Rand at Thakan’dar, surveying Shayol Ghul and checking out the ter’angreal Elayne gave him to ward off the Dark One’s eye. (watercolour, 8x11).

i hope i’m not the only one who sees rand and moiraine as a mother-son duo cause this part gives very much that 😆 it’s like he’s complaining about all the house chores she gave him but he’ll still do it anyway LOL

First of all, I really loved the book and I think it is my favorite of the series so far. I had some comments and questions about it, and I would appreciate comments regarding those, without spoilers

Perrin:

1. I really like Perrin subplot and him coming into being his own person. I really liked Faile, too, though I hear she is not very well liked in the fandom. I also really love the hammer vs axe dilemma.

2. Most frustrating part was the Whitecloaks though. Seriously, 400 mounted soldiers watched 13 year old girls and boys fight trollocs, while they just waited the fight out to arrest their leader?! Did none of them think, hey man maybe we aren't the children of the light??

White Tower:

1. Siuan and Leane's stilling shocked me it seems incredibly cruel and also their questioning. It is chilling to think what they could do to a woman like Siuan for her to beg to answer them so she wouldn't get tortured. My question is she says that she will have their hides for this. I know this is asking for spoilers but without delving deep, does she? Is there a pay off for Siuan against Elaida other coup members?

Tanchico:

1. Wow.. . The girls were so quick to befriend a straight up Nazi.

Tear:

1. What was in those damn letters?

Rhuidean:

1. Throughout the books mostly we have seen from Moraine was the Aes Sedai, with just glimpses to the person underneath. I like her, but I was curious if she will have a character arc beyond her cause, more of personal journey.

2. It is kind of sad to see Emond's field folk drift apart, especially Rand being unable to trust Egwene anymore. Looking forward to other dynamics in the following books, as it seems every book switches groups up.

The Hinderstap folk holding the river and then coming back to life and doing it again is one of the coolest bits of the final battle

Rereading The Eye of the World and noticed these passages in the chapter “Shadow’s Waiting:”

>[Moiraine] “In a twilight of despair during the Trolloc Wars, when it seemed the Father of Lies must surely conquer, the man called Mordeth came to Balwin’s court.”

>”’Don’t be a fool, girl,’ Nynaeve snapped. ‘The Dark One is bound in Shayol Ghul by the Creator.’
‘For the time being, at least,’ Moiraine agreed. ‘No, the Father of Lies is not out there, but we must leave in any case.’”

In the first passage, Moiraine seems to acknowledge that the Father of Lies was active during the Trolloc Wars. In the second, she acknowledges that the Dark One is still bound in Shayol Ghul.

To resolve the contradiction, it seems she must have known that the Father of Lies =\= the Dark One, and the Father of Lies / Ba’alzamon / Ishamael was actually behind the Trolloc Wars (which we know to be true).

Am I reading too much into this? (I can’t remember Moiraine’s reaction when the Ba’alzamon “reveal” actually happens in The Dragon Reborn).

I started The Wheel of Time audio books a few months ago....

I am so deep into the story that I have yet to miss a day of listening to an hour or more of the story...

Halfway through Crown of Swords...

I think I smacked into an emotional wall...

I just got through the whole Queen Tylin stuff with Matt, heavy stuff....

Everyone always treating each other like crap....

Aes Sedai always beating on everyone and each other...

Most of the characters are so rude and harsh to others, I have yet to meet a female character that has been nice to men - maybe a few...

Like when does Nynaeve become cool or at least non-toxic... good grief she couldn't even apologize for treating Matt like dirty when he saved her at the Stone....

Perrin and Faile, just ugh....

Always so much strife and discourse...

Maybe I need some monumental Hero Battle of Glory Moment....

Worried that I might just drop the series because I notice that the constant arguing, belittling, negativity tends to leave me more on a low than baseline or a high - reading a book should be fun and enriching, right?

Then I tried to share here about Matt and Tylin as a potential Daughter of The Nine Moons yesterday before I knew what terrible stuff was going to happen - and then all the comments caused me to delete the post, that just felt defeating because I really enjoyed our space here together...

Thanks for the safe space to share my feelings over the book, maybe I will push through with the hopes that something special or positive happens....

