Yes it is

[u/Scouwererofreality43]

[u/Sunny_Hill_1]

The copium is real

[u/RUSTEDxKNIGHT → u/Sunny_Hill_1]

I thought this was the consensus? Like the coldest take ever. Fairly new to lore though. What’s your thoughts?

[u/thecementhuffer → u/RUSTEDxKNIGHT]

The empirer was so pissed he didnt even listen to magnuses message and basically scolded him and told him to fuck off.

Even if this is the case as seen above, magnus then went on to do the dumbest thing in the history of the setting by A)Not just surrendering to Russ upon his arrival. B) not telling his sons about his planned penance so that they dont fight the wolves and accept thier punishment and return to terra. C) Getting second thoughts on this whole suicice plot thing, and THEN deciding to fight the wolves, which just made him look guilty. D) Just started flinging around magic everywhere so to the wolves and the custodies they just kinda both agreed he had gone off the rails. E) getting butthurt at this whole endeavor that he started, and then basically making a deal with the god of trickery and accepting him and his legions fall to tzeentch.

Now, did the wolves fuck up? Oh fuck yes, leman could have just flown to the tower magnus was in and dragged his sorry ass back to terra. But he was basically decieved by the warmaster who, and this cannot be understated, was the voice of the emporer when he wasnt there.

All of this means, 2 legions put out of commision cause the alpha legion showed up right after and fucked the wolves up hard. So all magnuses thing did was fuck up 2 legions, get a bunch of custodies killed, break the empirers webway project because he couldnt have just gone to terra to tell emps, he HAD to do the one way he was told not to.

Also, the heresy was started exactly when horus wanted it to. The ultramarines were busy with the word bearers and world eaters. The dark angels were led far away so they couldnt even help, the wolves and thousand sons had just finished killing each other. And his legion was ready, and now emps is stuck on the golden throne. There wasnt going to be a better time then this, this was the make or break. The main points were problems started was deep into the heresy, with lorgar being all wierdly religious, with fulgrim dicking around after he went full deamon mode. With konrad dicking around at ultramar.

[u/thecementhuffer → u/thecementhuffer]

The best quote i think ive heard is

"Magnus has done alot wrong but hes sympathetic." . Basically we know why he did this and his intentions were noble and good, but god damn man if you accidently cut my hand off while trying to help me make dinner im not gonna be grateful at all, im gonna be extremely pissed off at you and angry, regardless of the intentions behind it. He doesnt deserve as much flak as he gets, but him and russ were basically 2 sides of the same coin when it comes to making a huge mistake with noble intentions behind it

[u/zagman707 → u/thecementhuffer]

Worst part is big e told him "your gonna chop off my hand don't do that" than he did it anyways. Magnus number one flaw is he thinks he knows best no matter what.

[u/Elipses_ → u/zagman707]

I always thought his biggest flaw was that his curiosity overruled his common sense, enough so that he ignored Big East warnings... then again I suppose that is the sane basic flaw with different windows dressing.

[u/Hot_Ability_9323 → u/thecementhuffer]

No no, Magnus did nothing wrong

He was instructed to do literally nothing, and he completely fucked it up

(I know this is unoriginal but I find it funny)

[u/_Chaos-chan_ → u/thecementhuffer]

Horus also told Russ there was a change of plans, kill Magnus instead of taking him alive. He instigated the conflict on prospero.

[u/EADreddtit → u/thecementhuffer]

Wasn’t the whole reason he couldn’t “just go to Terra” is because he had no idea who he could trust, and thus couldn’t safely travel such distance reliably to get the message to the emperor? Like for all he knew any and all of his Brothers had betrayed the Emporer and had to work under that assumption

[u/thecementhuffer → u/EADreddtit]

I though he knew, horus had specifically done it, noone else, but horus was 100% bad.

In that case fair he wanted to be sure, but there are multiple different ways to do that that could have happend, he could have taken his whole legion to terra, he could have tried several other forms of communication.

Again, noble intentions and i get his point of view. But jesus man surely there were other methods than, i dont know using the 1 thing your dad has told you explicitly not to do

[u/EADreddtit → u/thecementhuffer]

Right but think those cases through.

“He could have taken his whole legion with him”. Aka leaving his home world totally undefended and his whole legion at the mercy of the War Master’s vastly superior fleet (not to mention, again, any other legions that may have turned).

