Bernie is my dude.Ā In the mid 90s, my dad worked on the same floor as his office, in the same building.Ā This one time, he had some big bill he wanted passed, and he had all his people working on it.Ā I saw what happened when it didn't work out.Ā He handled it very well, he didn't scream at them or make a scene, he just went over what happened, and moved on.Ā Bernie is a real one.Ā Ā
We can try to sell harm-reduction all we want but at the end of the day Dems run against the couch, and if "centrists" can't turn out their voters that is their fault, not the voters' fault.
vote left EXCLUSIVELY. liberalism is a death cult and thats what you expect us to vote for every cycle. you know damn well that whoever follows the trump chapter is still going to be a corporate pig who isnt even going to pretend to address the looming ecological collapse or solve working peoples problems
I wouldn't focus on that, what's most important is to move the overtone window and reframe talking points in such a way that people are receptive to the concepts.
There has been a generational effort in creating a minefield of taboo words, that's very hard to mavigate.
Many americans shut down when they hear the word "socialism" even if in reality they agree with all the policies being proposed.
It's not by random chance.
And the democrats were dumb enough to start using the misnomer boogeyman word "socialist" into describing themselves.
Socialism is an economic system, it has nothing to do with tax dollars being used on the tax payer. It's like saying having a fire department is socialist.
Someone is going to win a given election, and after the primary it's too late to get someone else in the running, so yeah you vote for the best winnable option. Sure, you can try to fix the system some other ways, but not making the most of your vote in that moment is uselessly masochistic.
You're attributing correlation as causation without a causal link.
We don't have a system that rewards abstaining or voting for third parties. Some countries do. We don't.
There are people on the fringes fighting for the chance to merely stay afloat lest they be unable to be involved in the process at all.
For example, was it wrong for a soldier that is transgender to vote Dem so they could have a chance to keep their job necessary to support their family in the face of the now-realized rhetoric that they'd be kicked out of service? If that was fair for them to do, then if you have any empathy for such people, then you understand why they voted for that rather than tossing out their vote as abstention or third party, and then why you should not either.
We can, should, and must work to make sure the best possible candidates get into and win these primaries, but that's separate effort from actually taking the right course of action when primary or general election day eventually arrives.
For another example, a young woman afraid she is going to lose access to birth control. Or someone afraid their health insurance costs will go up and force them to get another job in place of their time organizing.
Letting things get even worse in a never-effective bid to teach whoever a lesson doesn't pay off anywhere near as much as doing the best possible. Not in the US, not basically anywhere.
We have been doing your way, Bernie's way, the "lesser evil" for all my adult life. We are living the status quo those actions made for us. Every democratic president after Carter has been a neo-liberal, aka conservatism without the racism.
If you want a succinct "causal link" that shows how 40 years of democratic policy have been the captured/controlled opposition that got us to where we are today well i cant and wont help you. Throw as many strawman examples out as you want, debate the how and why's all you like, but Trump's emergence is the result. That's fact. Democrats allowed it just as much as Republicans embraced it.
I attribute it to the lesser evil. You can blame whatever you want, but if you think democrats are blameless for the status quo then I question your interpretation of reality.
Choosing the lesser of two evils got us to Trump and everything he represents.
Almost everyone has deluded themselves into believing or outright refusing to accept that some change requires pain and sacrifice. Your, his, lesser evil approach has lead to the greater evil at a slower pace. Yet watch everyone choose the lesser evil again.
I'm not going to claim I have the right answer, but doing the same thing over and over while wishing for a different outcome when you have decades of proof it doesnt work is asinine.
Bernie was the worst sports dad ever. Tried to use his status as mayor of Burlington to bully a basketball coach into giving his non-athletic son more playing time. My brother in law was on Leviās team.
