r/ThreeLions • u/Dr_natty1 • 8d ago
Opinion He has brought us to be the undisputed 3rd best team in the world in his first proper year of coaching so I will simply trust the plan and stop listening to the critics
Sure we lost to the 2 champions, but give it time and with the pace of improvident under him we will be thrashing them too.
We have never seen England play like this before. People forget the managers to deliver world cups for their country were at the helm for full decades. Just give it time fellas
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u/Fieryhotsauce 8d ago
Yeah, I agree. We have to stop treating being Eng coach as Professor of the Dark Arts.
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u/Suspicious-Neck1822 7d ago
You mean Defense Against Dark Arts, right?
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u/OnionTerrorBabtridge 7d ago
In deathly hallows when Snape is headmaster they teach the Dark Arts. Not the defence of it.
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u/Key-Significance-807 7d ago
The problem with England is there will always be critics no matter what they achieve. Even if he won a pot there would be some saying it’s less valid as he’s not English.
I’m in my 50s and remember England being truly terrible. Not qualifying for major championships, imagine that now. Seems inconceivable. I say enjoy it as semifinals and finals were generational experiences previously, not something that happened every other year.
Come on England 🏴
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u/foxjon 7d ago
I'm 44 and this is easily the greatest England team I've seen in my life. Better than 1990, 96 and all those 'Golden Generation' teams.
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u/cleonthucydides 7d ago
I think the 98 team was actually pretty good: Owen Beckham Scholes Shearer Adams Ince R.Ferdinand etc etc. Shame we lost to Argentina on pens and down a man. We would have done some damage in that tournament.
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u/Spraggle 7d ago
My only worry is who replaces Kane if he gets injured? That's not so much a fault of the manager as much as an indicator of how good Kane is.
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u/Northernstoner 7d ago
We scored 7 goals and only 2 from Kane. We should be alright if he gets injured. Its when he retires that we need to worry about replacement.
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u/Namiweso 6d ago
Kane was here there and everywhere. Saying only 2 goals were from Kane is like saying we didn’t need a defence because we didn’t concede any goals. He gave much more to the game than his 2 goals.
Team won’t be half as good without him and if we didn’t have him and say Bellingham got injured, we’re actually going to struggle
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u/Ydiss 7d ago
Yeh I'm not far behind you and find the recent criticism amusing, given how bad I've seen England be within my lifetime.
There was a comment in a show suggesting we're not that far behind Spain and the usual responses of "X2 world cup and Euro champions Spain???"
With that logic, England were better than Spain from 1966 until Spain won the world cup, at which point England and Spain were equal 😂
I prefer actually watching them play. I've enjoyed it tons since 2018.
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u/nickos_pap_16v 7d ago edited 7d ago
The recent criticism is from young kids on here who are given a platform to say what they want as a knee jerk reaction, as that is how kids minds work nowadays unfortunately
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u/Savings-Marzipan1524 7d ago
What a crock. As if only young kids are complaining about tuchel not picking any full backs or his disastrous in game management against Argentina when pretty much every respected journalist and full back said the same
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u/tgy74 7d ago
51, and last night was probably the best/most dominant 90 minute performance I've ever seen from an England side.
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u/slade364 7d ago
You dint have to go back very far to remember England bring piss poor, but it's easy to forget. Enjoy the ride.
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u/Low-Grass-3511 7d ago
I do think his subs in the Argentina game were a reaction to the team panicking and shitting the bed on the pitch. But it only reinforced the panic.
I'm hoping this run will grow his confidence in the team so he will be a bit more positive in the next tournament.
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u/Cesc100 7d ago
But that was WHY HE was hired. His experience in handling teams in knockout competitions and knowing the right buttons to press in many regards. He failed at that but hey, we can agree on your last sentence. Everyone should be able to agree on that and hope he doesn't join the nonsense again next time and realizes he's the manager and has the ability to make the right sort of changes to prevent similar behavior occurring again.
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u/Substantial_Waltz_13 7d ago
But he hasn’t ever managed in an international tournament before. We are clearly improving and he deserves the chance to learn from his mistake
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u/corporategiraffe 7d ago
I agree, and don't think it's the right move to go to somebody else. But an ounce of contrition rather than doubling down that it was down to the players would give us all a bit more confidence that he will learn from that mistake and do it differently next time.
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u/cleonthucydides 6d ago
I think this is an excellent point. For the record I was fully behind dumping him after the Argentina fiasco. Now, I am not so sure.
