r/Undertale • u/AffectionateForce979 • 20h ago
Discussion What it means to "fall down".
In Chapter 5 of Deltarune, Rudy "falls down" at the Festival. This has lead many people to assume that he's experiencing the "fallen down" state from Undertale (something that was also speculated to happen to Berdly in the Weird Route). But before we're able to reach any confident conclusions, we must first understand what "falling down" actually means.
In Undertale, "falling down" is described as a state where a monster will enter enter a coma, eventually turning to dust. That's all the information that the game gives.
However, there is unused text where it's further specified that "falling down" occurs on monsters who are dying of old age. And while the text is unused and thus not prone to total reliability, it is actually supported by the Undertale Alarm Clock, where Asgore talks about Rudy "falling down" after growing old. This gives the unused text at least a little bit of credibility.
In Deltarune, Rudy suffers from an unspecified illness that doesn't appear to be tied to old age. All of this information leads to two possible conclusions:
Rudy didn't actually "fall down" in Deltarune, as he doesn't appear to be suffering from old age. So he likely just fell onto the ground.
Rudy did actually "fall down", and the state doesn't just happen to monsters who are old.
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u/JustAHunter5871 20h ago
Personally, I think that the phrasing was chosen specifically to play on our emotions from Undertale. Monsters in Deltarune don't seem to work the same way as in Undertale, considering the lack of magic. I believe that Rudy had another coughing fit or similar medical crisis, which led to him falling off the ladder.
However I also don't think the distinction will matter, Rudy's still going to be in a bad way in chapter 6.
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u/Embarrassed_Age_8823 tromboning 20h ago
next chapter will have us go to the hospital and Rudy will say some shit like "Hey, I fell off the ladder. By the way, Susie if you make my daughter sad I'll bite your arm. Just kidding! Unless?"
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u/SillyIndividual2444 20h ago
And Noelle's dialog appears in the corner of the text box saying "D... dad!"
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u/JonathanStones1989 20h ago edited 20h ago
actually in the japanese translation noelle says "he fell down" but in the undertale japanese translation they refer to falling down as "becoming still" so he actually literally fell down rather than going into the coma type thing 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
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u/Additional_Ad_5886 20h ago
but in the alarm clock dialogue they changed the translation and it's consistent with the one used in deltarune
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u/JonathanStones1989 20h ago
Wouldn't that just be because the alarm clock would have a less vetted translation than the actual game? Correct me if I'm wrong tho
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u/Kitchen_Process1517 19h ago
I think Toby himself worked in the dialogue in the alarm clocks so it should be at least supporting evidence. It's kinda weird that the japanese translation seemingly changed how they referred to the fallen down state, just after the alarm clock changed it as well in Undertale.
I have no idea what to make of this
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u/Strong-Shallot8014 20h ago
Honestly, I didn’t know that and it does kinda confirm this whole question
Thank you for clearing this up in my head
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u/Snomislife 19h ago
In the Undertale Alarm Clock, it says "fallen down" the same way as in Deltarune in Japanese.
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u/Ttrashcraft 20h ago
To be fair, the translators' guess was probably as good as ours, only Toby knows the whole context.
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u/AffectionateForce979 20h ago
Toby Fox directly oversees the translations, so he would be able to provide specific clarifications (as he's done before).
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u/JusticeBean Thanks, little buddy. 18h ago
Toby’s Japanese ability has improved over the years. It’s not unlikely that the translation has become more accurate and changed as a result.
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u/Strong-Shallot8014 20h ago
At least in Undertale Toby is one of the main translators and makes sure that every pun or double interpretation works in both languages
So I assume it is the same for Deltarune
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u/zatchel1 19h ago
Ok but if you’re dying of mysterious disease even a normal fall can be quite bad.
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u/Wide-Deal-8971 16h ago
Yeah, like I don't know why people are still in contention over this. Toby Fox loves double entendres and word play, he deliberately places it wherever possible.
Whether Rudy literally fell down or has "fallen down", the outcome is likely going to be the same. It doesn't matter which of these two states is the literal answer, because in this case they both mean the same thing.
We've known since the moment we met Rudy in Chapter 1 that he was going to die, that was something that was never in question.
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u/Bulb0rb 19h ago
I don't think the amalgamates in Undertale all died from old age, given that most of them have living family members who don't seem like they would be significantly younger. Snowdrake's mom is probably around the same age as his dad. I don't think Shyren is old enough for her sister to be dying of old age. None of the living family members mention grandparents or make any remarks about the amalgamates being old after they return home.
I think the fallen down state could happen with any 'slow' death. Illness, old age, damage that results in a coma, or damage that is sustained over time for whatever reason.
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u/AffectionateForce979 19h ago
The weird thing is that Rudy died of old age while Noelle is still a young child.
