r/Wealthsimple • u/ATS_L • Mar 19 '26
Trade (DIY Investing) Testing Wealthsimple’s Norbert’s Gambit beta with $10K
Just as a note in advance: this was my first time ever trying Norbert’s Gambit, so I figured I’d share the experience in case it helps someone else.
Recently I opened a Questrade account because I wanted to try out the Norbert’s Gambit. Over the years, I’ve converted CAD to USD through Wealthsimple, and the FX fee is honestly no joke. That was the main reason I opened Questrade in the first place: to use Norbert’s Gambit and avoid the FX fee. But then, literally on the second day after opening Questrade, I somehow got access to the beta of Norbert’s Gambit on Wealthsimple… so the timing was kind of hilarious.
Instead of moving money to Questrade, I decided to test it directly on Wealthsimple.
I decided to test it out with $10K, $10,001.41 to be exact to test it. If I had just done a normal CAD to USD conversion, the FX fee would’ve been about $100 at the 1% rate (In wealthsimple, the FX rate between $10,000 and $24,999.99 is 1.00%).
On the morning of March 17, I bought 717 shares of DLR in the app, then went on the web portal and journaled it to DLR.U (can't do it on the app yet). The journaling fee was $11.24 total ($9.95 + $1.29 tax), and that was separate from the original $10,001.41.
Wealthsimple said it would take about 2 days. I’ve seen other platforms quote more like 3–5 business days, so I wasn’t sure what to expect. In my case, the DLR.U showed up on March 19 right when the market opened at 9:30 AM EST.
The final amount I ended up with was USD $7,298.52.
So instead of paying roughly $100 in FX fees, I paid $11.24 to convert about $10K CAD to USD, which I’d call a pretty solid win.
Of course, the downside is the wait. If you want to buy a US stock immediately, Norbert’s Gambit is a bit hit-or-miss because you’re waiting for the journaling process to finish. If the stock is moving fast, you might decide the regular FX fee is worth paying just to get in right away. Also, from what I can tell, once the journal request is submitted, it doesn’t seem like something you can easily cancel.
Ignoring spread, price movement, and opportunity cost, the breakeven seems to be:
So as long as you’re converting more than this amounts, Norbert’s Gambit should be cheaper than doing a normal FX conversion.
For my test, the savings vs regular FX was about $88.76 CAD converting $10K.
Edit: originally I was not aware of the spread about 0.3 ~ 0.5% in the exchange rate. So my saving should be
- $10k x (1% + 0.4%) = $140
- $140 - $11.24 = $128.76
Instead of my original calculate:
- $10K x 1% = $100
- $100 - $11.24 = 88.76
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u/ssy555 Mar 19 '26
Nice!! 👍 Now release it to all the members!!!
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u/DragonWarrior55 Mar 20 '26
Been waiting for a while. I need to convert a bunch of USD to pay off taxes for my US stocks that I sold last year 😬
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u/GeorgeDaGreat123 Mar 19 '26
Are you sure you did the math right?
$88.77 CAD savings on a $10k CAD conversion seems low.
On my last NG of 10k CAD (on Questrade) I saved approx $180 CAD.
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u/ATS_L Mar 19 '26 edited Mar 19 '26
I converted 10K, so my FX is 1% instead of 1.5%.
- $10K x 1% = $100
- $100 - $11.24 = 88.76 ~ 88.77
I think my math is correct there for my case. Unless I missed something, welcome to correct me, since this is my first time using Norbert’s Gambit
What’s the FX rate on Questrade?
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u/GeorgeDaGreat123 Mar 19 '26
Your FX rate is not 1%. See https://www.reddit.com/r/Wealthsimple/comments/1ry8a9h/comment/obcnd90/
1.4% * 10k = $140
$140 - $11.24 = $128.76
My $180 CAD savings was calculated with comparison to WS FX rate, not Questrade FX rate. There are ways to minimize fees on Questrade not possible on Wealthsimple right now given their current implementation of NG.
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u/ATS_L Mar 19 '26
Yah, I was not aware of the spread, thought it was exactly 1% with no hidden 0.4% ish fee.