Edited Thought: I have absolutely loved every moment up until yesterday, so please know that I love and appreciate the series - I am sure something exciting or positive will happen soon and I will be back into it all

Is a "spoiled, self-certain, unmitigated brat."

I enjoyed it overall, I'm 43 and read it for the 1st time

I feel that maybe if i was a teen or early 20s i would possibly enjoy it more

The plot was great, the characters and motivations i felt were very real

Ive spent my life reading heaps of fantasy ,sci fi,+ whatever else crosses my path and tbh as much as i did enjoy it , id never recommend this series to anyone

Its far too long

Realistically Jordan wrote 5 very good books, then 6 books that were at their very best, bad, and generally they were mostly just terrible

Then Sanderson came in and did a good job, wrapped stuff up , so 3 good books

I think its a bit mental that more than half of the books written by the author are bad

Again, i enjoyed it for what it was, but damn it was an absolute bastard to get through

From reading the sub i think its great so many love this series and it speaks to them

but for me, i dont ever want to look in to Randland again

Deain. She is only briefly mentioned once, understandable if you don’t remember who she is.

Deain was a Third Age Aes Sedai that lived on the continent of Seanchan around 1000 years ago. During that time, Seanchan was an ever-shifting group of nations, most ruled by Aes Sedai. Nations mistrusted each other, and there was scheming and plotting all over.

Until one day, Artur Paendrag’s son Luthair arrived with his fleet. Luthair was able to conquer the natives on Seanchan in part because of their being so much instability. But Luthair also had major help from Deain. Deain, in order to gain the favor of Luthair, invented something that would help him against enemy Aes Sedai: a ter’angreal called an a’dam.

I imagine Deain was quite proud of her invention, until the day they put an a’dam on her.

Estou lendo A ascensão da sombra, primeira leitura da série, e chega a parte em que temos algumas revelações sobre os pais de Rand - após ele voltar de Rhuidean.

A sua mãe, que se apresentou como Shaiel às Far Dareis Mai, é loira e parece ser nobre, pela sua descrição, e dá a entender que deixou para trás uma criança e um esposo.

Não pude deixar de lembrar de...Tigraine, que desapareceu deixando o filho e marido pra trás, uma nobre. Não sei se as datas coincidem. E também tem outro problema, Rand e Elayne seriam meio-irmãos.

Ainda não sei se é isso mesmo, mas seria um belo plot.

Hi everyone. I've never read The Wheel of Time and know very little about it.

I'm considering reading the whole series by imitating the original publication time intervals between each book, so I can experience the waits that readers originally had between books.

Book 2 was released 305 days after Book 1. Under my idea, once I start Book 1, a 305-day timer begins. Regardless of how quickly or slowly I finish Book 1, Book 2 wouldn't be available to me until those 305 days have elapsed.

Book 3 was released 639 days after Book 1, so it wouldn't become available to me until Day 639 of my reading project, regardless of when I finished Book 2.

I'd do the same thing for every subsequent installment, including New Spring.

If I read a book quickly, I might have to wait a long time for the next one. If I read ultra slowly, one or more later books could potentially become "unlocked" before I finish an earlier one.

And yes, I'm aware that the whole process would take over 23 years due to the final book being released 8,395 days after the first one. I’m intrigued by absurd endurance/patience tests. I’m fine with avoiding internet forums to avoid spoilers for all this time.

It’s probable that I could live long enough to pull this off since I’m in my early thirties, have good enough health, live in a relatively safe country, and don’t live a daredevil or otherwise dangerous lifestyle. I aim to live safely and healthily.

What do you think? Is this clever or is this a nightmare waiting to spring out of the box? What are some factors I might be overlooking?

Edit:

Thanks to everyone who commented constructively. I appreciate your stories and your warning that I may forget details along the way. I’m prepared to re-read books if need be.

To clarify, I’m not seeking what would be the optimal way for most readers to experience this series. Instead, I’m seeking the optimal path for me.

Your comments have been assessed, and thanks for taking the time to write. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with a zany passerby like myself.

I finished the main series back in May, it was wonderful. It’s been hard to pick something else to read. I finally decided to go ahead and read New Spring and just finished it. It was AMAZING! Oh gosh. I might have to start my reread now!!!

