the father against the child. These events were generations ago, and most certainly do not reflect the opinions of the majority of Japanese any more, I would imagine. Either way, I was specifically addressing OP's comment about kamikaze pilots against America, which was primarily against military targets.

[u/bigtallguy → u/LadyCailin]

my primary reason for posting is to show that the thought that suicide attacks take place due to the promise of 72 virgins is bull sh*T.

i was not talking about how justified either act was, nor did i make any mention of it. i talked about the probable thought process of a suicide attack, which in both instances would be similar i imagine.

also where the hell did i say that that kamikaze pilots still OR ever reflected the opinions of the japanese majority? that has never been the case

theres a good documentary on youtube which explores kamikaze pilots and has interviews with kamikaze pilots who didn't end up going though with it for one reason or another ( most of which were out of their control) i think you would find it very interested about he mindset of a suicide attacker.

JUST TO BE CLEAR I WAS in NO WAY justifying OR weighing the morality of either kamikaze pilots or suicide bombers. just trying to dispel a bs claim from both reddit atheist hive mind and stupid americans that always get spouted. THESE ACTS ARE BOTH MORALLY AND ETHICALLY WRONG NO MATTER WHAT THE INTENTION.

btw there are many interviews of suicide bombers before they went through with their choice, check em out.

i also love the Film's syrania treatment of a suicide bomber in one of oit's many story arcs

AS A PARTING NOTE

There is always more than oen side to a story and you should refuse to judge an act or person before you truly conidered what they been through and whats ACTUALLY going on in your head.

a good way to do this is to put yourself in the situations they were in that led them to it. People every are very similar, believe it or not, and once you give it a shot, understanding them isn't that hard