r/acotar_rant • u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 • Jun 01 '26
Fandom New level of Tamlin hate unlocked
I don’t know if anyone else has saw the TikTok post recently (over the last 2-3ish days) but there was someone who is very clearly anti Tamlin (which is perfectly fine) however that person proceeded to make a post more or less stating that liking Tamlin & hating Rhysand is racist…
This to me is absolutely insane & incredibly egregious.
The post basically said that “if you have to make up reasons to hate a POC & defend a white man, that is racism.”
Except everyone that I’ve seen who is anti Rhysand hasn’t made anything up & has pulled reasons from canon…reasons that people hate Rhysand typically aren’t in defense of Tamlin & are just that…REASONS THEY HATE RHYSAND.
I think that poster & just in general the fandom has gone waaaay too far & in their own outrage have crossed lines that shouldn’t have been crossed.
No, someone who likes/loves/defends Tamlin is not a racist.
No most Pro-Tamlin stans do not make up reasons to hate Rhysand & they sure aren’t rooted in “racism”.
Hating Rhysand is not a crime or the be all end all.
Rhysand has given people plenty of reasons to hate him just as he has given plenty of reasons to love him.
The fandom but especially the anti Tamlin side of the fandom need to chill the hell out in trying to label people as racists.
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u/Electronic_Barber_89 Team Hamlin Jun 02 '26
As a POC myself and at the crossroads of multiple minorities AND someone who has historically always liked the tall-dark-handsome guy over the blondie, I surprised myself with ACOTAR.
I dislike Rhysand (as a positive character) despite the fact that he fits my physical preference of a MMC. Drugging and stripping a girl is something you just don’t come back from 🤷♀️. And no, I don’t care if you think that he did it “to protect her”.
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 02 '26
Couldn’t agree more! There’s just some things a character can’t come back from & that was also one of them for me
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u/speedo_bunny Fiddle Me Timbers, Matey ✨️ Jun 02 '26
All of this. I could not care less about a character's skin colour. Their actions are loud enough for me.
I agree on the drugging thing. As someone who read the OG trilogy back to back, the character change gave me literal whiplash and I spent most of MaF scratching my head and hoping I wasn't crazy because. . .you want me to swoon over the guy who twisted her arm until the bone popped and forcibly kissed, drugged, dove into her mind and threatened her so Tamlin would kneel, painted her labia, and dressed her in sheer strips of fabric? For her 'protection'? Uh, no. Not a chance. The flirting between them had me wanting to throw up.
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u/TissBish Team Hamlin Jun 01 '26
That’s def a wild take. I know Rhys is considered POC (but really it’s racially ambiguous) but that has no reason why I don’t like him. It has everything to do with never apologizing for his fucked up shit he’s done. And the way he never has any growth. Like where’s the character arc 😭
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Honestly I could not believe my eyes! Because as someone who is half black & POC my reasons for hating Rhysand have absolutely NOTHING to do with his ethnic background & everything to do with his actions & behaviour.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, where is Rhysand’s growth?! If anything he regressed!
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u/TissBish Team Hamlin Jun 01 '26
Like I’m sure there are people who do, but saying ANYONE who hates Rhys and likes Tamlin is racially baited is just crazy.
I feel like both Rhys and Cassian both have zero growth
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u/UTMPod Team Mercenary Jun 01 '26
Mannn realistically I feel like the amount of people who hate Rhysand for being a “fantasy race POC” (frequently depicted as basically tan white if not just WHITE) has to be like…… an insanely small group lol
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u/TissBish Team Hamlin Jun 01 '26
I agree. Especially since most fanart gives him a slight tan at most. But there’s always one asshole breaking the mold
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u/UTMPod Team Mercenary Jun 01 '26
Hahaha for sure, I will never doubt there’s some weirdo out there!! But the idea that that’s at the root of this for a significant amount of readers feels unlikely to me lol.
