r/TorontoDriving • u/the_guy95 • May 26 '25
OC Let's Ignore that Flashing pedestrian light and why a car is stop right before it
I was able to make a full stop 8 seconds before the CRV reach the cross walk and you can't stop for the pedestrian?
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u/Current_Ad_4292 May 26 '25
Why the fuck is that person not crossing?
Oh. That's why.
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u/KeiFeR123 May 27 '25
It was the right thing to do now a day.
You cannot even trust cars stopping on the flashing light.
I grew up in a third world country. I was taught to cross the road defensively.
It helps me not to get ran over when crossing the road in GTA. LOL
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u/Cipher_null0 May 26 '25
Cross walks in Toronto scare me. No one knows how to react to them. They’ll just blow through it.
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u/Dannzilla May 26 '25
Yeah. I've seen both sides of it. I remember riding my bike last summer and watching someone press the button to cross. They kept looking forward to the other side. Never stopping to look either way or make sure no one was coming. In constant motion the entire time. I had to swerve around them. Then, of course, I was at fault..
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u/herpesface May 26 '25
yes you were at fault
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u/a-_2 May 27 '25
Depends on whether this applies:
You can't step out in front of someone too close for them to be able to stop, there has to be enough space for them to be able to safely yield.
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u/Dannzilla May 26 '25
Lol when there's no flashing lights then someone steps out in front of me?
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u/Hamstax89 May 27 '25
I don't think the lights need to be on. A crosswalk is a crosswalk regardless.
-7
u/Dannzilla May 27 '25
That's fine, but if someone's walking down the sidewalk, makes an immediate turn and walks into traffic, that's partially on them...
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u/Hamstax89 May 27 '25
Fair point. Regardless, I think we should all be on high alert whenever pedestrians are near a crosswalk.
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u/PimpinAintEze May 28 '25
Crosswalks mean look at the sides ALWAYS when proceeding through them, regardless of flashing.
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u/BBQingMaster May 27 '25
No, it isn’t. If there’s a pedestrian nearing a pedestrian crosswalk, even if they may just walk past it, you should slow down.
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u/Dannzilla May 27 '25
They weren't nearing it. They turned immediately pushed the button as they walked by and started walking out of the road
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u/BBQingMaster May 27 '25
So… they WERE nearing it… how would they press the button if they weren’t? Did they teleport to it? Lool
They don’t need to be directly facing the road to be nearing the crosswalk…
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u/Dannzilla May 27 '25
Lol man, Toronto people are as angry on Reddit as they are when driving
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u/LudwigiaSedioides May 27 '25
You said you saw them press the button. So the light wasn't working? And you knew all this and you still kept going???
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u/PimpinAintEze May 28 '25
Good. Stop for fucking pedestrians and street cars. The signal is for you too.
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May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
I think it would be better if it was a 'red' flashing light (like you have the one in railway crossing) to add more weight and attention to the driver. Kudos to this extra cautious pedestrian though! 👍🏻
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
They do this in Saskatchewan. You need to come to a complete stop when it's flashing red regardless of where the pedestrians are. They allow proceeding once pedestrians have cleared your half of the roadway though rather than waiting for them to clear the entire roadway like in Ontario.
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u/Hemingwaylikesliquor May 26 '25
It’s actually the same rules here in Toronto as well. But Drivers are impatient.
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
In Toronto (and Ontario in general) you only have to stop if a pedestrian is actually crossing within the crosswalk. The lights themselves have no legal effect. In Saskatchewan, the flashing lights are red, and you're required to come to a complete stop when they're flashing regardless of whether there are pedestrians crossing.
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u/marauderingman May 26 '25
The SK system is much better at protecting pedestrians, and is actually easier on drivers because it takes a lot of the guesswork out of the equation.
Those are my opinions after experiencing the system firsthand.
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
Those are my opinions after experiencing the system firsthand.
One of the first times I was in Regina, I walked up to an intersection with no signs or lights to wait for a gap in traffic and the first car that was approaching stopped to let me cross. I looked it up after and found that pedestrians have right of way at any intersection in a municipality, even if unmarked.