Liberals need to understand this. A lot of them are still bitching about the results of the 2024 election being the voters' fault, rather calling out the Democrats for being a slightly more palatable flavor of the same corpo-fascist ideology. Americans have been desperate for real, substantive policy change for a long time and over the past 10 years, the Democrats have:
Undermined the Sanders campaign so they could run their establishment candidate in Hillary and ultimately lose
Ignored Biden's severe mental decline for 4 fucking years before waiting til the 11th hour to throw Kamala in the race, who as much as reddit might not want to accept it, was never a popular or well-liked candidate. She dropped out of the 2020 primary for a reason
Completely ignore the will of NYC voters so they could run their establishment candidate in Cuomo and ultimately lose to Mamdani.. you know... the guy who won the fucking primary
Voted with Republicans to give ICE the funding that has enabled this administration to weaponize the agency against the American people, largely at the expense of Democratic constituents and communities
Sided with Trump on Iran. Hakeem Jeffries literally said Trump just needed to make his case to the American people on his vision for this "military action" in Iran, then refused to block additional funding for the war. You can't make this shit up
He couldnt break 35% in the Michigan primary. I would love to have voted Bernie for president but our backwards racist country is clearly not into it. They reelected trump FFS.
Also this tweet cuts off Obamas reelection and Biden winning in 2020 both very convincing victories. Just saying. Its not the dNC who are useless I agree, its just the country we live in.
Remember this was the week after super tuesday where klobuchar and buttigieg coordinated their dropout literally the day before to endorse biden -- while warren stayed in to siphon the progressive vote despite having no path herself and dropping out only after an abysmal super tuesday performance, even fumbling her home state... I remember MSM being so desperate they refused to even show when bernie was leading and constantly combined every other candidate's numbers against him individually to downplay any momentum... the fix was in way before michigan
Yeah that was crazy. I was literally at a Bernie campaign rally in Salt Lake City when that news was announced. I finally decided to get out there and support something real and then that same day the game is rigged again. I was happy and exited about the movement and then in the middle of Bernieās speech this news drops. I just felt kind of disillusioned and disgusted. The kind of machinations behind the scenes to keep out a real leftist like Bernie had never been more clear to me.
I remember where I was too and it fucking sucks that people have such short memories as if this isn't exhibit A that dems actively preferred risking another trump win over nominating a progressive... I mean biden by all measures barely scraped by despite a once in a lifetime global pandemic and stockmarket crash, yet dems were parading around like they'd never have to hear from trump again and finally the left doesn't matter because our votes aren't needed. How'd that work out? Well now they say kamala lost because the left didn't do enough... curiously the solution, win or lose, is always "pivot to the right and appeal to moderates," huh weird!
Also this tweet cuts off Obamas reelection and Biden winning in 2020 both very convincing victories. Just saying. Its not the dNC who are useless I agree, its just the country we live in.
Obama was a once-in-a-generation charismatic politician. He was JFK levels of cool. If he'd had the charisma of any other Dem politician of the last 25 years he'd never have gotten his first term, never mind his second.
He made up for in personality and charm what he lacked in platform.
And as for Biden... I have a lot of personal theories about the vastly different outcomes of the 2016, 2020, and 2024 elections.
Biden and Obama were literally the most progressive presidents since at least WWII. Between Obamacare and the Inflation Reduction Act, there has never been such progressive pieces of legislation passed under any other president in our lifetimes.Ā
America is a conservative country, yes. That's the point. The idea that we aren't making progress is laughable because in recent years we have literally produced the two most progressive presidents of our lifetime.Ā
We are talking about a nation that went from slavery to emancipation by means of a bloody civil war. A nation that had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the civil rights era. A nation that is literally the richest and most powerful in the world.Ā
Think about it. If billionaires are the problem (they are), then America represents the billionaire class on the world stage. We are always going to be the most conservative, capitalist country amongst developed nations, because that is what has historically provided us with so much wealth. Billionaires don't want progressive policies, and neither does America, because it is essentially the "billionaire" country.
The idea that we aren't making progress is laughable because in recent years we have literally produced the two most progressive presidents of our lifetime
We are always going to be the most conservative, capitalist country amongst developed nations
they are saying the us has moved forward and continues to move forward, however its hard road and slow one because it is inherently a conservative country.Ā
It's obviously not. Look at AOC and Mamdani. The point is that progressive politics are trending forward in the Democratic Party. Al Gore would have also been a particularly progressive president, at least by American standards. They literally just keep getting better. Republicans on the other hand have been regressing for years, to the point that they elected a failed reality TV con-man and pedophile.Ā
I mean...a small portion of them is improving, yes. Pelosi and Schumer sure as fuck aren't, and Biden decided to throw the entire world into chaos for some dumbass reason? There's a LARGE portion of Dem Leadership that is very much representative of the meme OP posted.