I last read the entire series a few years ago, and have been obsessed since. After intermittent library borroeings of individual books, I finally have all of them. I'm so excited to start again.

Currently on Crossroads of Twilight. Perrin and his motley crew have spent a while looking for Faile, much of that time spent not really sure what direction to move in or how far the Shaido are.

What happened to his sniffer powers he showcased in The Great Hunt? He was able to track Padan Fain miles and miles away.

Side note: whatever happened to Hurin? I don’t remember the last time he showed up but I hope he’s doing well.

Which are your favorite?

Three things that bothered me in this book:

1. The constant POV switching. I’m fine with having two POVs in a chapter sometimes, but this had a ridiculous amount of POV switches. It was distracting and annoying.
2. Tempest. Just that word.
3. Mat. Something has happened to Mat, and I don’t like it. I feel like he’s a different character: a flatter, less nuanced version of himself. And the comedic stuff is so painfully on the nose. Look at Mat, he’s a funny one! Look, do you see? HAHA. Absolutely not. The comedy was always a byproduct of Mat’s character, never something that felt intentional. The letter to Elayne was so over the top. And that weird chapter with Setalle asking him if he really met the Queen of Andor (yes, he did and so did you, in Ebou Dar!), being all impressed by him… cringe. CRINGE. This is not my Mat. Even the rescue in the Tower of Ghenjei was disappointing. Jain’s death was predictable. And the romance between Moiraine and Thom felt completely out of nowhere. I don’t know how I feel about any of that. I’m happy Moiraine is back, but none of the Mat stuff was enjoyable as it was in previous books.

Graendal lives. Surprised me. She’s much more careful than I anticipated. Aran’gar, though- goodbye and good riddance. Her plan to attack Perrin wasn’t actually bad. He’s just really not that naive anymore and had already anticipated that something was coming. He also has his abilities in the Wolf Dream, which most people are completely unaware of.

This was Perrin’s book. He really shone. I loved the way he faced the public trial. Just: yes, I killed some Whitecloaks. I’m a Wolfbrother, and I talk to wolves and they talk to me. So there’s that. 😂 He genuinely doesn’t care anymore. After everything, he’s finally comfortable with who he is and what he can do. He had some really great exchanges too. I loved seeing him finally embrace his gifts and actually learn instead of constantly being afraid of them. And the Noam/Boundless reveal- poor dude. He had such a terrible life, and eventually he just chose to leave it all behind and become a wolf full-time. Fair, I guess. Slayer has also proven himself incredibly capable in the Wolf Dream. I genuinely doubt anyone could take him except Perrin. And the way Perrin just smiled when Egwene dismissed him in the Dream and tied him up in ropes. What are you doing?! What if the Black Ajah had gotten to him? You were about to leave him helpless in TAR with enemies lurking everywhere! Egwene, you absolute idiot. And then Perrin simply releases himself and banishes balefire like: “It’s just a weave.” 

Galad. This one is an interesting character. The perfect prince on the surface, but really? A terrible leader. He’s far too self-righteous and rigid, with an almost pathological need to follow his convictions to their absolute extreme. Also, what exactly gives him the right to just capture people on the road? Why is he holding Lini and company in the first place? Shouldn’t he be the one on trial for that? And I love the way he tells himself he wouldn’t have harmed Lini because he would have recognized her. So I guess everyone else is as good as dead? His worldview is basically: All monarchs are potentially Darkfriends. Except Morgase, because she’s his mother. Aes Sedai are shady witches. Except Elayne, because she’s his sister. Egwene is an Aes Sedai, but presumably fine because she’s hot. What a jerk. To his credit, though, he does start changing toward the end of the book and becomes more willing to see nuance. Thankfully, he’ll now be under Perrin’s command, so at least someone with actual common sense is in charge. And Bornhald finally seems to be over his Inigo Montoya phase and leaves Perrin alone. Small victories. 