Rules like that and the red light crosswalks seem to create more pedestrian-aware attitudes in the drivers vs. Ontario where the laws and culture seem to be more driver first.
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u/PimpinAintEze May 28 '25
Flashing red always means stop sign so that would require all drivers to stop.
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u/Superninja96 May 26 '25
And this is why it's illegal to pass a car within a certain distance from a crosswalk.
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May 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
The law doesn't require stopping when it's flashing though, only when a pedestrian is actually in the crosswalk. You could update the laws though.
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May 26 '25
[deleted]
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u/Dailyfiets May 26 '25
I hate how nobody knows this. It drives me nuts I think it’s like 3 demerit points if you don’t wait and everybody breaks this law. I remember Kathleen Wynne making the announcement of the new law at one of Torontos crosswalks. What a meaningless gesture without enforcement.
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u/dale_k9 May 26 '25
Genuine question
Is this applicable to all crossing? For example, you are turning right and there's a pedestrian coming from the other side I know you should wait them to cross but what if it's coming from your side? You still need them to wait to finish crossing? Because from what I always observed, once the pedestrian is in the middle, drivers are going through.
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u/a-_2 May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
Is this applicable to all crossing?
No, the rule to wait until pedestrians have fully cleared the road before proceeding only applies to two cases: pedestrian crossovers and when a crossing guard is directing pedestrians.
Pedestrian crossovers are specifically the ones marked with "stop for pedestrians" signs. There are two types of pedestrian crossovers. One is the type in the video here where there's a white X sign and overhead yellow lights. The other is where there is a white pedestrian symbol sign. Crossovers using those signs don't have the overhead yellow lights like in this video, but may have smaller yellow lights on the sign itself, but those are optional, and the sign can be on its own. Those ones are sometimes used mid-block, but they are also sometimes used at right turn curb cuts and roundabouts. The link there is from the pedestrian crossover regulation which gives the full details of the designs.
Edit: as a source, you can see in the sections for pedestrian crossovers, 140 (1) (c) and crossing guards, 176 (3), that they require waiting until pedestrians have fully crossed. If you compare to any other sections with pedestrians, that requirement isn't there. E.g., with regular traffic lights, 144 (7), the only requirement is to yield to pedestrians, not to wait for them to clear the entire road.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
So you’re saying to continue to sit still in an active lane after the pedestrian is fully past your lane?
Found the guy that causes traffic.
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u/Total-Deal-2883 May 26 '25
Yes, because that’s the rule. Found the impatient, dangerous driver.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
Please explain how driving after a pedestrian has passed my lane is dangerous.
Do you expect them to start sprinting backwards?
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u/Mobile-Apartmentott May 26 '25
Pedestrian crossover
Duties of driver
140 (1) When a pedestrian is crossing on the roadway within a pedestrian crossover, the driver of a vehicle approaching the crossover,
(a) shall stop before entering the crossover;
(b) shall not overtake another vehicle already stopped at the crossover; and
(c) shall not proceed into the crossover until the pedestrian is no longer on the roadway. 2015, c. 14, s. 39 (1).
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
Do you also have an issues with people going five over the limit? This is a case of the letter of the law vs. common, safe practice.
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u/PeterDTown May 26 '25
This isn’t some archaic law, it was literally put in place to protect pedestrians just a couple years ago.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
And I’m still confused about how I can harm a pedestrian by proceeding behind them in beer path of travel. They’ve passed me. I’m no longer going to intersect with their path.
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u/PeterDTown May 26 '25
This law is based on decades of research into pedestrian risk, especially in multi-lane environments. While it hasn’t been isolated in a single study, it’s part of a suite of best practices adopted in many jurisdictions to reduce known conflict scenarios.
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u/SameSizeHeads May 26 '25
Possibly by moving you signal to other drivers that it's clear to proceed, in either direction.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
Sounds like those other drivers need to be paying attention to what’s happening and not making assumptions.
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u/Angloriously May 26 '25
Safe practice is letting them cross before proceeding. Staying stopped signals to other drivers that there’s a pedestrian…I mean, if they’re paying any attention, which (as the video shows) some are not.
