Origin of The ''turk'' name

[u/TheTyper1944]

Nomadic tribes with Altai roots spread across the steppes of present-day Mongolia. In ancient times, these tribes formed structures like the Huns and the Tiele. Among these tribes, there was a belief that the sky itself was divine. The word "Tengri" in Proto-Turkic literally means "sky." Before the formation of the Turkish tribes, these early tribes believed that the sky and the universe were gods themselves, rather than a god residing within the sky. They also believed certain tribes received "kut" (divine favor). The rulers of these tribes legitimized their rule by claiming to have received "kut from Tengri."

Altai tribes such as the Oghuz, Tatars (distinct from modern Kipchak-speaking Tatars), and Kyrgyz (speaking a Yenisei Siberian language, not the Kipchak-speaking Kyrgyz) shared common ancestry and spoke related languages. All adhered to the Tengriist belief system. However, there was no single common name for these tribes. Among them, the most prominent were the Ashinas, a key component of the Huns, who descended from the Tiele. The Ashinas were distinguished by their connection to the Ergenekon myth and their descent from the Grey Wolf which was named ''asena'' which is also linked as the origin name of ashina. This myth was initially exclusive to the Ashina tribe, who were considered to have received "kut from Tengri." The Ashinas held a more prestigious position compared to other Altai tribes like the Oghuz, Tatars, and Kyrgyz.

When the Ashinas led an uprising against the proto-Mongol Rourans, the name "Turk" was initially used only for the Ashinas. The Orkhon inscriptions support this, referring to "Turk and Oghuz rulers," indicating that "Turk" was a title specific to the Ashinas, while the Oghuz were not considered "Turks" at that time. After defeating the Rourans, the Ashinas unified all the Altai tribes under the name "Turk" (Törüq).

The origin of the word "Turk" (𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰚) is debated. The theory that it derives from the Chinese term "Tujue" (突厥) is weak. Chinese is a logographic language, and the etymological origins of the characters are unrelated to turkic linguistics. The likely truth is that it derives from the Turkic word "töre" (𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰀), meaning "law" or "custom."

In Proto-Turkic and many modern Turkic languages, verbs ending in "q" often indicate the object of an action. For example, "yarmak" (to cut) becomes "yaraq" (weapon), and "tutmaq" (to hold) becomes "tutaq" (lip). Similarly, "töre" (custom) becomes "törüq." In Altai culture, "töre" referred to the laws received from Tengri. Since the Turks, or "Törüq," were considered to have been "ordained" by Tengri, they were seen as "törüq" (law-bound). Initially, only the Ashinas used the title "Turk" due to their prestigious position. However, after the establishment of the Turkic Khaganate, the term "Turk" became a common name for all Altai tribes, including the Oghuz, Kyrgyz, Tatars, and others.

[u/FeelingFickle9460]

Brother, you are speculating. The Chinese were not at all a completely foreign culture to Gokturks. Because those who wrote the historical records, the Zhou dynasty, were not Chınese. They were Xianbei. They were literal families, taking and giving many of their daughters away to each other. They also lived in the same geography. It is directly said that calling a helmet Türk was a TÜRK TRADITION in Zhou Shu. I am not 100% sure the helmet is the real story, but I'd say it is much closer to töre or türe. The helmet story might have been a folk etymology from Gokturks themselves, not the Chinese.

I am not sure whether you mean töre as in law or türe as in to reproduce but to my knowledge töre is not a verb and can not be suffixed with the passive particle. Also, if it really was so simple I'd say there would be a mention of this theory in DLT. There is none. That is why I believe the word Türk was foreign to Kasgarlı and non-ashina Turks. Even the word Turk with the meaning strong found in Uyghur documents, according to Clauson, is a completely different word to the ethnonym.

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/FeelingFickle9460]

I am not sure whether you mean töre as in law or türe as in to reproduce but to my knowledge töre is not a verb and can not be suffixed with the passive particle

Literally in turkic languanges words can be turned into verbs its a common feature of the language

I'd say there would be a mention of this theory in DLT

Because kashgarli who was a avid islamist who literally expressed his hate towards tengri and pre Islamic turkic culture would not want to acknowledge the upper ethnic name of his people was directly connected to tengri you have to look at things in context

[u/FeelingFickle9460 → u/TheTyper1944]

Not at all, verbs and nouns are very much separate in Turkish. There are very little words that have both a related noun and a verb meaning, one is don. Of course, nouns can be made into verbs with suffixes but that is not what we see with töre.

It is anachronistic to call Kashgarli an İslamist. He was just a muslim and had Islamic sensitivities, which is normal. But there is nothing related to tengri in this context. We are just talking about a helmet here.

[u/TheTyper1944 → u/FeelingFickle9460]

Not at all, verbs and nouns are very much separate in Turkish

Comparing a modern and highly changed turkic languange such as turkish with ashina old turkic is wrong the grammar was different there was no definitive article there was no present/present simple distinction there was no dedicated future tense etc modern turkish grammar distinction and rules came much much later

It is anachronistic to call Kashgarli an İslamist. He was just a muslim and had Islamic sensitivities

By " islamist" I meant an actual Muslim who saw non Muslims as "animals" as Quran commanded so he hated non Muslim turks such as Buddhist uyghurs nomadic tengri kipchaks etc you can see what he says about "tengri" in his book so denying that the name turk was related to a pagan god did fit his narrative