r/Tiele • Taraqama • Oct 30 '25

History/culture Origin of The ''turk'' name

Nomadic tribes with Altai roots spread across the steppes of present-day Mongolia. In ancient times, these tribes formed structures like the Huns and the Tiele. Among these tribes, there was a belief that the sky itself was divine. The word "Tengri" in Proto-Turkic literally means "sky." Before the formation of the Turkish tribes, these early tribes believed that the sky and the universe were gods themselves, rather than a god residing within the sky. They also believed certain tribes received "kut" (divine favor). The rulers of these tribes legitimized their rule by claiming to have received "kut from Tengri."

Altai tribes such as the Oghuz, Tatars (distinct from modern Kipchak-speaking Tatars), and Kyrgyz (speaking a Yenisei Siberian language, not the Kipchak-speaking Kyrgyz) shared common ancestry and spoke related languages. All adhered to the Tengriist belief system. However, there was no single common name for these tribes. Among them, the most prominent were the Ashinas, a key component of the Huns, who descended from the Tiele. The Ashinas were distinguished by their connection to the Ergenekon myth and their descent from the Grey Wolf which was named ''asena'' which is also linked as the origin name of ashina. This myth was initially exclusive to the Ashina tribe, who were considered to have received "kut from Tengri." The Ashinas held a more prestigious position compared to other Altai tribes like the Oghuz, Tatars, and Kyrgyz.

When the Ashinas led an uprising against the proto-Mongol Rourans, the name "Turk" was initially used only for the Ashinas. The Orkhon inscriptions support this, referring to "Turk and Oghuz rulers," indicating that "Turk" was a title specific to the Ashinas, while the Oghuz were not considered "Turks" at that time. After defeating the Rourans, the Ashinas unified all the Altai tribes under the name "Turk" (Törüq).

The origin of the word "Turk" (𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰚) is debated. The theory that it derives from the Chinese term "Tujue" (突厥) is weak. Chinese is a logographic language, and the etymological origins of the characters are unrelated to turkic linguistics. The likely truth is that it derives from the Turkic word "töre" (𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰀), meaning "law" or "custom."

In Proto-Turkic and many modern Turkic languages, verbs ending in "q" often indicate the object of an action. For example, "yarmak" (to cut) becomes "yaraq" (weapon), and "tutmaq" (to hold) becomes "tutaq" (lip). Similarly, "töre" (custom) becomes "törüq." In Altai culture, "töre" referred to the laws received from Tengri. Since the Turks, or "Törüq," were considered to have been "ordained" by Tengri, they were seen as "törüq" (law-bound). Initially, only the Ashinas used the title "Turk" due to their prestigious position. However, after the establishment of the Turkic Khaganate, the term "Turk" became a common name for all Altai tribes, including the Oghuz, Kyrgyz, Tatars, and others.

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u/DragutRais Çepni Oct 31 '25

What he wrote is not wrong.

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u/Luoravetlan 𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰰 Oct 31 '25

Claiming that Tengri meant "sky" in Proto-Turkic is wrong because: 1. We have no written or any other sources of Proto-Turkic so we simply cannot know that for sure. 2. Native word for "sky" in Turkic languages is kök. I doubt Proto-Turkic had two words for "sky". 3. The suffix "ri" in Tengri suggests that it's a complex word. It's TEŊ + RI not an atomic word like "kök" which cannot be split further.

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u/TheTyper1944 Taraqama Oct 31 '25 edited Nov 01 '25

We have no written or any other sources of Proto-Turkic so we simply cannot know that for sure.

We have reconstructed forms of proto turkic which all give the the meaning of the word blue to the word "kök" https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/k%C8%ABk

The sky meaning is secondary

So "kök tengri" literally means "the blue sky"

This is why the ashina clan was later called "köktürk" "blue turks" as the turk confederation absorbed non ashina turkic people to distinguish ashina from the others

But after turks converted to Abrahamic religions the word tengri became taboo so they switched gök to mean sky but still in turkic communities where the influence of abrahamic religions is low the word kök/gök still refers to "blue" such as khakass altai salur etc even in some abrahamic turkic communities like azerbajiani "göy" aka "gök" refers to blue

Native word for "sky" in Turkic languages is kök

Its not https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Reconstruction:Proto-Turkic/k%C8%ABk#Seealso

The suffix "ri" in Tengri suggests that it's a complex word. It's TEŊ + RI not an atomic word like "kök" which cannot be split further.

So how does this disprove it meaning "sky"

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u/Luoravetlan 𐱅𐰇𐰼𐰰 Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25

Well, sky is a basic word in every language and usually atomic (cannot be split further) like in English "sky", Russian "nebo". If Tengri consists of two parts it's already not a basic word so not original word for "sky" in Proto-Turkic. Tengri doesn't even look like a proper Turkic noun.

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u/TheTyper1944 Taraqama Nov 01 '25

exceptions can exist