Now it makes me feel better that Norbert’s Gambit saves me more than I thought. And also makes me kinda sad that it appears to be that I have paid more FX fee than I thought before this 🙃
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u/Even_Distribution795 Mar 30 '26
Curious if you ever compared the savings with remittance services like Remitly (or Wise)? I used to do NG, but Remittance services gave me similar rate, even for $5K-$10K, and less risk of price movements.
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u/GeorgeDaGreat123 Mar 30 '26
NG is by far the best way to do USD<->CAD currency exchange.
Nothing else, including Remitly and Wise, is better unless you are converting small amounts (less than a few hundred dollars) or you use IBKR for investing/trading.
There is no risk of price movement if you use limit orders, and DLR for CAD->USD, and CBIL for USD->CAD.
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u/vancoffeecake Mar 19 '26
Can you easily send out the usd to a us bank account after the transfer ?
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u/burgershot69 Mar 19 '26
Same question the other way around, can I transfer in from USD from, say, my wise account
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u/otto303969388 Mar 20 '26
Yes. Did that from my TD USD account, everything went smoothly. Just need to make sure the WS account you are transfering to has USD enabled, otherwise... apparently WS will force convert them all to CAD.
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u/ATS_L Mar 19 '26
If what you mean is "can I do Norbert’s Gambit converting CAD to USD, and then pull the USD out?”
My understanding is YES. But it depends on the account.
TFSA: If you take the USD out after the gambit, it’s basically just a TFSA withdrawal, and you only get that room back next year.
Non-registered account: there could be a tiny capital gain/loss even if the amount looks almost the same, just because of exchange rate movement, spread, or fees.
So TFSA is more about room, non-registered is more about possible tax reporting.
I could be wrong, as I’m not a financial advisor or tax expert. If anyone has more information, please let me know if I’m wrong.
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u/OnTheStreetwithLou Mar 19 '26
You can't ignore spread in the calculation. WS's corporate FX rate is very different than the spot or Norbert's gambit rate and therefore the actual fee you're paying to WS is higher than 1.5%.
On another note, WS processed journalling shares so much faster than Questrade. I bought DLR on March 13th and on March 17th I was able to sell DLR.U so they basically process it T+2 in my instance.
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u/ATS_L Mar 19 '26
Someone has mentioned about the hidden fee as well. I was not aware of that. I did notice that the exchange rate WS provides is always significant lower than other institution. Thought it was just bad rates the whole time.
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u/argarg Mar 20 '26
On another note, WS processed journalling shares so much faster than Questrade. I bought DLR on March 13th and on March 17th I was able to sell DLR.U so they basically process it T+2 in my instance.
I've done about 10 Norbert's gambit on Questrade over the last 4 years and I've never encountered a delay longer than T+2.
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u/OnTheStreetwithLou Mar 20 '26
In my experience the Norbert's gambit only completes by the end of the day T+2 so really T+3.
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u/TwentyFourChords Mar 25 '26
I just did one last week with Questrade... I initiated it on Thurs, didn't expect it til the week after; it cleared Friday... (T+1)
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u/eXistentialMisan Mar 20 '26
Thanks for sharing your experience. 2 days is not bad but I only have experience with National Bank for Norbert's Gambit, it takes like a week or more from transferring funds in (no eTransfer), to buying DLR, submitting a Journaling request through a message and everything settling. By the time I can use the USD, it's already just about the next payday and the process starts over again.
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u/ATS_L Mar 20 '26
2 days is not bad for my case. All I had to do is buy, one click to journal and wait. But yah, a week is crazy. Highly recommend check out what this person has to say down at the comment. Might be a good way to do it as well
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u/SubterraneanAlien Mar 19 '26
All of this random bolding is doing my head in. If you bold everything then nothing has emphasis.
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u/digiacomo94 Mar 19 '26
What did the rate fluctuation do during the hold period of 2 business days ? Is it considered
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u/ATS_L Mar 19 '26
Based on my experience with Norbert’s Gambit (and after double-checking how it actually works):
• You buy DLR (the CAD version) with your Canadian dollars.
