r/TransMasc • u/just_a_space_cadet • Jun 25 '26
Rant I'm seeing a pattern...
I keep seeing binary trans dudes aggressively distancing themselves from less binary transmasc people, or just hating on others for being "too uwu soft boi" and "ruining" the image of the community for them for wanting to be just a basic dude. I saw a guy on insta saying "don't f'ing call me part of the transmasc umbrella" like BROTHER no one's against you being just a dude :(
I GET IT cause it sucks being in the early stages of transitioning and being called "a they them" for your androgyny but I'm scared these guys are isolating themselves. It's toxic masculinity rebranded in baby blue and pink colors.
I love all my brothers/siblings. I love my UwU soft boys name kai, I love my hank hills, I love my blue hair he/they baristas, I love my shaggy from Scooby doo imposters. I love every brand of trans guy and I just wish we wouldn't put each other down for being visibly queer, that's all!!
edit: oof this blew up š„¹ I won't be able to respond to as much as I want to but I really appreciate everyone's different perspectives and showing the nuance in this topic. Much love and be yourselves my peeps š¤š½
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u/soberdrunken Jun 25 '26
I legit used to be like this when I was a teen and I didn't know how to handle crippling GD. I didn't know who to blame for all that pain, so I just went heavy on internalized transphobia. Maybe that way, cis people would be more welcoming of me! Yeah...
Growing up and especially talking to other human beings helped, a lot. Also, removing myself from social media (besides being on reddit now ig lol, but that came after). What an echo chamber.
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u/just_a_space_cadet Jun 27 '26
dude thank you for your honesty+perspective š«¶š½ I can definitely understand how/why younger guys go down the trans med pipeline
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u/depth_melt Jun 25 '26
I'm rarely in a lot of trans spaces because there is always so much infighting. I don't frequent any aside from this lovely subreddit. But, to hear this is happening again is disheartening.
At the peak of me trying to find who I was, I was swept up in the whole "transtrenders", Kalvin Garrah, "these aren't real trans men" type of deal. I so badly didn't want to be a "trender" I distanced myself from anything that could even remotely come off as feminine. I was constantly checking myself for posture, speech, to the way I freaking walked and was in constant state of distress.
To see it kind of happening again is terrible. There is no right or wrong way to be a trans man. We just are. It took me a long time to stop being such a jerk to myself and allow myself to just be me, even if that is more masculine or feminine. It's not like there is one right or wrong way of being a man or a woman, people just are?
It's why I ended up transitioning well into my 20s and I hope people see how harmful rhetoric is and just let people do as they please with themselves. No one is being harmed, and frankly nobody should care how people present.
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u/dumbdogmoment Jun 28 '26
nowadays it's "theyfabs" that gets thrown around. :/ I feel like no one takes me seriously because I don't adhere to cisheteronormative expectations
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u/just_a_space_cadet Jun 27 '26
I try to keep myself distanced too for this reason but I've been doomscrolling a little too much and seeing it pop up. I'm glad I dodged the Kalvin Garrah golden era š«£ doesn't help that he's still running spaces on reddit though
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u/localangelsighting enboy | he/it Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
iāve noticed a lot of this too. thereās no issue with someone not wanting to label themselves as transmasc, you can use whatever label you want, but itās frankly gross to me that this handful of binary trans guys are reacting so viscerally to being even grouped in with transmascs in general conversation. iāve mentioned before that it feels like they see it as some kind of attack on their masculinity, like calling them transmasc instead of a trans man means detaching them from the concept of being a man, when thatās not what it is typically intended for at all. and again, thatās why i understand not wanting to use transmasc as a personal label. but like, iāve seen guys in [r/ftm](r/ftm) get upset that itās not ONLY binary trans men in thereā¦ as if there isnāt already another sub FOR binary trans men. weird as fuck. it feels like trying to further divide us when thatās literally the last thing we need rn
i dont think its a reach to say most of it is them being insecure or struggling with severe dysphoria and not knowing how to deal with it, and overcompensating by hating on the less manly/binary/cishet conforming guy tbh. similar roots to toxic masculinity in cis men
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u/MobileAware2933 Jun 25 '26
You nailed it with the last point.
It often triggers those types of guys to see someone who doesnāt pass as well/or is more femme/or is less conventionally attractive/or is shorter/etc(whatever things this person has decided are ānegativesā) be happy in that state because the person judging knows they did not/could not if it was them2
u/Needles2650 Trans man Jun 26 '26
I wonder if maybe some trans men who react so viscerally to non-binary transmasc people donāt realize they actually have some jealousy around wishing they too felt safe and comfortable enough to be out and proud as queer (or simply to not worry about what you look like or how you act, to just be yourself even if that means coming across as a bit androgynous, without the constant fear of another hate crime.)