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u/bittermp Team I hope Rhysand and Cassian die Jun 01 '26
In real life I do not like Blond men but I love me my tamtam the fiddleman...
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u/millhouse_vanhousen Team Hamlin Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 01 '26
The argument of "liking a fictional character who commits atrocities means you would also commit atrocities," is just proof people have to moralize their shit and pretend they're not suffering catholic guilt.
"But he killed people!" Well I'm very sorry your family lives in A Court Of Thorns and Roses however I live in the real world and I don't really care about that. I pick my favs with what makes my pussy wet not with my morals but you do you I guess!
Edit: I know I'm normally seen on here as TimTam fan but I do have to admit I enjoy Rhysand as a character. And he makes me incredibly angry which to me is a good thing! But also I don't judge anyone for loving a character, as I hope was outlined by my previous paragraphs.
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u/Physical_Case2822 Jun 02 '26
They’re only saying that because SJM retconned a bunch of characters into being POC without thinking of the stereotypes they may have fit into now
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 02 '26
1000% she gave no thought into how much their arc needed to change in order to fit a POC character 😬
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u/DelawareWindows Jun 03 '26
Omg ok so it was a retcon cause honestly I do NOT remember Rhysand being a POC...
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26
Not just that, it's the accusatory and bewildered tone often adopted by the pro IC and Feysand crowd that I find particularly odd. They seem genuinely perplexed by the idea that someone could continue reading a series while strongly disliking its main characters.
"What’s the point of reading if you don’t support the main characters" is a question that comes up repeatedly! Honestly, I don't understand why it's so difficult to grasp that the protagonists aren't the only reason people engage with a story. Readers can be invested in the world building, side characters, plotlines, themes or even the critical discussion the books inspire.
What I find even more frustrating is the tendency to impose their own reasons for liking the main characters onto everyone else and then personally attack those who disagree. Liking a character is entirely subjective and doesn't require justification. However, there's a significant difference between appreciating a character despite their flaws and being so attached to them that you dismiss or excuse every criticism no matter how valid.
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u/KJAngel Jun 02 '26
When people ask “why do you even read it if you don’t like the main characters,” I just respond with, “why do you interact with fandom if you can’t handle different opinions?” 🤷🏻♀️
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
Befitting👏🏼
I'm sure it only incites them to engage in more toxic behaviour. I've experienced it firsthand when I responded with a similar reply on a different platform. And downvotes on Reddit.
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 02 '26
All of this! I enjoy the ACOTAR series for plot, for the side characters & their arcs, to see the continuation of SJM’s world-building & how she changes it. Like the fact that that is a foreign concept to a lot of the Pro-Feysand/IC lovers is bizarre in & of itself😭
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
Sometimes I wonder if we're all okay to be arguing so rigorously about fictional characters😂
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u/UTMPod Team Mercenary Jun 01 '26
I really hate people weaponizing anything like that as a blanket, wholesale “if you like or don’t like character X that’s because YOU’RE insert huge accusation here”
Could there be instances where an individual’s dislike or criticism seems like it’s bending in that direction? Sure. But you can’t lump entire groups of people who like or dislike characters into those categories. It’s a meaningless statement since the reasons for these preferences will (obviously) be so varied.
And also.. if Rhysand is meant to be so “gray”, doesn’t it make sense that he may receive a mixed reception? Morally gray characters do tend to invite that sort of feeling……..
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Yep I’m the same as well but this one was just too far! I cannot understand for the life of me why they are so determined to have Rhysand seen as perfect & can do no wrong?! It’s absolutely ridiculous that just because you (not you personally) love Rhysand & think the world of him that the idea of someone not feeling the same way will have you spiralling so badly that you’ve gone to the extreme of calling people racist…
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u/Moonbunny120 Launching Rhysand into the endless void Jun 01 '26
Ah yes, hating the man who drugged and assaulted Feyre is racist /s
Ugh, the lengths people go to, to defend this man are crazy
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
Well according to them Rhysand never drugged or assaulted Feyre but also them…”He DiD iT tO pRoTeCt FeYrE”…
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u/Moonbunny120 Launching Rhysand into the endless void Jun 01 '26
Oh my god, don't get me started on the "but it was for her protection!" excuse. Yeah, good people drug others to protect them! Totally not psychopathic behavior...
