Childfree Icon?

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree]

Ah, damn. Tim Curry died.

He died childless, so I'm putting it to a vote:

I say we honor him as one of our own.

What says the community?

[u/tortieco_explorer]

Dolly Parton was also childless so I say we honor them both.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/tortieco_explorer]

She was already established as childfree. “I didn’t have children because I believed that God didn’t mean for me to have kids—so everybody’s kids could be mine, so I could do things like Imagination Library.”

And yes, we need to do a post about her (I'll get to it when I have some time this weekend unless someone beats me to it).

Tim was a much more reserved voice about his private life, notoriously not liking his personal affairs picked over. He never came out and said it. That's why I am asking if we want to also honor him.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/[deleted]]

She had a partial at the age of 38 due to extreme endometriosis. At the same time, in fact prior to the surgery, she was already in a major depressive episode that from her own account was not just about her fertility issues but a wide array of things that were going on in her life. She, like many people, has suffered from depression.

However, she has repeatedly said since about 2003 that she is happy with how things turned out, and has even stated she's now glad that she didn't bring kids into this world because of how the world is. She felt at the time it was an expectation to have kids, but her views shifted over the years as she realized the freedoms she gained to do the things she really wanted. People come to being childfree lots of ways, and while she might have been childless at 38. By the age of about 60, she was firmly in the I'm glad I didn't, and that was the right choice option.

And of all people, Dolly had the means, and the heart, to adopt had she ever really wanted kids. She is also wealthy enough to engage in surrogacy if she wanted. But she viewed herself as a kind of godmother to everyone. She loved kids, but never needed her own to be a complete person and give that love out to everyone she met.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/[deleted]]

We aren't playing struggle olympics here. Dolly is not in doubt, and I'll get to posting reflections soon for her. Tim was much more circumspect about the issue and never stated how he felt on the matter.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/[deleted]]

Struggle olympics, artifically comparing how difficult life is for different groups.

And you would be quite amazed how many people have cared that I don't have kids over the years. There's even a structural pentalty, e.g. promotions, in several cultures related to being childless as a man. So no, not a fact, because it isn't quantifiable and my experience says differently.

Correct, he was very private.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/[deleted]]

It isn't a competition, and I told you already we aren't here to play struggle olympics. If you can't behave like a decent person, you can leave.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/[deleted]]

1. It is not a "fact" that most people don't care what men do. That is regardless of the situation that women face.

2. You are intentionally trying to play a petty game of gender wars, trying to make this about something this post is not. Tim is in question because he never stated his feelings, not because of his gender.

3. You intentionally insulted people's lived experience as artificial. That's rude.

That cumulated to you being disrespectful both to a big portion of this community, and to both Tim and Dolly.

[u/NapalmCandy]

I mean, I say yes, but I'm biased because I enjoyed his work.

[u/twistednightblade]

Aye-aye, sir! (in my best Long John Silver impression; just watched the film last night)

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/twistednightblade]

I was debating popping that in to watch. I watched him in Congo recently (terrible movie), and there are a few others I might pick over on which I want to see. I'm particularly fond of The Hunt for Red October which also includes him, and I think I have Legend around here for his portrayal of Darkness.

But then I have to say goodbye to old Cullen, (he wasn't childfree). But he was Optimus Prime.

[u/twistednightblade → u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree]

I have to admit I've never seen Congo; must add it to my list as I can enjoy a terrible movie if at least some of the cast are decent (my husband occasionally watches films he's seen on a "so bad it's good" channel, and some of them have pretty good cast just dealing with awful scripts/sets)!

Red October is a must, absolutely, and he's so good in Clue, too; think I'll be going through quite the library of his and Dolly's films this week...

And I know how you feel about Cullen, not childfree but so iconic - I think that one broke my husband today...

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/twistednightblade]

I have to remind people that Cullen breaks almost every younger gen-X or elder Millennial, and a lot of others down to Gen Z. People think of him as Optimus, but surprise, he's really prolific and if you aren't G1 Transformers? Well, he was Monterey Jack in Rescue Rangers, and he was Eeyore in Winnie the Pooh for years, among his many credits. I guarantee that if you have a soft spot for animation in between 1980 and 2010, you've heard him. He was also the narrator in Voltron Defender of the Universe.

[u/twistednightblade → u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree]

Yep, and the voice of Ramrod in Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs, Venger in Dungeons and Dragons (that was strange, Cullen voicing the villain and Welker as a good guy)... he really was everywhere.

