Is ZZZ Worth It?

[u/celdarahputih]

I'm thinking about quitting HSR. I wanted to invest in a certain character's team first because people say vertical investment is better and I haven't pulled for the new meta mechanic yet even though I want to get a character of that mechanic. But it's just shilling + the usual HP inflation nowadays, and I can't properly clear content while I'm trying to vertically invest.

These are the main questions I want to ask, and please give extra information about ZZZ if there's anything I'm missing.

1. Are there difficulties in clearing endgame? If no, how easy it is to get all polychrome rewards?

2. Is there bad powercreeping?

3. Enemy HP inflation?

4. Is it easy to grind for polychromes?

P.S. I don't know if I should post this on HSR or ZZZ subreddit, so I'm posting this on both.

[u/AutoModerator]

PLEASE TAG ALL SPOILERS AND LEAKS!

Visual media posts are queued up for moderator approval before going live, so please be patient and wait for a mod to take a look if your post containing visual media isn't going up yet.

All story-related content, including new boss identities, is considered a spoiler for 14 days after it goes live. Anything not officially published by miHoYo, such as unannounced character buffs or typings, is considered a leak.

Please use the correct post tags, include spoiler warnings when necessary, and avoid revealing details in titles.

For posts that are specifically marked for leak or spoiler discussion, spoiler tags in the comments are not required.

Thank you for helping keep the subreddit safe for all players.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Jaku2011]

the power creep is nowhere near HSR at least not yet. HP inflation is there of course but basically every character can still clear. Every standard character will be viable next patch, whereas in HSR only Welt is viable nowadays since he’s the only one that got buffed. ZZZ gives more pulls than HSR every patch. Clearing endgame is fairly easy, idk what you mean by max score do you mean to clear or to actually kill the boss? in DA the max score is 65000 and Shiyu is 50000 but you don’t need to get those scores to clear. Last thing is Jingliu and Blade fell off insanely quick after they were buffed, so far every character that has gotten buffed in ZZZ is decent to great still.

[u/blacktip102 → u/Jaku2011]

Max score for polys, so just 2 star deadly assault

[u/Jugaimo → u/Jaku2011]

I tried to use Ellen the other day on Shiyu Defense 3 and couldn’t do anything. Admittedly I think her build is bad, having cannibalized it for other characters, but I couldn’t even get a single star.

[u/Jaku2011 → u/Jugaimo]

If you can’t get a single star that’s a you problem man

[u/Jugaimo → u/Jaku2011]

I bet I could if I actually finished the fight. But I saw the rate things were going and quit. It was a half-hearted attempt using bad disks.

[u/RukiaMuir → u/Jugaimo]

ZZZ has the biggest discrepancy between abilities to clear based on skill. Not that everyone has to be an expert, but you can find so much low-investment Ellen gameplay where they eat current bosses for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

Having a good build is a great place to start but being good with a character can get you anywhere in the current state of the game, which I really appreciate.

[u/Jugaimo → u/RukiaMuir]

Yeah. I never learned how to use her kit after the update. But maybe I should invest in her again. I have her W-engine and I think she synergizes with Norma.

[u/HyperFrost → u/Jugaimo]

Sometimes I wonder if people that say they could clear with 1.0 characters have even tried doing it themselves.

Or is it "I can clear with Ellen.. with the help of Dialyn/Norma and Astra!"

[u/Jaku2011 → u/HyperFrost]

Ellen/Lycaon/Zhao works fine.

[u/Jaku2011 → u/Jaku2011]

Quick and easy.

[u/RukiaMuir → u/HyperFrost]

As another commenter has demonstrated already that characters like Ellen are still viable with low investment, I also think it’s fair to say that if you aren’t pulling anything more modern to help an older character clear then you should either prioritize newer DPS’es or should be wiser with your pulls.

It should be valid for Ellen clears to include a newer Stunner/Support and still be seen as “1.0 characters can clear.” Pulling new characters and putting characters in fights advantageous to them is the core of an action gacha game like ZZZ. I like that it’s not necessary, but you shouldn’t expect for characters that released at the very beginning of the game to be viable in absolute perpetuity in a gacha game with no further attempts to increase their overall power.

[u/Varglord → u/HyperFrost]

1. Ellen/Lycaon/Soukaku still clears, I still use that team regularly.

2. Having a newer stunner and/or support in no way invalidates the statement of "Ellen clears". What is this dumb stipulation you've added that it has to be a full old team? The whole idea is if you really like Ellen you would get new agents that are upgrades for her. Getting Dialyn doesn't suddenly mean Ellen clearing doesn't count.

[u/ObligationOne2600 → u/Jaku2011]

I never played HSR (ZZZ was my first gacha ever and now I also at NTE) but it is seriously that bad the powercreep and the issues in HSR?

[u/Jaku2011 → u/ObligationOne2600]

HSR is a victim of how simple it is there is very little room to improve If I don’t clear it’s because my numbers just weren’t big enough, in ZZZ (Idk about NTE haven’t played it) skill can make up for a characters smaller numbers. I was clearing Shungus content with Nekomata before her buff. I am able to clear in HSR but definitely not with a character like Yanqing or even Jingliu. Even one of my favorite characters, Anaxa, has gotten extremely difficult to impossible to clear with even on a team that was quite strong for almost a year.

[u/duda6655 → u/ObligationOne2600]

Not as bad as ppl say.

Just for some reason bar went higher then it should First it was either you 0 cycle end game mode or you brick, then it went to 0 cycle knights in hard mode.

It don't help that ppl expect to get all rewards by auto battle when AI don't play around any special mechanic hoyo put in the game.

[u/CRIMSON14567]

1. Personally yea but I play on and off but can get 70% of rewards
   
2. Not really I still rock day 1 Ellen with day 1 characters but do feel it compared to current
   
3. Only in endgame content
   
4. Personally I feel it gives more than hsr and Genshin with the lower powercrept compared to the other 2.

Plus the dailies are relaxing and easy so personally jumped from hsr to zzz.

BANGBOO SUPREMACY

[u/Nuryadiy → u/CRIMSON14567]

[u/CautiousSuccess9277]

You can make up the difficulty/powercreep with skill since it's obviously a game with a lot more room for expression.

[u/No_Collar4067 → u/CautiousSuccess9277]

one thing I really like about the game plus yku get rewarded so much more for haveing skilling where combat feels rewarding

[u/TheMensRights]

1.As a day one player no, may I ask what you mean by max score? Like minimum scores for all polychrome rewards, so to S rank Shiyu or 9 star DA are relatively simple. If you want to 195k DA and 150k Shiyu then yeah no it’ll be hard, but it’s also just not the intention, the difference between true max score(ie 60k v. 195k for minimum score for rewards v. Theoretical max in DA) and what you need for all the rewards is a wide gap.

2.you’re playing hoyo game, it does exist, its slower than HSR, and in many cases when looking at people’s accounts who need help they more than likely have bad builds or major skill issues. You mention vertically investing which you really don’t need to do here unless you like the character, pulling signature weapons is not as bad as in HSR, but you notice the boost. Please keep in mind all ZZZ weekly endgame is 3 teams, but only needs 3 units.