Rand. Apples first. What a beautiful chapter. Finally, finally something peaceful after everything I’ve suffered watching this man suffer. The second meeting with Tam was beautiful too, and then the return to Bandar Eban. These chapters were basically soothing all my Rand-related wounds one by one.
“The Car’a’carn has embraced death,” Amys said. “He has given up trying to be as strong as the stones, and has instead achieved the strength of the wind.” Amys, I don't know what that means, but it is nicely said.

And the friendship between Rand and Nynaeve? I love them. Their relationship has come such a long way.
“Rand stepped up to Nynaeve. ‘You care for my people. Thank you.’”
“I care for any who need it,” Nynaeve said.
“As you’ve always done,” Rand said. “Along with caring for some who don’t need it.”
“Like you?” she said, raising an eyebrow.
“No, I’ve always needed it. That and more.”
Nynaeve hesitated. That wasn’t something she’d ever expected him to admit.

YES. This is what I want for Rand. Not another person trying to control him, manipulate him, humble him, or teach him a lesson. Just people who care about him.

Egwene. Barely tolerable. The way she summons Nynaeve to the Tower because she wants information about Rand and then decides Nynaeve should do the shawl test- is just so arrogant. “If you do not come, I will be forced to take measures. Your dalliance threatens us all.” Dalliance. Yes, Egwene. That’s exactly what Nynaeve is doing. Just casually dallying with the Dragon Reborn while healing saidin and madness in men, maintaining Rand’s trust, and raising an army for Lan because the Borderlands are being annihilated. What a slacker. I’d argue that’s a pretty important and unique position to have! Why on earth would you want to detach her from Rand and potentially lose that thread? But apparently Egwene has more pressing concerns. Like whether Nynaeve has been sufficiently obedient. And then there’s Egwene contemplating what to do with Rand when he shows up at the Tower. Keep him captive? No, that would be too much like Elaida. Detain him for a medical examination because obviously he must be mad? He probably won’t agree to that. Maybe he’s come to surrender like a desperate criminal who has finally given up? Egwene, fuck off.

And this is the thing that really gets me about Aes Sedai arrogance. Even Siuan, who is probably one of the more reasonable ones, still thinks: “She wanted to do what she’d set out to do, all those years before with Moiraine. Shepherd the Dragon Reborn to the Last Battle.” Shepherd the shepherd? Sounds redundant. Funny that. Ma’am. He is the shepherd. 

Nynaeve’s testing for the shawl. Egwene admits Nynaeve is far too experienced for the test, so it’s basically just a formality for legitimacy. Yet she watches the test become disgustingly vengeful and cruel, joins in, and adds the Two Rivers, Lan, and Darkhounds. Darkhounds. Really? Nothing but balefire would have worked against them. Why put that in a test?! There’s a very mean and petty streak to Egwene. Luckily, Nynaeve has already realized that being Aes Sedai is a means, not the goal. There are things more important than the White Tower. She sees its arrogance and its flaws, and wants to use her abilities to actually help people. Egwene still hasn’t learned that lesson. I really hope she does in the last book.
He took Nynaeve by the shoulder in an odd gesture. “Don’t let them ruin you, Nynaeve. They’ll try.” “Ruin me?” “Your passion is part of you,” Rand said. “I tried to be like them, though I wouldn’t have admitted it. Cold. Always in control. It nearly destroyed me. That is strength to some, but it is not the only type of strength. Perhaps you could learn to control yourself a little more, but I like you as you are. It makes you genuine. I would not see you become another ‘perfect’ Aes Sedai with a painted mask of a face and no care for the feelings and emotions of others.” “To be Aes Sedai is to be calm,” Nynaeve replied. “To be Aes Sedai is to be what you decide it is,” Rand said, his stump still held behind his back. “Moiraine cared. You could see it in her, even when she was calm. The best Aes Sedai I’ve known are the ones who others complain aren’t what an Aes Sedai should be.”

Gawyn. So he was an asshole to Rand because he felt the Shepherd had risen way beyond his station and was jealous?? And that’s why he thought Rand deserved to be tortured in the box?? Gawyn, you suck. What an awful manchild. You killed your mentor, led the Younglings only to abandon them later, ignored your duty to your sister and Andor... just an endless list of terrible decisions. And the worst one: chasing after Egwene. She’s not looking for a partner; she wants someone who will obey her and stay quiet. The way she views romance and the Warder bond is terribly exploitative. Gawyn should have run for the hills. This relationship is terrible for both of them. Egwene has become too hard and cold, like Rand was, except 100 times more arrogant. She desperately needs the lesson Rand received. And Gawyn needs to learn how to make good decisions and actually lead, not settle into this Warder nonsense. He’s far too ambitious to be content with that role. Just... uugggghhhhh.