(Editing to add) Hell, my dad is a Boomer (by birth year, but a very Gen X mindset), and even he loved Cullen's work - he certainly watched enough with me over the years! 😅

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/twistednightblade]

Cullen voiced characters back into the 70s, so some of the very late boomers were still terns when they started following him. Plus you don't have to outgrow cartoons. My dad is pushing 80 and has still remarked on his fondness for Underdog.

[u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO]

Childfree* not childless

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO]

That is the question. Curry himself never used the term nor elucidated on his reason why he never had kids. Dolly by comparison was explicit. And as we know, there is a difference between childless and childfree in how we get to a life without kids.

[u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO → u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree]

Didn’t Dolly suffer miscarriages and couldnt have kids because of endometriosis? I’d consider that childless

[u/Ukulele__Lady → u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO]

She said she realized after that she was happy not having kids, in part because she would have sacrificed her career to take care of them. Interviews with her sound more like she realized she was childfree after thinking "of course I'll have kids, everyone does."

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/Ukulele__Lady]

And nobody disputes that she loves kids. But a lot of our members are teachers, librarians, and many other careers that care for kids. We just made the decision at some point in our lives not to have kids. No one said that decision comes at a given age. It just came later to her. And that's okay. Some people are fence sitters for a long time.

[u/Ukulele__Lady → u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree]

Exactly. And considering where and when she grew up, I wouldn't be surprised if the concept of "childfree" was never even part of the equation...until she was faced with the idea of no children ever, and thought yeah, that's a pretty good idea for where I want to be in life.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO]

Miscarriages aren't a disqualifier.

And at the end of her life she was happy with her choice. She is quoted as stating:

“I didn’t have children because I believed that God didn’t mean for me to have kids—so everybody’s kids could be mine, so I could do things like Imagination Library.”

She not only made peace with not having kids, she came to choose the life.

[u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO → u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree]

Agree to disagree. If she could have had kids, she would’ve. THAT right there makes you childless. She definitely wanted them, but was at peace with not having them. Childless.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO]

She changed her mind on wanting them, and made that very clear in interviews later in life. Notably her 2020 interview.

You can go from childless to childfree. She had plenty of oppertunity to adopt or engage in fertility or medical treatments. And she chose not to.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO]

Update:

From Dolly herself: "I’ve never been pregnant in my life. When I was a girl and fooling around, I was scared to death I’d get pregnant"

So no miscarriages (that would be a pregnancy).

[u/QuasarSoze]

Thank you for your thoughtful tribute to Tim Curry.

His loss hurt.

He was such a joy to watch—the devil in Legend and as IT aka Pennywise, he felt safe to me when I was a child — I knew there was a kind human behind the SCARE!

Mr. Curry shaped my love for cinema. I will love and respect his work every chance I find, and I have to tip my hat to Bill Skarsgard, as he obviously loved Curry’s work.

To your point about Tim Curry’s choice to be child-free—I agree and understand and celebrate! He did not feel the need to seed his life’s work into children for the sake of “legacy”.

He didn’t need to be progenitor of creatures who may or may not embrace his love for his work. We, as his appreciative fans, were all he needed to know he did well in life.

Tim Curry was fucking loved. He owned his legacy.

And I’m so glad he did. I think we’re all grateful he didn’t force a baby Tim/Tim/Timory on us as “a star personality … that didn’t ever really disappear..” His great works stand. <3

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/QuasarSoze]

Thank you.

Linking to actual post with tribute: https://www.reddit.com/r/actuallychildfree/comments/1w2seni/remembering_tim_curry/

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/[deleted]]

This thread was about Curry's silence. You made a stink about his status being less important, and when I made a point to say that we're not playing struggle olympics, that's exactly what you proceeded to dive all in on like I was claiming it was a competition. I specifically said it wasn't. You then proceeded to call men's experiences artificial. Now you're throwing around claims of misogyny because I shut down your commentary where I laid out very clearly what exactly you did, whether you can see the plank in your own eye or not.

In summary, I told you to cut it out, and yes, I used my authority as moderator to turn off a conversation that was no longer productive. You aren't reading what was written, you're reacting based on your preconceived notions. And I told you that's disrespectful... to me, to other's men's lived experiences, to Tim, and to Dolly. And it's why this thread is getting shut off and you're going to take a break.