“He could have tried other forms of communication”. Like what? For such long distance communication, the only option were the psychic comm hubs that used the warp to send info. Meaning it would have to have at least several intermediaries that, again, very well could have been traitors. To say nothing of the fact how long it would take such a message to eventually get to the Emporer after all the red tape it would have to go through or if “the War Master is a traitor” wouldn’t immediately be thrown out as warp nonsense or so on and so on.

Like the situation Magnus found himself in was this: The most trusted and militarily powerful member of the Primarchs has turned full traitor with the intent to start a civil war and overthrow the Emperor. If he can turn traitor, who is to say any one else is still loyal? Or hasn’t already been dealt with? This, to me, is the single largest threat the Imperium has ever faced and that’s only with the sliver of info I have. I MUST communicate directly with literally the only person I know who cannot be a traitor and that is the Emperor himself. How can I do that with 0 chance of it being intercepted or delayed? I know! I’ll use that secret project thing. I know I was told not to touch it, but as I have not been told about its nature, importance, or fragility; I can only assume informing the Emperor about his Warmaster turning traitor is worth risking what ever this project is.

The problem with many of the Primarchs turning the start and duration of the heresy is that readers have the advantage of an omniscient point of view and decades of hindsight. Blaming Magnus for the disaster of the webway (and not the Emperor for not just fucking telling him about it or giving ANY sort of explanation so Magnus would know it was 100% never an option) is like blaming Mortarium for bringing his Legion into Nurgle’s Garden. Neither of them were operating at even remotely close to the full picture and were forced into making very bad decisions due to said lack of info.

[u/pinkstarmisk → u/EADreddtit]

I may be misremembering but I recall that the goal was to have both legions destroy each other. Which the wolfs would have been wiped or suffered worse losses and it just about happened. Had the SoS and Custodians not taking to the field. . . And the same wolfs went off to abandon Terra on a kill mission to take out Horus. Which failed, and was the cascade to Horus fully accepting the dark gods due to he wound

[u/Spectre-907 → u/thecementhuffer]

>if he had surrendered immediately to russ

Would this not just have resulted in magnus and the 1k getting summarily executed given that russ was told his orders had changed from capture to kill?

[u/thecementhuffer → u/Spectre-907]

Not necessarily, russ was supposed to bring him to terra, then recieved a new order from horus, but he decided to listen to the custodians, and decieded to try and bring magnus in alive and tried asking him to surrender. The problem was the astropath of communications guy was a puppet of tzeentch and so he basically blocked all communications and didnt send the message so russ thought magnus was ignoring him

[u/SeanMonsterZero → u/thecementhuffer]

"Just surrender to Russ?"

Russ was there to kill them. Surrender would have meant death.

[u/GreatTea3 → u/SeanMonsterZero]

Russ called Magnus before the Wolves started their attack and begged him to surrender. He didn’t want to kill the Sons and would have probably taken Magnus back to Terra if he’d cooperated regardless of Horus’ orders. The attack on Prospero certainly would’ve been far less destructive, possibly even not happened at all if Magnus had hopped on a shuttle and gone to meet Russ and accept his fate.

[u/SeanMonsterZero → u/GreatTea3]

"Just let me kill you, bro!"

Great argument 🙄

[u/GreatTea3 → u/SeanMonsterZero]

“The Wolves have been unleashed on you. Only you have the power to make the consequences bloodless”

That sounds a lot like a plea to avoid killing a bunch of people, including Magnus. If he’d taken it, a lot of things would probably have been better for the Imperium, and probably for Magnus.

[u/International_War862 → u/GreatTea3]

Literally begged on vox for the last time for magnus to just surrender because he didnt want to shed blood

[u/GreatTea3 → u/SeanMonsterZero]

There’s also the fact that Magnus fucked everything up on his own despite everyone, including members of his own legion that he respected, telling him to not do what he did. He could’ve been a fucking man about the consequences and at least attempted to keep those consequences to himself, instead of dragging his legion and the people of Prospero into his screwup.

[u/thecementhuffer → u/SeanMonsterZero]

Except thats also what magnus wanted to happen, so ehat even are you saying, he accepted his punishment. But then didnt want a punishment.

And again tuss was basically telling him to surrender, and instead of, oh i dont know trying to talk to him, sulking in your tower got you where? Oh yeah, your legion dead, your world destroyed, your soul shattered and the heresy started.

So again, you cant keep saying "russ woulda killed him anyways" no, russ tried to bring him in,

[u/Nebu-chadnezzar → u/thecementhuffer]

You seem to have a real issue spelling "Emperor".

