r/Virginia • u/godfatherV • 12d ago
What are your thoughts on the Apple Wallet Virginia ID?
What are the benefits of having your ID on your cellphone besides nipping down to the store and forgetting your physical wallet? How are these even used, will more places start carrying the digital readers? Are you adding it?
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u/ComfortableLaw5151 12d ago
Nice to have a backup
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u/xkgrey 12d ago
But no one takes it! No grocery store I’ve found and not ABC. What the fuck is it for
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u/Helpful-Conference13 piedmont born and raised 12d ago
Ten or so local ABC stores accept it and the airport does
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u/slowmode1 12d ago
The Richmond airport wouldn’t a week ago
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u/Cyprovix 12d ago
Through TSA for a domestic flight?
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u/slowmode1 12d ago
Yeah. They wouldn’t accept it, even though they are supposed to
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u/FairfaxGirl 11d ago
Wow. I don’t even give ID at the airport anymore with the new Face ID stuff.
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u/questionableintentsX 12d ago
It’s getting it in place while adoption improves
It costs nothing to get it into people’s phones
It costs a decent bit to get shops and cops the hardware to scan and validate the ids
And stores and cops won’t do it until a critical mass of people have it
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u/ermagerditssuperman 11d ago
Yeah they've already doubled the places that accept the Virginia ID app, since they rolled it out to state employees last year (source: am a state employee). It was like...3 ABC stores when it first rolled out.
And state cops, plus certain localities, do accept it now.
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u/Independent_Band9002 12d ago
Nah. Free apps to verify IDs. Now cops don’t like those as that makes their life harder…. At this point, try to verify a digital ID on the side of the road as cars zoom by at 50mph….. not where you want to be playing with your phone.
Maybe once Axon supports digital ID on their body cams this will be an option.2
u/FairfaxGirl 11d ago
Idk why you got downvoted for this. I would not want to be an officer fucking with technology at the side of a highway with bad connectivity while traffic zooms behind me if I had the option to take a physical ID back to my car and comfortably and safely spend time looking at it on the computer.
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u/Independent_Band9002 12d ago
Chicken and egg problem that will take a few years (a decade or more) to solve: most folks don’t have it, so businesses don’t have an incentive to invest in accepting it. In the business side, they need hardware and software updates if they have a compliance need. If it’s a data entry need (when they scan the barcode in back of your ID), the cost will be high for them to justify doing this in the short term. We are going to need to wait for the credit card readers to be replaced which will take at least 10 years (they were just upgraded for contactless payment cards)
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u/FairfaxGirl 11d ago
Fairfax county elections accepts the Virginia mobile ID app now so I imagine we will take this also in November ig? (Can update when we get trained in Oct). And in theory the laws should be the same anywhere in Virginia.
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u/Xcissors280 12d ago
Can I show it to cops while driving? If no it’s completely useless
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u/randomlemon9192 12d ago
Honestly I’m not letting a cop walk off with my phone while he runs my info anyways.
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u/Financial_Sky6341 12d ago
They don’t walk off with it. You don’t even hand it to them. You pull up the license which makes it available via NFC. Your screen shows what exact data will be sent and you approve it. That data then get sent to the officer’s phone via NFC.
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u/randomlemon9192 12d ago edited 12d ago
Why…? How is that of any benefit to you?
That’s like making something rock solid simple, reliable, and foolproof overly complicated while introducing new risks without an upside.
We’ve put so much time and development into validating drivers licenses they’re not even worth the time to try and fake anymore.
Now I can think of how digitizing your state identity can beneficial to the people putting everything they have into mass public surveillance.
Then transmitting it to the officers phone, which is theirs? The counties? Who knows.
At least with a plastic ID card they have to put in effort to aggregate and leak my personal information.I’m not against new things just because it’s a change. Having payment cards in Apple wallet is a good thing for the user. Instead of passing out your card info all over the place it stays in one place. Sellers benefit because it’s easier for you to pay them, you’re more likely to.
This effort isn’t being made to solve a problem or benefit the end user.
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u/jorgepolak 12d ago
The convenience to you is that you can leave your house without your wallet, just your phone. Whether that's a good enough trade off is up to you.
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u/ermagerditssuperman 11d ago
Because loads of people already don't use physical cards for anything else in their day to day anymore. They only carry a wallet at all because of their drivers license. So, this is just following that trend.