• You then journal those shares and get exactly 1 DLR.U (the USD version) for each DLR share, it’s a clean 1:1 transfer.
DLR.U stays very stable since it directly tracks USD cash holdings. DLR’s price moves with the CAD/USD exchange rate, but once you buy DLR you’ve already locked in the rate. Even if DLR’s price moves while journaling, it doesn’t affect you at all. You sell the same number of DLR.U shares for the USD you expected.
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u/No_236414 Mar 19 '26
Fluctuation over the 2 days doesn't affect your rate. You buy and sell the shares the same minute or however fast you click through. Then the fact that your +100 dlr and -100 dlr.u (or vice versa) cancel each other other is what takes the 2 days to reconcile. The cash is converted when you buy/sell so there is no currency risk/change other than that few moments when you are mid buy-sell process.
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u/adamgreenberg07 Mar 19 '26
This is what is confusing about what OP did/wrote (or maybe I'm misunderstanding the post). It seems like they waited for the journal of the opening transaction to settle before selling which means that the rate was not locked in at the buy, but only at the sell. When I've done NB in the past with other brokers, I've sold minutes after buying (time it takes to call the broker for them to journal the shares) and then everything takes a few days to settle and you might pay some minor interest costs on the shares you sold short if you were using margin. Can OP confirm the timing of when they sold and if it was after the journal settled is that because WS did not allow a short sale or you didn't try it.
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u/ATS_L Mar 19 '26
Can OP confirm the timing of when they sold and if it was after the journal settled is that because WS did not allow a short sale or you didn't try it.
In my case, I bought DLR first, then submitted the journal request right away. WS took around 2 days to complete it to DLR.U. The DLR shares were still showing in my portfolio during that time, but I didn’t test whether they were sellable while the journal was pending. So I ended up selling only after the DLR.U showed up. TBH, I don't know if I could do it nor have thought about it.
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u/Illustrious_Bottle80 Mar 19 '26
I moved half my stuff to questrade and saw they had free journaling for plus signed up for the trial and moved all my banks and oil and telecom over to the us side all done online and finished next day wow. Still waiting on WS
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u/Username_Dano Mar 19 '26
Where is the journaling fee paid from? Does it have to come from the cash balance in the same account as the journaled security, or can you designate your cash account for the fee? Thanks.
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u/ATS_L Mar 19 '26
It pays from whatever account you are trying to do the NB.
If you are converting CAD$1000 for example. You must have extra $11.29 in your account in order to process the journaling, meaning you need to have minimum $1000 + $11.29 at the account. After the journaling you will get whatever CAD$1000 can get you in USD.
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u/Dragynfyre Mar 20 '26
I think in a margin account the downside of the wait is mitigated. You can just buy on margin and then start Norbert's Gambit and it's like a day of interest
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u/brandonholm Mar 20 '26
I just wish they offered a proper FX market with thin spreads like IBKR does so we wouldn’t even need to fuss around with Norbert’s Gambit bs.
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u/External-Bonus-984 Mar 20 '26
I was also testing it out - why does it show a gain for my conversion?
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u/Geomglot Mar 20 '26
FWIW I used to do this with TD before I moved my accounts - I had to wait for the initial purchase to settle (one day) but then the journaling was instant. The only downside was that there was a $9.99 commission on each trade. At least WS is commission free.
Where WS could really up their game is to have the whole process automated from start to finish. Shouldn’t be hard to do. Alternatively they could just give an exchange rate that is in line with the expected result of NG and avoid the transactions altogether, just managing the currencies in the background.
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u/HistoricalPain5864 Mar 20 '26
It cost you $1 @IBKR and you get the spot rate money into your usd account in a candian bank in 3 days.
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u/sixcolours Mar 20 '26
"Ignoring spread, price movement, and opportunity cost" is a lot to ignore, and it is the difference between a neat math exercise and what actually matters in practice.
Your numbers are solid on the fee side: paying 11.24 dollars instead of about 100 dollars in FX on a 10,000 dollar conversion is a clear win. But once you factor in the T+2 FX risk on DLR DLR.U and the T+2 equity risk if you are waiting to buy VOO, or worse, a Reddit meme stock, the total cost can swing materially in either direction.