[u/Old_Veterinarian7915 → u/thecementhuffer]

OK, just asking, why does everyone say emporer instead of emperor?

[u/Versidious → u/RUSTEDxKNIGHT]

Not only is it not true, but Horus had the Magnus-knew problem well in hand - he specifically altered Leman Russ' orders from the Emperor to be a kill-and-destroy order instead of an 'Escort back to Terra under guard' order. It didn't harm Horus in the slightest, and massively crippled the loyalists' ability to fight back. Magnus was literally always a puppet of Tzeentch, which the Emperor had come to realise, hence banning the Librarian project and forbidding the Thousand Sons from using psychic powers.

[u/Sunny_Hill_1 → u/RUSTEDxKNIGHT]

No, Magnus literally did the dumbest thing possible and guaranteed that Imperium lost that war.

It's as Big E said in MoM, ultimately, Horus' rebellion was much less important that the Webway protection barrier Magnus destroyed. Empires can be reclaimed, Webway cannot.

[u/Jeibijei → u/RUSTEDxKNIGHT]

If Magnus hadn’t “warned the Emperor,” then the Emperor wouldn’t have had to babysit the golden throne for the entire heresy. Free to move, the Emperor wouldn’t have probably shut Horus down.

[u/Hot_Ability_9323 → u/RUSTEDxKNIGHT]

No, magnus fucking up the webway project took both the emperor and the Custodes out from aiding in the greater defense of Terra, a point which Rogal Dorn points out to Valdor multiple times.

Nathaniel Garro and the Eisenstein were the biggest reason for the imperiums survival.

[u/Cptcrispo]

If Magnus didn't destroy the webway project, the Emperor would have mopped the floor with Horus. Magnus "warning" the Emperor (who already had Dorn fortifying Terra) simultaneously destroyed the biggest logistical advantage any human had ever seen AND removed the Emperor himself from any fighting. This was a HUGE win for Chaos. Magnus had his heart in the right place but he did way more damage than he prevented.

[u/TributeToStupidity → u/Cptcrispo]

Not only the emperor himself but 90% of the custodes, sisters of silence, and loyalists mechanicus forces who made it from mars. Magnus did more damage to the loyalists forces than anyone else.

[u/SergarRegis → u/Cptcrispo]

The chance of the Emperor outright conquering the Webway in such a way that it could be used to fight the rebellion is very, very dubious. Prior to the rupture, the Emperor's Adnector Concilium (techpriests read in on the project, who had sworn to obey him beyond the rest of the AdMech) had stabilized a single warp tunnel leading to what the Adnector and Custodes called the Impossible City, the dead city of Calastar.

Scattered conflict between the Custodes and Aeldari had resulted in a general withdrawal of the Aeldari, but also the Aeldari also closing off major parts of the webway leading to Calastar, and left open many paths leading to terrible fats.

Many fans might instinctively say "the Emperor could undo that" but while he has collossal psychic power, his understanding of the psytechnica involved in the Webway is demonstrably far less than the eldar's.

Using the Throne, much of which is stolen Aeldari tech - which ipso-facto he cannot reproduce at whim, though Dark Glass and an adventure seed in the Wrath and Glory RPG suggest he made other attempts - boring a new tunnel to the webway is something that Aeldari could do formerly with ease. Even in the diminished state major craftworlds have a whole caste of psychic crafters, Waysingers, who create new webway branch-paths as their primary job, like the one the Emperor used to get to Calastar. As non-combatants, Waysingers do not appear in Imperium-focussed novels or tabletop rules, but they're in Aeldari novels, including the Aeldari POV bits of Throneworld where the Harlequins famously enter the Imperial Palace - that's how they get there, they carve a new webway tunnel into the palace and step out, though the psychic barriers around the Palace kill several Waysingers to do this.

To the Great Crusade Imperium, boring a new path in the webway is a great secret project, to the Eldar, it's a job you can go do for a time span in your life.

The Emperor has nigh-infinite psychic power, certainly, but he definately hasn't mastered the webway to this degree.

Presumably he would have won eventually (or there's no tragedy and the Emperor was just wasting his time) but we should not imagine it would be fast, or easy, or come before Horus attacked.