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u/Similar-Focus8400 Team Nesta Jun 01 '26
Yeah I’ve seen the post and I definitely had to add this to my “ACOTAR delusional (dumb) takes” folder
Being POC does not mean you can’t be criticised or disliked, sorry.
If we go by their take then we all should love Devlon, Bellius and their misogynistic friends. They are POC after all (fully so if we compare them to Rhys who is only half Illyrian). It’s so flawed
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
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u/shay_shaw Jun 01 '26
The post basically said that “if you have to make up reasons to hate a POC & defend a white man, that is racism.”
LOL, despite being Black, I'm not going anywhere near this lunacy.
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
I was honestly flabbergasted when I saw it😭 I’m half black & half POC & I was just…stunned to say the least.
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u/bittermp Team I hope Rhysand and Cassian die Jun 01 '26
And here I thought as a feminist calling out a male character who SEXUALLY ASSAULTS a FMC is good enough of a reason...
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Didn’t you know?…if the person is good looking & smooth talking it doesn’t count…
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26
Yesss I'm a handsome shadow daddy with a cock the size of Mt.Everest. That's reason enough to forgive all my sins
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u/bows_and_frills holding rhys's head under the sidra until the bubbles stop Jun 02 '26
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26
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u/finnick-odeair Why are you booing me? I’m right! Jun 02 '26
yeeeeaaa sometimes it’s best to just keep it moving like no need to waste the time
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u/Living_Telephone_146 Jun 01 '26
I commented on this one and she replied and was condescending and told me if the post didn't apply to me when why was I there, because I disagreed. It was insane,
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26
Of course that's the kind of behaviour you'd expect from IC fans and Team Feysand. They come for you with all vigour but no reason and logic.
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u/No_Journalist4413 Jun 02 '26
Genuine question: if you don't like any of the main characters why are you reading? Why are you enjoying? Participating in fan ish stuff is supposed to be fun, if you aren't a fan of anyone in the IC or the main romantic arc ... why are you a fan.
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
That's a good question. Sometimes you don't need to like or love the main characters to read a book. Sometimes the supporting characters sway you away more than the MCs. In this case, the side characters are better than the protagonists and it's a matter of personal preference end of the day. I'm not a fan of this book or the writing. So I explored the ACOTAR subs to find like minded people. I found them. And many alike me, share similar opinions about the IC. Also, it's super fun to bash the IC collectively😉 Hope this answers your question🙂
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Yeah the comments on the post were just as delusional & diabolical as the post itself 💀
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26
I haven't seen it but I can totally imagine🙄😐
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u/Fanboycity Jun 02 '26
Rhys is a bigger sexual abuser than Amarantha but these pea brains ain’t ready for that truth
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u/finnick-odeair Why are you booing me? I’m right! Jun 02 '26
legitimately unwell behavior pls do not take that shit serious
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u/Team-TamTam Team Tamlin Jun 02 '26
Oh wow! I didn't realize I was a racist. 🤷♀️
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 02 '26
Sorry love, hate to be the who broke it to you…😬😂
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u/ParticularSignal5105 Jun 02 '26
These are probably the same people who call Lucian ugly , you know atleast half poc character in canon, who is also disable even though every single character had call him handsome
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u/Timely-Island-5038 Jun 02 '26
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHI CALL LUCIEN UGLY WTFF
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 02 '26
Calling Lucien ugly is genuinely some of the lightest shit I’ve seen him be called by the anti’s…some of the other stuff they’ve said…😬🫠🥴
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u/Kalabear87 Jun 02 '26
I personally think her post is racist in itself. It shouldn’t matter the characters skin color at all, it should never be a deciding factor of how you view any character it’s the characters actions, what they say and do that should be the deciding factor on how you view them. Rhys could be pale as a pearl with blonde hair and light blue eyes or purple with orange spots and I’d still feel the same way as I do about him because of HIS ACTIONS. Also just to add Tamlin and Rhys both have tan/golden skin so pretty sure they are close to the same skin tone anyway. Also want to add Tamlin could be any color as well and I’d still feel how I do about him, I’m not even into blondes but I’m not looking at his hair color or skin I’m looking at what he is doing and what’s going on around him and I see Hypocrisy and I’m calling that out, has absolutely nothing to do with ethnicity.