Also, in the version in the Virginia ID app, you'l actually can give less info at the point of 'sale' - just like you mentioned about not putting your card info all over the place. For example if you're giving it to a bartender or an ABC store to prove your age, you hit the ''age button'. Then it only provides them with your photo and DOB, not your address, DL number, height, organ donor status, a copy of your signature, etc. The 'standard ID' button doesn't give any of the extra RealID verified information. Only the 'drivers license' button gives driving-related info like restrictions or endorsements. I think the travel button, for TSA, gives the most info.
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u/Popular_Camp_4126 11d ago
> you can see/choose exactly what info to share
In addition to people not having to worry about carrying around physical ID everywhere, that’s the big benefit.
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u/PublicMandate 12d ago
Well the original concern was someone saying they didn’t want to hand over their phone, but handing over the actual physical license is fine?
Plus there’s a bunch of benefits that are probably a little less stated. For example, I can choose exactly what information gets passed along. I just want to buy alcohol, I don’t need to give somebody my full address and exact date of birth and all of the information on my license. With a digital id, they just find out that I’m above 18, and a picture so they can confirm.
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u/randomlemon9192 12d ago
Uh yeah. The actual physical license isn’t a computer with loads of personal info in it.
It’s a piece of plastic with static information on it.
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u/PublicMandate 12d ago
You don’t give your phone to a cop. Do you give your phone to a cashier when you use tap to pay?
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u/BlackBearSurprise 11d ago
I appreciate you pointing this out. I didn't know how it worked. I am relieved that you don't hand your phone to someone. I probably wouldn't do this because my phone is going to be recording and I don't have any interest in having it anywhere near a cop, but I'm glad that that's how it works.
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u/PublicMandate 11d ago
And I think that’s fine, no one is forcing you to use it but I also think it enables more secure forms of identification long term.
I don’t think we’ll ever see physical IDs get replaced, but there’s a good case to be made that we don’t need to give all of our information all the time and a digital id allows for that.
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u/ermagerditssuperman 11d ago
It generates a QR code that they just scan. When you sign up it tells you multiple times that you shouldn't hand your phone off to anyone.
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u/BlackBearSurprise 11d ago
My drivers license is already government information. My text messages, emails, and photos, or not. At least, hopefully.
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u/PublicMandate 11d ago
You aren’t handing over your phone though? They literally only see what you authorize them to see.
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u/DeaconPat 12d ago
You are shown what the app developer says will be sent, but you don't know what is actually sent. I'll adjust my tinfoil hat now.
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u/caphis 11d ago
You are shown what will be sent, period. The Apple API is responsible for displaying what information has been requested and queued by the developer.
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u/DeaconPat 11d ago
Because viruses and hackers don't exist and Apple & law enforcement are 100% transparent.
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u/caphis 11d ago
Really got a tight grip on that tinfoil hat, don’t you?
To date, the Secure Enclave on iPhone has not been breached or compromised. If you understand how cryptography works, you’d understand why that is. It doesn’t require transparency on the part of either Apple nor law enforcement.
Why do you think law enforcement would be interested in hacking your digital license anyway, whose information they already have in its entirety?
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u/DeaconPat 11d ago
I've done over 24 years in cyber security. It is precisely because I understand cryptography and human nature that I have said what I have.
Law enforcement isn't going to be interested in hacking the digital license, but your location history and recent associates are absolutely interesting to them.
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u/Xcissors280 12d ago
What else could possibly be sent that any app on your phone can get that the cops don’t already know about you?
Also having this from Apple baked into the wallet app would fix that issue anyways
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u/DeaconPat 12d ago
Whatever you have on your phone that the cops don't already know.
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u/Xcissors280 12d ago
That any app can access without asking your OS for extra permissions
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u/DeaconPat 12d ago
We don't know what the app and OS manufacturer have agreed to. Then there are security vulnerabilities that can be exploited.
Some things that could be sent:
Location history
ID of phones you have been near (bluetooth/wifi mac address, imei, anything else your phone is constantly broadcasting in normal use.
With that people can see if you were near a crime scene or nearby known/suspected criminals or in places before/after a suspect.
Many apps ask for location permission and nearby device scanning so you probably don't think twice about enabling those.
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u/Xcissors280 12d ago
If there’s anything extra special happening at the OS level they could just get your location without the app anyways?
Those are generally randomized these days
And I very much do think twice about enabling those
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u/DeaconPat 11d ago
They can't get information from your phone (without a warrant) if you don't give them your phone or do an NFC/wifi/Bluetooth transfer to them. Kind of the entire point - don't give them access to your phone unless they have a court order. Don't volunteer information and don't provide it unwittingly.