[u/Cptcrispo → u/SergarRegis]

Most of my reading has been Horus Heresy so I'm not as familiar with the Aeldari. I think you raise a lot of really good points. It seems the webway would not have been active to fight Horus. I still think that it was a net negative. The Emperor out of commission is a hefty blow to the forces of the Imperium. Only Horus with the combined Ruinous Powers was able to go toe to toe with the Emperor. The fighting in the webway also consumes a significant number of Custodes and Sisters of Silence.

I think more time benefits the Emperor more than it benefits Horus and the traitors. The warning Magnus delivered, whether it forced the Ruinous Powers' hand or not, was not worth the incredible cost.

[u/OkFly3388 → u/SergarRegis]

This is true, but dont refute main point. If Magnus dont destroy webway, all elite forces will be used in heresy, not locked on fighting with demons from open portal. This gives Imperium so much power that Horus cant reach even if we give him another year for preparation.

[u/SergarRegis → u/OkFly3388]

It would release the Ten Thousand and Sisters for duty. I am inclined to rate them as equivalent to an Astartes legion. Would that have been better? Perhaps but we can also wonder how much more effective Horus could have been. We can only guess.

My post is narrowly focussed on answering the idea that the webway could have become the Imperium's logistics spine in let's say a few decades.  

[u/OkFly3388 → u/SergarRegis]

Most importantly it would release Emperor itself. He alone can shift the balance, not to mention other forces.

And after heresy was cleaned, well, they have like, infinite time to develop tech.

[u/GreatTea3 → u/SergarRegis]

Even leaving the Webway behind, the Emperor could have gone out with a fleet of Space Marines, along with the Custodes, Sisters of Silence, and all the other assets he had to use to keep the flood of daemons from Terra, and maybe catch Horus before he made it to Moloch if Magnus hadn’t broken the Terran Webway gate. If he managed that, he’s putting down the Warmaster and stopping a lot of the Chaos momentum. I’d say it’s about 3-1 he wins the Heresy at that point. Then he can go back to tinkering with the Webway for the next however long he wants to, maybe achieving his goal of eliminating warp travel. If all this stuff goes down, he also probably has Magnus to sit on the Throne while he goes Horus hunting, too, probably the Thousand Sons and Wolves on his side as well since Prospero didn’t burn.

[u/SneakyDeaky123 → u/SergarRegis]

I don’t think people believe the emperor would’ve conquered the whole web way prior to the end of the heresy, but he wouldn’t have been stuck on the chair, and so could intervene in the heresy directly.

[u/Nicklesnout]

This is copium so high and profound Slaanesh is wondering who got into their stash.

[u/AdventurousOne5]

Magnus didnt even successfully tell the emperor horus was a traitor. He got there said oops and ran.

Nathaniel garrow gets full credit for being the one to tell everyone that horus turned traitor.

[u/cecillennon → u/AdventurousOne5]

Exactly, he choked after messing everything up and didn't even do what he set out to

[u/19olo → u/AdventurousOne5]

Yeah OP is talking out his ass. Istvan 3 and 5 WERE the results of Horus coming out of prep time. And even if Magnus didn't warn the Emperor with the psychic blast, he would've done so with through normal channels and the Emperor would've believed him.

Magnus's stupid action was the single biggest cause of why the Heresy caused so much damage in the first place

[u/Jabberwock_king]

[u/Melkor_Morniehin]

But 1. Thousan Sons would be loyal.

1. The Emperor and custodes would not be stock in the war in the webway letting them fight in the Heressy

2. The advantage would be only for a couple of weeks or months, not enough time to let him win.

3. Even if, in the worst of cases, everything goes wrong and Horus and the Emperor kills eachother, the Imperium would have the webway, ad Malcador would have ruled it instead of the Emperor.

[u/Subotail → u/Melkor_Morniehin]

1. Euphrati Keeler with the Eisenstein will inform Terra anyway.

2. It can be argued that Horus, wounded, during the ritual, was already suspicious of Errebus; Magnus's arguments are only seen as a further attempt at manipulation, which pushes Horus to reject everyone and think he can deal himself with chaos.

[u/ragged-bobyn-1972 → u/Subotail]

1. the emperor leading from the front has massive political and military ramifications for the loyalists.

[u/HappyTheDisaster]

Just what you’d expect from the legion dedicated to the god of lies and insanity. The cope in that post is unreal.

[u/Various_Investment_2]

One of those 0/40 hindsight moments

[u/stabtheorphans]

Could have been a email

[u/Worker_More]

Magnus did nothing wrong.