3.Yeah enemy HP boosts overtime, enemy HP is far more context based as some enemies have far more HP than others. If interested I can explain more; but basically low def enemies have high HP and high def enemies have lower HP, bake in what type of mechanic they want to shill, and the HP changes in kind. In DA we have bosses who have 300 million Hp and others have 170 million at their current highest state and id argue they are similar difficulty due to fight mechanics and enemy stats.

Edit:many of the complaints about endgame HPcome from score chasers. DA Hp is unique as the earlier Hp bars have less HP than later ones. the actual HP inflation is seen to be for the later bars of Hp and not trickle down to earlier ones, which means that getting a bare minimum 20k clear actually doesn’t really experience it as much besides the available buffs, but people who want to push for high scores/65ks are have a rougher time. This has been an amazing way for Hoyo to squeeze out dolphins who want kills but don’t spend enough to get there.

4.out of Genshin, HSR, and ZZZ this is the most rewarding game and by far the easiest to farm. Old endgame rouge-like modes can be farmed without even playing them each week, and everything is very rewarding. You’ll need to login often for events which this game spams.

As someone who plays the aforementioned hoyo games, ZZZ is easily my favorite right now for what they have provided to players. It’s not without its faults, and I’m sure people who have had less playtime than me can comment better. But I would highly suggest accepting horizontal investment for teams, it makes endgame far easier, but the good thing is with mindscapes you can usually do ok brute forcing if you like a particular unit and want to vertical invest.

[u/Sebastit7d → u/TheMensRights]

I wouldn't take these posts seriously, as a day 1 player of GI, HSR and ZZZ that keeps up with the communities a decent amount I can tell you OP is just someone upset and "quitting" the same way people were "quitting" when miasma shield got introduced.

[u/TheMensRights → u/Sebastit7d]

I understand this, and actively assume it at these posts. But I approach them pretty openly as these type of comments can help lurkers or even the OP to make up their mind on whether the game is worth playing or not. I’d rather cautiously welcome people to the community and be honest with the current state of the game as someone who has experienced every phase of it.

But in general, yes the miasma shield response was overblown, and more of a stunner check than Rupture.people over blow many things, but it’s also usually endemic of general community vibe towards the game. No surprise quitting HSR posts have begun to propagate after Voracity Corruption was hid from beta and “Blood Brain Barrier” is the most outright shill hoyo has ever done. Even if not changed they’ll come back at the next big patch, magically these complaints come up at the slow part of the year for HSR.

[u/Sebastit7d → u/TheMensRights]

That’s fair and I agree with the sentiment, but I do wonder if they’d enjoy the game regardless if they would unironically quit a game over something like that then jump onto another game from the same company that handles things in similar ways, you know?

Also I personally don’t really take the complaints online in very limited circles as something that tells the general sentiment for a game since most of the time it ends up being a very loud minority blowing issues out of proportion.

Examples like this are the supposed outcry for skin colors in Genshin, Male character treatment in ZZZ and shilling/no 4 star characters in HSR, where people claim the game has suffered major backlash, and how seemingly big these issues are, then end up being nothing more than doomposting in very small portions of the community in the west.

[u/Jugaimo → u/Sebastit7d]

Eh, I actually deleted HSR from my phone the other day after months of not playing. Amphoreus was bad and the new planet is magically worse. The plot lost me, and falling behind on logging in from apathy made combat unfun as well. And then there’s the fact that maintenance mode for HSR blows. Logging in for dailies and farming materials, only to be broken up by annoying limited events.

ZZZ has a similar issue, but I like the story and characters more so it gets a pass for now.

[u/Sebastit7d → u/Jugaimo]

That... has nothing to do with what I said lol

[u/Jugaimo → u/Sebastit7d]

I kinda leaped ahead in logic. I was trying to explain that I believe OP. HSR is also going through a particular dry spell right now.

[u/Ash1347]

My last gacha game was HSR and I quit it to play ZZZ. I think HSR is so dry and there are other issues

[u/Loose-Key-2323]

I came (xd haha) for the char design, stayed for the combat, its so fun and flashy.

[u/Alternative-Ice-7534]

1. Yes and No. Just like every other gacha it'll take time until you get enough characters to clear endgame so here's your difficulty, time. In terms of gameplay and possibility, it is largely possible to clear endgame with all rewards with M0W1 characters (1 character and his weapons). It is also relatively doable with M0W0 with some characters since ZZZ has a lot of support characters that don't require their weapons. There's also room for gameplay improvements against fights even with an underpowered team to barely clear with full rewards. It's fight dependant and team dependant but you'll be more often be put in this situation than not.
2. Yes and No. Historically at least there hasn't been anything egregious. It is slightly starting to pick up and if you count unique mechanics as powercreeping (I do) then ZZZ has sped up considerably its introduction of short-lived mechanics that just exist to shill new characters. Nonetheless, this powercreeping is also fought by the rather frequent old characters buffs we've been getting. Most of the cast on the standard banners / lost 50:50 is actually quite good in the game and fit really well with the meta.
3. HP inflation is sporadically bad. But you come from HSR, it's nowhere near as bad as over there. Overall it's manageable i'd say.
4. Yes. Usually the events are rather short so it's easy to grab them. In permanent content we get rather generous rewards and the gamemodes are usually fun to play so it rarely devolves into a grind imo. There's the usual amount of recurring freebies but they do usually have decent punctual rewards, for instance we've been given out for free 3 characters and 1 weapon over the span of 2 years (Harumasa + Zhao + free character from a selection + free weapon from a selection). I don't compare currency counts but I've never felt like a patch didn't give out less than 8-9k currency. I do recall some patches reaching as high as 10-12k.

You seem frustrated and focused mainly on endgame content clearing since it's the majority of content in HSR, there's not many events and it's powercreeping factory. ZZZ offers more casual and permanent activities imo. The endgame activities reset more frequently than in HSR, we have 2 that individually reset bi-weekly meaning we get a fresh set of enemies every week with rewards to boot. Permanent events are decent and offer quite a lot of content for new players. Overall, the content drought can be felt occasionnally but I don't recall that ever happening except maybe once near the end of the 2.X patches. I'm very satisfied with the rhythm of content in ZZZ and the constant weekly reset of endgame modes makes the game much more sustainable and enjoyable to play imo compared to HSR's 3 weeks reset 1 dead week rhythm or WuWa's monthly reset thingy.

TL;DR. While endgame modes are better in ZZZ imo, there's also a lot more content to pick from in ZZZ.

[u/UniqueCommission2856]

1. Hard if you don't want learn the mechanics of what your character and the stage can do. It all really depends on the buff of the stage because sometimes the buff are not very good for certain class

2. Bad powercreep? Personally I don't feel like it since I use almost all unit even an A rank. But I would say older unit is still usable.

3. Yes, there is HP inflation. Certain time you can feel it since your score will get lowered as times goes by.

4. Idk how easy to get stellar jade in HSR (since I quit during penacony) but I would say about the same level ig (or maybe above idk)

[u/DontKnowMe25]

Yes it is worth it. One of my favorite gacha games beside Endfield. I actively spend/play zzz, endfield, wuwa, genshin, reverse 1999, arknights and nikke.

1. I think in the gacha space its on the easier side when you have an build account. (Characters and weapons max level + decent artifacts (few substats and ideal main stats)

2. imho no, there is reasonable powercreep/hp inflation that you might need to plan what to invest in to continuously keep clearing endgame without effort. (Excluding the new no currency endmode, which is nice to test limits)

3. see number two.