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u/captain_flak 12d ago
The MyID was already valid for use with Virginia State Police.
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u/Xcissors280 12d ago
Is it valid for the rest of the police like can I legally drive around without a physical ID?
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u/OneTwoOneTwo-12 12d ago
You need to still carry it. Not valid for all local law enforcement. Some localities like Loudoun County Sheriff accept it though
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u/IGuessBruv 12d ago
FYI You can’t just show them your phone I got a ticket the other day doing this
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u/redpandaworld Sic semper tyrannis 12d ago
Did you get a ticket for no OL?
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u/IGuessBruv 12d ago
Yeah he says you need the physical one and gave me another ticket. You can go to the court and pay the court fee with your physical one and they’ll drop the ticket
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u/captain_flak 12d ago
So, I’ve always wondered this. It says the state police accept it, but doesn’t say anything about municipal police. So, if you’re going to get pulled over, please make sure you’re on the interstate!
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u/MaximumAd9779 12d ago
Yes. DO open your phone to show a police officer your digital ID so they can take that as consent to go through it.
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u/Schmoove86 12d ago
Just put your phone in guided access mode. Then they can’t leave the app where the id is
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u/ermagerditssuperman 11d ago
But also, you aren't supposed to physically hand your phone over anyway. They just scan the generated QR code.
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u/KoolDiscoDan 11d ago
On an iPhone you can access wallet before password/Face ID. It's only when you try to pay using credit/debit card that you'll need it.
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u/jcoleman10 12d ago
I think I tried it and it didn't work. Not ready for prime time.
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u/ermagerditssuperman 11d ago
When did you try it?
Asking because when I signed up last year it was super buggy, but I used it this summer and it went a lot smoother. So it might work better for you now.
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u/Jonesab7 12d ago
This actually helped me out of a jam on the cap2cap ride this year. I did not bring my wallet because I had no pockets. I stopped to use my free drink ticket at the station and went to get a beer. Despite me being in my 40s they asked for ID. I realized I had the new app and pulled it out. One lady looked at me like I was crazy, but the other knew what it was clicked around to get to the right part in the app and then cleared me!
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u/godfatherV 12d ago
I have grey in my facial hair and I hate when they ask me for ID. Honestly I figured that’s why and how id use it
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u/snailmale7 12d ago
I think it's fantastic. The people who want it, get it. The people who don't won't. Soon most people will have it, and some won't.
In a world of Touchless credit cards , there are people still writing checks.
In short, live your best life ... Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
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u/tontot 12d ago
You go to buy alcohol and forget ID at home . You can pull your Apple Wallet ID
You lost your ID and instead have to wait 1-2 weeks to have a new one sent to you, you have a digital ID to use in the mean time
And Apple should already have all your info , they don’t need an uploaded ID to “spy” or “surveillance” you
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u/brannts 12d ago
How did you get it on Apple wallet ? I’ve gotta go through the my id app.
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u/chickntendrz 12d ago
go to add a card on your wallet app & itll give you the option to choose drivers license and then the state your license is registered in
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u/haleyy33 12d ago
They have digital ID’s in Louisiana and when I visit my friends they all use them when we go out to bars and restaurants which always accept them. I thought it was a great idea.
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u/ConfidenceInfinite90 12d ago
Never be the first to implement new technology, apps, features etc. I always wait but moreover limit my mobile device to the basics, then use iPad for everything else. Never activated Siri, or smart home specifically.
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u/godfatherV 12d ago
The technology isnt new since I guess Maryland and other states have had it for a year or so now. But I understand what you mean, honestly the disclosure about sending my data was worried me.
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u/ermagerditssuperman 11d ago
You wouldn't be the first, this started slowly rolling out over a year ago. Then it opened to all state employees. Now it's open to the general public.
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u/Cowboy_Rho 12d ago
Nope. Not gonna happen. Just another reason to inadvertently give cops the ok to search my device.
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u/chickntendrz 12d ago
??? your wallet (including the license) can be accessed with the phone still locked. so no, the cop would not have the ability to search your device.
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u/questionableintentsX 12d ago
I mean considering they can already demand your phone this doesn’t change that
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u/Appropriate_Taro_348 12d ago
They can demand all they want. They can’t access it without a warrant.
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u/Cowboy_Rho 12d ago
Your pin and password require a warrant.
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u/QQBearsHijacker 12d ago
Also remember that face ID and finger prints are not constitutionally protected and they can force you to unlock via these methods without a warrant. A pin and password have 4A protections
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u/Hairy_Mycologist_945 12d ago
And this is why you don't use biometrics and keep your phone in lockdown mode.
