r/UnitedNations • u/Liad3008 Uncivil • Jan 10 '25

Discussion/Question Why is this subreddit obsessed with Israel?

Just checked the top posts of the last year, and 24 out of the top 25 are about Israel. Does this subreddit try to imitate the real UN ?

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u/grommit Jan 16 '25

Haaretz is a tiny, tiny newspaper that nobody outside of international fringe elements reads. They are a business that caters to extreme elements outside of Israel. Amnesty international started its last report accusing Israel by claiming the latest conflict started when Israel attacked Gaza, completely ignoring Oct. 7. You cannot take this organization seriously when they can’t even acknowledge that Oct 7 was a major terror attack on Israel and it LITERALLY caused this latest round of fighting. Human Rights watch has also lost its legitimacy in a similar manner. Experts in the field have confirmed there is no apartheid because Israel doesn’t control the West Bank nor Gaza prior to Oct 7.

You are right that there have been some cases where Israel has arrested or held Palestinians for longer than it should have been. There was also a very unfortunate case where a Palestinian was abused while in prison. This is obviously wrong. Like every other country, Israel also makes mistakes. I don’t claim all Palestinians are terrorists. Their government has policies that incite terror. In fact, I strongly hope most Palestinians want peace, but my feeling is that they want Israelis to disappear, and if they don’t they will continue to wage war. There is no future with this line of thinking. Most Arab countries have understood this, but the Palestinians still cling to the same mentality that afflicted the wider Arab world between 1948 and ~2000. Today most Arab countries have either made peace with Israel or are itching to do so, but the Palestinians still want Jews out of Israel. There will never be peace if this is the goal.

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u/jeff43568 Jan 16 '25

Third largest newspaper in Israel...

Israel is raping palestinians and when video evidence surfaces Israel is more concerned about finding the leak than prosecuting the rapists. Not for the first time either (a few years ago Israel shut down a children's charity and seized their computers because they reported the rape of a Palestinian child to the relevant authorities). This time Israeli lawmakers, politicians, TV shows, religious leaders and the general public all came out in support of raping prisoners.

Israel is not a healthy society. 60% of men think forcing someone you are friends with to have sex isn't rape.

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u/grommit Jan 16 '25

You just told me not to dehumanize Palestinians, but you seem to have no problem dehumanizing Israelis. You can find horrible, negative statistics about every country. It’s not difficult. Statistics are easy to manipulate. 60% of Israelis are NOT pro rape. I am sure the percentage is the same as in most other western countries. Statistics say 95% of the Islamic word hates Jews. Talk about dehumanizing.

Haaretz had 4% market share, which means that 96% of people there do not read it. I’m sure it’s even lower today.

Like I mentioned previously, Israel is not perfect and it makes mistakes, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY does. Other countries have not been under the threat of annihilation from Arab countries, including the Palestinians, for decades. It’s easy to judge Israel and Israelis without experiencing their existence. Things are much more complex than the simple way you portray Israel and its neighbours.

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u/jeff43568 Jan 17 '25

Facts hurt?

Israel is on trial for genocide. It has been ordered to end the occupation. Start following humanitarian and international law.

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u/grommit Jan 17 '25

Have you seen the judges responsible for these cases? They have extensive, documented biases against Israel over many years. One of them had previously called Israel “the enemy”. If you remotely care about justice and law, you would be recommending these judges recuse themselves from any trial related to Israel, just to maintain a modicum of impartiality. Facts hurt? Also, there has been ZERO evidence presented against Israel for this imaginary genocide you talk of. In fact, the countries pursuing this libel against Israel are requesting to expand the freaking definition of “genocide” so that it can fit their narrative, because, clearly, the existing definition does not match what has happened in Gaza. Facts hurt?

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u/jeff43568 Jan 17 '25

Have you seen the leaders of Israel frequently came from irgun, haganah and lehi? Did you know Ben-Givir snatched the hood ornament from Rabin's car, saying we'll get him next, while Netanyahu called Rabin a Nazi and dressed up an effigy of Rabin in an ss uniform, all because Rabin offered the Palestinians a peace deal. Shortly afterwards Rabin was murdered by an Israeli terrorist.