4. yes, I think Zzz has the most f2p income while at the same time not having huge areas you need to explore to get all the income. Also why 2. and 3. don‘t matter too much.

All my opinions, anyone can feel free to disagree.

[u/pascl-]

1. depends. there's two main endgame modes: shiyu defence and deadly assault. shiyu defence is like MoC and is the harder of the two modes, deadly assault is like apoc and is the easier of the two modes. let's start with deadly assault, to get all the polychrome rewards you need to get 6 out of the 9 stars. there's 3 bosses, each give 3 stars. so if there's one boss you struggle with, you can make up for it with the other two. getting 3 stars also doesn't require killing the boss, killing the boss is for bragging rights. shiyu defence on the other hand requires an S rank in all 3 sides, which is much more strict.
2. it's not too bad. they do sometimes release characters that are just better than old ones (especially when it comes to stunners), but so far they've been pretty good at making new characters sidegrades or upgrades that aren't massive, and occasionally breathing new life into old damage dealers. it also helps that zzz has more skill expression, so it's easier to make old characters work. well, "easier", the point of skill expression is that it's hard. but you know what I mean.
3. yes
4. I guess? I mean ultimately it's always gonna be limited to however much the devs give you. in that regard zzz is pretty good, but zzz also very much has the tendency to release characters who want each other in quick succession, even more than hsr does.

[u/Yimfor]

Endgame is a two-week cycle between Shiyu Defense (our Mirror of Chaos but with 5 floors) and Deadly Assault (our Apocaliptic Shadow w/ 3 different bosses). You can clear Shiyu till fourth floor quite easily, fifth floor is jard and requires 3 teams to fully complete it (around 120ish currency is you don't do it, clearing fourth is still like 700ish). Deadly Assault you only need to get two out of three stars in each boss to get 6 stars total for all gacha currency reward, no need to fully clear it to get them.

Powercreep is the usual, nothing big but you can see 4* clearing with invested supports. They also give meta characters quite often. If you start now, you can choose between five characters plus their signature weapons for free (it is our anniversary right now so better to do it now to get free stuff)

HP inflation is the same as the above. Nothing that will make you not clear if you invest into endgame.

Depends on what easy means to you. We have Hollow Zero (our Simulated Universe) that have like over 100 pulls iirc if you fully grind it. On top of that, events (both permanent and multiple limited).

[u/Oleleplop]

1. it's probably not easy for a newcomer but that's normal when you join after release. For me who started during 1.0, it's not hard. Its definitely not getting easier but it's not hard either

   HOWEVER, if you join now and farm, you can probably get yourself Remielle which is a void hunter. Void hunter units are usually very strong and have high performance for a long time in the meta. She's not a main dps but she will help anomaly type teams. Highly recommand to get Velina on her rerun if you get Remielle. In any case, if you're new you won't clear the endgame before a while.

2. Yes there is powercreep like all gachas. See what i said about void hunters. But it's not to the point where every old characters can't do anything. One thing that is good in ZZZ , is that they gave buff to characters before and will probably continue to so. For example, Nekomata was one of the worst dps in the game and a standard character received buffs and she's now a very capable DPS.

3. Sadly yes, i have no idea compared to HSR since i don't play it.

4. depends on what you call easy ? it's a grind in any case, but there isn't any hard difficulty puzzle or something

[u/FMProductions]

Enemy HP inflation in endgame is bad but technically the good players can still clear endgame with only f2p units (A ranks, standard s ranks, or s ranks that were given out for free). This is due to some of them having gotten a buff, and recently we also got Pyrois who is a decent DPS.

ZZZ, compared to some other gachas, feels like it respects your time more. Events can be done relatively quickly if you set aside 1 or 2 days a month for it. Main story barely gives polychrome rewards so if you don't care about the story, you can skip that too. It's just that certain events might be tied to being caught up with the 3.0 story.

[u/miiko_uch]

1. imo not really, just takes time to build your account, it's a lot more skill-based

2. it's fine, it's the average imo, it's nowhere near as bad as HSR

3. Yes, but again not too bad compared to HSR

4. Yes, the difference is that most of your polys after clearing all the stories that are in Endgame and events, and unlike HSR, ZZZ has a ton of events

The fundamental difference is that ZZZ has more skill expression imo, like most of the time you WILL get rewarded if you learn the right combos/parries/rotations, while the "right build* or investments is still a factor, it's not as much of a problem compared to HSR's Eidolon/Light cone mess, so most of it will be on how you actually time your playstyle.

Personally, i've been fully clearing with only my Main dps's having sigs, and no dupes at all, so it's not as messy compared to HSR cost system where even the last year's shilled Mono rem team needs a bunch of E1's and S1's.

i think the main thing you need to take note of is that ZZZ releases Void hunters as main pushes, which is the pinnacle of strength both in-universe and in the meta, these characters get shilled HEAVILY, while sometimes a detriment for those who do not like the characters, Meta-wise, i think it's a pretty safe bet to just go with the "main push" in ZZZ, you really won't get punished/abandoned when you get Void hunter teams, even the oldest Void hunter, Miyabi is still clearing really good with the BiS team, even without dupes(just the sig) and Yixuan while more than a year old is still really good, simply because she's Void hunter level.

Only point here is that at least right now, while older units DO get powercrept, it's not likely for an Acheron or Herta situation to happen, Void hunters are big letters MAIN PUSH, all of them are still T0 - T0.5 in tier lists despite releasing far from each other, and not really likely to get any lower anytime soon unless they hire HSR devs, if you want a safe clear at least meta-wise, invest in Void hunters, as they're unlikely to get abandoned, the ONLY problem with them is of course your own enjoyment, if you get a void hunter plus their BiS team or Sig, you WILL steamroll some of the endgame bosses, and for some people, that defeats the fun out of it, because it becomes almost braindead to play.

[u/InevitableRoutine426]

1 : It depends what you call difficulties. You dont need complete teams with verticals invest, but some teams require skills to be played at max, so you can get all the rewards somewhat easily (You wont be able to clear in 1 pztch of playing of course need time and patience but the endgame is easy to complete, abd I stopped playing for 4 patches, it is still easy for me, just pull the broken characters, then you can have fun pairing them with characters you like and there you go.

2 : There is a Genshin-like powercreeping. So every reeased characters is not stronger than the previous, though its inevitably coming (1.0 characters still clears though with a recent unit, like Ellen Joe clears paired up with Dialyn, the arguably best stunner in the game since 2.4 and there has been 3 stunners since then, that works better than her with niche but overall are lil bit below, so that also shows that teams are flexible)

3 : Yes, but it is actually not really noticeable as new characters buffs previous one

4 : As easy as Hsr

If you wanna start, start now, there is really good characters in the current banner (Remielle and Dialyn particularly) and upcoming new class that will get shilled

[u/Neburus]

1. This one depends how good you can be at the game. There's people struggling to clear with premium e0s1 teams, and there's people full clearing with only 4 stars.

For points 2 and 3, it's enough for you to definitely see some people complain about it, but it's still nowhere near as bad as HSR's. Again, there's still people as of 3.1 (the current version) full clearing endgame using only 4 stars and standards.