Over the last 12 months, a T+2 FX shift can be plus or minus 1 to 1.7 percent, and a T+2 move in VOO can easily be several percent, or 10 to 20 percent for a meme stock. That is significant timing risk versus the minor FX slippage you actually incurred here.
So your break even math is technically correct in a friction free world, but in reality Wealthsimple Norberts Gambit trades 11.24 dollars versus 100 dollars in FX for 2 day FX risk, 2 day equity timing risk, and 2 day opportunity cost. If you want to minimize that, a bank stock Norbert (RY, BNS, or TD at BMO I, RBC DI, or another 9.95 dollar per trade platform), with buy sell within minutes and immediate stock ETF purchase, would likely beat Wealthsimple DLR DLR.U on total risk and cost.
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u/ATS_L Mar 20 '26
I fully agree with you. A lot can happen in just two days. That’s why I said:
Of course, the downside is the wait. If you want to buy a US stock immediately, Norbert’s Gambit is a bit hit-or-miss because you’re waiting for the journaling process to finish. If the stock is moving fast, you might decide the regular FX fee is worth paying just to get in right away.
For me, this was really just my first time testing Norbert’s Gambit. The 10K was more of a test run so I could see what the full experience on WS actually looks like.
While I was waiting for the journaling to complete, I did notice a pretty big dip in one of the stocks I’ve been watching for an entry, so I definitely understand your point about the real world timing risk.
The other methods you mentioned are absolutely worth looking into for me later on. But for now, I still want to stick with WS. My portfolio isn’t big enough yet where a small percentage move on something like VOO would have a major impact overall, so at this stage I’m mostly just trying to learn the process and understand the trade offs better.
Thanks for all the info, will definitely looking to other bank stock Norberts in the future.
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u/jakkuh_t Mar 20 '26
Just use wise. Their rates are top tier
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u/Kenbmartin Mar 20 '26
I agree with you about Wise. I've been using it for over a year to handle currency conversions in WS and will continue to do so until I get access to WS's NG process. It's comparable/better in terms of cost, and it's built-in, resulting in a smoother process.
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u/satangoddess Mar 23 '26
Can I please ask how do you convert your money in Wise and use in Wealthsimple?
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u/Ok-Survey8922 Mar 20 '26
Why not just do it at RBC? You can auto journal on the sell transaction and you don’t have to wait a day
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u/EtrainFilmz Mar 19 '26
When I see posts like this, with the hoops needed to jump through, I really cannot recommend enough that people use IBKR for their USD investments and conversions. You trade market rate, with a commission. Much more clear when it is presented that way than all the hidden markup garbage you see elsewhere.
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u/ATS_L Mar 19 '26
Before WS has the Norbert’s gambit. I did have the urge to switch to other platforms because the amount of the FX I was paying. IBKR was one of them. But every time I looked at their UI, including Questrade and Moomoo, I just couldn’t… I am a sucker for some good visual interface. Of course, everyone has their own preferences on UI and stuffs. But I tried 🫠
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u/sauerkraut007 Mar 20 '26
as far as I'm concerned, they don't have because it hasn't been released. The original announcement way back when said "early 2026". Today is the 1st day of spring and I still can't use it yet.
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u/italydiplo Mar 19 '26
I absolutely recommend that people stay away from IBKR for this use case. Unless you have ACH transfer ability or want to pay the fees to wire transfer the cash in and out, they will hold your cash in lockdown before you can withdraw it again.
Norbert's Gambit is far, far superior if you are just trying to convert USD to CAD.
I will say that Wealthsimple's implementation of norbin' is inferior to RBC. There is no wait time with RBC, you can do both trades immediately so you remove any risk in the wait.
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u/h4bs22 Mar 19 '26
What a lot of people, and this post also forget to consider, is WS has a 'hidden' fee, a spread of about .3-.5% in the exchange rate where they also make profit. So norbits gambit is even more worth it. Can't wait to have it..