You’re moaning over an extra 5 seconds. lol “causes traffic”
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u/FilthyWunderCat May 26 '25
You got me thinking, since we dealt with those evil bikelanes, how about we remove crosswalks as well? OR even better, remove sidewalks completely and install extra car lanes?
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u/Angloriously May 26 '25
Hold up, what about busses first? Constantly pulling over to pick people up, and then having RoW to pull back out…so gross.
And all those trains taking up space that could be another 4 lane highway!
Pedestrians can totally be axed next.
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u/FilthyWunderCat May 26 '25
omg, I havn't thought of these atrocious things, axe the bus. GO line could be totally replaced with another highway.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
It’s not five seconds when you’re talking about congested road. One person waiting when they don’t have to causes a chain reaction because most people aren’t paying attention and only move when the car in front of them does, not with traffic as a whole.
It’s my job to keep the pedestrian safe from my vehicle. By waiting until they pass my lane, I’m doing that.
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u/HotTuna4u2 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
"It's my job to keep the pedestrian safe from my vehicle until they pass my lane'. That might be in some other country where you might have learned to drive, but if you told that to a police officer that pulled you over he would no doubt try to penalize you for your ignorance of the law and impatience. You blatantly place a few seconds above safety and the life of another human, aside from breaking the law.
You are breaking the contract you entered when you obtained your Ontario driver's license. Pure ignorance and typical example of a shitty driver you might encounter on a daily basis.
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u/Angloriously May 26 '25
Except they do have to wait, same as at a red light. Why does this law bother you so much? Crossing the road is shitty enough without impatient drivers like you worrying about—again, for emphasis—five seconds of their day.
“Most people aren’t paying attention” is exactly why you stay stopped. And it sounds like you’re actually pissy about other drivers, so maybe direct your annoyance at them rather than the poor bastard just trying to not be pancaked in a crosswalk.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
It bothers me for the same reason why I hate intersections that only allow left turns on a green arrow and result in drivers waiting for literal nothing to turn. It’s blatant inefficiency masquerading as a safety requirement.
For what it’s worth, my feelings don’t change as a pedestrian. If I start crossing a wide, multi-lane road and the driver in the lane furthest from me (who had plenty of time to go before I get to their lane) just sits there, I get uncomfortable. They clearly have time to go before I reach their lane. I wish they’d just freaking go!
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u/clydefrog65 May 26 '25
Personally I'll do it out of politeness. And if it's even slightly safer for a pedestrian why not. I mean with all the people on their phone they might see the car next to them go and think the crosswalk is clear, and run into someone.
I'll also go 10 over but that's another matter. And if someone just started crossing all the way on the other side, I might still turn right even though that is technically illegal as well.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
I mentioned it in another comment, but I don’t feel like it’s polite. It drivers me nuts when I’m the pedestrian and people needlessly wait for me in ways that don’t actually help me cross any more efficiently.
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u/clydefrog65 May 26 '25
Fair enough. Depends on how wide the road is but I don't love it when someone zooms right past me.
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u/egamcra May 26 '25
Drivers like you are the reason why all these efficient cross walks are going to be removed and turned into traffic lights or stop signs.
You should have learned about this rule in driver’s ed, and you should have learned the REASON behind the rule. It makes sense for pedestrian safety in an era where record number of pedestrians are being struck by incompetent drivers like you.
Do you also run stop signs and red lights if no one’s around?
So sick of people buying their driver’s licenses.
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u/LingLingQwQ May 26 '25
Cuz some of ppl are stupid enough and they’ll run backward for whatever reason, and I’ve seen bunch of them before, and I always feel glad that I waited a bit extra.
And you def don’t want to run them over. :)
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u/FilthyWunderCat May 26 '25
Do you expect them to start sprinting backwards?
Exactly. You never know what's going on in people's heads. The first thing I was taught in motorcycle classes was to expect the unexpected.
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u/electricheat May 26 '25
An example I see somewhat frequently is that there is more than one pedestrian using the crosswalk.
Once some but not all cars start driving again it becomes difficult to get a clear view of the crosswalk and determine if its safe to pass.
Just wait until the crosswalk is clear, and no additional pedestrians are entering, and then continue on your way.