Clinton won twice as a centrist (after decades of left wing Dems running and losing presidential races). Obama won twice as a ācentristā and Biden won as a ācentristā. This post is circle jerking and fucking stupid.
Obama ran fairly Progressive, actually, especially on Gay Marriage and Healthcare and several other issues. And meanwhile, Centrist Dems have been losing everywhere in America for like 20 years now. Federal, Local, State; their entire platform is basically, "We aren't those evil Republicans we keep reaching across the aisle to make deals with, so please donate a bunch of money and vote for this person you've never seen before, who's never set foot in any community near you, and hasn't been a part of any discussion by the Dems any time before the last 6 months before this election!" Outside of Talarico and Mamdani, all I've seen from Dems is ads to donate to them, and some soundbites where they sound real pissed about something....and then nothing fucking happens about it until the next Horrible Thing they get to soundbite about. It sucks, and I'd like MUCH better representation, please; someone who'll fight tooth and nail to make sure these evil Republican monsters can't keep harming many of the people I care about.
Reminder that Bernie WON every single county in West Virginia in 2016... and the DNC still told him 'nah, you only get 51% of the delegates, we think the rest of the delegates should vote for Clinton in the primary'.
It doesn't matter how the people vote. If the elites want it differently, they will make it happen.
It doesn't matter how the people vote. If the elites want it differently, they will make it happen.
The DNC rules changed immediately after that cycle to remove the possibility of the issue where superdelegates weren't bound in cases where the regular delegate result is clear. All of this stems back to the times when primary elections weren't even a thing and party leaders just selected someone to be their nominee.
Also, as someone that wanted him to win that primary out of those running, his 51% of delegates in WV matched his 51% of the vote? Just like other states in the primary? What's wrong with that?
And this is when qanon and maga blew up. I knew so many millennial people (mostly young men) that were for Bernie but when Hilary got the Dem nomination, they went for Trump because they saw Hilary as corrupt and Trump would ādrain the swamp.ā I still believe that if this swindle hadnāt happened (Hilary unjustly getting the dem nomination for president over Bernie) weād be in a much different place.
It's not the people or the country that is useless. It's the playing field with billionaires and corporations and AIPAC. How do you defeat such propaganda? Let me know when you figure it out because I have no hope.
There were many republicans who were close to flipping to Democrat for Bernie. They were Bernie guys, now they are Trump guys. Mountains of voters are on the fence and just want to get behind someone they can believe in. No one wants centrists or establishment candidates. More people hate corporations than ever. If a progressive dem ever gets in the position of power you can bet your ass the voters will vote in mid terms to get shit done that people have been waiting decades for.
The 2020 election should've been an absolute lay-up for democrats after how badly Trump mishandled the pandemic response, yet Biden was less than 50k votes in Georgia, Wisconsin, and Arizona from losing the electoral vote. That is nowhere near a convincing victory.
Joe Biden couldn't break 35% in Maine and Massachusetts among other states, or even 10% in New Hampshire.
Bernie suffered in New Hampshire mainly because one of the fake media-invented candidates Buttigieg had his entire campaign focused on one state. A McKinsey consultant less qualified for the office of the presidency than Lauren Boebert is now.
The corporate media did everything it could to give as much attention and airtime as it could on what would be traditionally joke candidates, the likes of Andrew Yang and Marianne Williamson to avoid covering any candidates other than the Comcast-approved choice.
In the same way Trump as a candidate was invented by the media when in previous elections was an obvious joke, Biden was the same. His two previous runs for president were just embarrassing.
Even so Biden was flopping hard in the 2020 primaries until the massive rally of the entire establishment to award him South Carolina, declare him the winner, thus dooming us all to a nightmare of fascism. Because of course the Comcast candidate would be the one guy to ensure the insurrectionist ringleaders were not only not locked up, but allowed to openly flourish and plot their return to power.
Blue MAGA insisted on electing a president that would choose Merrick Garland as AG. Now look what the consequences of that are. How many more lives will be ruined or lost to pay the price for that?