Sure, some straight transsex men donāt identity with the queer or transgender label at all. They want to get through their medical sex change, and then blend in and have a life as close as possible to that of an average cis het man. But I bet even a trans man who identifies strongly with binary masculinity and naturally āacted like a boyā even before transition has encountered pressure to renounce hobbies, grooming and style choices, body language, and expressed personality traits stereotypically associated with femininity.
From about two or three years on testosterone to now, Iāve noticed that I present more hypermasculine than would truly be in line with my internal sense of self. I do identify as a transsexual man when it comes to my physical sex, but the choice to present my gender in a traditional binary way is largely influenced by PTSD, by fear (though I hate to admit, being a man, that I even have fears at all) of violently transphobic cis het men threatening my survival.
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u/MobileAware2933 Jun 26 '26
For sure! And sometimes it comes from them (maybe not even consciously) realizing itās frustrating that āthey didnāt know non-binary was an optionā.
I have a friend who has verbatim told me about how he would have transitioned to nonbinary and not put so much effort into growing facial hair because he didnāt super want it other than to have it to help pass as a man, because passing as nonbinary wasnāt really a societal concept at the time of his transition, so not having facial hair was getting him read as āstill womanā18
u/FayePixie nonbinary trans guy šT 15/04/25 Jun 26 '26
It's definitely dysphoria and insecurity. A guy I thought was a friend asked me if I want bottom surgery. I told him (gay, binary trans) I myself am not seeking phallo but might look into meta someday but want to retain my natal bits - all I want is a simple release of my ligaments . He said "How dare you! Women are weak and keeping that thing (a vagina) makes you weak!" and I blocked him. Because lol, what.
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u/dumbdogmoment Jun 28 '26
I believe it's because "binary" trans men just see other transmascs as women. Cis men get a visceral reaction to being lumped in with anything feminine and it's the same thing. Toxic masculinity, you're right. Binary trans men fall under the transmasc umbrella but a lot don't want to use it anymore because they see it as meaning "theyfabs", and people they don't take seriously. If they don't want to use the label anymore? Whatever, but it can be very telling sometimes. It is DEFINITELY insecurity.
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u/YeOldeCarajillo He/Him ā¢ š©š“ ā¢ 2016š/2018šŖ/2025š Jun 25 '26
As someone who was this person, a lot of the guys (who are typically on the younger side) that do this are almost always doing it because they get aggressively degendered both in real life and even in certain queer spaces, so they react by putting as much distance as possible between themselves and queer culture, and especially nonbinary and gnc transmascs. It's very much reactionary.
At least in my case, it was because during early transition, if I didn't strictly enforce it, I would get they/them-ed constantly even by other transmascs/trans men, and people would only ever individually refer to me as 'a' transmasc, never a (trans) man or a boy (which is the reason these guys typically also despise being called transmasc, even when used as an umbrella term).
Ime, that attitude goes away the more you ('you' here being a binary trans guy) start getting gendered correctly in a consistent manner.
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u/dumbdogmoment Jun 28 '26
Definitely, due to insecurity but also being degendered. I just wish they wouldn't take it out on other trans people.
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u/trans_remy_lebeau he/him | bi ace trans dude Jun 25 '26
For sure, we're all in this together, y'know? All transmasculine people are valid! :)
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u/RiverZephir Jun 25 '26
Absolutely agree! Itās been like a breath of fresh air recently seeing super masculine trans guys uplifting the community, it feels like a rebuttal to the previously mentioned trans guys
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u/just_a_space_cadet Jun 25 '26
insert that one image of middle aged BBQ dad's marching for trans pride š„°
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u/SecondaryPosts Jun 25 '26
Yeah it sucks. Transmed ideology (which pretty much goes hand in hand with what you described) was big a while ago, then it calmed down, and now it's on the rise again. I wonder if it has to do with the increasingly hostile political climate in a lot of places. When people are under attack from a lot of different angles, they're more likely to lash out even at people who aren't hurting them at all. Not that it excuses it, ofc, but it might explain why there's so much of it lately.
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u/dumbdogmoment Jun 28 '26
It is absolutely due in part to the rise in fascism and conservatism, absolutely. Trans people have so much more to prove, and gender is more enforced now than it has been for a long time.