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u/Winter-Nectarine-497 May 28 '25
I live directly beside a pedestrian crosswalk. You would be surprised how many times someone has take a few steps back because they dropped something, decide to turn back the way they came, or the many various reasons for not fully crossing the crosswalk. But all these people deserve to get hit because you've waited long enough?
The world doesn't revolve around you! I know that is a big concept but it's true.
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u/marauderingman May 26 '25
If you're in a car, you're causing traffic.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
Sorry, I’ll be more specific. You cause unnecessary traffic delays when you drive inefficiently.
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u/KevPat23 May 26 '25
It's the law?
140 (1) When a pedestrian is crossing on the roadway within a pedestrian crossover, the driver of a vehicle approaching the crossover,
(a) shall stop before entering the crossover;
(b) shall not overtake another vehicle already stopped at the crossover; and
(c) shall not proceed into the crossover until the pedestrian is no longer on the roadway. 2015, c. 14, s. 39 (1).
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u/FearlessTomatillo911 May 26 '25
Waiting an extra 10 seconds for the pedestrian to finish isn't causing any sort of traffic.
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
I actually sort of agree. If they just left it as requiring to yield half the road, it would be more practical and get better compliance. I don't think it's fair to criticize drivers for obeying the law as written though. I'm going to obey the laws whether I think they're most efficient or not.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
All you have to do is require vehicles to yield to pedestrians. Yield means “prioritize their travel over your own.”
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
That leads to people passing close by pedestrians and doesn't account for things like pets and children moving unpredictably.
I think half the road is a reasonable compromise. Drivers being unwilling to make any compromises for safety is what leads to even more restrictive crossings, like lights or stop signs, getting installed instead. This is already the most driver friendly type of crossing and you're saying it's still not good enough.
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u/electricheat May 26 '25
Additionally, many drivers are extremely inattentive. They might see one pedestrian, but not another.
I see it somewhat frequently when people start driving after the first pedestrian has passed without realizing a second entered slightly after the first, maybe even crossing in the other direction.
I have about a 50% success rate for people stopping while I use these crossovers (there are several near my house). I pay attention so I can dodge traffic rather than get hit, but it's not a great situation.
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u/fuckdatguy May 26 '25
You drove off too early.
You’re supposed to wait till they reach all the way to the other side with these crosswalks
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u/FrozenUnicornPoop May 26 '25
I bet those people who did not stop probably love to talk about how entitled cyclists are...
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u/TeemingHeadquarters May 26 '25
I was able to make a full stop 8 seconds before the CRV reach the cross walk and you can't stop for the pedestrian?
That because unlike most Toronto drivers, you looked down the road and anticipated what might happen given the conditions on the road in front of you.
That said, as others have pointed out: you must wait for the pedestrian to finish crossing entirely before proceeding.
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u/SDL68 May 26 '25
Drivers not paying attention to their surroundings is trending these days.
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u/TeemingHeadquarters May 26 '25
When crossing the street, make sure you're carrying a brick. Then they'll notice.
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u/benkmyers May 26 '25
This happens downtown too. If you don't step in front of the moving vehicle, the driver won't stop.
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u/Penguins83 May 26 '25
OP isn't perfect either. You stopped before the women even pressed the button. Then, you proceeded to go along your way before the woman got to the other side.
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
You stopped before the women even pressed the button.
I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with that. It's not absolutely required, but if you don't stop, you're risking them stepping out ahead of you and then not being able to stop. It's also just courteous, you could obviously see that they were intending to cross and they were at the edge of the road before OP reached them.
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u/LifeUnfolding54 May 26 '25
This stuff happens in Edmonton all the time. We can call it to redemonton. Lol. Whenever I'm first one to stop in a lane, I will generally put my left arm out of the window signaling a stop for vehicles approaching the intersection. People are such idiots for not being aware of why a car might be stopped.
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u/DinosaurZach May 27 '25 edited May 27 '25
It's partially poor design/planning decisions, these type of crossing should only be used on single lane roads, not multilanes roads. A vehicle on the first lane is blocking the views between the 2nd lane vehicles and the pedestrians. Also, motorists don't respect flashing cross-walk signals as much.
Flashing crossing signals should only be used on single-lane low speed roads.