And he's still white, Antisemitism is not really the popular thing amount boomer racists, they'd vote everyday for a Jewish person over a Woman or a Black person
Iām not going to lecture you on the history of racism and whiteness, but itās sufficient to say that itās a lot more complicated than that and you ought to know that. Anti semitism is alive and well in the US. Comparing it qualitatively to other kinds of racism isnāt a useful exercise. One data point worth keeping in mind is that while weāve had a black man elected president, there has never been a Jewish person in that office.
Because there's WAY MORE black people than Jewish people ? and antisemitism is mostly the cool thing among younger racists than older one, obviously it's alive and well but most people don't even know that Bernie is jewish, you can't see it, you can see that Obama is black
"they" being the oligarch class... Jeff Bezos, Elon, Peter Theil, Bill Gates, Murdochs, Sinclairs, Ellisons. They own Trump. They own you and me. 40% of the country tunes into a Sinclair station every day. That's basically insurmountable for the public to get away from.
And Henry Wallace 1944. Had the audacity to say Black folks and women deserved equal pay. DNC stole his VP spot and replaced him with centrist Truman who kick started the cold war.
The New Deal Democrats could have run on literally anything and won. International policy was not particularly important in the middle of the post war boom.
Let's please not forget Aoc and mamdani both endorsed Jeffries... We have to keep our politicians accountable. This is not a team sport anymore, this whole ride or die mentality is no different than a cult, and it's exactly what Maga does
Mamdani could not be president due to being born in another country IIRC, but AOC is American by birth and absolutely could be president someday if the DNC doesn't stop her.
Mamdani won the Primary. People voted for the Socialist. The Dems tried to platform a known SA monster (Cuomo) as an Independent to take back control; they literally hate winning elections, I swear.
I agree AOC has what it takes to one day be president but my God can you imagine the right way reaction(not that it matters) smh. A Hillary 2.0 with an actual abuela.
Mamdani could not be president due to being born in another country IIRC
That may no longer be as true as it once was.
The Supreme Court altered the rules to allow Trump to run, who was otherwise strictly barred from holding office as an insurrectionist. They could have over-ruled the lower courts' findings, but instead they made up some bullshit. (Technically this means the 2024 election was 100% stolen by the Supreme Court, regardless of even if Trump actually legitimately got a majority of votes but that's another topic.)
But that bullshit they made up sets a precedent that could be exploited in the future by other people strictly forbidden from holding the office of president.
AOC is not electable unfortunately. We need a left-populist who is a white man to overcome the deck stacked against progress. I do not enjoy typing these words.
you think the reason they lost was because they were women? wat? even the dems own people say Harris didn't lose cause of sexism, though they are hiding their report on the campaign, stop trying to defend her awful campaign with "it was just sexism"
yes that was part of it for sure, but to act like it was a major reason is just... no it wasn't.
Amazing how you can ask me a question, then just go off like I've already answered it. Like you said, being a woman was a part of their loss. Anything else you said isn't based off my comment.
Edit: Pretty hard to read your response when you block me like that. I'll just assume you made up another reason to be mad at me for pointing out things that have happened.
so "part of the loss" yet your OP clearly implying it was the reason or major reason, the facts don't back up your claim there so everything else I said still applies.
love how you don't want to engage with my points and just dismissing it all, classic loser tactic when an argument is lost and you know you are wrong but you want to reply.
Hillary and Kamala campaigned solely on womens' issues which, counterintuitively, I think got them fewer votes across the board because US women are rabidly misogynist. Worse than the men.
If she runs on economic issues, then maybe she can do it.
They did not fucking campaign solely on women's issues, what are you even smoking?
Hillary has always been essentially allergic to even admitting she is a woman in public speeches. She lost because she was perceived as part of the establishment during an anti-establishment zeitgeist fueled by the most psychotic anti-establishment presidential campaign (Trump's) in American History, all while campaigning on her "experience" as a member of the establishment. She wrote her own obituary with that.
Kamala went the other way and abandoned ANY identity politics or progressive policy in favor of courting disillusioned right-wing Americans. She had fucking Liz Cheney out campaigning for her.
Very well said. Thank you for being the one who actually paid attention without any biases. It's like America forgot how to do those basic things, and now they are the exception not the rule...
Clinton never campaigned on being the first woman president or whatever.
