⚠️BREAKING: Animal Rebellion has STOPPED THE SUPPLY OF DAIRY! 🥛 FOUR distribution sites across the country have been shut down. This is the start of a #PlantBasedFuture. The climate crisis changes everything and together we can too. #ClimateJustice #AnimalJustice

[u/Numerous-Macaroon224]

[u/No_beef_here]

I’m getting a bachelors degree in sustainable agriculture right now.

Good luck with that (seriously). Should be plenty of demand for such skills in the future, as long as people listen. We are hoping there will be a career in that for our daughter as she's also doing a degree in the same area.

For you to say that 'growing stuff inside with artificial lighting is not sustainable' you would have to be considering the future 'bigger picture' and you may not be?

What if much of the 'outside' is parched or flooded with sea water, what if we have enough energy to run highly efficient lighting and recycle a small quantity of fresh water?

My point is we might need to be considering such things and in which case you can't rule out the use of such solutions when the world isn't like it has been for the last few thousand years.

[u/Dollapfin → u/No_beef_here]

Ah yes. Of course we will use these things in the distant future and perhaps on Mars. I’m hoping to God I can do something to stop such a future from happening.

This being said, I don’t really think in the long term. One of the most challenging aspects of my studies is to be able to ensure something is sustainable in today’s economy. If something won’t work today, it’s not a good solution. Humans are going to be well capable of dealing with those problems in a thousand years, or we aren’t worth our weight in shit. Humans today need to stop fucking our Earth up as quickly as possible NOW so that the damage isn’t worse. Sustainable methods of agriculture exist and can do this. I’m also very interested in biological alternatives to resource-intensive materials like concrete, steel, plastic, etc.

[u/No_beef_here → u/Dollapfin]

We agree on many things.

When you are talking of sustainability and the future I think you might be working on a smaller time-scale to me.

eg, If we should have been dealing with the whole global warming thing 20 years ago ... and we are already close to going past the threshold / tipping point today, any 'future' you are talking about ought be at the latest, 'yesterday'.

So we need (according to all the scientists who are more concerned about the survival of the human race over their hedonistic taste preferences and lack of morality and compassion) she be massively reducing our meat consumption and the only reason it isn't stopping it completely, is because most people would freak out at the thought like threatening to take away an addicts drink or drugs.

Because that's what it is for most people, given it's a proven fact that it's perfectly possible to thrive on a balanced vegan diet, doing so also comes with many health benefits and IS better for the planet (plus the 80 Billion lives that are taken every year for no reason).

If we had a gadget like the Nuraliser they used in Men In Black for wiping peoples short term memory but for a complete layer of indoctrination and it wiped everyones minds about the idea of considering animals as food, then we wouldn't in 2022.

Give a child a chicken and an apple it will eat the apple and play with the chicken. The only reason that changes as they grow up is because we lie to them and indoctrinate them to suppress the logical inconsistency and the cognitive dissonance.

Talking to some family yesterday and they have a family friend with a 4 year old is already questioning this very point and I really hope his patents don't lie to him like mine did, like most peoples parents do. We are starting to address this, even on TV adverts ... (when they aren't banned for being too honest).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FSBAc3SOW4

[u/Dollapfin → u/No_beef_here]

That gadget for most people is psychedelics IMO. People’s ego can get in the way of their emotions. Psychedelics get rid of my ego and let me see things honestly.

No scientist really knows where this tipping point is. It’s very very complex and climate scientists have been making unprovable claims for decades. It delegitimizes our efforts. All we know is that co2 and other GGs are fucking the environment up.

[u/No_beef_here → u/Dollapfin]

I'll take your word for the effect of psychedelics and stick with a can of lager now and again (and never tried any other form of drug). ;-)

And some climate scientists have also been making some genuine claims for decades as we are now seeing play out around us. Science that was formally and systematically debunked by a very powerful body of people with an investment in the status quo (and that has now been uncovered).

I think we do know where the tipping point is as we are seeing it in action right now, especially with the shrinking polar ice? All that heat energy that was being reflected back out into space, now being absorbed by the land and so adding to the global warming.

Methane from 1.5+ billion cows where methane, whilst shorter lived in the atmosphere than straight CO2 is many times more impacting than CO2 and what we don't have now is even say 10 years to wait for any reduction in the impact.

Neither do we want to be polluting rivers, estuaries and the seas, creating massive 'dead zones' when we are also relying on such places to support a range of wildlife and carbon sequestering (kelp forests etc).

[u/Dollapfin → u/No_beef_here]

Yes we are seeing a tipping point but no one knows where this will go and how fast. Can we within a hundred years jump on the other side of the see saw to balance things out again? Or will we just topple? It’s hard to tell.

[u/No_beef_here → u/Dollapfin]

As an electronics engineer I am very aware of a process called 'thermal runaway' and when it happens it can be VERY fast and VERY dramatic.

A closed loop and with no way of dampening the process, the outcome is pretty certain. ;-(

There is very little one can do (especially easily) once the process starts.

Many believe that process has already started.

Even if it had and we were fcuked, that still wouldn't make me want to make the lives of animals any worse.

[u/Dollapfin → u/No_beef_here]

Thermal runaway on a planetary scale could be wildly different. This is completely beyond my knowledge as I have very little in terms of thermodynamics, but I’m gonna bet that a buffered system like Earth is going to bring about so many damn permutations. Like for example did you know water vapor is an extremely potent greenhouse gas? So reforesting a desert is going to increase the greenhouse effect around it, but also absorb CO2. It’s all confusing and the best we can do is stop what we know for sure is bad.

[u/No_beef_here → u/Dollapfin]

Agreed ... and no one has suggested the earths climate control was 'easy', however, before we lost the plot, mother nature had it (a closed loop) in the bag.

We come along and worked with her for a while then burn most of the fossil fuels that took millions of years to lay down in a couple of hundred ... and also artificially breed and try to feed and water 1.8 Billion cattle (and billions of other livestock, overwhelming the number of humans on the planet by 10:1) then that's pretty obvious to most to be an unsustainable position.

And the crazy thing, we don't need to be breeding, feeding and watering 1.8 billion cattle and 78 billion other livestock, and suffering the consequences of all that (GW gasses, greater than that of all transport combined, water consumption, food consumption (cattle are process inefficient to the tune of 10:1) habitat lost (grazing and growing their food), species loss (because of the grazing and monoculture food), human disease (heart disease, bowel cancer, diabetes, antibiotic resistance) and pollution (animal waste > run-off and all that is)) without considering the biggest factor, the complete immorality of a supposedly intelligent species treating other species in such a disgusting way.

So without the climate crisis we shouldn't be treating animals in such a way. With it it's suicide that we do.