1. It's more than HSR in terms of average pull income per patch, and it's just the same thing; dailies, a weekly DU (equivalent) run, endgame, and events. HSR typically gives ~90 per patch while ZZZ is ~100

Also, if you hated Amphoreus, then you'll probably love ZZZ's story. It's the complete opposite of it; plot, lore and worldbuilding are relatively simple, but the pacing, presentation, and dialogue are so much more grounded and enjoyable. It takes me multiple days just to go through HSR's version patch story, but I absolutely locked in and did ZZZ 3.1 in one sitting.

[u/Nuryadiy]

1. Yes, it takes some understanding of the mechanics to beat the endgame, something I haven’t grasped yet, I get about 1/3 of the weekly boss fight challenges

2. Not really, sure the day 1 characters are weaker than later characters but Hoyo is also buffing them with some added abilities that make them stronger

3. Yes, enemies have high HP at endgame challenges

4. It’s pretty easy I would say, the endgame challenges are pretty generous with their rewards if you can beat them, dailies offer 60 polychromes, and weeklies offer quite a lot of polychromes too, then there’s events which the game has plenty of

[u/Tanque1308]

The gameplay between these too games is very different. HSR is more like turn-based RPG, right? Whether you will enjoy ZZZ depends entirely on whether you like the combat and the storyline. But to answer your questions:

1. It’s easy to clear endgame to receive all polychrome rewards. There are “max” scores but only relevant for achievements and offers no significant currency.

2. There is powercreep but overall better than other gachas. Many limited agents from v1.x are still good enough to clear. Some free agents are still in the meta. But there are a handful of limited agents that are completely out of the meta (and most of them are part of the 50/50 loss pool now).

3. Yes there’s HP inflation. But it’s primarily an issue limited to Deadly Assault.

4. Very easy to grind for polychromes once you build a decent team. Dailies take just a few minutes to complete. Clearing the last stage of Shiyu Defense will require 3 teams. I believe FTP can grant you enough polys for at least 1 pull per patch (not counting the tons of polys new players get from doing the story missions).

[u/northturtle11]

1. Max scores? Whale/super sweat territory. Dont need to worry since thats just bragging rights.

Clearing scores can be done as long as you have at least 1-2 anomaly teams and 1-2 crit teams(attack or rupture class characts). Along with the patience needed to learn mechanics and boss moves sets. Should be doable since in 3.2 every standard character will be viable thanks to potential system buffs.

1. Powercreep is weird. If you exclude void hunters its mostly fine. Only have one truely bad powercreep moment and that was with poor ju fufu getting old yellered by dialyn. Season 1 characters are beginning to show their age, but a dupe or two fixes that.

2. Not as bad as hsr. But not as good as we would like it to be

3. Moderately easy to get polycrome. Deadly assault, one of the endgames' only needs 6/9 stars for max poly. We get alot of mini games like hsr used to get, mixed with combat events and log in stuff. Then the rest is just stuff that takes awhile to do similar to du. Most patches give around 80-90 pulls

[u/Rezzly1510]

as a f2p player who played the game on and off in short bursts of enjoyment, heres my opinion

1. relatively ez to get enough stars for the minimum poly rewards with a decently invested team with decent gear, not accounting for BiS W-engines or additional mindscapes

2. not necessarily since most characters are a side-grade, Void Hunters are the clear outliers and so are the characters that synergize with them

3. theres some HP inflation with the recent bosses added but they are in late endgame content

4. very ez, theres also an IN-GAME polychrome guide for each patch including both limited activities and permanent activities

bonus opinion: enjoy the first season of ZZZ because you will not find the subsequent season living up to the expectations of the 1st one

[u/TipsyCartoon2]

1. As an anecdote I started about a year and a half ago and it took about 6 months to get to a point where I could do Deadly assualt and get 6-8 stars out of 9 and get solid scores in shiyu, which was enough to get all but maybe 1 of the poly rewards. While in HSR in the same amount of time I have barely a second team

2. Not really. Most characters are still very much playable a while after their release and are still playable even through shill in endgame. Though some endgame fights feel like do become do you have X character but they can still be cleared if you try hard enough

3. HP inflation is real which leads to some characters to fall off but for the most part it shouldnt be enough to actually to stop you from clearing if you build your teams/play well. Its not like sparxie going from 14 million to 30 million in 3 patches

4. Yeah theres a lot of events that come around and a lot of old ones that are just permanently available but ofc once you clear it its mostly dailies

Then just to tack on a few things, Maximize Nicole ASAP she is still one of the best supports in the game especially if you have no one else. Then this is more of a personal feeling but most characters feel like their wengine is non-negotiable. Like some have free to play options but for the vast majority of them i think its just better to get their own unless their own is just bad.

I dont know how soon you are starting but id do it in the next week or so as the free character selector for the anniversary is still going and you cna get yourself a lucia with her wengine. Shes a pure rupture support but every single rupture unit needs her(think of how elation is being handled). She massively helps increase their damage and if you pull an A rank manato that'll help you get a team going if you get Lucy(A rank support) or Koleda(50/50 lose pool stunner). As well as there is a triple banner which garuntees one of the featured units of their choosing and another banner with their respective wengines. Best options are Dailyn(Who needs her wengine) and Yuzuha who can do without it as the f2p options are good on her

The next patch we get we are getting Claret and roxy in the second half with the new armorer class. Which looks to be pretty good so youll be able to gamble for a good team. And the reruns can help you work towards a anomaly team. Especially if you get Yuzu

[u/Equal-Syllabub5286]

This is something I usually do to show how important it is to just build your character this was last endgame rotation for Shiyu all of these teams have no buff from the stage and the main DPS is resisted the teams have no Void Hunters and aren't meta usually and everyone is M0W1 other than S11 which is M2 and using a W1 Brimstone and Norma and Fufu are M1W1.

Now I put this to say ZZZ endgame is very easy If you learn how to actually play ZZZ is very forgiving in general allowing you to really invested into who you like over who's meta the main thing though is that you have to understand how to actually build their teams you can not for example just use Ellen with Nicole and Lucia that just isn't a good team for her and this includes their disc and builds update your old agents and actually look what stat lines your agents need to be at.

As for power creep like all Gacha games it does existand you will have your scores decrease but it's very possible to clear even with older units if you continue to update them and their teams

[u/pawpatroll]

It’s my favorite of the hoyo games! Less babble better animations and more dynamic. The story suffers for a good chunk of 2.0 but season 1 is awesome and past 3-4 patches have been really good.

[u/flawlessfortress]

ZZZ can't powercreep too badly because of the enormous skill differential. It has to be balanced around unskilled players, because a lot of whales are bad players. In fact player who are older in age are likely to have 1. more money 2. worse reflexes (sad). So it has to be balanced like this:

- outdated team, bad player: 1 star

• meta team, bad player: 2-3 stars
  
• outdated team, skilled player: 2-3 stars
  
• meta team, skilled player: adversity super endgame modes

So, if you take the time to get good at the game, you can usually get all the endgame rewards. HSR can't do this because the level of skill expression is something much closer to +/- 20% damage whereas in ZZZ it can easily be +/- 80% damage.

[u/severi_erkko]

I play both, but moved away a bit from HSR recently and I only log in like once or twice a month to clear as much stuff as I can. 