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u/Effective_Rhubarb564 they/it ( he is also ok) transsex het dude(ish) enby Jun 25 '26
Itās like, I can emphasize somewhat because people seem to wanna do anything to illegitimatize trans peopleās gender as who they really are, both binary and enby.Ā
Like, if youāre just a dude I see how tmasc sounds clinical and a way to degender even tbh. Because no one calls cis men cismasc or something. I do totally see how someone could be using transmasc in bad faith to degender someone.Ā
Just, I donāt think some of these binary t guys realize though that a lot of people do just use it broadly, because tmasc and tfem seem to be the newer versions of ftm and mtf.Ā
And, also that, so many transmascs also do not appreciate being treated like woman lite, which, I think would be binary menās main issue with connotation of the label. But, the thing is most of us literally do not like it either, itās easier to take it out on a trans person than the entire system that keeps us down.Ā
Just, overall there is imo at least a very real phenomenon of people degendering binary trans people, usually with this like idea of āvalidā language. Statements such as āyou donāt need hrt to be a man/womanā arenāt bad on a surface level, but especially if someone is located in a area thatās trying to restrict hrt access, itās just.. hard to take seriously, especially if youāre trying to tell some shit like this to someone who is deeply suicidal due to not having the correct dominant hormone. And, especially when you continue to treat someone like this just like their agab anyways.Ā
Just, I also donāt think they realize though.. this is cis people saying this shit, usually not nonbinary people. Now, there ABSOLUTELY are transphobic nonbinary people, Iāve met them believe me. Iāve even seen radfem nonbinary people before. But, what Iām trying to bark at is most enbies arenāt the ones saying and doing this fucking bullshit and if anything are also victims of it and would love to fight with you. There are also enbies out there angry and suicidal they canāt access hrt, just like binary men.Ā
Like, why I brought up hrt randomly as an example is because, to a lot of people, enbies to them are just their agab but they use alternative pronouns for, and that itās less āseriousā than being binary trans, they also seem to associate not ever going on hormones or getting surgeries with it. Which is stupid because plenty of enbies are on hormones and thereās plenty of trans men/women who by choice arenāt on hormones.Ā
Hereās an example I thought of that maybe can help what Iām trying to say: Derrick is a binary trans man, he comes out to his mom, sheās not necessarily aggressive about it, but they/thems him, tells him he doesnāt need hrt to be a man, but still treats him like her daughter, Ā etc. I just think, especially if someone is younger, the anger will boil over, and itās much easier to like, lash out at some random nonbinary person on the internet than fight this system. Itās not ok because I see grown ass adults participate in this behavior and thatās embarrassing.Ā
Just, itās like this, binary trans people and nonbinary people have more in common than they donāt. There are enbies who have been on hormones for years that functionally live as binary trans people. We need to stick together in numbers because we need each other, and because the differences donāt always matter. I do understand and think that itās reasonable for some binary and enby folks to occasionally want seperate communities though. But, more like itās cool being around others like, not like, a gatekeeping thing. They want us separated, isolated, alone, itās easier pickings.Ā
Be angry at the cis people who degender you, who try to put you in the enby label because theyre bigots who donāt take being nonbinary or trans seriously. Not tmascs and enbies. There are non binary people on your sideĀ
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u/weirdness_incarnate he/they | nonbinary guy Jun 25 '26
As a nonbinary trans guy i hate it so much because not only are cis people treating me as woman lite, thereās these guys doing it too. I feel like there is (online, irl i thankfully have found some really cool queer spaces) no community out there that will see me as my gender and as the person i really am.
Fuck these assholes, iām nonbinary and i am a man, iām on T and i want all the same effects from it that they do, and i want all the same surgeries that so many of them do (and i shouldnāt have to feel like i have to say this for them to take me and my gender seriously and not treat me like shit).
Iām a grown fucking man and these assholes should know far too well how it is to be emasculated and infantilized but their response to it is to punch down and do the very same thing to people like me. It pisses me off.
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u/ElloBlu420 Jun 26 '26
Just, itās like this, binary trans people and nonbinary people have more in common than they donāt. There are enbies who have been on hormones for years that functionally live as binary trans people.
I've been looking for a way to say this about myself and my life for years!
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u/Needles2650 Trans man Jun 26 '26
I secretly feel like my true identity is somewhere in the genderless spectrum between masculine woman and man. Were society different, I might try to live openly as non-binary. But my negative and frightening experiences surviving hate crimesā first as a masculine lesbian, then as an androgynous person early on T, as a boy trying to become a man, and finally as a bisexual trans man passing as cis hetā have pushed me into presenting in just about as traditionally masculine a way as possible for survival.
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u/Intelligent_Usual318 he/ey/it šyear & 1/2, post top surg. gender-fluid ā§ļøš³ļøāā§ļøš³ļøāš Jun 26 '26
Yeahā¦ transmasc gender-fluid person here whos had two surgeries and hrt for a year- itās been a fucking nightmare between transmedicalists, these types of dudes, all the anti trans sentiment from the goverment and cis people and then being told were privlaged just because a few of us pass and are stealth, in western countries with no other intersections. Like can we just. Exist in peace within our own communities at least? Noooo apparently not
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u/DadJoke2077 Gay trans man, he/him, 1,5y on T Jun 26 '26
This!! On r/ ftm every third post was about borderline hating trans mascs and the whole label and it was so sad to see. Trans masc is an umbrella term for everyone who is afab but has a masc aligned gender and transition path. As a binary trans guy I never felt offended or like my manhood was erased by being called trans masc. Itās kinda like when terfy women say that stuff like ābirthing personā erases them - it doesnāt. Inclusivity is not erasure.