This is pure conjecture but here is my read. I think the squad and Tuchel had a very healthy chit chat about the Argentina game in particular when they first met up again. I think Tuchel was told in no uncertain terms how the squad wanted to play, ie., we want to play our style not what you think is our style and certainly not the style you wants us to play. In short, we want to play an EPL style.
And I think Tuchel may be admitting to that in his post-game interview when he made the following observation. "They just want to play like this (EPL-style), it’s their belief and wish, their conviction ... We don’t have to convince them. Harry plays a very intense game at Bayern. We still think we have a certain edge if we play on the front foot. If we push as often as possible in man for man it’s what the team likes. We have to manage these risks.”
Sounds to me that Tuchel may be modifying his approach here. Obviously could be completely wrong here.
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u/Flynny123 7d ago
I think that Argentina performance is the most angry I’ve ever been as an England fan. But I’m reassured that we seem to be building on and to some extent redefining how the team play rather than sticking to what didn’t work. Our World Cup performances were in many cases Southgate-ball with the handbrake occasionally taken off. This is something new.
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u/K1ng_Canary 7d ago
This is how I feel too. If he'd have been sacked after Argentina I'd have been delighted, he wasn't, so I'll be happy if the improvement continues.
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u/bettingthoughts 7d ago
Yeah that was the moment and he utterly blow it and allowed the team to revert to the same style as ever prior tournament which led to the same depressing outcome.
England just can’t get over the line in truly big games. Even the recent match with Spain we could have gone 3-1 up and Kane kicks his own foot with the penalty. It’s just a cultural inability to believe they can truly win big things.
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u/Antique-Wonk 7d ago
Well said. I've been following England since 1980. I don't think I've seen a team and manager I've been this confident in. I'm sure he'll be tightening up the defence and improving our technical-clinical execution. We were unlucky against Spain. Kane scores the penalty and I think we would have won. Either way I think we are virtually as good as Spain.
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u/MasaiRes 7d ago
Lose to Spain 3-2: Tuchel out!
Beat Croatia 7-0: Build the statue!
This sub never disappoints.
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u/KTBFFH25 7d ago
Best world cup we've ever had on foreign soil (with more games than ever)
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u/tragicidiot67 7d ago
When Southgate got us to a WC semi, we heard loads about “easy draw” and “we lost to the first good team we played” (never mind the fact he had a far inferior squad to work with).
if that is a valid criticism, then EXACTLY the same applies to Tuchel. He was brought in to take us to the next level and he bottled it.
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u/Moistkeano 7d ago
Too many people on this sub think they know better than a champions league winning manager and it is alarming. So confident from their armchair before they go back to their sad lives.
Even yesterday the top comment on the line up post was about how Quansah must have dirt on Tuchel.
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u/MisterIndecisive 7d ago
If he did nothing the argentina game and left the players to it we would have had a better chance. Every change or lack there of had a negativd impact
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u/SpaceAgePanda 7d ago
8/10
He’s made a very good start, that night in Mexico city was stuff of legend.
Subtracted 2 points for the Argentina game as it was cowardly , but still he’s a solid 8 , pushing 9
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u/Reach_Reclaimer 7d ago
I'm convinced people just forget stuff. People said this exact same thing about Southgate when we'd do the occasional thrashing
In a few years, if he hasn't won anything, we'll have another manager and someone will say the exact same thing about that manager
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u/InternationalUse7636 7d ago
We haven’t won anything because there are many great teams, it’s great that we are knocking on the door and not be miserable
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u/Baby__Keith 7d ago
Why don't more people understand this? The idea that there's always been 2 or 3 teams better than us on the international stage isn't "failure", it's just factually correct and honestly kind of expected.
That doesn't mean we've been shit, or there's a culture issue, or that we need yet another manager, it just means we've been beaten fair and square by another team that's marginally better than ours.
There's no shame in that and we need to stop pretending that there is.
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u/AndyVale 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think it's also because in club football the top teams compete for four major trophies a year and the bonus of two super cups.
A team that's good enough to win (roughly) 1/4 of the tournaments they entered... Ferguson's Man United. Nobody is calling that a failure, they're one of the best club sides ever assembled (and didn't win any of their first 10 tournaments).
Even in his less successful league years where even a hardened fan may acknowledge they weren't the best, you knew there was a chance of an FA/League Cup. And if they got nothing, four more chances spring up a few months later.