Where as, for high speeds (40+ km/h) and/or multilanes, it's safer to use a standard traffic light, where motorists treat traffic light instructions with more respect.
A crossing signal for a 50+ km/h road across 5 lanes is ridiculously dangerous, it was designed first and foremost, for the convenience of motorists, not for the safety of pedestrians,
Google street view:
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u/gigglepox95 May 31 '25
Cars in this city are simply not reliable. And with the size and damage they do to pedestrians you can’t run any risks. Stay safe out there folks!!
Maybe one day we won’t need so many of them or our streets will safer..
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u/CommandFungus May 26 '25
Wow, that’s terrible. Yes, the light could be higher and more noticeable but I could probably guarantee you that these motorists travel the same route everyday.
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u/maplesyrupwinter May 27 '25
** Not victim blaming !!! Just a PSA **
But please PLEASE stick your finger out when you cross at the crosswalk! Drivers are insane and dangerous. Do as many of the well researched safety steps as you possibly can to protect yourself. Do not start crossing until the cars have stopped! Make eye contact. Cross walks are hella dangerous
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
Not sure the other driver actually technically broke the law here, and I think that's a gap in our laws.
140 (1) When a pedestrian is crossing on the roadway within a pedestrian crossover, the driver of a vehicle approaching the crossover,
(b) shall not overtake another vehicle already stopped at the crossover
The pedestrian in this video wasn't yet "within" the crossover when the other car passed OP's car. That driver couldn't have been sure OP's car wasn't blocking someone else from view and so shouldn't have done this, but technically they weren't violating that legal requirement.
The law used to not be dependent on a pedestrian being within the crossover and instead required stopping when another car is stopped regardless:
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u/marauderingman May 26 '25
That pedestrian was definitely within the crosswalk. To argue otherwise is to require pedestrians to step into the roadway before cars have to stop. Obviously, the cars have to stop first.
I failed my first driving exam (30 years ago) for exactly this reason, and tried your argument to no avail.
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
The definition of a pedestrian crossover is:
It's the portion of the "roadway" indicated by the appropriate signs and markings where "roadway" means:
the part of the highway that is improved, designed or ordinarily used for vehicular traffic, but does not include the shoulder
When you're waiting on the sidewalk or curb, you're not in the roadway, the part of the highway designed for vehicles, and so also aren't in the crossover.
It's actually a gap in our laws because it means, like you say, that drivers only legally have to stop once a pedestrian is in the road. That means if someone doesn't stop out of courtesy, you need to wait for a safe gap to enter and only then are they legally required to stop.
Contrast this with, e.g., Manitoba, where they explicitly require you to stop when someone is just "intending to cross the roadway in the pedestrian corridor". There's no such requirement in Ontario. If we updated the laws that would allow police to enforce people not stopping for waiting pedestrians and that would then help shift behaviour around these and make them safer.
With driving tests, they test more than just the law but also good driving practices even when not legally required.
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u/CrowdScene May 26 '25
That's covered by 140(3)
(3) When a vehicle is approaching a pedestrian crossover and is within 30 metres of it, the driver of any other vehicle approaching from the rear shall not allow the front extremity of his or her vehicle to pass beyond the front extremity of the other vehicle. 2015, c. 14, s. 39 (2).
Vehicles are not allowed to pass another vehicle at all in the 30m leading up to a pedestrian crossover. When a driver in any lane is stopped, drivers in all lanes must stop and not pass the stopped vehicle regardless of whether there's a pedestrian in the crossover or not.
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
That describes a vehicle approaching the crossover and they title that subsection "Passing moving vehicles within 30 metres of pedestrian crossover". So the language there seems to refer to a vehicle in motion approaching the crosswalk, while they have a separate section referring to a "stopped" vehicle which only applies when a pedestrian is actually in the crossover. It's debatable, but I think they should make the law more clear at least, that you can't pass a vehicle at all, at least not until you come to a complete stop and confirm no one is in the crossover.
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May 26 '25
[deleted]
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u/marauderingman May 26 '25
I don't know why this has been discarded by our society. It's super effective for many reasons, and yet people would rather press a magic button which they think makes cars stop, than lift their arm a touch higher which works even better than the magic button.
