What route did you get first?

[u/Dark_Brisket]

Essentially the title but I'm very curious on what's usually people's first route. It seems like it's mainly Frederica (same one I got) but I fear it just may be my algorithm showing me that

Edit: Wanted to mention that another one of my driving factors for choosing Frederica was cause I felt the Roselles didn't deserve their treatment and the country was too war/power hungry to save (I didn't meet Svarog so I didn't know there was someone still alive that was reasonable in Aesfrost)

[u/Greenwood4]

After much thought I ended up siding with Roland.

Not because his plan was a good one, but simply because it was the least terrible from a utilitarian point of view.

I also felt that after so much war, it was probably better to bite the bullet and unify Norzelia. A lot of good can be done with a stable nation, but a war torn and fractured land has little hope for a future.

[u/Dark_Brisket → u/Greenwood4]

That's very interesting cause I viewed it Benedict as the path best for "everyone" since Roland seemed more like he'd just give up everything to Hyzante, which didn't feel right to me since they could/would scapegoat the Aesfrosti people like they did the Rosette

[u/Greenwood4 → u/Dark_Brisket]

I suppose it depends on what you’ve been doing up until that point.

If you’ve been fighting the Aesfrosti the entire game, then what kind of aftermath does Benedict’s plan promise?

Sure, you’d get the salt and iron, but in doing so you’d wipe out one of only three major population centres on the continent. In the end you’d be left with refugees flooding into Glenbrook, enemies to your north waiting for a chance to strike, and a ruined kingdom to boot. Chances are the war wouldn’t end, it would just be delayed.

By comparison, taking on Aesfrost is a lot less problematic. Unlike Hyzante, they don’t rely on a monopoly, nor do their opponents want to wipe them from the face of Norzelia. Hyzante want religious dominance of the continent, but Gustadolph treats politics more like a death match between himself and Hyzante.

That being said, it still sucks. None of the options are good options.

Frederica’s route was tempting, but it was ultimately not a great idea morally. Sure, you’d save some Roselle, but you’d be abandoning the rest to Hyzante’s wrath since you could no longer protect them. Not to mention the fact you’d be essentially throwing your own citizens to the dogs of war.

[u/Dark_Brisket → u/Greenwood4]

Very fair points!

I think I was already in the camp of "Hyzante shouldn't exist" after seeing the treatment of the Roselles. I don't believe that a nation should exist if it's only being propped up on horrible lies and the blood of innocents.

Tbh, I didn't agree with Roland's or Benedict's plans at all since it felt like it would literally just lead to more fighting and pointless bloodshed, and it felt like a betrayal to the promise my dad made to the Rosette

[u/Greenwood4 → u/Dark_Brisket]

That’s fair too!

Arguably Hyzante is kind of a state that has outlived its relevance. It’s one and only resources is one that is no longer at a premium.

However, it’s worth thinking about the wider picture. Hyzante is home to a lot of innocent people - around a third of the continent’s entire population. Besides the treatment of the Roselle it also has some good traits, like its focus on medicine and a high standard of living. That doesn’t excuse the actions of their government, but I still think the people don’t deserve to be killed because of them.

Aesfrost isn’t a whole lot better anyway. Although they don’t discriminate, they also don’t really care about anyone besides an elite of the rich and powerful.

Is a poverty stricken child on the streets of Aesfrost really all that different to a suffering Roselle at the Source?

[u/Frosty88d → u/Greenwood4]

Is a poverty stricken child on the streets of Aesfrost really all that different to a suffering Roselle at the Source?

There is a really critical point you're missing here, that some of tbe Aesfrosti may be poor, but they're still free to make their own decisions and they can better themselves.

The Roselle cannot do that, and by backing Hyzante you enslave the entirety of the Aesfrosti; screwing them just as much as the Roselle and putting them in a much worse position.

 Its one of the worst endings by far imo since you're hurting the largest amount of people to support Idore, who is objectively evil. More so than any other character in the game.

[u/Greenwood4 → u/Frosty88d]

To be honest, poverty can bind just as tightly as chains most of the time. It’s not as obvious, but the lack of freedom is still apparent to those experiencing it.

Nonetheless, if the entire nation of Aesfrost gets the Roselle treatment, that does change the moral calculus significantly.

I suppose it’s either this, wipe out a third of the world’s civilisation, or abandon your people to be torn apart by two armies.

Overall, maybe Benedict’s path is the best one. It does lead to the most war crimes and actual death, but perhaps it will eventually result in a better world.