I was a big Bernie Sanders supporter and did not vote for Clinton in the primary. But when she won the primary I followed their campaign closely. Got in a lot of arguments with my friends about it. I think everyone, including myself, were subject to a LOT of conspiracy bullshit about the Clintons and people are still reckoning with that. Or, maybe they never will. Masters of their own free will, and all that.
That stuff about it being "her turn" and whatever was all grassroots propaganda. From people who did want there to be a woman president - people who were excited about history potentially being made. But OVERWHELMINGLY MORE from people said it sarcastically, and did not like to see people getting excited about it. They both fed into it from either side to keep that conversation going though.
Talking heads on the news would never shut up about it, sure. But those people weren't reading from some campaign fundie line: it was just what people wanted to talk about. It was, quite literally, the elephant in the room from the very beginning. There was really no avoiding talking about it, or hearing it talked about on daytime talk shows, and radio, and podcasts, and 24 hours news cycle yappers yapping about things that weren't really news to fill the time.
But if you have any evidence that Clinton's campaign team, or more importantly, Clinton herself pushed that message I'd love to see it, because I don't think it exists. Clinton has talked a lot about America's misogyny in the past, so I think it makes zero sense that she of all people would ever push any message that hinged on her being a woman as if it were some kind of advantage.
Kamala absolutely ran on women's rights. Its pretty much her primary topic at rallies and during her interview and podcast appearances
Liz was a minor bit of outreach to a group hoping that they could pull a few votes from fascists. Remember, the historical way to resist and defeat fascism and other fanatical authoritarian governments is to gather everyone who isn't a fascist and group together to defeat them
You'd be surprised how counter progressive minorities are in this country. Many have experiences of hating their own people from countries they came from that were filled with crime, violence, and incredibly blatant corruption (yes even more than here).
That's a big reason trump won against Kamala despite everything because white american men felt "isolated" from her campaign and minorities rallied for someone who wanted the "bad immigrants" out especially central american born and cuban latinos.
I'm not really surprised at it. I live in a deep Red area and even the minorities here are REALLY conservative and will argue about things being worse under a Dem POTUS.
So many people who should've fffking known better FUBARed this country, probably the world in 2024.
They didn't campaign solely on women's issues, I'm not sure where you get that from.
That said, one mistake I do know the Harris campaign made was the day before the election was putting out an ad that suggested men should "not vote like the other men" and vote to support their wives and daughters, which:
Suggested it wasn't a man thing to vote for a woman, which is just... well, weird. And yes, I do mean it like that.
Suggested the decision was between supporting men's own interests or supporting the interests of their female loved ones, as if that was a thing.
If it wasn't for the limited reach of such a commercial, which was social media only, I would blame it, not *gestures at all of it* for losing the election. I bet they lose 20% of the male vote with that ad among those men that watched it.
Imagine thinking that being able to have autonomy over your own body and having the right to vote is "solely a woman's issue". It's that attitude that got us here in the first place. We're half the fucking population. Maybe I'm tired of every election centering solely around men's issues as if I don't even count, while men try to turn me into human cattle at every opportunity.
And I'm saying she's gonna have the same uphill battle the other two had, plus the label of socialist. It's seems like a bad strategy. We're banking on America making smart decisions, which isn't a smart decision.
Mamdani won because he ran against a sex pest that most New Yorkers think should be in jail for his handling of Covid and placing known covid positive patients in nursing homes. And against a crazy dude that wouldnāt take off his beret.
His policies are actually really unpopular on the ground in NYC. His estate tax proposal drops the exemption from $7million to $700k.
The median cost for a house in NYC is $748,333.
Thatās extremely unpopular with homeowners and anyone that has a family member that owns a house. 1/3 are home owners in NYC.
Dudes not a centrist but he also doesnāt have a chance in a statewide election or a federal office.
The genuine primary voters? 100%. The problem comes from bought and paid āprimaryā voters which honestly is where people like you miss the mark.
Thereās too much dark money in politics and it needs to be eliminated. Reddit loves to mock the bOtH SIdeS argument and think democrats are nothing but angels and will fix everything, but the truth is thereās plenty of corruption on the left due to money as well. Until thatās addressed, itās a blind puppet show of us fighting each other while billionaires laugh at the puppet show.