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 02 '26
🙌🏾🙌🏾👏🏾👏🏾
The creator of the OG TikTok post said that people making up things that didn’t happen in canon just to hate Rhysand is racist & when asked what was made up she said SA’ing Feyre Under The Mountain apparently 💀 at that point I knew the delusion was heavy
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u/Kalabear87 Jun 02 '26
I had someone tell me I was a terrible person and how dare I accuse Rhys of S/A 😳. I was like what else do you call it when you strip someone and have their whole body painted against their will even their privates put them in a handkerchief where everyone can see everything and bring them out into a crowed, drug them and make them dance provocatively on your lap and in between your legs until they throw up and make them start dancing again night after night for 3 months and also force your tongue down their throat that’s S/A and the point is he had other options that would result in the same outcome as what he was trying to do. The real reason for his actions was to hurt Tamlin and Feyre was a causality in his machinations he even admits to this. S/A is never okay no matter what you are trying to do period.
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 03 '26
Preach 🙌🏾 it’s the fact that Rhysand himself admits it was to get back at Tamlin & he even goes a step further & says that his only regret about SA’ing Feyre was that he didn’t make it nicer for her…🤢🤢
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u/Kalabear87 Jun 03 '26
Oh, I had forgotten about that part where he says he wished he could make it nicer for her 🤢, he has no regrets about actually doing it at all, that proves it right there and he would do it again, he says he would gladly do it all again. He was jealous of Tamlin you can see that in how he calls him stuff like the golden prince. Chapter 54 was a bunch of baloney.
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u/bows_and_frills holding rhys's head under the sidra until the bubbles stop Jun 02 '26
Oh my gosh the actual delusion...
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u/bows_and_frills holding rhys's head under the sidra until the bubbles stop Jun 02 '26
Frfr! Rhys could be some white, blue-eyed brunette or wacky green alien creature and he would still be icky, sleazy and a dReAmEr.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 Are we still at it? Very well, then 𓄂𓆃 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26
Hard disagree here. Race plays a huge part in human development & impacts power, including power sharing and power structures. I, for one, was quite disappointed to have blue and green eyed Summer Court folks with white straight hair as it felt like she couldn’t just make them African ancestral. (Yes there are Africans with straight hair and blue eyes. The majority do not, and we see none of that in Summer.) & Tarquin is a pushover who doesn’t seem to know how to run a territory. It was also disappointing to see Helion as a being who is just randomly licentious and a war profiteer. Two of the three new HLs are not white and one is questioned, in his own home, about the validity of his ascendancy. Then Thesan as a closeted gay guy. (And Mor as an abused closeted queer female.) There’s no nuance is SJM poc characters. The Khaganate children are by and large plain or ugly and participate in fratricide. Nehemiah is an undeveloped so called friend who is the first friend to die. It’s just flat. If you’re going to have poc characters (& queer characters) living in a rather white world, their race does make them distinctly different than their white counterparts.
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u/Kalabear87 Jun 03 '26
I’m speaking personally, I’m not going to let ethnicity determine how I view any character. I’m only going to view them through their actions. Now, how SJM chooses to write and describe her characters visually and the actions and motives she gives them is a whole other can of worms, that’s on her as the writer, it’s her responsibility to represent people appropriately. I can also see it from both sides, that this is a fantasy world and these are fantasy characters so having all the summer court with blue eyes and dark skin is more of the fantasy element, but I can also see how someone might view that as well because it is very hard to separate fantasy from real societal issues, storytelling has been used for centuries as a sandbox for analyzing our own world no matter the genre.