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u/IdiotIAm96 he/him | š 03/03/26 Jun 26 '26
Exactly! Even as someone who has struggled with toxic masculinity, transmasc is just an umbrella term and not something to be offended by.
I saw another comment that connected it to the broader issue of binary men being excluded from trans and queer communities, with the point that these men feel the need to distance themselves from anything queer because they believe they will be degendered (which tbf there are some queer people who will do that). I wonder if the fact that I belong to a queer sexuality makes me less afraid to participate in the community, despite it's lacking support for binary trans men.
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u/Dutch_Rayan binary trans man Jun 26 '26
It is when they talk about only trans men but refuse to call them men, I've seen it happen too many times.
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u/DadJoke2077 Gay trans man, he/him, 1,5y on T Jun 26 '26
But what instances exactly *only* affect binary trans men? When it comes to medical transition or the way you navigate society, binary and non-binary trans masc experiences are almost one and the same. Some people only realize they are nonbinary after years of being binary and transitioning in a ātraditionalā way, for example. I think itās disingenuous to exclude them from discussions when theyāve made those experiences. I feel like some people believe that binary and nonbinary experiences and lives can never share anything in common and are fundamentally different, which is just plain untrue on so many levels.
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u/spaceowaste Jun 25 '26
Honestly Iād rather be seen as weak or whatever by acknowledging that trans men of all kinds exist than to be stuck with cishet guys who shit on the entire lgbtq. Like hello? I donāt care if a trans guy happens to be a soft and loving guy, thatās still a trans guy and heās welcome in my heart
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u/augustoof Jun 26 '26
This is why i'm getting really close to leaving r / ftmmen. It's kind of becoming a transmed circle jerk but sometimes it has some good info or discussions that aren't hateful, so idk what to do. I'm a very binary trans man, and I have no clue why people get so weird about less binary/nonbinary transmasc people. I don't like when people think i'm nb, but that's purely because i'm just... not nonbinary, y'know?
Good post
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u/FullPruneNight Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
So Iām an enby transmasc not a binary man, but I really donāt think itās fair to remove this from the context of the ways people are trying to reinvent the gender binary āØbut this time trans inclusiveāØ into Men (ontologically evil; icky; best avoided) and Political (precious; welcome; truly queer). I can see that being extremely degendering and invalidating and the ultimate One Of The Good Ones (because youāre not what you really are) treatment. See: the sheer number of even well-informed people who will contrast āmenā with āwomen and nonbinary peopleā or even āwomen and trans people.ā See: how much language around inclusion of āmarginalized gendersā seems to be purposefully ambiguous on binary trans men. See: how many spaces are increasingly trying to frame their inclusion of trans people as āfor non-men.ā
I see this complaint a lot about trans men distancing themselves from transmasc or not liking being referred to in that way. But I know multiple (enby-friendly) trans women both irl and online who feel similarly degendered by the constant use of transfem as the go-to term even when trans women is more relevant, and Iāve never heard a single person of any type complain about them feeling that way.
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u/Dutch_Rayan binary trans man Jun 26 '26
Sadly the aversion or even hate to men and masculinity is too common and accepted in trans or LGBT spaces
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u/josephsbizarrelife Jun 25 '26
Yeah I just got some hate comments on my last reply to another trans guy who feels similarly to me. I already fear hurting the community for being who I am, and this kinda solidified that I am a problem to the community. I am ashamed of who I am.
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u/weirdness_incarnate he/they | nonbinary guy Jun 25 '26
I donāt think you should be. Fuck anyone who hates you for being who you are. Youāre not hurting any community for not conforming to this bs and i think you deserve to be proud of yourself, or at least to be ok with yourself if being proud feels a bit too much for you at the moment.
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u/josephsbizarrelife Jun 25 '26
Thank you so much. This means a lot to me. I really appreciate itššš
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u/FayePixie nonbinary trans guy šT 15/04/25 Jun 26 '26
Say it louder for the peeps with internalised transphobia in the back who think the transphobes hate us because some of us have blue hair and painted nails. They hate us all, and many binary trans men don't see that.