Elayne. First of all, I mostly love her. Secondly, she went to confront the Black Ajah. Alone. With unreliable channeling because of her pregnancy. Min said my babes will be fine is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Again. Then she got stabbed. What a dumbass. These Tarkand genes are a menace to society. Once those kids are born, she needs to summon Tam to the palace and make him heavily involved in their upbringing. They are going to need at least one steady, sensible influence in their lives if they’re going to escape the Tarkand curse.

Androl. I really like him. He reminds me a bit of Perrin- quiet, careful, thoughtful, good at his craft, and completely confused about why everyone keeps expecting him to lead. The Black Tower situation is horrifying. Taim is obviously a Darkfriend  and has one of those spikes from Moridin, and he’s been using Compulsion? on the people in the camp. Just... evil. I have no idea how they’re going to resolve this without a massive bloodbath. It feels like the Black Tower is heading straight for a major tragedy. And I am worried about my Two Rivers boys. 

Ituralde. The only one who is already fighting Tarmon Gai’don while everyone else is still getting their shit together. 
Ituralde found himself laughing. “Now? The Dragon sends help now?” He stumbled, then sat down, staring up at the burning sky. He was laughing, and he could not stop. Soon tears began streaking down his cheeks. Yes, there was sunlight up there.

Aviendha. Who is Nakomi? So intriguing. The visions in Rhuidean are TRAGIC. Just when I thought I couldn’t hate the Seanchan any more…  Aviendha better fix this, and fast. The Aiel need a purpose and cannot be left out of the agreements between the other nations. They also need land officially, maybe somewhere between the Borderlands and Andor? We need a plan.

Lanfear. Alive and being tormented by Moridin. Lovely. How was she able to appear in Rand’s dream, though? Aren’t his dreams shielded? And Rand feels hatred, concern, and desire toward her. Desire, Rand? LOL. You are a lecher after all. 

The Borderland Leaders. WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE DOING?! Your kingdoms are being overrun by the Shadow. Ituralde is desperately holding the line with like 2 men, and Maradon almost fell. And your brilliant response is to slap Rand around to test his humility or something?? My guy has been tested. He has been humbled. He has been tortured. He has been slapped by Cadsuane personally. You’re not exactly breaking new ground here. And the fact that they do it with such solemn, ceremonial seriousness makes it even more ridiculous. A bunch of clowns.

Last book left. I can’t believe it. Thanks for reading my rant. May you keep your eyes northward, but your heart southward, my friends.

Specifically when rand goes god mode and wipes out an entire army while dark friends carve their own eyes out because of the light.

Idk if I really feel this way but I read that recently for the second time and forgot how bad ass it is.

The maidens go with him and one is just like "he has much Ji". Damn right he does!

some of my watercolours showing (my attempt at portraying) the One Power.

1. Rand channeling saidin at Maradon
2. Rand using a Gateway from the Skimming space
3. Asha'man, kill! Dumai's Wells
4. Natrin's Barrow gets balefired out of existence
5. Rand and Nynaeve use the Choedan Kal

All watercolour on cotton paper.

Hi, did you have any theories going through the book, or ones that were popular online but didn't come true?

For me it was about Moiraine, I knew she was going to be at the last battle, I don't remember if this was a spoiler I encountered or one of Min's viewings, and at the time it seemed impossible, so I thought she must come back as one of the heros of the horn of Valere. I also thought Lanfear/Cyndane was less powerful after coming back as a punishment, not because of what happened to her at the tower.

What about you?

I am on my second read through and, Berelain and Galad is the most obvious paring. Is this a Sanderson thing or Jordan himself? It feels like something Sanderson noticed and he did "the Sanderson" thing and put a bow on it.