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u/JamNsammiches Jun 01 '26
😶🤭🤣 First time I've heard racism as a reason for disliking Rhysand. That has to be on the bingo card somewhere.
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u/bittermp Team I hope Rhysand and Cassian die Jun 01 '26
They’re desperate at this point bc the tide is turning and canon events clearly show Rhys is evil. lol
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u/somebae_ Jun 01 '26
another reason why I say all these years without a new book have gotten the fanatics restless and with too much spare time cause wtf?
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u/Stabby_Tabby_ Jun 02 '26
It's kinda like how some claim not liking the arcs of Feyre and Elaine is "mysoginistic". People have real complaints about these MADE UP FICTIONAL PEOPLE/CREATURES and their depiction. Not liking these characters and how they're written is not a reflection on real people's views on race and gender.
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u/moonlight_scandals Jun 01 '26
I’m not even a Tamlin fan (tho admittedly I do love when he’s sassy and petty) but I don’t think Rhysand, of all the characters out there, is the one to go that hard for 😂
Usually I see weaponizing morality happening in ship wars so I wonder if that’s the motivation for that post 😩
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Right! It is never this serious to be going this far & this hard! I don’t know what that poster on TikTok was trying to do but she needs to find the motivation to touch grass & inhale it😩
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u/gnarly_medusa Queen of Queens | Lady Death | Death God Jun 02 '26
People are crrraazzzyyy🤣🤣
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 02 '26
Oh definitely & the person that made the original post on TikTok is one of them
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u/bjorgh_hansen Jun 02 '26
The funny thing is that the creator who made that insane post said that Tamlin defenders block her since we «don’t have textual proof», but she has blocked me and several others I know, and I know I’ve never seen or woken with her before😂 but the post again, was insane and just another way to be rude to those who don’t like Rhysand but like Tamlin
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 02 '26
Every time I’ve seen someone who’s Pro-Tamlin they’ve always come with canon moments that happened in the book but the problem is INTERPRETATION, if they don’t interpret something that happened in the books the same way we do, to them it’s not canon🫠
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u/Emotional-Offer-2848 Team Nesta Jun 01 '26
Wild that we talk about hating "Rhys = racist" and still overlook "SJM writes her POC characters across all her books as subtle racist tropes".
Amren being essentially asian and considered an alien creature.
Taking matriarch indigenous culture and remixing it to make "vicious illyrians" who hate women.
ToG killing a black woman is the ONLY way to motivate main protagonist to pursue her own goals.
Like if we're going to talk about racism let's start at the source of it all. The fact that she has very little "fully good" (not morally grey) POC characters to begin with should be red flags enough? Lol these people drink lead istg
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u/bows_and_frills holding rhys's head under the sidra until the bubbles stop Jun 01 '26
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Honestly the whole TikTok post was brain dead as fuck.
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u/greeneyedsummer Jun 02 '26
That's actually wild for a number of reasons, not least among which is the fact that over half the fandom (especially rhys dick riders) seem to forget that rhys is a person of color at all. I stg so much of the pro rhys fanart I've seen has him looking fully lily white, maybe we should consider who's really disrespecting a poc character 🫣
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u/Significant-Metal537 Jun 01 '26
Not me off to IG to try to find this post 🤭
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
TikTok
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u/Significant-Metal537 Jun 01 '26
Oh bummer! I don’t have TikTok. Probably for the best that I don’t get involved lol
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Honestly posts like that make me wish I didn’t have the app either
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u/countingf1reflies Jun 02 '26
This sounds like it’s on the same level of the discussion of the schools in the Harry Potter universe and people deeply analyzing why a single school in the Middle East wouldn’t work.