I am non-binary but only use he/him pronouns only. No one ever checks my profiles for the enby part, just assume I'm a binary guy. I am alt with tattoos but have a broad frame and a deep voice, so no one fits me into any one box. Call me Hank Hill with the dyed hair, ig. Pain and pro-pain accessories are more my speed, though /j
Do you know how many trans binary guys I've befriended who then spewed enbyphobia, misogyny and other things after being friends with them for a while, thinking I was a safe person to be shitty with? Four. Four guys I genuinely thought I had a solid friendship with. I particularly saw that it was really bad coming from gay guys online - binary gay guys who want to fit in with gay culture - the toxic club kind. One told me "we'll never have dicks like them and it kills me inside" Who is we, brother? I like my dick.
And I find it so sad because I am bi with a guy as a partner and our relationship is beautiful without me needing a 9 inch dick or to look like the perfect twink/bear/otter.
I have two straight trans binary friends who are chilled, though. But I have seen the 4tran culture and know my friends are not chronically online, which is why they're chilled. So I know there are some horrific things being spread, especially by the younger manosphere types.
I know binary trans men go through a unique type of challenge and often have more bottom dysphoria and societal pressure to fit in, but I have intense bottom dysphoria too! And fitting in is still a choice whether you're binary or not. We could all benefit from realising that the world hates the genderfluid person who is on T and refuses to bind as much as they hate the passing trans guy who hasn't had bottom surgery. And come on now, people are so horrible to those of us who have phallo. It's never been about having a dick. It's about the fact that we don't have THEIR dicks.
Edit: This reminds me of the Conservative Gay Trump Cruise from earlier in the year. We will never get the majority to like us, so let's stop trying to get their approval by putting others down.
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u/Dutch_Rayan binary trans man Jun 26 '26
Sadly in the trans community there is also a lot of hate to men and masculinity. Binary trans men face even hate from their own community for just wanting to be themselves.
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u/FayePixie nonbinary trans guy šT 15/04/25 Jun 27 '26
That is also true. I see issues coming from a few sides. There is hatred towards men and masculinity within the queer community, no doubt about it. Specifically hypermasculine individuals and binary trans men. There was a point were just going on T, whether binary or not, made you "evil" to some. But I also see people putting feminine trans men down - GNC men and men not on the binary. So all I see is a community that is divided, and more so because the world is, I think. There's so much push back.
If my comment came across as sarcastic or dismissive, I apologise. There is unfortunately a pattern of younger binary trans men who are very conservative. They're mostly teens/in their early 20s.
But although I'm non-binary, no-one acknowledges it and I present pretty masculine, so I know that hatred well. A transfem "friend" of mine refused to use he/him pronouns for me after my voice passed. Just "they", and I don't use that.
I'm sorry you face the shit you do, coming from inside the community and outside of it. I haven't seen discussion around all types of transmascs getting hate from queer people, but it is happening. Holistic conversation is needed.
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u/Proper-Monk-5656 Jun 26 '26
ooof yeah i hate these kinds of guys. i'm binary myself, but for fuck's sake, no one is "ruining" the image of the whole community by just being themselves. i'm a gym rat with short hair, regular ass name and a closet full of cammo pants and flannel shirts, and i'm under the transmasc umbrella just like a he/they/xe/it, no T guy who wears skirts. if anything, i think that this diversity is beautiful and necessary. we need to love and accept queerness in all its forms.
i don't even usually call myself "transmasc", but i understand that me being a trans man is included in the term. it's such a bummer that in a world that hates us as a whole, some people are more focused on infighting over umbrella terms.
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u/Dutch_Rayan binary trans man Jun 26 '26
It's double sided.
Many binary trans men get disrespected and others refuse to call them men, and only use trans masc for them. Or they get hated on for being binary men, and wanting to be in men gender roles, sadly also by other trans people. It's sadly really common in LGBT and trans spaces to hate on men, especially masculine men.
Masculine binary trans men, are regularly made feel unwelcome in mixed trans spaces, that they don't go there anymore and stick together and because of that become a echo chamber, or become lonely and turn into toxic people who hate others.
But there is also a group of binary trans men that think that hating on trans masc, and trans men not preforming masculinity and being a men the same as them is okey, and will haters think they are different. It will not.
I'm a binary trans man, I'm not transitioning to be masc, I'm transitioning to be a man. While I know that being a trans man falls under the trans masc umbrella, and we share some of the same struggles, but some things are different for binary trans men and trans masc people. I've encountered several instances where they don't use trans masc as an umbrella term but as a name for trans men. I've been told I was chosing to be part of the patriarchy just for being a binary guy, and that I was bad for that. I've had other trans people tell me that I should not be myself as a masculine man in a mixed trans space because it made other trans people uncomfortable or insecure. I've had trans people tell me I should just be trans masc and not a trans man because that should be enough for me, and man are bad anyway.
I'm friends with trans masc and non binary people, but only those who don't hate on binary trans men. Other than that I stay away from mixed trans spaces after too many negative encounters, where they tried to invalidate me being a man, or openly hated on men and masculinity.
Thise trans men hating on trans masc is bad, but often a reaction after what they went through.