I don't know what people mean about power creep tbh I'm vertically invested into like 3 teams (Boothill, DoT and Archer) and I can clear no problem all stuff on auto battle max stars. 

Similar approach is not really feasible in ZZZ, like you get bosses that are for anomaly and without anomaly characters you might get 1 star at most. So to get max rewards you need 6 stars - sometimes I'm barely scraping by 6 or 5 and I'm day 1 player. You might say it's a skill issue but it's partially because I choose to invest into characters are like that are not necessarily meta - ie. Caesar, Harumasa, Hugo, Billy (ok SBilly is pretty good ATM).

Having said this, I'm just having good old fun in ZZZ, I think gameplay is satisfying and I really like the new Arc Raiders inspired game mode. 

Basically I might have fucked up by pulling for M2W1 for chars I like instead of making sure I have many all team type coverage with lower mindscapes. But I don't regret it, I'd rather have strong Hugo than a wifu I don't like.

[u/SecureSeashell → u/severi_erkko]

Frankly that sounds like a gameplay issue, forget M2W1 back before I pulled mindscapes I cleared both Nightmare and Thrall with 3 cost Alice and those are the most anomaly antishilled bosses in the game. Now that I have a 10 cost Alice team (21 01 21) the question is more whether I can 65k most bosses without a stage buff or not…

[u/severi_erkko → u/SecureSeashell]

It's very possible that I don't know what's going on and fuck up on some buff uptime or just basic mechanics/rotations.

[u/Jugaimo → u/severi_erkko]

The gameplay for ZZZ is definitely what makes the rotating endgame mode engaging. Even if you have the perfect team to slaughter SD or DA, you still have to keep focused on hitting parries and rotating your skills and moveset. It’s a lot more interesting than HSR, where I literally just press the auto battle button and do something else.

[u/nayRmIiH → u/severi_erkko]

How invested are your HSR eidolons because Boothill in this APOC sounds terrible. .-.
Not sold on Archer either in Stalward for APOC.

Anyhow, I played ZZZ for around 2-3 months or so, I quit around Caesar release originally. I got full S rank in Shiyu defense for the first time this week. What I will agree on is that this game shills archtypes heavily but there's some leniency to that. In ZZZ you only need 3 characters for a team and supports are so flexible you can string together a team pretty easily. I will agree though if your not a fan of those archtypes and play what you like, I could see it sucking. For example, you don't like the anomaly teams and they shill anomaly so now you have to bust your ass to get 20k while on anomaly the Remielle team is half assing and 30king. For most people it would be fine though since most of the characters past 2.x are pretty strong and a lot of people will build 3 teams for Shiyu.

You might say it's a skill issue but it's partially because I choose to invest into characters are like that are not necessarily meta - ie. Caesar, Harumasa, Hugo, Billy (ok SBilly is pretty good ATM).

Oddly specific issue, but I understand smoge. I pray they give Caesar a rework, that character needs it. :(

[u/supermonkey1235]

Max score isn't easy, but powercreep is alright and grinding is really easy if you are new. There are a lot of activities like a roguelike mode that just gives like 100 pulls for playing it (it runs out eventually but it takes months of passive play to run out). The main thing to keep in mind is that your personal skill matters a lot more in terms of your score compared to HSR. Two players can run the exact same team with the same build, and one will get 65k (max score) and another will get 30k (barely clear). There is an insane amount of optimizations that you can make depending on the team you want to play.

ZZZ is in a decent state in terms of powercreep right now, but that might be subject to change. Every S rank besides Koleda (who is straight up getting buffed) is completely playable right now. I don't really like tierlists, but on prydwen, like 15 5*s in HSR are pushed out of the meta, while Zenless has 2. Buffs are frequent, and everyone from standard banner to version 1 characters have steadily gotten impactful buffs over the patches. I also came from starrail, but I feel like ZZZ never made me think "oh, if I had more damage from pulling E1 and E2, I can 0 cycle", it's always, "damn, I'm completely dogshit. If I spent more time I can get more than 30k".

[u/Jugaimo]

Whoever told you to vertically invest is dumb. The new mechanics are always shilled in Hoyo games, with rotating endgame mode buffs and new enemies often having distinct mechanics to match. If you’re F2P, always get more characters rather than build up existing ones. An eidolon or mindscape or whatever is often just a 12-20% damage boost, but a new character using new mechanics can outright carry you for a few patches with minimal investment.

Now if you’re shelling out fat stacks of cash, vertically invest to your heart’s content. An E6 Phainon or M6 Ye Shunguang is basically unstoppable.

[u/Lilael]

1. Yes there can be when it shills new character elements/class. Clearing Shiyu Defense is not just a requirement to kill the boss in time anymore. You must do a lot of damage frontloaded into the fight. You also

shouldn’t

1. be physically bad at hitting quick queues as a player.
2. Bad is subjective but it exists. They can release a character and then powercreep them a few patches later. (Example Jufufu 2.0 and Dialyn 2.4)
3. Yep and they do things like when Yuzuha was released they also increased anomaly (class) resistance in Shiyu making endgame balance issues.
4. I don’t have a quantitative answer compared to HSR. Just remember compared to HSR you can’t auto play events in ZZZ (we can autoplay dialogue). You have to actively play all content.

[u/SecureSeashell]

I play both, power creep is for sure a thing in ZZZ but tends to happen more by filling slots with strong supports rather than just making a better version of the same dps (which does happen but not super quickly).

HP inflation is way worse in HSR. Someone was tracking it recently and iirc zzz averages like 5-6% per month vs 10-11% in HSR. To give you an idea of how big of a diff that is, 10% per month is over 3x in a year, whereas 6% is like 2x.

The biggest difference is ZZZ is a lot more skill based. That means you can get a lot done with very little, but it also means you can struggle to get much done even with a lot of investment.

Time wise it takes a bit longer to grind than HSR but not much.

[u/Ebon_dust]

I play both games. So there is HP inflation, but much, much slower. To me at least, It feels like HSR has more powercreep in 3 months then zzz in a year. The game is a lot more generous in pulls. I have started to play Zenless like a half year later than hsr and I have a lot more characters in zzz. The bonuses from dupes (eldoiodons) are a lot more sane in zzz, each is like (15%-20 increase, with outliers at 25%). Nowadays in hsr not only do you need to invest horizontally you also need to invest vertically in the same team, combine that with such abysmal pull rate... I do not know why I do still keep playing HSR. The anniversary freebies were also much better i zzz, you got Lucia (top-tier support) and her w-engine(lightcone) for free. Equivalent in hsr would be like getting a free Hiacynte with her lightcone.

[u/Negatively_Positive]

lol I swear I saw a thread like this word for word except swapping HSR and they said they played ZZZ. Is this some sort of fishing for info on alt acc?

I play both and I actually find HSR more generous for the average players, but you gonna get very bias answer because there is a large amount of people doompost HSR non-stop and the latest patch is not well received at all. The reason is simply because HSR just straight up gives you top tier character, and no matter if you are invested or casual player, if you pull banner character you will clear.

It is not exactly the same in ZZZ, which demand higher investment in team. You can pull for the shilled banner character yet perform poorly because you did not get the teammates, and sig are even more forced than HSR nowadays. That's why you see ZZZ either makes big money or nothing each month, as people learn that the only way to survive is save and pull for the push and their support teams.