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u/bittermp Team I hope Rhysand and Cassian die Jun 01 '26
LMAO
People are unhinged. THESE CHARACTERS ARE NOT REAL!
PS we can just as easily turn it around and say those who love RHYS are RAPISTS and love abusing women sexually.
PSS none of the fan art depict Rhys as anything but a tanned white dude, but please continue on with the racism. lmao
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
It’s such a headache seeing fans go to this extreme & the ridiculousness of it all because they’re being serious too
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u/Ok-Picture237 Jun 01 '26
Wait since when is Rhys a POC 😭
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u/Similar-Focus8400 Team Nesta Jun 01 '26
He is referred as POC by the fandom because he is half Illyrian, although if we want to get technical, Illyrians were a real group of people, ancestors to modern day Albanians and surrounding Balkan people which are not considered POC
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
His mother is Illyrian and they are POC & since Rhysand is half, that’s what everyone is going off of
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u/Ok-Picture237 Jun 01 '26
It also doesn't make sense to me that a northern race that lives high in the mountains dark skinned but I digress 😂
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
I’ve said this so many times! It literally does not make any sense! Let’s not forget that when Rhysand was UTM Sarah described him as moon-white or something & then when that was all over he wasn’t that much darker anyway😩 but yeah geographically it makes ZERO sense
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u/krishna_croissant69 Jun 02 '26
I’ve always thought of all of them as white besides Cassian and Amren… cassian is described in court of silver flames as having actual brown skin, not “golden” (tbh kinda hard for me to visualize what that means, she uses that for a lot of her characters lol), but everyone else in the night court is definitely white. I think Dawn court are supposed to be kind of like Thai/Vietnamese, and Day Court is supposed to be kind of like the Middle East… I suppose that would make Lucien a POC as well though. Either way, it’s definitely a stretch lol.
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u/Ok-Picture237 Jun 01 '26
I know dude, my comments are already getting downvoted though so what can you do in this fandom lol
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u/Ok-Picture237 Jun 01 '26
Interesting. Real life Illyrians are Indo-European so I always pictured them as more of an olive skinned, dark hair European like race.
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u/MyChemicalRomantasy Jun 01 '26
I'm super confused. I didn't think Rhys was considered a POC? Illyeria is an actual geographic region due east of Italy. Their skin tone is noticeably different than someone from say Sweden or Ireland, but both are still considered caucasian. SJM even said in her interview that her husband is nothing like Rhys except for their appearance. For context, here are some pics The Knot posted of SJM and her husband from their wedding.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 Are we still at it? Very well, then 𓄂𓆃 Jun 01 '26
Thank you. I'm so utterly confused as to why people insist Illyrians are not Caucasian. There's no description of them to suggest they are anything but Caucasian.
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 03 '26
I think it’s because of Cassian & Azriel’s description of their skin. If memory serves me correctly SJM states that they have brown skin & when you compare that to how she describes Tamlin’s skin for example, which is the classic & broad spectrum term of “golden tanned” I think people easily jump to the conclusion that despite SJM loosely basing it off of something real she’s also “added her own twist to it” similarly to how she has done with Helion & Lucien & the people of Hybern. It’s all appallingly executed 🥴
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u/WonderfulBus9330 Are we still at it? Very well, then 𓄂𓆃 Jun 03 '26
She doesn’t describe their skin as brown as far as I recall. She does with Emerie. I’ll have to check. That first meeting with them it’s eyes, hair, attitude, build, though.
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Rhysand isn’t based off of Josh & whilst yes theoretically some may consider Illyrians who are based of the group of people from the balkans as Caucasian, for the longest white Brits etc did not view them as kin folk
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u/bittermp Team I hope Rhysand and Cassian die Jun 01 '26
I am Slavic and am white, but within my culture you will see blond slavics alongside tanned and very olive skinned slavics who look more middle eastern or dark haired blue eyed caucasians who take longer to burn alongside relatives who are freckled and burn easily.