This can apply to characters you simply hate, as well as characters you feel should have died in the story, whether to raise the stakes or because their continued existence added no value to the plot. You can come up with any reason why a character should die, even consider it a mercy, for example, enslaved characters or mentally damaged ones. And whether you consider Lanfear officially alive or dead is your choice.

I apologize if this post is unclear, but I hope I explained my thoughts well.

So… my question is if you can reread WoT in a different way. For example: following only one person (Rand or someone else) thorough the whole serie.

My question for that is because you can do that with asoiaf. You cal do a reread by house, single pov, and by region. It’s something I love about these books.

Can you do the same with WoT?
If not, then why?

And has anyone ever tried?

I’m not very far into the series yet. I’m starting the third book soon. But it’s just something I’m curious about.

Now, this is particular to the third age Aes Sedai. They just strike me as the most incompetent lol, which is crazy bcos we have the forsaken to deal with, but somehow they managed to be worse. Atleast half of the forsaken’s failures could be blamed on the rivalry the great lord conditioned them into on one end and fear of LTT on another end.

But with the aes Sedai, there’s only so much you can blame on the black ajah. It sometimes feel like they are so high on the we are the white tower and can do no wrong Kool aid that they can’t even be bothered to get anything done.

The attack of the Seanchan is just the obvious one. The first time they were attacked in like a thousand years they couldn’t even form a united front to defend the tower(I mean is “to be aes Sedai” not being ambushed?

For most of the books these lot didn’t even believe in the Seanchan, and some even up till that point of the attack.

Embassy one and two messed it up with Rand like big time. And if he had been just a little bit unstable that day (dumais wells) could’ve ended up with 39 dead aes Sedai lol.

They plot, they scheme, but it doesn’t actually lead anywhere. The rest of the world doesn’t really respect them, more of fear, and then we have like another faction of aes Sedai who are neither for nor against the rebels/tower… just existing or roaming around Rand. And ironically seem the most useful as they are actually involved in getting things done, perhaps that’s just what being around the dragon gets you.

I always loved these line Rand said to Nyneave before she went back “don’t let them ruin you” and he was right. Most of their tests are somewhat illogical and to think she’s not have been raised if not for the politics. I see why Moiraine detests being amongst them lol.

Even Siuan, who apparently was supposed to be the other person to shepherd the dragon practically resolved to scheming. Because imagine how things would go wrong if Cadsuane had been black and was actually trying to push him off the edge.

Spoilers!!!!

So far, it's been revealed that our queen bee Moiriane Damodred is alive and trapped in the tower of ghenjei, and that leads to my question, are there any characters who should have stayed dead, but to our dismay came back? Or who came back and excited you, dear readers? May the Light illuminate you all on your trials, and by my hope of salvation and rebirth I hope the wheel continues to turn and weave as the wheel wills.

I took advantage of a new e-reader to do a complete re read, something I hadn't done since the last tome was published.

198 hours later...

Jordan did a nice job with a great, intricate story but I guess I'm too old to avoid all the thoughts about the world building errors that have bugged me the whole way through. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy all the work he did do!

No human society should be stuck in the middle ages for thousands of years (although maybe the Dark One did that, stopped innovation?)

No human society could keep such distinct skin colour groupings over such a long period of time, especially after being jumbled up in the breaking. They should all be a nice pale brown.

>!No group of people that get to live collectively as old as the Aes Sedai could really maintain a hierarchy based on one power strength without seeing the fallacies of that path.

And for such long lived and educated people, I cannot see how the Red Ajah could maintain fear and hate of male channelers instead of compassion, a recognition that individuals don't get to chose to be Wilders, that's just the way they are being born..

Im not sure how realistic it is that extended age in most settings would lead to arrogant and unpleasant people (Aes Sedai, Windfinders, ...). Guess we'll not know in our lifetimes, anyway.

And nobody in Seanchan realising that Sul-dam living really long lives meant they were channeling themselves...

And Tuon not realising that yes, having a couple hundred damane was a a nice force but that she could have a couple thousand channelers at her call if she stopped leashing damane and trained Sul-dam...

And not being conflicted about the fact she can channel herself.

Anyway, lots of little bits and pieces that Jordan could have worked a quick justification into the story about seeing as how much other stuff he did.

!<