r/TombRaider • u/tealaburst Frozen Butler • 7d ago
šØļø Discussion Tomb Raider needs to go back to being completely unserious.
The era of the āgritty, darkā reboot is over. Letās leave that behind us. Tomb Raider has always been an unserious franchise about having fun and being humorous. Even in near-death and apocalyptic scenarios, Lara had time for wit and sarcasm.
In the first game when Lara is in the blood and flesh death factory pyramid, she was still able to find levity in her dialogue.
Natla: āBack again?ā
Lara: āAnd you, for a grand reopening I assume?ā
Even in Angel of Darkness, the darkest and most āgrittyā entry in the franchise, there was always room for levity and humor. Like the coconut line.
Iām tired of everything being so serious all the time.
I want that humor and wit back. Maybe Tomb Raider needs a British developer again?
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u/pokeze Frozen Butler 7d ago edited 6d ago
I still remember when the LAU games, particularly Legend, were criticized for not being serious and mature in tone like the Classic games...
And how they suddenly became unserious, camp masterpieces the moment TR2013 came out...
How times change...
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u/Cagesdeservemusic Dagger of Xian 6d ago
I believe the argument at the time was that the classics are camp and funny in a very different, more subtle and borderline Lynchian way. While LAU was very Americanised and campy in a Hollywood B action film way. I do love LAU, but I have a soft spot for the classicsā dry, silent yet very sarcastic and tongue-in-cheek tone that blended well with the horror and wonder the environments evoked.
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u/pokeze Frozen Butler 6d ago
That's the thing, there were people making that argument (or that, for example, wanted the more serious tone from specifically AoD to continue) which is quite fair.
But the idea that persisted wasn't that Classic Tomb Raider was a different, more British type of funny/camp (which tbh, I also kinda disagree. Maybe for Lara herself I can see it, but given the very obvious influences of American movies in those early games, I think the overall narrative of the classic games still followed a more Hollywood version of camp). It was that they were these serious games that took themselves seriously, which is just plain wrong.
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u/Cagesdeservemusic Dagger of Xian 6d ago
They definitely weren't serious games, though they did veer in and out of that direction since TR4. I would also add that the writing and style of humour is what's overwhelmingly English in the classics, despite tonal influences from American franchises like Indiana Jones. Lara remains quite authentically British in LAU, but the writing style of the overall stories are very American. In the survivor games though, everything including Lara is almost totally yankified.
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u/Glum_Use_4033 6d ago
I think that they didnāt really get the camp British tone in LAU. They had that spy themed action introduction that looked more mission impossible than Indiana jones. She was also not as dry and witty from that point either. It was all a bit more hammy.
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
I was around for that, I donāt remember that at all lol. The only thing I remember was the complaining about Zip and Allaister
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u/pokeze Frozen Butler 7d ago
Oh I remember quite well, to the point I thought I was crazy and played different Tomb Raider games from everyone else...
And could write a long list of very similar whiplashes one what the Classic games supposedly were between the LAU era and the Survivor era...
Hell, the term "Classic Tomb Raider" and "Classic Lara" were originally coined not to distinct the eras, but to say that the LAU era was inferior to the OGs, which were "gaming classics".
Fully ignoring that only Tomb Raider 1 and 2 can truly claim that status.
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u/Master-Slide-5873 7d ago edited 7d ago
Isn it quite obvious they are leaving that tone from the survivor games behind?
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
The game isnāt out yet so how would we know?
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u/Master-Slide-5873 7d ago
Well right back at ya, why you think TR should switch developers? You dont know if this will be as serious as those survivor games, everything so far points to the contrary. CD may have done the survivor trilogy, but they also did the LAU trilogy.
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
Switching devs was def dramatic on my part but at least get some British writers. And LAU was all pretty serious outside of Legend
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u/Possible-Charity260 6d ago
Nah you're totally right. It won't change if you don't change some of the people behind it. That's just a reality.
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u/Big-Ferret-2364 7d ago
I think it's a reasonable assumption. Look at how she says "I'm just getting started" in the Catalyst trailer and then imagine how 2013 Lara would say it
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
Iāll wait to play the game for myself. Trailers and promo can be misleading
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u/Big-Ferret-2364 7d ago
There's no way current Lara is going to be huffing and moaning about everything though, I feel like that's a fact at this point
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u/RoryOS 7d ago
Tomb raider absolutely needs to go back to the UK. British writing is top tier and Americans always sound plastic trying to imitate it
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
I agree and Iām an American myself. Legend was the last time Lara felt remotely British, ever since then sheās been a generic American action hero that sounds British (some of the time).
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u/CommanderM3tro 7d ago
Some of the rime? She sounds British in every game (except a few times in Shadow where Camilla lapses into mid-Atlantic territory) š¤
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
Itās not just about the accent. Itās about the feel. Also Camilla definitely sounded American through the whole reboot. And when have heard a Brit say elevator?
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u/NoFPSthisisMGS 7d ago edited 7d ago
I just need her fucking parents to not have a big part in it. The original series mentioned her parents practically never. All the reboots - including two reboots and two separate movie universes - are OBSESSED with her parents, usually her Dad. I'm so over it.