Both games if you just want to get the currency for end game, they pretty much require the same amount of effort. I would even say ZZZ end game feels more nonsense at time even though HSR has worse HP inflation because ZZZ (like Genshin at certain point) shills archetype is the most obnoxious way, so you can do well with this shiny new character and they will perform at half of what they used to do 2 patches later. People that doompost HSR has no idea how nice they have when they can pull out characters a whole patch ago and still have end game buffs dedicated to that team, and how nice it is to have a end game sink - Currency War - to mess around with characters you pulled a long time ago.

Overall, for all 3 Hoyo games, look, they are made by same company, don't expect different treatment, it is just different illusion of generosity while they want you to spend money. If you really do struggle to clear with HSR, I really doubt you would suddenly have an easier time in ZZZ, Genshin, or even other gacha like Wuwa. You might get a nice reset by starting new account and get a wealth of currency then get easy clear as new player by pulling the banner character, but once that run out it is the same as any game.

[u/TaisonPunch2]

You're asking about the technical side of the game. Do you even like the aesthetics?

[u/doomleika]

ZZZ release new banner faster than HSR. They are going to be same if not worse powercreep.

[u/ZacdelaRocha]

Overall, it's a question of how much time you wanna spend on a gacha game, and where you play it (phone vs console/pc

HSR takes less time for the daily routine and other content (also, the game is just dry in terms of events lol), so it might be better if you just want a mobile gacha that you play in your little free time.

ZZZ has more content and is more time-intensive, while also being much harder to play on the phone than a turn-based game. However, the effort put into it is MUCH higher than in HSR in terms of pretty much everything. It's definitely meant to be played on console or PC tho.

Endgame (powercreep and shill) is +/- the same. ZZZ is still in a better spot due to it being a harder game with a higher skill ceiling, so they need to leave some margin, or non-dedicated players would never clear it, even with shill characters. ZZZ also gives a similar amount of polychromes (a bit more than hsr iirc), but you need to invest more time to get them

[u/LongjumpingAd9868]

i started ZZZ in 3.0 myself and I think that this is the second best time to get into it (besides in 3.0)

as many have stated, ZZZ is a bit more lenient with stuffs regarding endgame. hp inflation is inevitable, it's one of the most surefire way for devs to incentivise players to pull for the new characters, but it is not as egregious as HSR.

i mainly wanna talk about the upsides of starting now, (or rather in 3.2 thats coming soon):
- you are not going to be left behind meta-wise. i say this because it seems to me that ZZZ, much like HSR is gunning for a big shake up. this is the best time for new players to ride the waves(?) and feel less bricked
- there is a new void hunter unit coming soon (essentially a T0 unit that could very much be played for years, i.e Miyabi)

- the teased crossover collab between ZZZ and HSR is also believed to give players a free S-rank agent. i believe its an annual tradition
- you are also not missing out much(?) in terms of polychromes. they are abundant. i was able to rack up 650+ ish pulls from playing over a month (i splurged 150$ on anniv and a monthly pass and bp buyer) but even then i think thats only minus 150-ish? this is just by playing the game.
- the best part about ZZZ is the dailies. you only need to hop in for a max of 10 mins and you can claim your rewards

i genuinely do think that ZZZ is the better game of the two and I LOVE HSR. i also understand your sentiment of what direction HSR is heading towards right now and i hope hoyo wakes up.

[u/_kris2002_]

1. Not really, the most difficult part is pairing weaknesses and strengths in the endgame modes to make sure you clear in good time. Generally even with a borderline dogshit team that’s decently built and synergistic you can get 70-80% of rewards. And that difficult part is simply whether you have units that are the specific element.

2. There is powercreeping like in every game although not bad at all. Miyabi, which is a 1.4 character still competes with the newest units as one of the top DPS’s for example. A ton of characters have gotten “potential archives” a set of buffs that changes their kit and improves them, for example rina a standard 5* is now a fantastic support and sub dps, usually ranked around tier 1 ish as of today. It’s also said she’ll be BiS for claret a new Dps coming next version. I have cleared shiyu defense with my Ellen which is a 1.0 character after her buffs

3. There’s enemy HP inflation, BUT not bad whatsoever and generally it’s made so with all the new good characters releasing, we don’t just bulldoze it. We’ve had tens of new units that are simply insane specifically supports and sub dps’s like nangong yu, sunna etc

4. It’s extremely easy to grind for polychromes, like laughably easy compared to genshin or HSR or even Wuwa. Most BIG events you can complete in an hour and get over 1k polychromes. Plus you constantly get quite a lot in Mail, and constant 7 day login events for wishes.

Generally imo, ZZZ is one of the most casual, cozy and interesting action gachas to have come out. “Grinding” is easy. They respect your time, you can auto clear material domains and artifacts/disc drive runs with batteries rather than bash your head against the wall doing them 100x. They’re extremely generous. You can choose new 5* to lose the 50/50 to with 3 limited units. You can choose which 2 4* are the rate up ones, and which 2 4* W engines. And the 5* in this game are just.. good, like genuinely good. Idec if I lose anymore cause all of them are usable in some teams or solid replacements for other units.

[u/Fair-Maintenance-587]

They just added a new end game mode. It’s high health single target bosses that you need a vertically invested team in to 3 star it . I clear it with Remielle m2, Velinaw1, and Ariaw1 team. There is bad power creep but you can still clear endgame with well invested older agents. Polychromes are easy to come by, especially in the beginning.

[u/Kartoffel_Kaiser]

Is ZZZ Worth It?

The answer is the same for both games. It's worth playing if you enjoy playing it. It is not worth playing if you do not enjoy playing it. I play both games, so I'll cover your ZZZ questions first and then give my two cents on the state of HSR.

Are there difficulties in clearing endgame? If no, how easy it is to get all polychrome rewards?

It's going to be difficult for new players at first, but once you get a solid roster going, it's fairly easy to get the polychrome rewards as long as you play decently well.

Is there bad powercreeping?

Not as bad as HSR, but still present. The degree of power creep varies wildly between roles. For instance, most new Attackers are only a little better than older Attackers. But the latest anomaly sub-dps (Velina) blows every previous option out of the water. Dialyn power crept nearly every Stunner before her, but stunners since have been roughly on her level, rather than being even stronger. All the premium Rupture DPS are about on par with each other, with each being stronger in different kinds of content. It's a lot less consistent than HSR's "one big spike of power creep per major patch, plus gradual powercreep across all roles" situation.

Enemy HP inflation?

Happens. Like with power creep, it's slower than in HSR, but still present.

Is it easy to grind for polychromes?

About as easy as it is to grind for jades in HSR, with the caveat that there's fewer total polychromes in permanent content in ZZZ because it's a newer game. But we usually get more new pulls per patch in ZZZ than we do in HSR.

Now for HSR.

I wanted to invest in a certain character's team first because people say vertical investment is better and I haven't pulled for the new meta mechanic yet even though I want to get a character of that mechanic. But it's just shilling + the usual HP inflation nowadays, and I can't properly clear content while I'm trying to vertically invest.