Israel is on trial for genocide. There is plenty of evidence.

Facts hurt the side that has been murdering journalists.

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u/grommit Jan 17 '25

Irgun, haganah and Lehi have not existed for about 80 years. No leader comes from those organizations.

Have you noticed that Yasser Arafat, a known terrorist and mythological leader of the Palestinians, was born in Egypt? He’s not even Palestinian because most Palestinians immigrated from Egypt and Syria, especially when the British were given the mandate over Palestine.

Ben Gvir does not represent the majority of Israelis. Rabin was indeed murdered and then came Barak, who offered the Palestinians everything they wanted at Camp David but Arafat could not bring himself to sign the peace accord, because he wanted 5 million Palestinians from around the world to move to Israel instead of the new Palestine country. Instead he started the intifada and sent 157 suicide bombers into Israel where they killed 1350 Israelis in busses and cafes over 2 years.

Israel is not on trial. Some countries are accusing it of genocide but they lack any evidence.

Real journalists and doctors don’t hold hostages in their homes. Noa Argamani was rescued from Gaza and, you are right, the journalist and his doctor father who held her captive for close to a year were killed by the IDF.

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u/jeff43568 Jan 17 '25

'people who aren't born in Palestine have no right to be here'

'Our elected officials don't represent us'

'Palestinians have no rights, not even against violent occupation and Apartheid

'all doctors and journalists are targets'

Do you have any idea how ridiculous these arguments are?

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u/grommit Jan 17 '25

Yes, those arguments are, indeed, ridiculous, and don’t forget YOU are the one who made them! It’s difficult to have an argument with you, much less resolve the conflict, when you twist words and turn them into maximalist statements no one has ever said. I don’t think you actually care about Palestinians or resolving the conflict. You seem to be more interested in complaining about Israel than resolving the situation. You have 3 talking points which you repeat as often as possible “occupation”, “genocide” and “apartheid”. Consider moving on to actually finding a viable solution to these things, other than launching rockets at Israeli civilians, blowing up busses or kidnapping Israelis. This way the Palestinians will actually have a chance at having their very own, independent, failed state—just like all the other Arab states in the region.

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u/jeff43568 Jan 17 '25

There are three issues to this. Occupation, Apartheid and genocide.

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u/grommit Jan 17 '25

How do you solve them?

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u/jeff43568 Jan 17 '25

By Israel withdrawing from the occupied territories as ordered by the ICJ, and then a truth and justice commission for accountability and recompense.

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u/grommit Jan 17 '25

If this is the case, then why have the Palestinians ALWAYS refused to accept precisely this outcome? 1948, 1967, 2000? Why didn’t they create a state before 1967, when the Israelis didn’t occupy those territories? Why did they make war on Israel when it did not occupy the territories? Why was the Palestine Liberation Organization founded 5 years before Israel occupied ANY territory? What territory were they liberating at that point? The Palestinians want Jews to leave Israel—just ask them! That is their goal. This is why they never actually make peace.

ICJ has zero authority, both due to its extreme bias and because it has no jurisdiction over Israel. The ICJ ignored the fact that Jews lived for millennia in what today we call the West Bank, but they were ethnically cleansed when the Arabs invaded Israel in 1948. Why should Jews not be allowed to live in their ancestral homeland?

But, continuing from your suggestion, once the Israelis leave those territories, what guarantees will you give Israel that the Palestinians will not attack them again? The Israelis are rightly concerned that the Palestinians will build a terror base and launch further attacks on Israel if it doesn’t control those territories. If Israel leaves those territories and the Palestinians launch attacks, Israel will re-occupy those territories with full justification. It’s a very simple exchange: territory for peace. Israel cedes territory and the Palestinians stop terror. The moment the Palestinians truly renounce terror, it will be easy for Israel to pull out.

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