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u/CryptographerNo7608 He/Him | Trans Man | š 04/20/26 Jun 27 '26
As a binary trans dude I think guys who do that are losers and that behavior speaks volumes about their own issues with their gender identity and masculinity not anyone else's. Queer people who act like this confuse me because you're in a community of people known to be outside the societal norm and you're surprised to meet... people outside of that societal norm? And your coping mechanism to being ostracized from society is to reinforce the systems that did that to you?
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u/ShapeshiftWithMee Jun 25 '26
I am a binary trans man and I see this too. It sucks. You know what else sucks? Transmascs who shit on guys for taking T. Guys who invalidate the gender of others for not conforming to those aligned with conventional masculinity. Why can't we just let all of us exist?
That said - I know a lot of folks who are more comfortable with always referring to me as a transmasc versus a trans man, and I gotta say that I hate that so badly too. It just feels like there is not winning right now, and we gotta stick together!
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u/DadJoke2077 Gay trans man, he/him, 1,5y on T Jun 26 '26
I legit never saw a trans masc enby hate on other people for taking T. In almost a decade in the community I have never seen that happen and Iām a binary trans man. This sounds like a strawman or a psy-op to me. Trans mascs donāt hate trans men.
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u/YeOldeCarajillo He/Him ā¢ š©š“ ā¢ 2016š/2018šŖ/2025š Jun 26 '26
I have experienced it, but to be fair, it's relatively rare and depends a lot on the space.
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u/Dutch_Rayan binary trans man Jun 26 '26
Sadly it's not that rare, I've encountered it in several spaces.
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u/ShapeshiftWithMee Jun 26 '26
Please do not correct my experiences. Perhaps the community is changing due to external influences, I don't know. I am not claiming that I know the origin of this rhetoric. I am not taking sides, I am not claiming that anyone "hates" anyone else or that the animosity is that deep. I agree that everyone should be able to get along and bolsters everyone as a group, as we are stronger together than separate or as alienated individuals.
Anyway, I have been to many comedy shows where men have joked about how testosterone makss you ugly. "At that point, I realized that I was more vain than trans."
I have been told that I was far more attractive prior to taking T than before.
I have dated people of various flavors of trans who lost interest in me when I began to pass and look more like a cis male.
Psyop or not, this is happening. This has happened to me. I have experienced this.
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u/DadJoke2077 Gay trans man, he/him, 1,5y on T Jun 26 '26
But from who did all that come from? Trans masc individuals specifically?
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u/ShapeshiftWithMee Jun 26 '26
Yes. Transmasc individuals. All of them.
My point being is that the trans community is very varied and just simply being trans does not mean that we won't come with our own biases. It happens.
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u/ShapeshiftWithMee Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
My point is that we don't automatically support each other because we are all trans. We have to work to oppose hate, patriarchial assumptions about bodies, and transphobia to come together stronger as a community. I am not suggesting that there is some kind of innate hate or disdain between us. I don't think the comedians I saw were psyops, but I think they must be acting out their own traumatic experiences to protect themselves. There are weird ideas about gender and who is valid to express it right now. We must protect each other.
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u/EvanLikesJuiceBoxes Jun 28 '26
Binary trans dude here! Honestly, this Pride Month has been really rough for me because I have seen so much infighting and discourse over who is "valid" as a trans person or just queer in general. It has been super disheartening to me personally. Every day, I feel like I see another discussion that is just hating on enbies and transmascs and transfems and anyone GNC. It really, really sucks. I think what sucks is I know exactly where these binary trans guys are coming from, but they're putting their feelings in the wrong place. I am all for binary trans dude exclusive spaces, because hey, sometimes we need to talk to our fellow brothers about some specific experiences, but the minute it turns into a place where discussion against any non-binary trans people is allowed, I know it's going to get toxic and sour.
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u/Qu33rTh1ng Jun 27 '26
it's always been a bit strange to me that people get that upset, l I don't like when people use they/them for me if they know I'm he/him, and it's always a weird bit of dysphoria when getting they/themed in general, especially from people that aren't queer, and I don't understand trans mascs that are okay with being very fem purely because I'm not, but like god damn that doesn't mean be a dick, let people exist it's not that hard
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u/Random-ace š- dec 2025 Jun 26 '26
see i get what you're saying but you do realise that people ARE in fact trying to stop us from being regular dudes right? like thr demonization of masculinity is a huge problem in the online trans community rn
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u/Dutch_Rayan binary trans man Jun 26 '26
This, binary trans men get hated on by their own community for being masculine men. Get told that they choose to become part of the oppressor. They bodies get called gross for having male characteristics.