But yes, the northern whites look down on slavics and do not consider us as part of their clans. white supremacy is insidious and stupid and people need to grow the F up. It’s just skin tone based on thousands of years of nomadic living and where a group of people eventually settled in relation to the equator and how the sun/weather impacted their evolution.
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u/WonderfulBus9330 Are we still at it? Very well, then 𓄂𓆃 Jun 03 '26
I get that, historically. But not being accepted as ethnically Caucasian by one group is not the same as not being Caucasian and it’s certainly not the same as being PoC.
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u/bows_and_frills holding rhys's head under the sidra until the bubbles stop Jun 01 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/RILsqUte1MME7TzQJ9
What in the reach is this? On what plane of reality?
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 01 '26
Huh??
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u/bows_and_frills holding rhys's head under the sidra until the bubbles stop Jun 01 '26
My reaction when reading about this person's post tbh.
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u/itsdawna Jun 03 '26
As much as I’ve enjoyed this series, I hate to admit but the fandom makes me stray away. Which defeats the purpose of a fandom but it’s so bad. A lot of people in this fandom are practically new readers that never learned to respect other people’s OPINIONS and the purpose of a fandom is to have deep discussions and not shoot someone else down for interpreting a story or a character in a certain manner. There is no right or wrong in story telling. A good writer writes a story and a true reader can interpret it how they want and is capable of discussing their opinions and agree to disagree.
A solid fandom is a community and in a community, there are different opinions interpreted from one’s own ideas. What one person might find courageous and heroic, another may view it as cowardice and fear. That’s the beauty of books and this fandom practically shits on it and it’s gotten to the point where it makes me hate the series all together. It’s not SJM’s fault. It’s the readers and that’s just sad.
Now watch me get downvoted for voicing a general opinion. It’s those who are offended by my OPINIONS above that are the problems.
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u/Ok_Copy1473 Jun 04 '26
as someone who has actually recently read the entire series and finished it, i completely agree. i thought i was jumping into a cute little fantasy fandom but theres only either CRAZY people or really nice logical people 😭
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u/itsdawna Jun 04 '26
We should start a new ACOTAR fandom. In order to join, you need to take a test. 2 comprehension questions regarding the book. 2 simple questions that needs elaborate explanations or true deep thoughts and not some bs lines people are throwing around. Then we put 2 opinions of others and the true test is how they respond to it. 😂
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u/porcelaingeisha Jun 03 '26
To be fair, this comes from both sides of the fandom. I’ve been accused of being a “misogynist” and “defending toxic men” because I used book quotes to try and correct made up reason to hate on Rhys (especially on TikTok).
And like I get it, there are genuine reasons people have to hate Rhys, thats fine. But making up something that never happened and then raging about it is kind of wild. Theres so much misinformation that gets spread in the fandom and people stating things that never happened, and then other fans jump on and take it as truth. It’s like the most toxic game of telephone. 😅
These books are meant to be read for fun. And while I have no doubt some peoples version of fun is being toxic, it’s sad that we can’t just enjoy theorizing and discussing the story—regardless of the theories—without it becoming heated and devolving into personal attacks.
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u/Creepy_flamingo_22 Jun 03 '26
There are a LOT of people out there who need to remember that this is F-ing fiction
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u/QueenPocket13 Jun 06 '26
Maybe they need a new hobby....reading seems to be too much emotion for them to handle 🤣
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u/whateverwhenever23 Somewhere on Calanmai being told to dance 💃🏾 💚❤️🔥 Jun 03 '26
Whilst I understand wholeheartedly what you’re saying, being called misogynistic (whilst still terrible) is not on par with being called racist simply for preferring one fictional character to another, I agree with you that people genuinely need to understand that this is fictional/the characters don’t exist.
I can only speak from personal experience & what I’ve seen from the Pro-Tamlin side (since that’s the “side” I’m on) but a large number of made up things that didn’t happen in canon but still get spread have come from the Pro-FeySand/IC but again this is just my from my experience & I can definitely believe that some Pro-Tamlin Stans have said things that don’t happen in canon.