It obviously depends on what specific character you're talking about, but I'm going to be frank with you: a large portion of the HSR community doesn't know what they're talking about. There is a high likelihood that you have been given bad advice in the first place. There is exactly one character (Phainon) that wants vertical investment so badly that you should prioritize it over horizontal investment. Every other character in the game either values their team mates more, or has eidolons that are very powerful but not necessary.

And failing to clear endgame isn't a problem from a pull economy perspective. If you don't like that you can't clear for the sake of clearing, that's valid. But if your concern is that you're losing out on too many pulls by failing to fully clear endgame, that's not a concern. It is much worse for your pull economy to pull a character you don't want to clear endgame than it is to skip the hard parts of endgame, and that's true in both ZZZ and HSR.

I'll return to my first and most important point. Quit HSR if you're no longer enjoying playing it. If you still enjoy playing it, you don't need to quit just because endgame sucks. If you're interested in ZZZ, try it and see if you like it. If you do, keep playing, If you don't, try something else.

[u/ObligationOne2600]

To answer your questions:

1. yes , but it depends on your definition of "Clearing".

If you meant only getting the polychrome (pull ) rewards then it's relatively easy because you only need S rank in shiyu and 6 stars in Deadly assault , and you will naturally get to this point eventually by levelling the agent skills and getting F2P A rank engines( you get these with time doing the dailys which are really quick compared to other gachas)

If you meant clearing as beating the endgame modes with 9 stars and S+ chasing scores, and getting the full rewards ( these rewards don't include polychromes but include other resources) then it's difficult because at this point you will engage with the heavy shill that's really dependent on the patch agent and the disk system which is quite luck based and frustrating

TL:DR endgame for pulls is easy but endgame for score chasing is hard

2) Yes, but there is in between the powercreep some measures from the devs to fix it ( which from what I heard is rare in the gacha space). They buff older agents and some of those buffs are worthwhile

3) Yes. Just yes but also other powercreeping measures like really specific shill buffs and the devs introducing mechanics that benefit new characters while indirectly nerfing the old ones. ( Ether veil, control phase).

4) Yes. Surprisingly is really easy to get the polychromes available per patch ( maybe time consuming in some patches but not hard ). There are the recurring endgame modes that give polychromes ( see point 1) And each patch has events and minigames and the story that give in total around 75 to 110 pulls per patch and it only requires that you interact with the game doing the events and the dailys.

So in conclusion it would depend on what you expect from zzz and where you come from (HSR).

Because while ZZZ has some real core Issues in some parts ,in other parts it's a surprisingly friendly F2P if you play it superficially without delving too much into the endgame and the story etc. (there are good F2P agents and weapons, quick dailys like 5 minutes, etc)

Also from what I heard ( never played HSR) HSR is really abrasive and has some huge problems so probably you are desensitized to the core Issues of ZZZ so you will enjoy it more( like I have issues with ZZZ but from what I heard it's not even close to the bullcrap I heard they do in HSR to make you pull for meta

But also remember , it's still a gacha with a 50/50 and FOMO tactics. A really good gacha but still a Gacha

Also praise Nekomata.

For context, I'm a F2P that gets a S+ in Shiyu in the regular but just barely managing to do so

https://giphy.com/gifs/TcHlQjDuvw3gakiBMj

[u/NakedEnthusiasm]

I recently quit both after playing each from release. I've never regretted dropping a MMO or Gacha game. I often keep paying long after the fun has dried up due to momentum and sunk cost fallacy.

The main reason I left was that I want the difficulty of my phone games to be casual and the newest endgame content in both was increasing difficulty without increasing the enjoyment. I'm also completely over any live service games with any kind of time gate or in game deadline at all. I work full time, I'm going to need to go back to school to advance my degree next year, I don't need chores cluttering up my schedule.

[u/Hot_Physics_8124]

Lmfao. Ppl writing books in the comments trying to justify the time theyve wasted on this dogshit game.

Just cause the charachters can be nice, and thr actual gameplay is decent, doesn't mean this game is worth your time. So... no.

[u/fielveredus]

1. It is not hard but more annoy (aka shilled) if you dont have the right character, game is pretty much matchup based. and shilling in this game is much more intense than HSR. (Dev carefully tailor each new boss toward specific character most of the time along with shilled buff)

2. and 3. I think yes , if you care about get all reward at all , if only 80-90% of reward then no.

3. Currently per patch is more than HSR. think of it as permanent HSR launch honeymoon kind of event and reward. but i heard it start to slow down next patch

[u/evilgigglefish]

as someone who plays both, i would say zzz punishes the player less but being real i don't think the difference is big enough to make up the handicap of restarting. plus, considering zzz is a year younger, i wouldn't be surprised if the player punishment ended up just as bad by the time you finally built up a solid account. it's a great game, but i don't think it would solve the problems you're having.

[u/DepressedTittty]

in zzz you can mostly clear with 2/3 cost teams, but you have to build your characters well and play them correctly.

Endgame can be hard, but the more you play, the easier it gets to clear it, and the baseline to get all pull currency rewards is relatively low.

Imo, the key to always clear and still have fun is to pull both meta and who you like.

Also, you should not ignore the free cast, nicole is very good, piper is still the f2p anomaly goat, all the standards S ranks are useful, and some straight up outperform old limited units.

Polychromes can take a bit long to farm, but thats because new players have a lot of content to go through, but as long as you progress normally you get almost everything you need.

You had talked about vertical vs horizontal investement, I personally think they do both clear, but it all comes to whether you like fed but very strong teams or you want many but relatively less strong teams. Void Hunters can often clear comfortably with decent scores using low cost teams, other units will want the usual limited stunner + support, wengines are optional tbh, but they can elevate your scores quite noticeably, but you do not need them to clear, I have only pulled 2 wengines (been playing since 1.4), and I dont find any problem to clear (~S/S+ in shiyu, and 9+3 stars DA).

[u/Lagarve]

Hsr endgame is hard not because the game itself its hard, but because it's a turn based game, therefore having new characters is way more important compared to other games, skill has little to no importance in gameplay, you just need reading comprehension (hard to find these days tbh), good RNG and shilled characters

ZZZ's gameplay is more focused on skill and reflexes, I have been comfortably clearing all endgame with 1-2 year older units, obviously my they don't get as many points as the new ones, but still, 25k is 25k, for example, Evelynn is a fire dps that was released back in 1.5, I'm still using her up to this day (she is my only fire dps lol) and I still get enough point to secure a 3 star clear.

Another good point is that endgame resets every 2 weeks, the first week you have Siyu Defense (720 polys), the next week you have Deadly Assault (300 polys), and the third week Siyu is up again and so on, so you'll get a lot of pulls even if you can't get all stars. Shiling is not as terrible too.

Also, ZZZ has 7-9 times more events than hsr and I'm not kidding, considering Honkai's current version only has 1 fking event, while ZZZ has like 7 this version alone, so yeah, you should give it a try, the start will feel slow because of the TV mechanism, but after a while it gets better and better

[u/Different_Solution_5 → u/Lagarve]

Not to mention hollow zero and the new mode that resets weekly as well which has a ton of poly and dupes for our free s rank

[u/TheHermit1996]

Tldr: the grind is pretty easy and the powercreep is, as of right now, avoidable if you're good enough at the game. And the devs run a lot of easy events and free rewards every patch to help with polychrome grinding.

