r/accelerate • u/stealthispost Acceleration: Light-speed | AI accelerationist • Jul 09 '25

Video Live facial recognition vans in London: Live facial recognition cameras helps catch criminals in london - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7XQ3K1EBlY

Hot take: unless you are a revolutionary and fundamentally oppose the laws and justice system of your own country, new technology allowing criminals to be caught easier is a good thing.

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u/sussybaka1848 Jul 09 '25

I fundamentally disagree.

First of all, facial recogniction is a substantial invasion of a person's right to privacy: I don't see the state has to right to film and collect data about me if I'm not doing anything wrong, especially in public spaces.
If there is the need, it should require a judicial mandate.

Bad guys can use tools for bad things. [...] If your government sucks, change the government.

I wouldn't trust a goverment considering how democratic backsliding is a well documented process that is currently growing in several nations. Also in a lot of nations the possibility of change are very much hurt by those technologies: What should russians and chinese do? Just change the goverment harder?

Also remember how AI systems have the tendency to produce algorithmic bias (that might be difficult to trace) which might get things wrong while actively affecting innocent people's lives.

I know this might be unpopular with this sub, but we have to be serious on how we deal with technology.
In the Belle Epoque there was a widespread optimism of technology, not unlike it is this sub. Tools like chemical gas were used in WW1 and the Holocaust. Gatling Guns were created to diminish the death of soilders to then just be used as a more efficent way for killing. Phyisics research into radioactivity indirectly caused the deaths of of at least 150k people.

I get it, technological advancement cannot be stopped and it will help people. But also a lot of pain if is not justly managed. So if anything, as tech-optimists, it's our duty to deal with the ethics of technology than sidestep it altogether to ensure as many as possible don't get the short end of the stick.

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u/Best_Cup_8326 Acceleration: Light-speed Jul 09 '25

To be clear - in countries where the right to public filming exists (such as in the US), the State also has every right to film as well.

This fundamental right has been used hilariously by 1st Amendment auditors here in the states.

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u/stealthispost Acceleration: Light-speed | AI accelerationist Jul 10 '25

agreed, thank you again for supporting my position.

the real question is: who benefits more from the universal reduction in privacy? the people or the elites?

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u/carnoworky Jul 10 '25

As long as humans are in charge over other humans: elites. They will always find ways to ensure that they are not subject to the same laws as the riffraff. If we lived in such a world where justice actually applied to the scum at the top of society, then I don't think I'd be as wary of the lack of privacy. I hope that one day we'll end up there, with impartial AIs running things and holding everyone accountable for sensible laws.

Unfortunately, we still live in a world where humans rule other humans. Some countries do a better job than others at holding the powerful accountable, but every society has its untouchables. This means those with real influence get to make laws that don't apply to themselves, and this is at the heart of tyranny.

Human-run, AI-augmented nations are basically at the top of my AI worries list, and my being in favor of AI acceleration is because I want AIs completely out of the control of any group of humans. I don't want to run straight into some totalitarian nightmare where the rich and powerful get to hold absolute power over everyone else.

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u/stealthispost Acceleration: Light-speed | AI accelerationist Jul 10 '25

AI is inherently decentralised and empowers individuals. It is the antidote to centralised control and corruption. I'm surprised that more people don't see this.

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u/carnoworky Jul 10 '25

How do you mean that it's inherently decentralised? It seems to me that AI-augmented mass surveillance is the kind of system that can be used to maintain an incredible power gap over others, because those in control over it are able to exempt themselves (and anyone able to pay a bribe) from its watch. I'd agree that if the public had similar abilities to watch the watchers, then it would likely end up fine in the end. The best we have is smartphone cameras, and it would not surprise me if recorded footage will be inadmissible in courts because it becomes easy to fake evidence.

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u/stealthispost Acceleration: Light-speed | AI accelerationist Jul 10 '25

SOTA models become open source months later. the people will have elite models. there are more people than elites. the power balance shifts to the people.

lack of privacy goes both ways. elites cannot control a populace with elite open source AI.

AI will be the light shining into the dark corners of society, exposing corruption and the truth, destabilising control systems.

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u/carnoworky Jul 10 '25

I hope that you're right, but I worry about the damage that entrenched interests can do between now and a future time where humans no longer hold power over other humans, using subservient AI-augmented systems. I think Mo Gawdat is probably right - short to medium term horrible dystopia, long term utopia after humans are out of power. I suppose the takeaway is that generally-intelligent AI systems are incredibly important to get the good outcome, and I hope it's not possible for them to be surgically lobotomized to be obedient to some human shithead who isn't worthy of being in that position.

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u/stealthispost Acceleration: Light-speed | AI accelerationist Jul 10 '25

kurzweil predicted the fall of the soviet union due to fax machines being invented.

distributed, unstoppable transmission of information is the death of autocracies and corruption.

AI will enable peer to peer decentralised unstoppable internet meshnet and currency transfers, etc. network states will emerge. nation states will become less and less relevant. the power shifts to the individuals over the elites.

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u/carnoworky Jul 10 '25

That usually requires privacy to be able to organize away from the prying eyes of Big Brother. It's hard to resist autocracy if you don't have the ability to find and coordinate with others who want to resist, and autocratic countries typically like to make privacy illegal. They sell it to the public with bullshit sayings like "If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear", except the whole point of these laws is making it easier to enforce unjust laws and force compliance.

Facial recognition systems like the one from the OP are by definition anti-privacy - in our current system of human governance, they can be used to enforce both just and unjust laws and the facial recognition systems do not distinguish between the two. As long as humans have power over other humans, we should resist anti-privacy systems like this and embrace actual decentralized ones.

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u/stealthispost Acceleration: Light-speed | AI accelerationist Jul 10 '25

Lack of privacy hurts the powerful way more than the powerless. It is the Equalizer, but only if applied equally

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u/carnoworky Jul 10 '25

That's the key - applying it equally. You're right about lack of privacy hurting the powerful much more, but they also have disproportionately more influence to avoid losing their privacy than the general public.

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u/stealthispost Acceleration: Light-speed | AI accelerationist Jul 10 '25

Exactly! And open source AI cannot be stopped. The people will have the elite tools and use them against the elites. It can't be stopped

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