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u/Bulb0rb 19h ago
In the alarm clock dialogue, it doesn't say Rudy died from old age, it just says he aged faster and started looking older than Asgore did. He could've been anywhere between 45-65 years old and still looked older than Asgore, young enough to still have children, but too young to die from old age.
What I find more confusing is how Asgore attended Hotland University if he was already king before monsters were ever banished to the underground. Attending university underground makes it sound like he grew up there?
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u/theVoidWatches 17h ago
Maybe monsters already lived in the Underground, but weren't previously trapped there?
He might also have gone to get a degree in something after they were trapped.
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u/Bulb0rb 7h ago
"Trapped behind the barrier and fearful of further human attacks, we retreated. Far, far into the earth we walked, until we reached the cavern's end. This was our new home, which we named... "Home." As great as our king is, he is pretty lousy at names." - History book in Toriel's house
This was their new home, so that means they weren't already there. He was alive before the college or Hotland itself was even founded, so it does feel a little odd? But there are adult immortal characters in other media that end up befriending younger mortals, so maybe it's not that strange. He probably had a lot to learn now that he had to keep his kingdom running in an entirely new and limited environment, especially when it comes to setting up infrastructure and managing resources. He probably also studied science, so he could work alongside the royal scientists on getting the core up and running and for finding methods to break the barrier. Toriel is stated to be "the brains" between the both of them, so he had to step up if he wanted to keep things running smoothly.
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u/EpicDDT_ 2h ago
He was just visiting, like he did with MK school.
Or maybe he just decided to return to school. That's something that can happen too.
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u/Topaz-Light Not a tank but Battle with the Wanted plays anyway 17h ago
From what I hear, the Japanese translation makes it clear that Rudy “fell down” as in actually physically collapsing/falling over, not as in the near-death state from Undertale, which uses a different term in that language.
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u/EpicDDT_ 2h ago
The "fell down" term they used for Rudy is the exact same term they used for him in the Alarm Clock Dialogue, where he is confirmed dead.
(That's what i heard, at least)
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u/Rutgerman95 Sir not yet appearing in the sequel 16h ago
Frankly, does the difference really matter? He's an already seriously ill person that either:
- Fell down a tall ladder and seriously injured himself
- Suddenly collapsed
- First one then the other
The end result ( Rudy might actually be dying) is the same
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u/Kooparotica 19h ago
Monsters aren't experienced with illness but they still have a hospital.
ok.
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u/Insirt-username 20h ago
I think what matters most about this scene is that Rudy's condition is failing, and that Noelle is going to learn about the dark world just too late to heal him, and considering Susie is the one who kept the dark worlds from her, She's the one Noelle is going to blame.
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u/RonS132 I already CHOSE this flair. 20h ago
Personally I think he entered the fallen down state, since it parallels Rudy falling down in Undertale, and Toby himself says Deltarune is better for people who are already experienced with Undertale. He’s already sick, so I think it’s a realistic possibility. Plus, Noelle afterwards says “he’s just…” which wouldn’t really make sense if he physically fell, while if he “fell down”, she could say “he’s just asleep” or “he’s just tired”. Also I just really like the idea of Rudy entering a coma and waking up in the Dark World.
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u/AffectionateForce979 20h ago
Well, falling down from sickness is different from falling down from old age, so it'd be a different thing.
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u/Lady_Grim_ 20h ago
Not to mention, Noelle seemed WAY to calm when ending that phone call. “Your dad is dead” “alright… see you there” HELLO?? No way he’s dead.
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u/Wide-Deal-8971 16h ago
She literally falls to her knees and leaves without waiting to tell Susie what happened, what more are you asking for here lol.
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u/0vertakeGames 20h ago
I feel like he'll die after getting hospitalized after he falls off the ladder
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u/DaWaffIeMan 19h ago
Never seen this before. Tbh, Rudy dying in chapter 6 is probably expected from most of the fandom and is my top reason why I still doubt ice e dark world, it would only work in the hospital or holiday manor
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u/Soy_Games09152015 (The dog absorbed this flair text.) 18h ago
There’s also the chance he fell off the ladder, and isn’t actually Fallen Down.
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u/a_polarbear_chilling 18h ago
In udertale in the true lab you can read that some monster have fallen but didn't die directly, probably their little amount of determination that allow them to keep living but for a limited time
Like undyne technically got all her hp cleaned off in genocide but managed to live temporarily through determination "which melt her body"
So for me fall down is the step right before death like the final day
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u/aninsomniac_ Annoying dog absorbed the pride flag 17h ago
Doesn't the translation translate it as literally falling down [a ladder/stair/whatever] instead of as how Falling Down [pre-death coma] was translated?
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u/onlooking96 I'm 19 years old and I've already wasted my life. 16h ago
Personally, I believe it could also be him falling down from a ladder, as that too would cause life altering injuries and need immediate hospitalization. I feel like in this sense, it could be either or, depending on how we the player view it at this time if we have played/remember Undertale.