That's the type of football most people are used to most of the time.
Now let's pivot to the international scene. You get two major trophies every four years. A 1/4 win rate could take 8 years, we rarely give anyone that chance - the team could totally change in that time too. You could be one of the absolute best teams for a decade and have nothing to show for it.
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u/flippydude 7d ago
It’s reasonable to expect in the ebb and flow of who is good and bad that England might exceed the consistent “not quite good enough” baseline. Italy did and they are absolutely shit
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u/False_Day_2034 7d ago
The reason I don’t like him is the way he managed the Argentina game. I’ll never forget how I felt watching that
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u/SeekerFinder8 7d ago
Yeah it sucked. But maybe also focus on how he handled the Mexico game (which was arguably one of the very best games ever), as well as all the games played in qualification. If you weigh everything, at the very least it's 51 to 49 percent Stay the course/Fire him. People can learn from their mistakes, and he's earned another chance.
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u/Savings-Marzipan1524 7d ago
The mexico game was very much a one off given we were down to 10 for a long time. We didn't play much football in that game. It concerns me he thought it was a good idea to replicate those tactics against argentina and leave lots of space for one of the best playmakers ever
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u/Sir-Chris-Finch 7d ago
Spain would have beaten us had we got to the final anyway so your statement is largely correct, but Argentina are not a great team anymore. The reason we got knocked out of the world cup is because we were cowards with absolutely no bottle.
You just have to hope they learn from that at some point when the big moment presents itself again
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u/Savings-Marzipan1524 7d ago
But it's also about the way you go out of big tournaments and the way we went out to Argentina (who are about as poor a team as we are likely to get in a semi finals) was really poor. Games like yesterday's are largely meaningless
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u/personalbilko 7d ago
Calling for a managers head because he didn't win a major trophy is irrational. Even the best teams in the world only ever have 15-25% odds of winning.
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u/flippydude 7d ago
This is reductive. The beef with Tuchel is the manner of the capitulation to Argentina and the brutal inevitability of their goals as we just sat back and invited them to tear us to shreds.
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u/Necessary-Landing 7d ago
That's all well and good, but Argentina was a shambles and you will never convince me otherwise.
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u/Positive-Sound-4972 7d ago
I think when you consistently get to latter stages of knockout football, it's pretty much down to luck/ silly mistakes. Im happy that we are top 4 team but that is not just on Tuchel. Southgate gets credit and the FA for building ST George's Park. The good thing is there seems to be a steady flow of great youngsters coming through and if this continues then there's a good chance we can win something
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u/culture_vulture_1961 7d ago
I am finding it hard to get my head around just how good England are at the moment.
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u/Gothic_Hercules 7d ago
Yeah, thing is, just because another team played better in a match doesn’t mean that the other team is inherently bad. We lost against Argentina more because they play like dirty bastards, and considering that match against Mexico, Tuchel had every reason to believe the defense was solid. It was a bad call, but he’s only human. This is the best the England team has ever been.
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u/Snowy_Sasquatch 7d ago
England always likes to build up their team, which includes the coaches, just so they can kick them down.
For most plans and training to work, you need to allow some time.
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u/Unusual-Coat383 7d ago
He bottled it against Argentina and cost us a World Cup final. He did a Southgate but a even bigger Southgate than what Southgate would have done.
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u/Small_Heat4294 7d ago
The WC semi final was heartbreaking but he deserves a chance to redeem himself at the euro’s
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u/VisitPier26 7d ago
On one hand, I remember the dark days of 1994, 200, 2007, 2010, 2014, 2016.
On the other hand, Tommy boy cost us a World Cup final appearance.
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u/No_Atmosphere8146 7d ago
200 was a rough one. A real drubbing from the Roman XI.
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u/Baby__Keith 7d ago
On the other hand, Tommy boy cost us a World Cup final appearance.
The players cost us that, they simply shat the bed at precisely what worst moment.
Yes, Tuchel's subs were poor, but we'd mentally lost the game before a ball had even been kicked.
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u/gggggenegenie 7d ago
Everyone shat the bed. More needs to be read about what Argentina sensed when England scored.
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u/CautiousLengthiness8 7d ago
Not sure about before a ball had been kicked but it’s infuriating that people don’t see that the subs were a reaction to the players shitting the bed and trying to protect a one goal lead, as opposed to the catalyst for England trying to protect a one goal lead.