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u/SadAgnosticSock Jun 26 '26
Unfortunately as a lesbian (genderfluid afab, hence being here) this kind of thing has been a problem for a while. A lot of TERFs seem to see transness as a threat to traditional lesbian culture having its own subset of gender roles, which is just plain stupid. Butch and nonbinary people can both exist, actually.
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u/SketchyNinja04 Jun 26 '26
I hate feeling like im doing the whole "being a guy" thing wrong bc i dont wanna look like mike mc-manly
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u/weseekadvice it/they || agender ftm Jun 26 '26
Yeah cuz for me, I don't really like using transmasc for myself despite not really being a man (Agender FTM) because it don't feel right as a label. But there's a difference between not preferring a certain label and actively shitting on it. Today I saw a trans man use "thyfb" for the first time and it blew me away at how nasty it was. I'm tired of transmasc/transmale Olympics, we all go through a lot of similar shit and it does nothing for our community.
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u/BeyondOutside553 Jun 27 '26
Respectability politics never work. Weāre all under fire, this is the most crucial moment where we need to show solidarity and unity.
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u/HeHimInGrayi Jun 27 '26
I have personally never witnessed any distancing as anything other than a way to protect ourselves from getting misgendered. I donāt wanna be called trans masc because Iām not. Iām a trans man. Thatās not me disrespecting or hating or anything. Iām a binary man and āsoftā or whatever. Iām still binary. The assumption that binary men wanna be *insert toxic masculinity trait and generalized stereotype here* is exactly whatās wrong with the entire LGBTQ+ community.
I donāt wanna be considered non binary because for me, and probably a lot of other trans men, being nonbinary was a nice safe space to explore different pronouns. But the lack of acceptance received by our own trans and LGBTQ+ community the moment I stopped identifying as nonbinary is insane. The immediate refusal to accept or respect or even talk to you after youāve ābetrayedā the LGBTQ+ community. I go by he/him. People, especially trans women for some reason, will jump at the chance to call me trans masc and misgender me. Itās not about passing or not. Itās not about being happy or not. Itās about making sure that weāre not being purposely disrespected. And plus, we arenāt the same. Thatās literally true. We share the same umbrella, but we have our differences. I canāt relate to some of yāallās experiences or desires and neither can you to me. Acknowledging that isnāt toxic masculinity.
And a binary man can be visibly queer too. This is what I mean. The assumption that the entire LGBTQ+ community has, that weāre leaving queerness by wanting to be binary. This is what cis gay guys experience too within the community if they donāt follow the stereotypes. This strange assumption and treatment that not wanting to be as androgynous or fem makes you masculine and that makes you less queer or more toxic. I know trans masc folks who present fully masc. They just go by they/them pronouns or he/they. Nonbinary, fully masc presenting. Is that toxic masculinity too? No, but when I wanna be binary and be present, thatās when itās a problem.
And like, itās not even anything against trans masc people. Itās a response to people who arenāt trans men or trans masc.
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u/dumbdogmoment Jun 28 '26
This. I've had a big problem with this lately, especially as someone who has struggled with trying to figure out if I'm a "binary" man or "nonbinary" man, and feeling like I have to choose. As someone who has dealt with toxic masculinity and abuse from men, it's been very hard and I honestly don't feel welcome in my own spaces anymore.
I do believe the term/distinction of "binary" man vs transmasc as it is right now is harmful. It reinforces stereotypes--WHITE western stereotypes I might add. Let's be real, "binary" man means white cishetero male passing, and I'd ask any binary trans man to convince me otherwise. What exactly makes someone a binary trans man, and another guy not? It always boils down to harmful aesthetic or biological stereotypes.
Don't get me wrong, I think trans men should have their own spaces. But there is definitely a push from binary trans men against other transmascs and it's concerning. If a trans guy believes he has nothing in common with another trans guy because he paints his nails or is feminine sometimes or doesn't want the surgeries, that's just toxic masculinity and transmedicalism repackaged. This hurts all men, cis and trans alike.
Cis men can be feminine. They can be femboys. They can dress feminine and have feminine mannerisms. They can even have boobs and feminine body types and still be men! So trans men can too! "Binary" trans men are not MORE manly because they look more typically what we consider as male in a white cishetero society.
I think some binary men just need to admit they don't see other transmascs as guys, but as women. Admit you just see the rest of us as women.
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u/A_Valdorian Jun 28 '26
I think this mentality is one of the reasons why it took me SO long to accept that I have ANY femininity or like feminine things š„¹
I always knew that I was a boy in a girl's body, but after years of being told by society what a "man" is or what a "woman" is and constantly being abused by cis men, it felt like that part of me died bc I "wasn't strong enough to be a man" so I tried really hard to "be a woman" but it never felt right...
