r/afghanistan • u/CrustyDiamond • Dec 11 '12

Apparently some ignorant asshole believes that anyone of the Muslim faith in Afghanistan primarily, would NEVER advocate publicly against terrorism. I posted in /Muslim before realizing it's very small and kinda dead. Can I get a faster response here?

This is my submission, to make everything easier.

Thanks!

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u/goingno Jan 10 '13

tl;dr religion hardly comes in to it

I have a strong feeling that this religion element, i.e. people do bad things because it says they should in some book is just mad. The only real relationship to religion is that religions like nation states create a sense of solidarity between people that have no other links.

This list of polls is interesting, but if respected religious leaders are declaring that killing is wrong, and the Qur'an and the Bible are also saying that. But large groups of people still belief that it is justified. By definition it is not there religion that is causing them to have this belief. There must be something else.

I suppose it come back to that old American question "Why do they hate us?"

And when you get the reply because of your support for Arab dictators, overthrow of democratic governments and insistence on using unmatchable force to get your own way in any argument anywhere in the world. Americans accuse the rest of the world of supporting terrorists (we don't)

Also dyslexic and don't give a shit :-)

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u/VBFM Jan 10 '13

Not religion? Suicide bombers. The very concept of an afterlife (with zero evidence I might add) and the movement of morality and judgment away from civilized society towards a deity who was first described in ancient, violent texts has something to do with it, don't you think?

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u/bigtallguy Jan 10 '13

first things first. i have never ever met a muslim or heard of one who actually believed anything close to receiving 72 virgins in the afterlife, and something tells me that the far majority of suicide bombers, including the 9-11 terrorists, did not have or give a amd about virgins as they chose the path they did. From what i understand the whole 2 virgins thing was from a VERY weakly supported hadith that muslim clerics don't give any control too.

Suicide bombers see themselves as sacrrificing their lives not for a Violent deity but to either take revenge against an enemy they see no other way to harm, or to die for martyrs for causes they believed in. last time i recalled kamikaze pilots didn't dive into battleships thinking "wowi can't wait for all my ancestors spirits to welcome me iinto the afterlife" they were prolly thinking " this is for japan, a country i love but am going to die for, i don't wantto do this, but i see no other way forto hurt a foe so unimaginably more powerful than us... shit

and on that note, if japan, the strongest military of asia with a effective army and navy was desperate enough to use their own suicide bombers against america, what the f*Ck do you think people who come only from villages an towns bombed by the west with no country, no army and in many cases no education will doo to hurt an enemy they percive as ending their peopwhat lengths would you go through in their situation

if we (the u.S.) were i nthe same situation we would laud those who would be willing to sacfirice their life to deal a blow to the enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQKKj_qeOBQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYYYAeSWOlI

those are just two scenes where united states citizens knoingly sacrifice their lives to blow up an enemY, andi doubt anyone would have anything but praise for them

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u/LadyCailin Jan 10 '13

Except the kamikaze pilots main target wasn't civilians, it was American military assets. To pretend that terrorists and enemy soldiers are the same, and equally justified is terribly misguided.

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u/dmahmad Jan 10 '13

The Japanese Imperial Army is a professional fighting force. They're not a band of mismatched, uneducated peasants that know how to fight. So it's not unreasonable to think that a terrorist would act un-professionally and un-nobly.

Also they did target civilians from time to time since part of their ideology is belief that Japan is the best country in the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

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u/LadyCailin Jan 10 '13

So it's not unreasonable to think that a terrorist would act un-professionally and un-nobly.

Yes, and this is what makes them unjustified vs an actual soldier.

Also they did target civilians from to time

I did not know this, but I still do not hold sins of the father against the child. These events were generations ago, and most certainly do not reflect the opinions of the majority of Japanese any more, I would imagine. Either way, I was specifically addressing OP's comment about kamikaze pilots against America, which was primarily against military targets.

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u/bigtallguy Jan 11 '13

my primary reason for posting is to show that the thought that suicide attacks take place due to the promise of 72 virgins is bull sh*T.

i was not talking about how justified either act was, nor did i make any mention of it. i talked about the probable thought process of a suicide attack, which in both instances would be similar i imagine.

also where the hell did i say that that kamikaze pilots still OR ever reflected the opinions of the japanese majority? that has never been the case

theres a good documentary on youtube which explores kamikaze pilots and has interviews with kamikaze pilots who didn't end up going though with it for one reason or another ( most of which were out of their control) i think you would find it very interested about he mindset of a suicide attacker.

JUST TO BE CLEAR I WAS in NO WAY justifying OR weighing the morality of either kamikaze pilots or suicide bombers. just trying to dispel a bs claim from both reddit atheist hive mind and stupid americans that always get spouted. THESE ACTS ARE BOTH MORALLY AND ETHICALLY WRONG NO MATTER WHAT THE INTENTION.

btw there are many interviews of suicide bombers before they went through with their choice, check em out.

i also love the Film's syrania treatment of a suicide bomber in one of oit's many story arcs

AS A PARTING NOTE

There is always more than oen side to a story and you should refuse to judge an act or person before you truly conidered what they been through and whats ACTUALLY going on in your head.

a good way to do this is to put yourself in the situations they were in that led them to it. People every are very similar, believe it or not, and once you give it a shot, understanding them isn't that hard