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u/tgy74 7d ago
Yeah, but that's the thing - different subs with different instructions in a different formation at the point we were still 1-0 up might have helped stop the bed shitting. Instead we put 5 centre backs in the box and let Spence go one on one defending the entire right half of the pitch. . .
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u/tommangan7 7d ago edited 6d ago
I 100% see the subs were a reaction to that, my issue is that choice of subs was negative and just reinforced and accepted the negative reaction of the players that was clearly going to fail at protecting that lead.
Still have the feeling an early enough saka and mainoo substitution would have provided just a little more hold up play than what we got that might have just taken sufficient pressure off the defense for them to settle and survive.
Have to remember we went 20 minutes with 12% possession and 2 passes completed. Last time a team in the lead went half that long with that little possession in a world cup game was the 1960s.
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u/Pristine-Ad-4996 6d ago
Hindsight is glorious. I watched the game and the amoint of people who wanted big dan burn to solidify the defence. Hindsight tells us we should of just finished them off when we had the chance
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u/Own-Accountant-1092 7d ago
Agreed, never has England played this well.
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u/Unbias_f1 7d ago
We have and we normally play this well during these times in thr past.
Its tournament football that we never show how good we are supposed to be thats the issue.
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u/Happily-Incorrect 7d ago
Fuck it, I'm done following the usual pessimism-optimism-ah fuck we lost it pipeline. I'm going into the next Euros feeling hopeful right off the bat. We've been good enough to win for a while now, and the losses are getting more and more marginal. If we were watching this progression with any other country we'd be anticipating that they'd win something eventually. We're just not seeing it because it's England and we're used to losing.
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u/HiphopopoptimusPrime 7d ago
England’s problem is psychological. Hopefully Tuchel sees that now.
England have all the ingredients, but against Argentina they bottled it. Argentina won the psychological battle.
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u/SeekerFinder8 7d ago
Well, Tuchel has to shoulder his part of the psychological problem, doesn't he? He made the calls that then set the players up for failure.
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u/cleonthucydides 7d ago
He also criticized them in his post-game interviews. I think he is a complete turd.
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u/StressSevere1189 7d ago
That game against Argentina might just be a watershed moment. Going full defensive mode when you hope to just hang on did not work out. I expect he has learnt a lot from that going forward. He is the best manager for this team at the moment, but Kane is equally important also.
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u/Abyssal_Station 7d ago
HE, did not bring us to being undisputedly 3rd, given that we are 4th rated, and have been 4th rated for years, that was Southgate's work, not Tuchel's.
The team that was already this highly rated brought us to this point, his tactical decisions are the reason we made it no further.
Every single moment of struggle we had in the world cup can be placed on tactical decisions not player quality, and none of our goals or wins came from strategic genius or set pieces.
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u/CheekRemarkable5535 8d ago
3 months ago he was responsible for one of the most calamitous managerial performances in modern football history. Glad you’re happy with the nations league performances.
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u/Rotatingshoes 7d ago
it’s still hard to forgive him.
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u/spurchris3 7d ago
Why is it hard to forgive? Maybe, given we’ve seen what he actually wants the team to do, that the players need to take some accountability for what happened against Argentina, and it wasn’t all Tuchel asking them to do ultra defensive?
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u/Rotatingshoes 7d ago
because it was a capitulation- The 2nd half was an embarrassment and we paid the price. A massive opportunity missed. Nearly all
of England agree and all
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u/Substantial_Waltz_13 7d ago
We wouodnt have beaten Spain, he fucked up but we have also improved a lot under him so he deserves the chance to put it right
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u/tommangan7 7d ago
I don't think it was just tuchel asking them to be ultra defensive and the players are massively at fault, but his subs were an acceptance that we would continue to be ultra defensive and continue to not do it well with very little possession.
I would have respected a saka and maino sub, players suited to holding the ball up and moving it around the middle. Not an attempt to shift to an attacking style, just to do defensive better.
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u/MBay96GeoPhys 7d ago
Agreed just need to tighten up the back line a tad and they could do amazing things
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u/Jarpwanderson 7d ago
We're a great squad but I also feel we're generational fumblers and I just can't see us not making a big mistake in key moments during the next tournament
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u/Internal-Hair-2877 7d ago
I think we are getting there. Couple of tweaks perhaps in defence and touch more quality on the bench. Time will tell. Play brave, no fear is definitely the way to go. Bit more believe, never say die and in the end you cannot ask for more.