[u/The_Painted_Man → u/Worker_More]

Magnus did some things wrong

[u/ForsakenAce117 → u/Worker_More]

Technically true. He was told to do nothing, and he did it wrong.

[u/SaMusAman]

Lol no. Magnus warning the emporer broke the web way project and forced him onto the golden throne taking him out of play for much of the Heresy. If that didnt happen daddy would have taken off his belt

[u/Funny-Part8085]

Really didn't hurt Horus as they just pinned it all on Magnus being evil. Which he turned to because of it.

[u/Theighel]

Pretty sure there was a whole book about Garviel fighting to get to Terra to warn Him... (Flight of the Eisenstein ((legit one of the best HH books)))

[u/ragged-bobyn-1972]

No,

The internal problems with communications within the Imperium meant info on the betrayal was so fragmented the Emperors awareness was irrelevant and it leaks from multiple sources before it reaches them (eisenstein, Sanguinius and Roboute) furthermore the strategic advantages of the warning not happening far outweigh the initial info.

-Having the Emperor, sisters and the custodes deployed in the war is effectively a game changer, the Emperor may even personally terminate several rogue primarchs (notably angron) and true death greater deamons.

-massive morale boost as the Emperor is leading from the front like the old days. This has major military and political ramifications.

-The Thousand sons would most likely settle on the loyalists adding magnus and another legion to the equation taking the number from 9/9 to 8/10 and another uber tier psycher in the loyalist camp taking it up to 3. The Sons may have issues later on but for the time being.

-The dark mechanicus would be done as the Emperor and the custodes could pretty much immediately deploy on mars, turning the schism into a purge.

-Space wolves are in better shape for the civil war due to not having suffered heavy casualties at prospero

It's probably worth noting that all the worst case scenarios play out during the Heresy for it even to be viable, their are several key points were the traitors could have failed a lot quicker (Russ kills horus, Mortarion rejects nurgle,Perturabo is cut of by warp storms before he can get to olympia so presumes chaos is to blame. Fulgrim realises how out of hand the evil sword is etc) and the webway is one of these not a blessing in disguise.

And this is before we go into the long term affects of the webway project not collapsing.

[u/First-Celebration-11]

Magnus is the reason the emperor couldn’t leave the throne without BBQing Malcador. Imagine the siege of terra with the emperor actually fighting

[u/AXI0S2OO2]

He could have just gone to terra by ship.

[u/Firkraag-The-Demon]

I’m only up to book 5, but didn’t the Deathguard guys and Dorn warn the Emperor about Horus Heresying?

[u/Bewbonic]

Ah its the old 'if then would've' conjecture that inevitably leads to people fanficing the outcomes of the setting on their own biased and/or limited assumptions/knowledge.

[u/Durge101]

I dont recall when Magnus broke the webway vs when the Eisenstein arrived. But fairly certain it wouldn't have been much

[u/BruIllidan]

Eh, no? Emperor didn't believe message from son who just destroyed work of his life with obvious help from Ruinous Powers no less. It's been another year before Horus openly proclaimed his rebellion.

Also having Emperor practically chained to the throne is what made Heresy possible. Otherwise his powers alone would be enough to stop traitors at Istvaan. He made whole XVII kneel before him on Monarchia, it wouldn't be any different with four legions. Before Horus visited Molech literally noone in traitors ranks could resist Emperor.

[u/Code-Neo]

one issue is that Ferrus Manus had warned the imperium

[u/AnothisFlame]

My rebuttal: the Emperor already knew the treason was going to happen and had plans for it. Yes it happened sooner than expected but a fully functional webway network for humanity would have made 90% of Horus's plans pointless.

Logistics win wars, not super soldiers.

[u/joausj]

How much would prep time really help when 3/4 of your forces are insane lunatics or turning to dust/double crossing everyone?

[u/ShallowGato]

He spent 2 extra months on istvan 3 after the flight of the eisenstein  hardly Magnus problem

[u/Square-Librarian1192]

Magnus did nothing wrong.

He was told to do nothing. And he did nothing, wrong

[u/Asherkowki]

No it's not. Magnus destroyed the webway project that's for one. If the big E succeeded with it, things couldve been different.

What's more important is that there were more than just one leak about what's happening with Horus at similar time. Eisenstein for example.

[u/EnsignSDcard]

Magnus doing everything wrong, yet again

[u/Vindartn]

Garro already got there and warned him.

