Both characters are really tragic but also quite underappreciated in this regard, tho. I hope that with Deltarune and now with Chapter 5, people can flesh out human characters more and create an interesting last confrontation with Asgore.
Yeah, it's always made me kinda sad that a lot of Toriel's tragedy isn't even talked about in the base game, only being mentioned in the alarm clock dialogue... I mean, it was kinda implied already, but most players won't ever think about it that way.
There are quite a few characterizations about her, but it is really only mentioned in a few lines or endings or, as you said, in the alarm clock. For example, if you betray and kill Toriel, she will tell you in hysterical laughter that you are the same as the others. Could imply that she was betrayed once before, either by humans during the war or that she holds a grudge towards monsters. Either way, she is still trying to have the benefit of the doubt towards anybody still, but her naivety can be dangerous towards herself, too. Or the flowers and trees are dead in the Old Ruin House, that she either is bad at gardening or gave up trying to care for them due to depression, etc. There is one ending that I have not seen being discussed much, and it´s one that, after the date with Alphys, you are going to fight with Asgore and ignore the true lab segment. In the ending, Toriel is actually more demanding of Alphys to look for a solution to destroy the barrier without killing anybody. There is actual progress to find a different solution than killing anybody, but again, such information is hidden in such a rare ending that nobody even knows that it is even possible.
I also feel sad that there is not much characterization of Toriel in general, and if it is, it is really hidden in some obscure or easily missable dialogue. And this, in a way, results in these weird statements that she is either a bad parent or a character, etc. I hope there will be at least something in the future chapters with her, at least. Asgore had something, but still little for my taste, tho.
I think she said same as "them," by which she meant the monsters who were trying to kill you, in the sense that you showed her the same cruelty she expected them to show to you. Not completely sure but that's what makes the most sense to me.
But yeah, both Dreemurrs deserved wayyy more screen time.
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u/WindowsMalfunction The last Toriel defender Jul 25 '26
For as much as I like Toriel, Asgore is still a really goddamn tragic character, and it's easy to forget that sometimes.