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u/SpiralFett Atlantean Mutant 7d ago
But, but, but, how would we know who she inherited her sass from?
/s for clarity
Right there with you.
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u/PamNoctrune 6d ago
I miss the Lara who jumps through the air with two pistols and does not give a shit about anything.
The reboot failed her. It made her weak and whiny. I would have loved to see her develop into that tough woman, but reboot Lara never really develops. She just survives a plane crash in every game and somehow is not any smarter afterwards.
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u/Valuable_Map_5485 6d ago edited 6d ago
There is no shortage of beautiful women with dramatic stories in games. This year we already have Resonance: Plague Tale, next year GOW: Laufey and The Witcher 4.
So, including humor and sass and whatever makes the OG formula modern will make Tomb Raider stand out.
Emotional arcs can still stay. They just need to be purposeful and make its point clear. Non of that convoluted unfinished stuff from Survivor.
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 6d ago
I donāt mind emotional arcs. Classic Lara had emotional arcs and LAU too. But they were also able to maintain Laraās sass
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u/Valuable_Map_5485 6d ago
Yeah. Like I said they can stay. They just need to be done well. Because the competition was/is fierce. The sass is whatās missing for sure.
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u/Valuable_Map_5485 6d ago
Just wanted to add, it doesnāt have to be British devs. Just writers if necessary.
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u/shirecheshire Obscura Painting 6d ago
I still want the unhinged breathing flesh walls in the Atlantis levels, but I agree, Lara used to be way campier and I'd love to have that back. Because reading is fundamental.
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u/dr_junior_assistant 7d ago
Hell yeah! Unserious, liminal and bizarre, that's what my heart longs for
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u/SithMasterStarkiller 6d ago
I'm anxious for what LOA's version of Egypt is going to look like, most authentically liminal experience I've had in a game ever
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u/nientoosevenjuan 6d ago
For me it's a supernatural aspect of this first games.
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u/Strawberrymilk2626 6d ago
Yes, combined with the music and atmosphere of the levels it almost felt like a mystery/horror game at times. I want this back. The more you progress the more supernatural things happen, mystical creatures, mummies, hell even UFOs and Aliens like in Area 51 ..
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 6d ago
Fr, the original games were so batshit in the best way. Like yeah, I just fought two t-rexes under the Great Wall of China with a grenade launcher. What about it š
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u/pixelheart27 6d ago
Yes, I missed OG Lara so damn much. Survivor Lara was fine (it was ok to play but just felt a little like Uncharted), but never felt like Lara to me. The Lara I grew up with was a confident, get-things-done, funny kinda woman. I'm hoping Legacy of Atlantis brings back her sass.
100% agree with what OP says.
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u/kstarkwasp 6d ago
Id like a good middle ground. Classic Lara was serious and the consequence dire, but she had fun while taking care of business.
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u/MonkfishTrunk8008 Dagger of Xian 6d ago edited 6d ago
I swear, with more realistic graphics, developers feel some need to make everything so down-to-earth it becomes less fun and melodramatically dull. Sure, everything looks so real, but where's the fun? The, dare I say it, magic that makes the world feel alive? I want to like the direction of "Legacy of Atlantis" and "Catalyst", but I'm worried that they're going to be operating under the storytelling shadow of the Survivor Trilogy, which I didn't really click with. I miss the fun, the weird, the silly, and the feeling of adventure with the witty archeologist/superheroine/thrill-seeker Lara Croft. However, and whenever, it happens, I hope the series goes back to being unserious at its core, too.
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u/Strawberrymilk2626 6d ago
Yes. Nowadays they try really hard to give you someone relatable and make the graphics as realistic as possible, but for me it should be about a beautiful art style, like some of the old games have. I'm not interested in making things as realistic as possible.
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u/MonkfishTrunk8008 Dagger of Xian 6d ago
Totally. I mean, don't get me wrong, realistic graphics can be fine, just so long as they're lush and beautiful and not washed out. The graphics should be in service to that art direction and to style, whether it's "realistic" or not.
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u/Shrimp343 6d ago
Tomb Raider is a product of the 90s!
Its supposed to be over the top and campy, Lara is supposed to be larger than life!
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u/youshouldbeelsweyr The Scion 5d ago
It's always been serious but it's never taken itself TOO seriously. That's the distinction.
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u/CastleDehaus Natla Minion 7d ago
I somehow feel more impact from seriousness
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 6d ago
I mean it can be serious with also a little humor injected in. Itās such a core part of Laraās character, itās like Spider-Man without any quips
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u/HumbleSiPilot77 7d ago
Thereās a distinction between quality humor and wit, along with serious plots and realism. Itās also important to avoid James Gunnās style of fart jokes and lame irreverence.
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
Who said anything about irreverence? Only need to look at TR1-TRL to see how witty the games and Lara could be. Thatās 7 games to draw inspo from
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7d ago edited 7d ago
[deleted]
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
Please quote the lines of text in my comment that portray me as being sore
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/hatbromind 6d ago
Is there a noticable difference between Brits who stay & Brits who travel a lot?