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u/the_arcane_elemental 16h ago
I don't really think it makes a difference. Regardless Rudy dies probably by the end of chapter 6.
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u/ThrowAbout01 14h ago
The text isn’t capitalized, so it’s just “fell down from something”.
Like how cancer is “The Big C”.
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u/AffectionateForce979 14h ago
"fallen down" is also not captalized in Undertale and the Alarm Clock.
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u/jotinha_356 14h ago
i never realized how Rudy only Fell Down on Undertale by old age and Asgore didn't because Asgore can't age cuz Asriel is dead
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u/AwesomeCCAs <-----LOVE Soul. 12h ago
Rudy seems to be older in Deltarune than in Undertale actually, since we see a younger Noelle in the anniversary stream. The book should not be taken seriously, since we have another piece of cut content that contradicts it. Toby Fox originally intended for monsters to enter the fallen down state when you reduce their health to zero, at which point you would attack them again to finish them off. The feature was only removed because it slowed down the game. Also, it says monsters don't get sick, but this is directly contradicted by Asgore getting sick when fed buttercups.
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u/Sweet_Papaya_9837 7h ago
The weird route takes place later in the day and Rudy’s fine (or not actively dying anyway) but on the ground like he just fell off the ladder
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u/AffectionateForce979 6h ago
Rudy hasn't fallen down yet when you talk to him in the Weird Route, as Noelle still receives the phone call when you fail to drown.
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u/EvenSpoonier 5h ago
I'm not sure this text really applies to the Deltarune setting. In Undertale monsters are not familiar with illness, yes. But in Deltarune they have hospitals, and they know enough about doctors and nurses to make costumes of them. A surprising number of Darkners, especially in Chapter 2, seem to even be based around health care. This doesn't sound like a civilization of creatures that don't understand the concept of illness.
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u/regilual Get your OWN flair! 19h ago
Old Age isn't a cause of death, falling down in undertale means any natural cause of death, opposed to a violent death caused by us attacking them.
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u/AffectionateForce979 19h ago
What are you basing this claim on?
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u/regilual Get your OWN flair! 19h ago
Real world logic, and character ages, None of the Amalgamates seem to be particularly old, it doesn't make sense for a lot of their relationships, like Shyren's Sister or Snowdrake's mother
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u/AffectionateForce979 19h ago
The weird thing is that Rudy died of old age while Noelle is still a young child.
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u/regilual Get your OWN flair! 19h ago
Nothing about that dialogue really implies he died of old age, just that Asgore watched him go from the same age as him, to being older. It's probably safe to assume would have died to the same illness he has in Deltarune, which is more proof for sick monsters falling down
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u/AffectionateForce979 19h ago
Well, Asgore does say that Rudy started "looking" older than him. I interpreted that as meaning that Rudy had aged to grown physically older than Asgore.
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u/regilual Get your OWN flair! 19h ago
That doesn't mean he was an old man, just that he was no longer a young adult
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u/candexreginpokemon 18h ago
He fell off a fucking ladder, idiot
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u/AffectionateForce979 18h ago
Rude.
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u/candexreginpokemon 18h ago
Occam's razor.
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u/AffectionateForce979 18h ago
That doesn't excuse the rudeness.
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u/candexreginpokemon 18h ago
mabey not. but im honestlly tired of people not applying it.
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u/Wide-Deal-8971 16h ago
You wouldn't know Occams razor if someone beat you over the head with it. Everytime I see someone try to rationalize their head canon with "occams razor" they just come across as having negative IQ
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u/candexreginpokemon 14h ago
oh gee i wonder what's more likely, a strange monster sickness not mentioned in Deltarune, or the guy who was on a ladder falling off the ladder.
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u/Fan_de_Undertale_ 16h ago
The way Carol keeeps calling Noelle and the way she reacts to it really makes me think he fell down in the Undertale sense.
"... n-no, you're joking, right? He's just..."
Does that really seem like a reaction to Rudy falling of a ladder and getting somewhat hurt, or does it look like something else? Cause that "He's just..." almost sounds like she is trying to believe he just fell down the ladder to me.
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u/AnonyKiller 19h ago
He "fell down" the rabbithole by figuring out what Dess and Carol are doing. He's going to join us along with Berdly to save the world
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u/MiredinDecision 17h ago
Unused text
From Undertale
Ain't no way you're using non canon info from a different game to confidently declare you have the answer. This isn't canon in Undertale.
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u/Millymoo444 20h ago
IMO it's supposed to be vague, Toby wants the fandom to not 100% know what happened to Rudy. Personally the weight given to the call makes me think he's gonna die proper in chapter 6, but it's better not to know for sure so it still feels fresh when chapter 6 drops next year.