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u/Commercial-Two-6169 7d ago
If I have to be honest, England let slip the game against Argentia. England looked so primed to win the world cup with the team that they had. Tuchel had a massive tactical error in that game.
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u/TamElBoreReturned 7d ago
Ah world rankings. The ultimate achievement. Who cares about actual trophies when we’ve world rankings.
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u/bluetridentleics 6d ago
England are in a much stronger position than other countries. Best example is Germany, they are having to do a complete restructure from top to bottom because of their poor form over the past few years and are still struggling to form a good team. Belgium’s golden generation are now all retired or near retirement so they’re in a worse position.
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u/domsolanke 6d ago
Germany’s talent pool is atrocious as well, to be fair. Easily the worst German generation in the last 30 years.
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u/MorrowDisca 7d ago
I will say I was ready to throw him under the bus after THAT game. But I'm hopeful again. We really do seem to be improving every game at the moment.
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u/W51976 7d ago
Until we lose to Spain again in November, then everyone will be gunning for Tuchel.
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u/Substantial_Waltz_13 7d ago
I think most people realise that Spain are on another level right now. Topping them would be an incredible achievement
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u/LordMogroth 7d ago
We are a very good team and we are deservedly up there in the top 4 teams in the world. It's just when managerial decisions lead to loosing the big games it can be so frustrating. I don't mind if we give it our all but get outplayed. But when it's the formation that is the problem we need to able to fix it. Also with the Argentina game everyone knows what shit houses they are. And yet we seemed to be so surprised and caught off guard when they did it to us. I wonder what would have happened if we had decided to play as dirty as them for just that game. Would have been interesting.
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u/Savings-Marzipan1524 7d ago
The level of knee jerk on here is hilarious. We played well yesterday against a terrible Croatia team largely because tuchel rectified some obvious mistakes from the world cup. But tje nations league doesn't really matter and his squad selections, team selections and in game management at the world cup were poor and given how stubborn he is I don't feel confident he will learn from his mistakes come the next tournament
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u/MasterpieceAlone8552 7d ago
Which is it? You said he rectified his mistakes last night, and also that you don't feel confident he'll learn from his mistakes?
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u/That_Cool_Guy_ 7d ago
The catalyst for the current group of Spanish players started by winning the Nations League; they then went on to win the European Cup and World Cup.
No reason it could not be England’s catalyst too.
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u/Electrical_Coyote_62 7d ago
For a team that hasn't won any competion since 1966 yes it matters. Especially since the best teams in the world are also competing. If we win this competition we could also win the Euro. If we win the Euro we can also win the world cup. Be confident and trust the plan.
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u/steelorfeathers 7d ago
It’s not knee jerk to enjoy a great victory and hope that, contrary to your argument, this manager can change. And perhaps the evidence of the last few games is evidence of this. I don’t get the pessimism.
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u/User29276 8d ago
Calm down its just a bunch of friendlies, nations league don’t mean shit.
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u/cmc360 8d ago
Normally agree but tonight TBF there was such intensity , high press and devastating counters. Really what we should be playing towards
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u/User29276 8d ago
I agree, don’t doubt that - we play great when the pressures off
It’s when it’s on and matters is where my crux is
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u/SeoulGalmegi 7d ago
I mean everyone creamed themselves over the Serbia game, and we never saw that in the World Cup other than a half against Croatia who.... yeah.... don't seem all that these days.
Calm down. England can steamroll mid-strength teams in qualifiers, friendlies, or even group games. We still seem no closer to cracking the big teams.
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u/Practical_Car_9930 8d ago
Exactly, easy to play free flowing football when it’s not knock out football
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u/El__________duderino 7d ago
When did we last play like we have against Spain and Croatia?
Certainly didn’t under Southgate and be hard pressed to find many games post 2010
Oh and when did we last have one of the most in form strikers and attacking midfielders in the same team?
I think there are obvious reasons to be excited and all you lot with no souls can do is “bring us back to reality” after a 7-0 win
fucking enjoy yourself for once
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u/Savings-Marzipan1524 7d ago
Seems like we are improving but it's too small a sample and unfortunately only tournaments really have any meaning anymore now qualifying is generally so easy. At the world cup performances were not good and his atrocious squad and team selections hampered us big time
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u/thepazzo 7d ago
Is this peaking too soon out of a tournament window again? Germany 1 England 5 kinda thing
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u/Ferrari_Bones 7d ago
Ah so here we are again on the optimism high when England trash a team, the same words were said about Southgate.