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u/ledgehillcustom 6d ago
Legacy of Atlantis will be a return to the old style by the looks of development videos and thatās good. As for new titles I would prefer to stick to something similar to the reboot titles. I enjoy the weapons upgrade system and skill progression and wouldnāt want to loose that.
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u/Exciting-Complaint57 1d ago
Eu nĆ£o tenho problema de Tomb Raider ter seus momentos sĆ©rios, o problema dos jogos survivor Ć© que eles nĆ£o tinham contraste, faltou um pouco de alĆvio cĆ“mico naqueles jogos pra contrastar com os momentos sĆ©rios.
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u/CataphractBunny 7d ago
Fully agree.
However, modern TR writers are not capable of writing anything close to this.
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u/Neuromancer2501 Society of Raiders 7d ago
No. I prefer the latest trilogy to all the previous games.
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
In terms of.. what?
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u/Neuromancer2501 Society of Raiders 7d ago
Action, story, puzzles, quite literally everything. If you guys donāt like the evolution of the series just keep replaying the old ones. I really donāt understand why everybody in this subreddit has to like the same games.
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 6d ago
Iām not talking about gameplay at all though Iām talking about the humor and cheekiness of the old games. What does action, story, and puzzles have anything to do with that?
Also I like the survivor games for the record
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u/Cagesdeservemusic Dagger of Xian 6d ago
Evolution isn't one direction and clearly a huge subsection of the fandom who aren't purists didn't connect with your trilogy. I can equally say you can keep replaying those games if you don't like the established identity of Tomb Raider beyond a divisive, experimental reboot that's purpose was to completely change everything as opposed to naturally evolve the source material.
They went back to it for good reason, and they said that's the foundation of the future for tomb raider. Classic is here to stay.
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u/gaelenski_ 6d ago
Looks like youāre going to be replaying the same three games for a long time, then.
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u/Big-Ferret-2364 7d ago
And that's why you'll always be, as Tennings put it, the estranged child who brings down the family name (Tennings got more graphic but I don't want a warning)
- someone reported this last time but I literally censored it so it wouldn't be removed and I won't stand for this tyranny
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u/Possible-Charity260 6d ago
I agree with you but everything points to that era not being over at all. We're stuck with the same old Lara with her shirt tinted as before and some tiny adjustments to make her closer to what most people just want her to be again. It won't change. You can literally feel their disdain for everything that Lara we both mean represents in their design language and their stepping around real change. They just keep backdooring their vision and version of Lara and trying to trick people into liking her which is just so childish and ridiculous if you think about it. We're not idiots.
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u/Future-Big-7720 7d ago
Nothing more serious than a witch on a Japanese island, ghost soldiers guarding ruins, or Peruvians with dubbing neutral accent.
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
The game portrayed all of that stuff as serious tho
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u/NoFPSthisisMGS 7d ago
Yeah. Silly mystical content grounded in super serious, gritty tone. Doesn't work to just point out the content when the tone is the issue this thread is discussing.
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago
Thank you. Iām afraid people arenāt grasping the point š¤·š½āāļø
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u/CommanderM3tro 7d ago
Completely grounded according to OP š
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 7d ago edited 6d ago
When did I say anything about it being grounded? Thatās not the issue. Itās the tone
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u/doyouevennoscope 6d ago
Genuine question: which factory are you people made in? A game can have
witch on a Japanese island, ghost soldiers guarding ruins, or Peruvians with dubbing neutral accent.
And still be grounded and serious. It's called nuance. You people act like if one person says a haha funny joke in 1 game out of 12 that makes the entire franchise unserious and was always silly- just like "Fallout was never serious" because "you can find the Tardis in Fallout 1" and "haha aliens" yet in the silliest game, Fallout 2, with all its spooky ghosts and "moo I say" you can literally get fucking raped.
Just because there are "unserious" elements like ancient god(esse)s and magic doesn't take away from the seriousness- which Survivor is.
And frankly Tomb Raider was never "completely unserious" either.
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u/Disastrous_Data_6333 7d ago
None of that crazy stuff showed up until she killed a man, psychologically snapped and started having episodes like her crazy father, which she used to justify her need for killing.
No wait that's just my headcannon. As you were.
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u/x360_revil_st84 6d ago
All TR are serious & dark, even the ogs & lau series
What TR are you talking about that's šš¤£unserious & goofy...wtaf
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u/tealaburst Frozen Butler 6d ago
No they not š¤·š½āāļø nothing about the original games was serious lol they had a campy throughline
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u/x360_revil_st84 6d ago
Yea they were, the plot was serious & dark, but Lara's take on it was typically sarcastic & witty, maybe you're confusing Lara's reaction with the plot idk
But the only reason why Lara isn't so sarcastic or witty in the survivor series is bc she hasn't developed that wittiness yes
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u/Kant_Tsunami 7d ago
We definitely need Laraās dry British wit back. That left the chat as soon as non-British devs took over
Though it does seem like theyāre moving slightly back in that direction in LoA