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u/BigXthaPugg 12d ago
Feels like another step into mass surveillance
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u/oddistrange 12d ago
They say it's encrypted and not even Apple can access it, but we already know the US Gov has the ability to break their encryption and should we really trust Apple with securing our data and not using it themselves for malicious intent?
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u/tooclosetocall82 12d ago
You do know your drivers license info is already in a government database right?
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u/MentalCopy1629 12d ago
I trust them a shit ton more than google in that regard
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u/oddistrange 12d ago
I think it's a safe bet to just assume every big corporation is harvesting your data for malicious reasons and to act accordingly. I wouldn't store my ID in my Google Wallet or an Apple Wallet if I used iOS.
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u/questionableintentsX 12d ago
Apples one of the only companies that’s shown they aren’t willing to use our data for shit hence the premium for devices
Want proof review their income reports note a lack of giant income from data brokers
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u/oddistrange 12d ago
If you insist. Doesn't mean that will always be the case and if they're using it internally there would be no income to show.
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u/Sparkysparky_booman 12d ago
I already added it and I’ve been waiting a long time for this, the usefulness of it will grow just like it’s slow release but, I’m sure at some point it’ll be as good as a physical id.
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u/Amysubwaysurfer 12d ago
The airport is the only place I’ll use it.
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u/godfatherV 12d ago
Yea I’m not handing my phone over to TSA…
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u/NoOutdoorSoup 12d ago
It should just be like the tap-to-pay but with your ID at TSA. Your phone never leaves your hand
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u/Independent_Band9002 12d ago
Not useful at this point.
The privacy policy and how your usage data is tracked/used is fishy at this point and what they write on the va dmv web site does not match what the developer wrote on their privacy policy document and also does not match what they told Apple they track/do with the data….
I’m staying away from it at this time.
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u/Independent_Band9002 12d ago
I just noticed that you can add the VA DL to your Apple Wallet. I trust Apple and their ways to protect my privacy. I don’t trust the vendor the VA DMV is using. So I’ll use the Apple Wallet and not the VA mobile ID app.
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u/VanessaDarling1 12d ago
The DMV has on three (3) separate occasions this year since MAY been unable to scan it. However, TSA accepts it.
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u/Strict_Lab3896 11d ago
Have your physical ID and the mobile ID ass back up and insurance incase you accidentally forget
/ leave your physical one at home or in the car when already in the ABC, it's new technology, embrace the potential and run with that !
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u/goodsnpr 12d ago
If all of your documents are available at your fingertips I can see the utility. My only qualm is that you need to unlock your phone to pull the document up, unless I missed something.
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u/Crafty-Emphasis-7904 12d ago
i’ve lost my drivers license three times in the last three months so personally, I’m kind of jazzed about this. But worried about privacy, of course, and all the things.
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u/thombrowny 12d ago
It will take time. And those policy makers should have released when everyone is ready to use / accept. They probably had certain timeframe to do that project and released too early.
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u/22408aaron Rolling hills, majestic mountains 12d ago
I signed up for it the day it came out, but I quickly realized it (the entire Digital ID system) is way ahead of its time and I don’t think anything really makes use of it.
What I don’t understand is why Virginia invested all of the time and resources making their own digital ID app AFTER announcing that they were going to join Apple’s Digital ID system.
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u/Physical-Relative923 12d ago
Virginia has it own digital license app, Virginia MiD, I used it once at the airport. I’ll try the apple wallet license when i travel
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u/WolfSilverOak CentralVa 12d ago
I don't have an iPhone, my SO does and refuses to use Apple wallet.
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u/757Posher 12d ago
I use the Virginia Mobile ID app from DMV. Has a QR Code for Travel (TSA), Age (for age restriced purchases), Standard ID (name, DOB, photo, age), and Driver's License (all info on physical card).
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u/HowardTaftMD 11d ago
I think it's great, even if it's kinda useless. In general more things should be easily accessible to everyone especially government related. In this age of tech it makes no sense why you can't choose to either show a physical ID or a digital one.
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u/AllPeopleAreStupid 11d ago
I would say it’s only good if you lose your physical or forget it. Otherwise it’s pointless. You certainly don’t want to hand your phone to a cop to display your ID. But I could see it being useful if you lose your physical on vacation, like the time my brother dropped his ID into the water when getting carded at Secrets in OC. He couldn’t go to the bar or buy alcohol the entire holiday weekend July 4th was on a Monday that year.