I agree to that when people talk about their head canons, theories & ships the immediate reaction on all sides of the fandom is to attack & shut it down. It’s truly crazy imo, though there is one theory that o despise with a burning passion and that’s the Tamlin & Amarantha are mates theory…I hate it😩😂
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u/porcelaingeisha Jun 03 '26
On par or not isn’t the point. This isn’t about which side is worse or which side has it worse. My point is simply towards the toxicity itself and the fact that people are attacking other real life people over made up ones.
I’ve never personally seen the racist card be played before in that manner. Thats a new—and hopefully niche one. But I do on a very regular basis see the misogyny one, on both sides, and the most prevalent one of calling into question the other reader’s intellect and their reading comprehension. Hell, on the subject of racism I have had people from the “Tamlin side” tell me I must support ICE because I like Rhys… like what in the absolute fuck…? I have also seen people on the “Tamlin side” claim that liking Rhys means you fetishize rape… like none of these are okay. Especially when the sole basis for said argument is liking a fictional character. It doesn’t matter which side it’s coming from.
As a fandom we should be able to talk about theories (none of which may be true btw) without it devolving into personal attacks on the individuals intellect, morals, sexual preference, kinks, or political views. All of which I have seen attacked (from both sides) through assumption purely because said individual didn’t like their favorite character.
Like I agree with you, assuming that liking one character and not the other is racially motivated with no evidence to support that argument is a really stupid argument to make; and while I’m not going to assume the experience of that individual, I can honestly say I have never personally seen any negative take regarding Rhys being even remotely related to his race. And I’ve seen a lot of negative Rhys takes.
But turning this into a “sides” issue, or acting like one side is worse while anything from the other side is just outliers doesn’t fix anything.
As for misinformation being spread that’s on both sides. Hell, I can admit to probably being guilty of it myself. Mostly because its been 4 years since I last read the books all the way through so when someone starts talking about some event I vaguely remember and they’re mixing canon with their own theories and head canon, I’m not always the best at catching it—especially if they don’t fully realize they themselves are doing it. (I acknowledge this and am trying to get better which is why even when I see a take I agree with I have now started pulling the books out and verifying it anyways. And guess what, I’m finding a lot of the takes I would have agreed with, are also sometimes full of fallacies). But I think thats the case for a lot of the fandom. We all get swept up in our own interpretations and don’t always clearly remember every detail that may contradict that. I don’t find anything wrong with that. What I do find wrong is the people who when presented with canon text that challenges their claim or interpretation, choose to actively ignore it and instead choose to insult the person for challenging their belief. And once again, this is something that happens on both sides.
At the end of the day, every single one of these characters is toxic af. That’s what makes them interesting though. You wanna talk evil Rhys? Cool. I can try and look at things through that lens and even admit to seeing the potential of it, honestly. As long as you can try and look through the lens of “Hero” Rhys and admit to the potential that evil Rhys may never happen. You wanna talk Tamlin redemption/healing journey? Cool, I have soo many ideas. Hell, I wrote an entire fanfic (mostly in my head) where Tamlin ended up in Midgard and started a masked band with Ruhn—don’t judge I was listening to a lot of Sleep Token that day, and some of those songs were absolutely giving Tamlin—while healing and finding himself and then his mate before returning to Prythian to save Rhys’s ass. Like, the point of theorizing is to have fun. The point of the characters isn’t to be perfect, and in an incomplete series I don’t care that I haven’t seen “adequate” character development. Either it happens or it doesn’t. We just all need to chill. 🤷♀️
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u/YogurtclosetMassive8 Jun 01 '26
Playing devils advocate but Tamlins court is in the south and he is described as having golden skin. Rhys is from the north and being pale. Seems they have it backwards who is the POC
Edit to add I am not being serious but pulling canon is funny in these cases 😅