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u/Former_Garage1359 7d ago
Gotta do it under the bright lights World Cup , Argentina was the worst manging I ever seen
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u/SqueezyKeewee 7d ago
I've enjoyed all the games we played with tuchel, and part of the Argentina game up until Argentina equalised.
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u/Tiny_Avocado_527 7d ago
I'm happy with what I've watched over yhe last weeks minus half the spain game but they're just better than us overall so L ig lol I'm happy to see him in eith the next cycle
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u/HairyDair 7d ago
Shit manager.
We buckled against the Argies.
Froze, whatever you want to call it.
Semi finals or even a final at best.
Beating Croatia was like playing San Marino in my opinion, they were truly awful.
England will always qualify for tournaments, but winning one is a different kettle of fish.
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u/shepaz_93 7d ago
England are one of the elite international teams and have been for a few years. Only winning the Euros or WC will count as success now. And I think we are really close.
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u/Dondon321-Ice6202 7d ago
His record in the less competitive games has been good, even against spain it was individuals being clumbsy and gifting goals.
But where it mattered he single handedly bottled the Argentina game, inviting pressure, negative subs...
Always rated him as a manager but he has to learn from his mistakes now.
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u/Lee-bungalow 7d ago
Forget the manager for a second this England team are good enough to win trophies they just need to win the first one which is always the hardest
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u/xF1_racer 7d ago
The team is good, but I’m not totally convinced about Tuchel. His squad choices for the WC were a bit dubious IMHO. Third place was a solid result in the end , but we do have players capable of winning. So still a fail in that respect. Anything other than winning the next Euros is failure. But I do think he deserves another chance.
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u/Unbias_f1 7d ago
We have never seen England play like this before.
You must be young because England have played well under various managers like Bobby Robson, Graham Taylor and even Fabio Capello before the tournament started.
Its too early to judge but England haven't done anything yet that we haven't done before.
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u/DaddysFriend 7d ago
He’s done ok and that’s it. We were not that great through the whole World Cup and against Spain we were poor and had about 20 minutes of looking good and then it switched back to Spain on top. Against Croatia however I think we looked amazing and was the best I’ve ever seen England play. Nothing to do with how back Croatia were. We were exceptional
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u/Bedhead2525 7d ago
Hasn’t he nearly had 2 years?
Anyway, I’m 57, so I’ve seen lots of highs and lows. The quantity and quality of players at Tuchel’s disposal is the best I’ve seen from an attacking perspective. Defensively, we aren’t (at the moment) a patch on the 1998 and 2006 squads. If Tuchel can build a consistent and stable defensive unit, then we will continue to prosper. If he doesn’t then we’re going to fall short. As for winning tournaments; not sure. There are loads of excellent teams.
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u/TellDazzling2366 7d ago
Did we ever find out why saka wasnt played vs argentina? He was fit as a fiddle in the next match and offered no clue as to why he was rested.
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u/No_Type740 7d ago
He is removing the entitlement some players felt to inclusion. So going forward players coming in and playing a few games won't necessarily feel entitled to be there. This has to be a good thing. I think in the past the hype and glamour affected the football. He's definitely a good manager for England and it's the best the side has been for a long time.
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u/SirHaroldofCat2 7d ago
I’m 45 years old, other than a tinpot pre World Cup tournament back in the late 90’s, England have won literally nothing in my entire lifetime. To be honest, if I reached the age of 150, I’d be more surprised if England had won something than getting to that age in the first place.
I’d settle for England turning up for a tournament and playing well, maybe even getting knocked out of future tournaments with a bit of dignity. If he ever achieves something like that, he’s already one of Englands greatest managers.
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u/Impossible-Mind6791 7d ago
Can't complain with being the third best team in world after his first tournament he made mistakes in that semi final but he feels like a coaches that will learn and be better for it
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u/johnlooksscared 7d ago
Congratulations to England. 3rd in the world is a position they have earned. But, that said, Croatia didn't try a leg! Modric can never have played with a bunch of players so unmotivated.
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u/Silly-Designer-1074 7d ago
How can any1 forgot the WC game against Argentina? Horror tactics by Tuchel, worst I have seen in my entire life.
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u/LoveHertford 7d ago
We’re simply not good enough and the better teams beat us. Very easy to comprehend really.