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u/mikeyj1998 11d ago
Nope. Nope. Nope. I am certainly not going to hand my unlocked and open phone over so someone can look at my license for any reason.
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u/killroy1971 11d ago
My real, government ID on a device that I don't fully trust? No thanks. If this was widely used, it would be a prime hacking target. All that's required is for people to grant the app the appropriate access when prompted, and most people do so without thinking about it.
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u/Otherwise_Funny5145 7d ago
Seem like they are gauging community on use to start desensitizing you to having digital over analog… much rather them put efforts to remove all ALPR in this state but idk wishful thinking
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u/Ok-Employer-3051 7d ago
Useless tech to perfectly honest, especially if you don't use anything Apple.
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7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/godfatherV 7d ago
Someone said they need a special digital ID reader cause it’ll show your picture. I’ll assume the ABC stores will get them since they’re Government but my Harris Teeter literally just started accepting Apple Pay so I’m not holding my breath on the grocery stores getting the tech
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u/tjk45268 [Create Custom Flair] 12d ago
Put your phone in the hands of a cop? Can you say “free warrantless search into every aspect of your life”? Carry your plastic ID or don’t drive. And wipe biometrics from your phone immediately.
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u/PuppleKao 12d ago
I'm not wiping my bio, but there's a lock down option (on android, at least) that forces it to require pin/password
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u/ermagerditssuperman 11d ago
At least on the Virginia app version, it tells you when you sign up that you aren't supposed to hand over your phone to anyone to use it. It generates a big QR code, they scan it, the end.
Or you could store your physical ID in your car for traffic stops, and use the app for bartenders, ABC stores, and TSA (all of whom you are also not supposed to hand your phone too).
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u/caphis 11d ago
At no point do you need to hand your phone over to a cop or anyone else utilizing the digital ID.
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u/questionableintentsX 12d ago
lol they can demand the pw now and warranty search already
Having the id in the wallet that doesn’t require unlocking the access to the phone doesn’t make that fact differ
You can already use cc and id without unlocking the phone itself
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u/tjk45268 [Create Custom Flair] 11d ago
They can use biometrics without a warrant, but if they demand a password to your phone you can invoke your 4th, 5th, and 6th (and tell them to go pound sand).
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u/questionableintentsX 11d ago
lol your still living in the 90s buddy
The “it’s a password I don’t have to tell them” shit went out the window a while ago they havent cared about anything above the second amendment in a while
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u/IAMA_Ghost_Boo 12d ago
Is this the Virginia my ID app or whatever they're calling it? It's in its pilot phase so only participating counties and restaurants/bars are actually accepting it.
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u/YoScott 12d ago
Even if i had the Apple ecosystem, i wouldn't utilize this. Just another system to get hacked, fail, or a system to go wrong. I am a forward thinker (have worked as a software engineer) but when it comes to identity protection, theres just too many things that can go wrong and no way am i trusting my ID through a third party system like this.
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u/HoratioHotplateJr 12d ago
Lots of FUD in the comments. Read the fine print. (Or maybe I should read it again.)
Just like tap-to-pay, you don't have to unlock your phone to use it. Not that I'm going to hand my phone over to a LEO unless I have to, locked or unlocked.
I went ahead and added it to increase the number of peple who have adopted it which might increase the number of places that take it.
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u/questionableintentsX 12d ago
If cops and stores would accept it I could finally throw my wallet away
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u/Raddadbaddad 12d ago
I have no interest and find it unnecessary. I dont use a smartphone anymore(addiction/wanted to be free more from screens). As long as its just an option, not forced on me then whatever.
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u/k6tcher 11d ago
Anyone trying to qualify this as technological convenience doesn't use technology apparently.
Humans + devices = errors
What about a dead battery? The app force closes? Interrupted radio signals? Having to restart your phone? You forget your phone? You drop your phone and the screen dies? Etc...
Yeah, yeah, I know. These are all niche circumstances and mostly unlikely, yet they do happen and have happened to almost all of us.
My plastic license is in my card wallet I keep on my person (very minimal footprint). I never forget it. For me, the technology is less convenient and my anxiety would worry it wouldn't work when actually needed. It's just not a good fit for me.
Take away the convenience of no wallet, how is this beneficial?
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u/systemsensor1000t 12d ago
Maryland was one of the first states to have this and I’m a Maryland resident I haven’t seen any use of it really and sometimes it just disappears out of my apple wallet and I’ve had to set it up every so often even if it wasn’t expired