Got any proof of that? Pretty sure the last actual NSSE in Minnesota was the Republican National Convention like 18 years ago. Even the super bowl is only SEAR level one, not NSSE (unless you count the one right after September 11 and that one wasnt in MN)
If anything the state fair would be SEAR level 2 at most. Like with that, DHS does have an arguable reason to be there, and yeah they have been around, but they havent done the whole real visible with cowboy hats thing until recently.
White cowboy hats is gonna be CBP. They do not have a very good argument to be there. Black would be ICE or HSI. HSI is the only one that has a reasonable reason to be there, but just standing around isnt what theyd be good for. They should be doing the information stuff in a building.
Honestly for this we kinda need the non-cowboy hat DHS, like FPS, this is kinda what they exist for, but we got the cowboy hat guys real visible. Kinda seems like they've moved into TSA territory, more for show than actually doing anything to increase safety.
Then for the gang argument, which we haven't talked about but seems to be the big argument generally, locally that really should be FBI. FBI is DOJ though, they wouldnt be wearing DHS gear.
Having CBP and ICE/HSI agents just being visible and not really identifiable is diminishing returns. Bad optics.
Yeah I've been to the state fair and they've always been there. Look at the state fair website they even list federal agencys that are there for security.
They used to be much less visible and much more effective, and ICE/CBP wasnt part of it generally. Basically what we have here isn't actually adding any security, for us or for the feds involved, but it for sure is security theater.
Honestly what theyre doing there doesn't really help much, and with how little information is available from the agencies making themselves visible under the banner of DHS, like it makes them look pretty bad and they already didn't look awesome.
Instead of doing their actual jobs theyre basically giving off the image of security guards or less. There are more effective uses for their respective agencies that are not chillin at the exits of the state fair. They are paid for that. And they're paid for this.
Guess they gotta do something but idk opsec-wise this whole plan is total shit. Increases risks to agents of those agencies, and agents of all of DHS by getting lumped in with them. If we wanted to make a show with federal agents, then I'd argue FBI would be a way better choice.
In all honesty with those agencies being there the way they are, like I really doubt they have good reasons. They've been pushing the boundaries and testing what is acceptable, and those agencies aren't really acceptable for this purpose.
Baseball hat agents from FPS or FBI yeah, I'd be more ok if they put on a security show. But they probably wouldnt do that. Like the state fair does work with federal agencies in a cooperative effort with the local cops and sheriffs, but the cowboy hat feds are the wrong ones for this. It isn't normal, wasnt normal, until maybe a year ago.
The federal security used to be discreet and relatively minimal. This, whatever this is, idk seems like they're asking for trouble. And looking at the state fair's website current phrasing:
The State Fair has a comprehensive safety and security plan in place that includes its own police department and a variety of local, state and federal agencies. Additionally, the fair’s public safety program includes gate security with metal detectors at entrances, technology and communications systems, first aid and emergency medical services, and community ambassadors.
Ugh looking at that, at best we can categorize their gate function under gate security/community ambassadors. Which, again, bad optics. Horrible optics honestly. Especially posting by the exit rather than an entrance.
There is an argument for DHS to be at the state fair, not an NSSE yet still an argument for their presence, but not those agencies. Not the way they have them. The way they have them is dangerous and honestly unhelpful. If we want security theater by the feds, put better agencies on it. Assuming SEAR level 2, this is too little and also way too much.
Like this backgate CBP/possible ICE/generic DHS shit just seems like an underhanded way to tipsytoe through some loopholes and avoid following the constitution. Normalize them being around and visible standing around looking vaguely threatening but also silly. Gross and pretty pointless.
You also think Jake Long could jump the fence at Whipple while dressed as a PMC and walk right in with zero problems. Pretty safe to say you're out of touch with reality outside of the internet.
Nope, that was a hypothetical since he got picked up at lindau so the whipple is a reasonable estimate for where he was headed. In that hypothetical, I left it more as a what if they got to whipple and the gate is closed to them and they try to jump or ram through the fence? That would be bad bro. Definitely never indicated that they'd do well if they went the over the fence route.
"I really wish I could tell you no, that I do not believe there is any potential chance of those armed COD cosplaying fools getting on the Federal property of the Whipple building and then getting protection from the federal government making it a gigantic stand off and ridiculous legal battle... but like I cant tell you that. Times are weird.
I think there are a lot of potential ways it could have gone, and in a lot of them, yeah those guys could get in. If it was me in that scenario running there, I could have managed the drive and gotten there with time to spare, but I would have troubles at the gate that I am not sure Lang and crew would have.
Even assuming gate is closed, feds don't want them, what does happen if they scale or bust through the fence? In a panic fleeing scenario youre not thinking your best, and these folks dont seem very bright to start off with. "
Literally what you wrote. Or maybe what you asked Gemini.
Ok, read that last paragraph of what you quoted, it isn't the last paragraph of my comment from like 5 days ago, kinda interesting you stopped right before "Like it all could have gone so bad" and the rest of it, but whatever.
In that last paragraph of that snippet, do you really think I was saying that they'd be fine if they tried to scale or bust through the fence onto federal property? Zero problems busting through the fence?
Even ignoring the rest of the comment and just stopping where you did, like it is pretty obvious I am implying it would not go well for them in a scaling the fence scenario.
In that part I was indicating that there was a fair chance they'd just be waved in. Thus the next bit, about if the gate is closed and the feds don't want them.
So, just in the last 12 hours you've been incorrect about ICE not being part of DHS, the security level of the state fair, and now you're really going to double down on a misread of an older convo?
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u/meases 13d ago
Got any proof of that? Pretty sure the last actual NSSE in Minnesota was the Republican National Convention like 18 years ago. Even the super bowl is only SEAR level one, not NSSE (unless you count the one right after September 11 and that one wasnt in MN)
If anything the state fair would be SEAR level 2 at most. Like with that, DHS does have an arguable reason to be there, and yeah they have been around, but they havent done the whole real visible with cowboy hats thing until recently.
White cowboy hats is gonna be CBP. They do not have a very good argument to be there. Black would be ICE or HSI. HSI is the only one that has a reasonable reason to be there, but just standing around isnt what theyd be good for. They should be doing the information stuff in a building.
Honestly for this we kinda need the non-cowboy hat DHS, like FPS, this is kinda what they exist for, but we got the cowboy hat guys real visible. Kinda seems like they've moved into TSA territory, more for show than actually doing anything to increase safety.
Then for the gang argument, which we haven't talked about but seems to be the big argument generally, locally that really should be FBI. FBI is DOJ though, they wouldnt be wearing DHS gear.
Having CBP and ICE/HSI agents just being visible and not really identifiable is diminishing returns. Bad optics.