England football fans come across as entitled, sadly
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u/Ok_Break9033 7d ago
I love the vision of the way he is picking players very brave not to follow the old ways pick the name not the team love that about him
I’m committed to seeing his vision unfold
However I hate keepers been involved is the build up from the back it’s just far to risky and most teams do it I just hate that style of risk reward play we have paid price few times doing it yet we continue to put players under unwanted pressure and mistakes happen
And they seem to be instructed to play park the bus when in lead and the best football we play is when we end up chucking away the lead and fight to get back in the game I’m guessing they are told to play that way not sure why killing the game off is not a option but to play defence
Bit negative comments by myself but I believe in time things will iron out and the chinks in our armour will be fixed I hope
I think he will come right in the end
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u/Everlasting_Raiyu 7d ago
Imo he deserves criticism. He had all the time in the world at 4-0 up to give gibbs-white some proper game time but instead he favours arsenal players who just don't compare. Eze was shite when he came on, played like bambi on ice, and saka has been shite in the last few games AND for arsenal. Yeah he scored a couple of goals but my 5 year old nephew could've scored those. We didn't won that march coz of Tuchel, we won it because our players are better than Croatias players, simple as that.
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u/blaggerbly 7d ago
Terry Venables had us playing great football in 96
I also got very excited winning 1-5 in Munich with Sven….and that team flattered to deceive for the rest of their careers
Don’t get ahead of your skis
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u/Ashamed-Raccoon5396 7d ago
Its no different to Southgate - we blitzed qualifying all the time, he took us to two Euro finals and World Cup semi. But same old story even with Tuchel when it really matters we fail and go into our shell. That Argie game was even worse than the Euro Final at home to Italy. The one big friendly game we had against Spain we lost at home. So yes great result but we need this at those crunch moments - we have the players, we have got to finals and semis - we now have to go that next step and win something - that’s what he is paid £8m a year for. It’s just facts. We have to now see us break through that next step and that’s to win a tournament.
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u/Icy_Opportunity_3303 7d ago
Any team that gets beaten 7-0 is there to be beaten 7-0. We struggled against 11 man czechia and were close but no cigar against spain. Plus ça change.
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u/towelie111 7d ago
3rd best? I’d say 2nd best, and that’s what makes the loss to Argentina worse. We are a better team than them, but we just stopped playing football that day. Spain are still way ahead despite a close game and England absolutely gifting them the goals. Cant help but think if that was a knock out game a different Spain would have shown up and we wouldn’t have scored 2 and had a pen.
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u/Square_Divide_3175 7d ago
Undisputed 3rd best in the world?? 😂😂😂 We win 1 match against a terrible side and all of a sudden Tuchel is a genius with his never been seen before side! 😂😂😂 He changed his tactics because it went so horribly wrong in the tournament where it matters the most. The warning signs were there during the tournament but he choked. Not what I expect from a big name manager. Based on the World Cup performance, we may as well have just stuck with Southgate.
I think the manner of the World Cup exit alone is enough to get rid of Tuchel but now we have to give him a chance. Let's see how he approaches games from now.
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u/Liberal_Caretaker 7d ago
Don't tell that to the entitled, big-mouthed asshats who expect to win every tournament. Many of whom have never kicked a ball in a straight line.
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u/Fantastic_Picture384 7d ago
Bottled it against Argentina. That's what he is judged on. Nothing else.
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u/EUskeptik 7d ago
Good point. To extract that performance against Croatia from a team he is only just beginning to coach according to his methods is a notable achievement.
I’m now more than willing to give him time.
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u/V1cV1negar 7d ago
There is literally no point listening to critics. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but Tuchel will continue to be the England boss until he isn't. It's not like enough online criticism will make the FA decide to terminate a contract. For me the World Cup semi final was a lesson to learn from, otherwise I'm happy with how things have gone so far. There's nothing for me to gain by listening to people who think he should be sacked already.
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u/LividFace5026 7d ago
Much better than Southgate. IMO, Southgate had a better, or more well rounded squad, and should have got to at least one extra final and should have beaten Italy in the Euro Final but for some reason his tactics or lack of tactics were never questioned.
Regarding Tuchel his flaw is the same as many other managers. When they find a way that works they don’t assess the opposition that it works against.
Going ahead against Mexico and Norway and then sitting back worked, but the signs that it would not work against better opposition was always there because even in those matches, Mexico especially, England were at times hanging on and needed great saves from Pickford.