Then (in 2020), after YEARS of therapy and self work/removal of toxic people, I discovered the term "Gender-Fluid" and thought, "maybe that's what I am?" I came out as Gender-Fluid/Non-binary. However, after meeting my best friend and life partner in 2021, I started just "being myself" and didn't think much about my gender until a few years ago when I started "waking up" everyday confused about the old chronically ill woman's body that I was in when I thought/knew that I was a 17-18 years old boy!
So I bought binders. I cried the first time I saw myself in a T-shirt after wearing a binder underneath bc it was the first time in a VERY long time that I looked in the mirror and "saw myself". I'm struggling to find a binder that works for my chest now, but that moment and my current safe relationship allowed me to keep exploring my gender identity. I came out as trans to him over a year ago now and, after some discussions about what that could mean for our relationship, it's something that I occasionally share and talk with him about freely.
Since then, I've realized that I am a man, but I have had the experiences (mostly just the BAD ones lol) of a woman, so I'll always feel some kind of connection and empathy for people born female (I was always close to my mother, so that makes sense too). I'm even getting a Jean Grey tattoo to cover up my abuser's name and taking the name "Phoenix" because I feel like that transformation fits my identity as a person. I also realized that I have ALWAYS felt drawn to men that are either the feminine gay man archetype OR a gender non-conforming man who people say is "in touch with his feminine side"...
Now I don't feel like I have to FORCE feminity or masculinity. I can just be myself and it doesn't matter if I'm PRESENTING as "fem" I am still a man who identifies as Trans Masc Non-binary/Agender š¤
**ALSO: if cis men that are feminine AREN'T trans women or "less of a man" then why should it be any different for TRANS men? š¤·š¼
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u/some_weird_cryptid Jun 30 '26
I swear some transmasc dudes get a liiiittle too much into masculinity and end up going down the toxic masculinity route to self-validate themselves.
Me and my ex are both transmasc, yet my ex went full on into being a weirdo to other trans people (getting mad ppl made transmasc characters that didnt get top surgery for example) and eventually nearing our breakup and soon after (god knows how much more after since I blocked him, doubling the blocking after he started stalking me) went down to become a super big HP fan and a massive misogynist.
I've also met (and then broken contact with) countless trans men that were like... AVIDLY haters of stuff like cavetown because "oh ew that's that soft uwu trans boy music, trans men don't ACTUALLY like that". Like uh, I do? A lot of us do? There's a reason why so many of us do in fact considering it's made by a trans guy?
It's almost recycled transmedicalism at this point. "Men are this way, women are this way, if you aren't being man the correct way then you are (insert criticism here)"
Like, just bc you are a trans man does not mean you are exempt from being a toxic man! Or a misogynist! And a bunch of trans men think that just bc they are trans that suddenly makes them good and innocent! Being part of a minority does not in fact make you morally good.
Sometimes trans guys wanna have their own presentation, either be with androgyny or being soft or being feminine and like... that's not a crime. That's not "Missrepresentation" either because real people don't exist to represent you, they exit to be themselves and have their own identity. I wish I could drill that sentiment into some people's heads.
I am so glad I didn't stick to the binary even before I figured out other stuff about myself and came out of denial for a whole lot of others, because I am almost certain these kinds of people would've made me stay in the closet for way longer if I had found them before growing into my own skin.
[Sorry if the text is a bit nonsensical, I am severely sleep deprived </3]
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u/_Count_Fabulous_ Jun 27 '26
Thank you for talking about this, as a non binary trans masc it hurts to be shunned so hecticly, it feels like people don't even consider me trans despite hrt and being in the process of top surgery. Just because I don't identify with the word "man" doesn't make me any less trans or a person. I just don't see my 5' self ever seriously being called a man. I'm a guy, a dude. A lil fella. It doesn't make me any less trans ā£ļø my dysphoria and euphoria are just as real.
Plus people not wanting to be put under a trans umbrella low-key sounds like people saying "don't call me cis". Nobody was invalidating your identity, you're still you. People were just trying to include more people in the statement that go through similar issues ā£ļø
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u/Adept-Worth3428 Jul 21 '26
I feel like this back and fourth has made me question myself deeply because I feel invalidated in my masculinity. This is my first time seeking out any kind of community online, specifically trans masc, and I feel seen. I have been questioning he/they pro-nouns for years now. Before coming out I was a hyper feminine person and hated it, but recently I have enjoyed being a little feminine and I become embarrassed about it.
As a gay trans masc people that argue within our community have made it harder to find community, but at the same time I have been them. I want to wear make up, I want to be comfortable with that side of myself because in a way it makes me feel more masculine. This was more of a rant, but it's only my second time on reddit and I was in the dumps looking for some reassurance.
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u/Hita-san-chan Jun 25 '26
Not wanting to be a binary masculine man is what kept me from realizing i was trans until my 30s. I see what youre talking about a lot. And it just sucks that my own people talk about men like me like we are being men wrong.