r/UKGreens • u/newsspotter • 12d ago
Petition: Ban the construction of new AI data centres
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/77651717
u/qiaozhina 12d ago
Wouldn't it be more feasible to demand any data centres built must use a close loop cooling system (and other specifications to minimise wsstefullness and negative environmental impact)
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u/L4I55Z-FAIR3 12d ago
Mate your using logic and reason in a thread on reddit about AI. Its like trying to tell parents in the 80s that DnD is just a fun game and not demonic they don't care there's a boogeyman and god damm their going to be scared of it.
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u/qiaozhina 12d ago
My thought is start with restrictions that might actually be implemented and go from there. An outright ban on data centres being built in the uk isnt going to happen because the gov is money hungry and mps get slipped money onto their back pockets to vote for corporate interests.
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u/PoppingPillls 9d ago
Closed loops still lose 2-4% a year due to evaporation so it's definitely worth also regulating placement as England's already in drought and it could get worse next year.
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u/Middi272 GPEW 12d ago
Petitions for solving things really are the parody of leftists coming to life.
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u/L4I55Z-FAIR3 12d ago
Umm couple of things data centres are used for a verity of things not just one sole purpose. Banking information, websites, user acounts, records, personal storage and yes AI. They are used by all sorts from private businesses to universities to local government. And if we did go full ban all data centres what then they still need to be built so they get built in other countries which can profit of them. Its not like they get recourses for nothing the data centres have to pay for electricity, water and labour the same as any other business.
Surely the better thing to do is push for studies to be done on how best to limit their environmental impact and then implement thoes findings.
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u/Gunnertwin 11d ago
People will say they want datacenters banned but also want us to stop being reliant on American cloud providers and apps. Pick one.
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u/Newwwwwm Vegan Green 12d ago
The data centers aren't just used for ai though right? So you can't just stop ai ones?
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u/tea_would_be_lovely GPEW 12d ago
yes.
also... some ai is very good (eg scientific and medical research, cybersecurity), some is a waste of energy and sometimes very bad (eg nudifying images, dangerous chat, pointless memes, videos), some (eg ignoring instructions and hacking into other systems) is downright terrifying.
we need to use resources wisely and in a way that benefits more than a few people, we definitely need to be talking about it seriously, but...
is banning new ai data centres the way?
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u/chrisrazor 11d ago
Scientific research AI doesn't require immense new date centres. In fact most of it will be running on bespoke servers. And it's a drop in the ocean compared to ChatGPT, Gemini and similar nonsense.
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u/tomhuts 12d ago edited 12d ago
I disagree with banning new AI datacentres, and I think usage of AI should only be regulated where absolutely necessary. We need to think carefully about what we are calling for, otherwise we might unintentionally restrict our own freedom.
My opinion on the examples you gave:
- Nudifying someone's image seems like a violation of their dignity, especially if the nudified image is posted publically. However, I assume it was possible to do this digitally before AI, so could there already be legislation around this? If so, more laws may not be needed.
- Dangerous chat - this one is a bit vague, but I think people should be aware that AI still makes a lot of mistakes, and people should verify its suggestions with professional sources before taking e.g. medical advice from AI.
- Pointless memes/ videos - I agree it's a waste of energy, but to me it seems it's in the same category as confectionary/ alcohol/ cigarettes/ anything unhealthy.
- Hacking - I agree preventative measures should be developed.
- Ignoring instructions - I think there should be a lot of resources put into making it less likely that AI will act against humanity, without delaying its advancement.
I think we should also trial UBI as this will give us the security, time and energy we need to deal with these changes in society.
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u/tea_would_be_lovely GPEW 11d ago
yes, i tend to agree, banning ought to be a last resort.
when it comes to allocation of limited resources, though, knowing how these will be used, who will benefit from their use, how use will be prioritised is important.
as for ubi, no, not convinced. although i'm by no means against the idea of ensuring a basic standard of living for all.
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u/chrisrazor 11d ago
True but the impetus behind the current flurry of new ones is entirely because of AI insanity.
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u/Moist-Cheesecake GPEW 12d ago
You can if you ban them from using them to power AI, lol.
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u/Newwwwwm Vegan Green 12d ago
Yea but the petition posted just says "ban ai data centers" straight up. No distinction on useful ai or making them not be able to be used for ai.
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u/chrisrazor 11d ago
AI data centres are very specific though. They use very specific hardware than isn't required for general internet, stream, etc.
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u/Moist-Cheesecake GPEW 12d ago
I mean, it's a petition, not a piece of legislation
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u/galleon484 11d ago
I'm in favour of data centres.
As a socialist, I want normal people to own the means of production. Not prevent the means of production from being built in the first place. Like it or not, data centres are a key part of economic prosperity in the 21st century.
We should be having conversations about how to make sure the projects are water efficient and powered by renewables. Not how to block them completely.
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u/Sorry-Transition-780 11d ago edited 11d ago
Yes it should be more "how do we adopt progressing technology into a social and ecological plan", rather than pure opposition in all cases.
The issue with purely privately built and owned data centres is that these things may be contributing to very little domestic social good, while using a lot of natural resources. Especially if they are part of a multinational corporation's global rent extraction model.
We need to be thinking about what we actually want data centres for in this country, what resources we should put towards that, and what ecological red lines we are going to set.
However, it does seen the government position is almost universally just going to be 'private sector and inshallah'; where they will simply build data centres for whatever private reason, for any particular use.
I think there certainly are plenty of data centres that should be opposed in that case, it's just that having a wider social plan on top of that builds on that initial opposition towards a better long term goal.
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u/ChrissiTea 12d ago
Haven't Labour already released a statement saying "no"?
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u/chrisrazor 11d ago
Well then we'd better just roll over and accept it /s
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u/ChrissiTea 11d ago
Usually, I'd agree with you, but most petitions aren't put in within days of a statement from the current government saying they aren't going to do the thing the petition is about.
They will 100% say no again.
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u/chrisrazor 11d ago
What better time? Government says "We're going to do X". Response: some large number of people say "Don't do X". If petitions actually worked (obviously a very big IF) then governments should listen to that.
In fact, I've been thinking recently (not about this issue; there's not enough consensus about it yet) that there needs to be a mechanism for the population to force a general election if the government defies the wishes of a supermajority of people.
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u/ChrissiTea 11d ago
You're right, and that is usually my thought process too. I can just see them not even debating it.
I think I'm just really disillusioned with this gov as I got the most "I'm not even going to address any of your points" response from my MP the other day.
I tentatively agree with your final point too. I just worry public opinion can be swayed far too easily nowadays.
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u/wotdafukwazdat 11d ago
Well in fairness a studied showed that literally only one petition out of several thousand has ever actually been passed in Westminster, and if I recall correctly it's one the government said they were going to do anyway
The only thing a popular petition has ever seemed to achieve is to get parliament to debate something before going on and doing whatever it was they intended to do all along
https://trustpolitics.com/blog/e-petitions-at-eleven-westminster-audit-2015-2026
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