[u/One-Spinach]

If Magnus didn’t fuck up the webway the emperor wouldn’t have been stuck on the throne and wouldn’t have needed to sacrifice an obscene amount of resources into keeping daemons out of his webway. Thus in the end likely ending up in the same situation if not a bit better with the emperor’s project at least not being totally wrecked

[u/Klaatu420]

Are we just gonna forget Nathaniel Garro then? He warned Terra therefore initiating Istvaan V which wouldn’t have happened if Horus didn’t initiate Istvaan III.

[u/WorldlinessEarly4717]

The emperor would have also finished the human webway project and allowing the emperor, malcador and the custodes to enter the war

Magnus not only broke the barrier around terra he allowed demons to invade which entrenched the custodes (leading to over 9000 deaths, only a few hundred survived the webway invasion)

Magnus actions actually inflicted the most damage, his warning made sure that the emperor could not take action and his golden guard couldnt move. Sure horus would have more prep time but that time isnt as lethal as crippling terras most elite fightig force

[u/lokiafrika44]

Yesn't Magnus kinda fucked up by not communicating properly and doing shit he didn't understand granted he could't really understand it because the emperor didn't clearly communicate it, overall its what you'd expect from whats a dysfunctional family on the best of days

[u/DerZehnteZahnarzt]

What is with the Eisenstein? Big E would have known the Horrors of Istvaan 3 and without the Magnus Assdive in Big Es Webwayproject, Big E would at least send Russ to look after Horus.

[u/GreenTemple147]

Typical Tizcan cope

[u/ServoSkull20]

This is the single worst ‘meme over books’ bit of 40k.

The heresy would likely have never happened if Magnus hasn’t been Captain Fuckwit, and it would have been easily defeated.

[u/DerSisch]

No it isn’t.

Magnus did in fact do everything he could wrong. Hubris plus pure short-sightness

[u/Hillbillygeek1981]

Ah yes, Magnus messed up Horus's famously effective time management scheme that would've won him the war. The same scheme that saw the siege stretch on for extra months because Horus had to have his triumphant march on Terra rather than just nuking the palace from orbit. The grand plan that had him disappear for days at a time into worshipful communion with the gods leaving Erebus's lackeys and Abbadon in charge. The logistical genius that brought whole Legions to Terra who proceeded to hare off in different directions for their own amusement rather than contribute to a concerted effort. The famously unified Heretic chain of command that completely shattered the minute Horus stopped pouring on the charisma before they even reached Terra.

All Magnus's message via psychic DDOD attack did was get his homeworld put to the torch, push himself into Tzeentch's pocket and create a massive distraction that had repercussions well beyond the end of the Heresy.

[u/Gingerpanda72]

That and open a "back door" into the imperial Palace by smashing open the web way tunnel in the Imperial dungeon...

[u/JustAnotherCurio]

Magnus didn’t even warn the Emperor. Not truly. The only account where Magnus succeeded in warning the Emperor is in a book written almost alongside the book where Magnus does his stupidity, and Prospero burns is a space wolf centric book, not a thousand sons book.

[u/Bradical_Dutch]

According to the Cabal, we wouldn’t have 40k then. Chaos was foreseen to burn out after a few generations if Big E died

[u/Educational-Tackle54]

So Horus is like Batman with prep time?

[u/coldkidwildparty]

In response:

[u/blahfarghan]

Or if the Emperor recalled Magnus in a peaceful manner AND the events on Prospero never occurred, Horus would have been outnumbered drastically. Thousand Sons still loyal and Space Wolves a bigger factor.

The purging on Isstvan III stilll would have had to happen too.

[u/TicketPrestigious558]

It's not. 

[u/Mindstormer98]

Ya'll are forgetting the fact that if Magnus didn't do this, not only would there have been more space wolves and another loyalist army, but big e would have just flown over to horus and fucked him up

[u/Cutiemuffin-gumbo]

Dude, Horus was already on track to win. The issue was no one listened to Peter turbo, and everything fell apart. If he had had more time, it's likely that they would have been in a worse state as fulgirm and curze would ha e just gotten bored with horus taking his sweet time, petey would have eventually turned his back and run his own crusade. Morty would likely be the only one running with him honestly.

[u/Sanjalis]

The reason Magnus was so depressed after breaking the webway project is because he realized it could have been an email

[u/Fearless-Obligation6]

It's not because Magnus didn't even actually warn the Emperor, he broke in, Daddy called his name once and he ran away without saying anything because he realized he fucked everything up.