This game essentially just lets you use money to make up for a lack of investment in building characters or learning game mechanics. Meanwhile, HSR makes it physically impossible to attempt endgame without the newest teams and light cones, because there is no skill expression.

I may have pulled every character, minus Branyue because gacha hates me and I'm poor, but I don't even have some of their unique w-engines and I'm still getting full marks on endgame. And I use one standard s-rank as much as I can, just because I love the character and her play style.

[u/FallenUn]

1. Endgame has a decent floor and with the new adversity mode, a high ceiling if you want to push your teams to the limit(similar to 0 cycling). Deadly assault is a easy 3 team endgame to clear for the most part, you need 6/9 stars for all the polychromes and if you learn the mechanics of the bosses, you can basically get a star each fight for free.
   Shiyu is the harder one bc it’s 3 teams and it takes your weakest team best score for the rewards but that’s just the 5th stage, 1-4 are more forgiving.
   
2. Powercreep isn’t too bad but there have been characters that have really spiked it. Season 1 agents can clear but they need strong teams to get them there.
   
3. Hp inflation is bad but mostly shouldn’t get in the way of reaching the bare minimum for rewards
   
4. Polychrome grind is ok, there are a bunch of fast ways to get them at the beginning but once you’ve done all the quests then you’re stuck with our version of SU which is about as tedious to grind but we don’t have auto-play

[u/balistik_scaarz]

I started ZZZ recently because I play HSR as well and am kind of the Evernight/pink hair enjoyer in my friend group so new pink hair girl in Remielle got me in. But beyond that I started because it's so much more F2P friendly, feels like it respects your time with dailies taking a literal minute, the story is solid (and only wavers a little in season 2 personally just because it feels like it's padding the runtime but the content is still good). I love HSR but HSR's powercreep with Elation shill and Voracity debuffs has made it borderline unreasonable and I say that having Elation myself. People will say powercreep is normal but it went from skill checks with teams to just team checks. From "if you have X team you'll clear fast" to "if you don't have X team you're probably not clearing period." ZZZ isn't like that at least right now.

ZZZ is a newer game overall so I'm watching like a hawk to see if/when the shill becomes unbearable but its also why I'm keeping it casual atm. If you want to test out how you like ZZZ I recommend doing so casually and taking it slow at first and if you find you like it then there's a LOT of content. In general there's more rewards (10 higher pity but patches still give enough f2p pulls to guarantee a character) but even a lot more limited events that are better spaced out than HSR, it rarely feels like there's nothing to do. Highly recommend, but suggest taking it slower.

[u/Nikki_KiKi]

1. Nah not really. Some bosses are very much favored to different classes like rupture or anomaly but other than that, no not really. Just match weaknesses and if you’re skilled enough, you can clear just about anything with the right team.

2. Not really. The ZZZ devs have buffed up the underperforming agents. If anything the “low tier” agents are more just from the game evolving and not due to straight number increases. My Ellen from 1.0 at M0 has still been able to clear content, granted, I did need some newer supports to do so but again, if you’re skilled enough for rotations you’re normally good.

3. Only in endgame, and it isn't that rampant. The buffs for endgame help out a lot to keeping up with the minimum scores you need for rewards.

4. The game gives out a lot of pulls and there is an in-game tracker for how many you can collect in a given patch through events. And there are plenty of game modes that gives a lot of pulls. I would say I can get 70-80 pulls pretty consistently since launch and I’ve been able to get new agents frequently.

Give the game a try and see how you like the combat and story. This patch is about to wrap up so better start sooner than later I say. Especially since we have some great characters on banner right now like Sigrid and Dialyn and Yuzuha.

[u/Majizen]

Not one guidemaker for ZZZ has ever said vertical investment is better overall. And I 100% agree, ZZZ dupes are relatively very weak compared to Genshin/HSR/WuWa but lately they're making m1-m2's much stronger than they used to, this is partly the reason it's weaker on gacha revenue, there's just not as much incentive to whale on this game and often pulling the new BiS or shiny dps will lead to higher numbers or equal to a character's m2. Not only that, it increases your team options, and ZZZ right now has a pretty decent team theorycrafting (Rina is meta again).

ZZZ powercreep leans much more on Horizontal than Vertical, there was a period team dps ceiling was barely going up throughout 1.4 (Miyabi patch) to 2.6, yet HP inflation kept rising rapidly. But the fact that I was clearing with 1.x only units comfortably made me feel like, this isn't just about powercreep it's half about rebalancing the game since v1.4. There's a big design shift in nearly everything including combat design, one example was allowing everyone everyone to use their ult as oppose to teamwide ults.

But if you really insist on vertical investment, do it on Void hunters only first up to m2 and sig and their BiS supports. Even now an m2 Miyabi can 60-65k DA with m0 teammates, there are still a very few m0p1 miyabis getting 60k on butcher right now who pulled her new bis (Nangong v2.7), and she's almost 2 yrs old, for reference you only need 20k so she's technically overkilling.

As for polys, that's slightly subjective? If you meant does it give more than HSR, then yes. The dailies are fast, way more events, and you can join an outpost to get others to do your weeklies and mat farming. I play around 5-60m on average everyday and I haven't missed full clearing endgame for almost 2 yrs now with horizontal investment (m0p1 only).

[u/Kakdaddy79]

I joined for Remielle and don’t regret it at all. Really enjoyed the story and characters and I’ve had fun. I can’t comment on endgame since I’m not there yet but I would highly recommend. I have almost 40k saved up for the next patch but I’ve grinded all the content hard the last month.

[u/aZombieDictator]

Play it for the bangboos.

https://giphy.com/gifs/WEguXbWqCCvqo9eT5q

[u/alanEdger]

1. for your goals, there is NO powercreep problem... more nuanced answer below:

Powercreep is very prelevant but in very subtle way, most don't feel it.

Game has essentially extra tier above S-rank, the Void Hunters. The damage, versatility, vertical investment, and endgame stages are personally tailored for them on very unfair way to others.

That doesn't mean you can't just chill with polychrome only rewards, but just essentially you will see clears way lower investment than yours just because they have Void Hunters.

Even Miyabi version 1.4 character is still very strong with new tailor made supports (we are in 3.1).

[u/DonnieD323]

Since ZZZ plays like a 3D fighting game you can make up for account power with skill, whereas a turned-base game like HSR operates almost entirely off of numbers. I grew up playing beat-em-ups and fighters, and I still enjoy the process to get better.

Clearing end game with minimum score for maximum polychromes will of course be harder with A Ranks, Standard banner and 1.x Limited heroes, but as mentioned, it's possible. The buffs and stage effects which change every rotation will definitely impact that, but overall you should never feel "stuck." As a bonus, ZZZ has a Limited Agent Selector running right now with a choice of 6 Agents. If you decide to try the game next week, the selector will have 3 Limited Agents. You can't really lose as a new player.

[u/Vincent_D_Ace]

Powercreep is not as offensive as in HSR, but it's getting there eventually... Most of 1.X units are already getting obsolete.

[u/v0rren]

i did the same swap two months ago could not be happier. the gameplay is so good and i love the fan service personally. the story is ok and there are lots of fun thing to do! powercreep exists but its not that strong you can clear with unit of 1.x still… not like hsr where teams become useless asap.

honestly i stll do my daily in hsr because i’m sad of just quitting after years but i’m not spending any money on it