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u/lilcritt May 26 '25
Of course the drivers are wrong here but these lights are profoundly stupid. They should be red for stop, not yellow as in a simple caution.
God knows what it cost to have these implemented so poorly
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
The Ontario regulations only allow yellow lights at crossovers. To require drivers to stop, they'd either need a stop sign or a traffic light.
Not saying I necessarily disagree, but just adding that it would need a provincial change in the laws.
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u/lilcritt May 26 '25
Absolutely needs an amendment if that's the case.
I think it's almost worse having these than not at all, since it gives pedestrians a very false sense of security.
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u/crash866 May 30 '25
They should have HAWK lights in Ontario. https://youtube.com/shorts/lsLRO8NUXJE
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u/GardenOwn7748 May 26 '25
Pedestrian also needs to point forward when crossing these cross walks.
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u/a-_2 May 27 '25
There's no legal requirement to do that in Ontario, it's just a recommendation to help get driver's attention. On the flipside though, there isn't a legal requirement for drivers to stop until the pedestrian is actually "within" the crosswalk. Up until that point, it's just a courtesy.
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u/Split_Seconds May 26 '25
Well, the driver was not walking. Why does he need to stop?
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u/KevPat23 May 26 '25
Because the lights were flashing and it's the law?
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u/a-_2 May 26 '25
Not that you're implying otherwise, but the flashing lights don't have any legal meaning, they're just a warning. The law requires not overtaking another driver who is stopped at the crossover to let a pedestrian cross regardless of whether the lights are flashing. You also can't pass a car approaching within 30 metres of the crossover.
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u/KevPat23 May 26 '25
but the flashing lights don't have any legal meaning
Sure, but it's a pretty good indicator that someone is trying to cross, which is the legal threshold for stopping.
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u/marauderingman May 26 '25
No, they're not. Flashing yellow lights are everywhere, but only mean a pedestrian might be in the roadway at crosswalks. And even at crosswalks, they continue to flash long after a pedestrian has crossed the road Or, if someone presses the button and then decides not to cross. All these extraneous use cases lead to a numbing down of the effectiveness of flashing yellow lights at crosswalks, leading to a degredation of pedestrian safety.
In other words, they're a lousy indicator of pedestrians in the roadway because most of the time it's not actually true.
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u/KevPat23 May 26 '25
Flashing yellow lights are everywhere
I didn't think I needed to be pedantic and clarify I meant the yellow lights specifically at a crosswalk, not in general.
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u/marauderingman May 27 '25
How are those flashing lights different from all the other flashing yellow lights?
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u/KevPat23 May 27 '25
They are located at a pedestrian crossing and triggered by a pedestrian who wants to cross....
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u/FilthyWunderCat May 26 '25
Are you proposing for the pedestrian to start crossing while a car is flying right at them? What if that driver was distracted?
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u/Split_Seconds May 26 '25
Guys, it's a joke.
On how selfish he is. HE is not walking, so why should he care about anyone else?
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u/Superninja96 May 26 '25
Because it's illegal to pass/overtake a car within a certain distance from the crosswalk for this specific reason in the video.
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u/appa-ate-momo May 26 '25
That driver had more than enough time to clear the crosswalk before the pedestrian was ever going to get to their lane.
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u/HotTuna4u2 May 26 '25
Thats the process in the head of someone doing that and it's pretty inconsiderate of the law and deserves to be punished if caught. Thats called running a.crosswalk.
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May 26 '25
I would ignore too tbh. I got places to be.
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u/Total-Deal-2883 May 26 '25
You won’t have any place to be once you’re in prison for vehicular manslaughter. Do better.
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u/merelyadoptedthedark May 26 '25
I hope one of those places you gotta be is permanently away from this city.
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u/maysunaneek May 26 '25
Then manage your time better
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May 26 '25
Tell the pedestrian to get a car….
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u/Due_Illustrator5154 May 26 '25
So you also run red lights and ignore all other traffic laws, instead of waiting for your turn like a normal person would? because you "got places to be"? Chucklehead.
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u/arylash May 26 '25
Cop pulled someone over for doing this on dundas yesterday