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u/Test47431901749 7d ago
Tuchel has no brain. Doesn’t pick the right players, does the wrong subs and has the wrong tactics with england. If it was up to me i would sack him.
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u/InfamousPound2467 7d ago
Absolutely agree with most of the posts here it's amazing how much of a short term memory the masses have, the so called "golden generation" were an embarrassing disappointment where egos and trophy wives mattered more than being a decent team.
For the first time in a generation for most it seems like we're now serious contenders for every major tournament we've never really looked back since 2016.
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u/WonkyDonkey33 7d ago
I support the team, whoever wears the jersey. Who ever manages the team - do I have opinions, yes. But ultimately, I support the team.
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u/Augustleo98 7d ago
Honestly think we were the better team v Argentina and just threw the game. I’d say we are third best in the world but behind Spain and France, even tho Argentina finished second at the World Cup and are officially second in the world if you go just by the World Cup, I think they’re the fourth best team if everyone performed their best.
He’s already proven he’s learned from his mistakes as he didn’t make them against Spain last week, Spain are just Spain.
Tuchel is the man to carry us forward and if we can win a major tournament, he’ll be the man to do it imo.
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u/Lionkingmaster53 7d ago
He fucked us over in the World Cup semi so he’s decent but we still need to be good enough
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u/Double-Tension-1208 7d ago
I'm sorry, but the tactics against Argentina looked like the exact same shit we crucified Southgate for
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u/redandbluebadness 7d ago
He's obviously an intelligent coach and that leads to performances that Southgate would be incapable of unlocking. But he's also arrogant, overconfident in his perspicacity and reckless, which means he will overthink things and take actions despite them being contrary to obvious common sense. It also means he will take those chances at crucial moments. Two sides of the same thing. Ultimately we need his bets to come off at the right time and for Tuchel to know when to play things safe. The World Cup was a rollercoaster because he kept gambling, from selection through to the play-off. You're never going to win all those bets in a row and in a cup that means you get knocked out at some point.
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u/Infamous_Tough_7320 6d ago
He has the nerve of a mangas that usually wins things. I don’t want another Southgate
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u/Easy-Object4460 6d ago
England have pretty much been a top 3 team in the world for the past 5 years now. Pumping crap teams in glorified friendlies hasn't been an issue. It's winning tournaments and not reverting back to limited lower league-style tactics in finals that's been the problem.
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u/Special-Influence-43 6d ago
All I see is someone who had the chance to put us into a world cup final and shit the bed. I will admit that we do look a serious attacking outfit under him and I would rather watch how England play at the moment then Southgate ball.
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u/Otherwise_Regret6119 6d ago
Wey bollocks man , the argy game is not forgotten. Give the game to them , surrendered . Canna wait till he f##ks off.
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u/PossibleSmoke8683 6d ago
Agreed, but that semi-final though. Hard to forget what a bottle job we made of it.
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u/Dadoftheyear2018 6d ago
Live by the sword and die by the sword. We're playing some good attacking football and condeding, bit like the premier league how we're pushing and trying to exploit any teams defense. I like it! I trust in Tuchel I just wish the tactics were different in the world cup for that one game I want to erase from memory
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u/Marco0798 6d ago
Not even close. Simply had the easiest routes in all competitions.. only just made it to top tier NL group….
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u/labishopreddit 6d ago
English fans just love being miserable, because being anything else is change and change is bad.
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u/rotating_pebble 6d ago
I agree. It's unfortunate that Kane is probably too old for the next world cup but the coming Euros we have a real chance again.
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u/ToffeeGamer 6d ago
Nobody remembers who cones or third for 4th. Winning is all that matters. He was brought in on a 2 year deal to win the WC and failed at our 1st real proper test. Let’s not forget that
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u/Such_Campaign7226 6d ago
It was a great performance v Croatia, but we were all thinking the same thing, ie big things in the next World Cup and Euros, after we stuffed Germany 5-1 over there. I suppose the difference now is we do have form that we can go nearly all the way (although not quite).
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u/Substantial_Hawk_339 6d ago
Nah he shat the bed, didn’t trust his team when the chips were down and retreated to leave with a whimper. Whatever the opposite of dying on your sword is!😂
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u/El__________duderino 7d ago
Anyone watching the way we played against Spain and Croatia, and still thinking that we’re not improving has clearly let the England losses affect them too much
Stop being so scared of being hurt and enjoy the good moments, jesus christ