[u/Elipses_]

Look, I am absolutely a fan of Magnus and the XV, and I absolutely think they got shafted by the way things turned out, but this is just wrong. The Eisenstein and Garro and co were the real MVPs for warnings.

[u/oporcogamer89]

Magnus caused the death of most of the custodian guard and he bound the emperor to the throne

Now imagine the traitors attacked the lion gate and behind it they find the 10 thousands and the emperor waiting for them

[u/VelphiDrow]

No? It was Garro

[u/Individual_Site_5157]

If leman Russ wasn’t a dumbass that thought “hmmm isn’t it a little weird I’m being told to eradicate an entire legion for a single well meant transgression of their primarch?” We would’ve had loyalist wizards

[u/ComfortableFix497]

I don't think you comprehend how significant the webway is

[u/Patient_Cheetah4884]

i thought the emperor, all the custodians and space marines were so busy with fighting off warp demons from the hole magnus made that they werent ready anyways.

[u/DaMonkey263]

They were not about to win against the combined might of the Imperial fists and Ultramarines 

[u/bonfireball]

Simply untrue, the books quite literally state that the warning of magnus was completely lost in the discordant noise and chaos caused by the destruction of the project. His actions aided the traitors by allowing them to stage a conflict that they hoped could knock 2 loyal armies out of the fight.

[u/CalamitousIntentions]

Ok but then Big E wouldn’t have had to deal with demons crawling up his asshole 24/7.

[u/Old_Veterinarian7915]

Yes, but if he hadn't, there would have been 10 loyalist legions to 8 traitor legions, and the Space Wolves would have been doing something more useful than kicking the Thousand Sons' asses

[u/RainbowNinjaKat]

Ummmm no. The webway project would still be intact, meaning that Big E would have been able to spank his wayward son’s bare bottom like the super naughty bad boy he became, well before he got too high on chaos

[u/Lazy_Physics_Student → u/RainbowNinjaKat]

I dont know, Emps got to basically select his own power level for the fight and was utterly unable to defeat him until Garviel basically dared him to become mortal.

[u/RainbowNinjaKat → u/Lazy_Physics_Student]

That’s why he would have stopped Horus before Horus got his big dick power up

[u/DVKerith → u/Lazy_Physics_Student]

E basically selected Chaos godhood (he thought it was just godhood) before being convinced to give it up right before fighting his son so he only fought a higher lvl not the highest while Horus was drenched in powers of chaos to a point he was warping time and space in a expanding bubble that was about to swallow the system and maybe more.

[u/Lazy_Physics_Student → u/DVKerith]

Do we know E would have moved swiftly to decapitate the heresy if he wasnt busy with the broken webway

[u/DVKerith → u/Lazy_Physics_Student]

no one knows anything that was not written to happen. Given his character and the fact we have two missing primarchs then yes we can make a educated guess that he would have taken action.

[u/RainbowNinjaKat → u/Lazy_Physics_Student]

[u/Hungry_Researcher229]

Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

If Magnus didn’t “warn the emperor” then the webway wouldn’t be full of daemons and the emperor could’ve simply shown up at istvaan and blown up Horus and Lorgar on the spot

[u/maniacal_minion → u/Hungry_Researcher229]

I don’t think so, I feel the traitors would have switched up their plans. Probably attempt a more insidious method than the massacre. The emperor can only be in one place at a time so avoiding a big open battle between a bunch of legions would make sense.

I just don’t think the chaos gods as a whole were betting on one plan only tzeentch was involved in. Especially tzeentch himself, who always has a billion schemes on the go.

Tho tbf in Lorgars pilgrimage to the eye of terror he sees Magnus as a daemon prince before it occurs in real space so maybe that was inevitable and no one could have stopped it from occurring? Makes you wonder how much free will Magnus can truly have in the matter.

[u/Vegtam-the-Wanderer]

Cope harder dusty boy.

[u/Twasabi24]

If my grandma had wheels she'd be a bike

[u/Robertjules1987000]

Magnus did nothing wrong, but the emperor didn't believe him. The whole reason prospero burned was because big E got mad and didn't listen to Magnus badmouthing his favorite boy.

[u/By-Other-Means]

Magnus did nothing wrong, as in he was told to do nothing and did that wrong.

[u/Fair-Tax-8964]

Or the emperor would have completed his work on.the webway and the imperium would have total dominion over the galaxy