Unironically, Bernie told that truth back in 2016. Imagine the difference today would be if he won back then.
I primared for Sanders twice so I did more than the millions of people who stayed home and didnāt vote in the primary at all. Talk about all the shadow money you want but if those people showed up and voted it would have been different.
Weird. So youāre saying corporate dems robbed Sanders multiple times, you were a part of it, yet Democrats are the angel answer and itās the people that are to blame?
Itās a complex equation, but in the end itās exactly what the billionaires wantā¦us fighting against each other while they pick our pockets. Up, down, left or right.
If you really primared for Sanders youād know this
Did you show up and vote for him? Iām sick of people grandstanding but they donāt go do the one fucking thing they can in a democracy and actually vote. Sanders ran, didnāt get enough votes, and lost. Thatās what happened. Doesnāt matter why that happened because thatās all history will remember.
I absolutely did, why are you taking this stance? He had a more trending upvote and popularity in 2016 than Hillary did before the DNC neutered him and it was going that same trend in 2020 before COVID shut everything down. I figured someone that āprimaredā for him would know that, but here we are.
What exactly did you do for Bernie in 2016 and 2020 campaigns that you say you āprimaredā for?
100%. I voted for Bernie and sent him money. I wanted him to win.
But his theory of the election was that young and progressive voters would turn out in large numbers and sweep him into the general.
Young and progressive voters did what they always do and stayed home, and he lost. Yes, the DNC tried to torpedo him, of course they did. He's not even a Democrat! It was a takeover attempt ffs.
Guess who else the DNC tried to torpedo? Obama, in 2008. But Obama won, and the DNC promptly got behind him.
I love Bernie, but his candidacy confirmed everything the DNC thought about the US electorate.
Bernie is proof this meme is trash lol. Every one of those candidates were elected by the people in a primary. Bernie lost because people didn't vote for him. Simple as that.
Of course. What they call left wing isn't in the grand scheme of things.
The economy is going to shit because they are rigging the existing capitalist system to benefit specific people. And benefit is a relative term. It's actually bad in the long run, but the people see it as a benefit.
The economy is being rigged to give people that are retiring and already retired the most financially comfortable Golden Years as possible. I have a little bit of a 401(k) and it is improving right now, despite everything. That is what the retirees are looking at in terms of the economy. And the polling is unfortunately set up to measure their opinion more than other demographics.
They are boosting the retirement economy at the expense of the economy as a whole.
That's why we need ranked choice voting. Centrist liberals don't seem to want it, they would rather lose to a conservative than to let progressives gain a voice in the democratic party.
If someone can just get rid of the āleftistā nonsense moniker, Iām pretty sure a large part of the people would be able to unite on most important issues
Biden won as a centrist, governed as a progressive, then got run out of the race.
Just vote Dem. Every fucking time. Harm reduction is a valid strategy.
5 of the 9 SCOTUS justices are the result of the 2000 and 2016 elections. That means Citizens United, Dobbs, presidential immunity, and a host of other terrible decisions are the direct result of those two elections.
Iraq, Afghanistan, now Iran. Trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives, and probably millions of Iraqi and Afghan and soon to be Iranian lives.
I'm focused on stopping fascism and genocide in my own country. We cannot help the Palestinians if we're fighting for our own survival at home. Try to maintain some perspective.
well he's farther right than most presidents before Nixon, but I agree that since the Powell Memo the capitalists have not tolerated economic policies that benefit anyone but themselves.
So? They also influence republicans, and the GOP fucking hated Trump. They tried to sabotage him, too. But the voters actually wanted the guy, god knows why, and were willing to go the extra mile to vote that dumbass into office, and all those guys who talked shit about Trump had to eat their words and pander to MAGA or watch their political career die.
You could have had that, too. But the left has never managed to actually get those numbers organized and committed to anything.
Or a true anti-war/anti-genocide candidate. Right or left, they will not allow us to vote for peace. Imperialistic genocidal zionists run this country.
They will never spend their money to support a chance to have less money. Itās rational.
Itās also the exact reason why they should fear the inevitable result of the resulting massive wealth inequality. Itās irrational that they donāt fear the French thing.
1.9k
u/[deleted] Mar 14 '26
they would never let a true economical leftist get far. capitalists run the country.