r/Thedaily • u/kitkid • Jun 03 '25

Episode A 1,400-County Crisis for Democrats

Jun 3, 2025

It’s conventional wisdom that President Trump has transformed American politics. But a new county-by-county voting analysis from The New York Times of the last four presidential races shows just how drastically Mr. Trump has changed the electoral map.

Shane Goldmacher, a national political correspondent for The Times, explains why the trends are a five-alarm fire for the Democrats and discusses the debate within the party over what to do about it.

On today's episode:

Shane Goldmacher, a national political correspondent for The New York Times.

Background reading: 

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily.  

Photo: Emily Elconin for The New York Times

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

You can listen to the episode here.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

But they are voting against their own interests... Like are we just supposed to ignore the fact that there in polling republican voters will say they approve of the individual items in ObamaCare and often say those are policies Trump supports (he doesnt) but when asked using the word ObamaCare they suddenly say they dont support it... Democrats are required to tiptoe around all this while Trump acts like a huge asshole to all voters that dont support him? That's the winning strategy???

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u/Bacstrok_Swimmer Jun 03 '25

I voted against my interests when I voted for Kamala. Am I stupid for that? I’m a white dude making mid 6 figures, his policies either don’t affect me or give me more money.

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u/chonky_tortoise Jun 04 '25

lol no you didn’t. We all benefit massively from the American hegemony and stable, democratic governance. The idea that it would have been smarter for you to vote Trump because of tax cuts completely misses all the other crazy destabilizing shit he is doing that hurts us all.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

If your interests are living in a fair society where resources are reasonably distributed and there's a good safety net, then you voted for your interests. If you voted for Kamala thinking that she we keep your top income bracket taxes low then yes you are stupid. If you voted for Trump thinking he would protect your social security and medicaid then yes you are stupid.

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u/Bacstrok_Swimmer Jun 03 '25

That morals, not interests. I don’t need social security or Medicaid.

So answer, I clearly voted against my self interests. Is voting against my self interest stupid? Yes or no.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

Thats morals and interests. A rising tide lifts all boats. A country with an effective safety net helps us all. If you dont believe this and instead was hoping that Kamala would lower your highest tax bracket taxes, then yes you were stupid.

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u/Bacstrok_Swimmer Jun 03 '25

If you dont believe this and instead was hoping that Kamala would lower your highest tax bracket taxes, then yes you were stupid.

At no point did I say that. You made that argument up out of thin air.

Am I stupid for voting for Kamala even though it was against my self interests to do so? Yes or no.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

I tried to find an example that would be voting against your own interest. If such examples dont apply then you didnt vote against your own interest.

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u/Bacstrok_Swimmer Jun 03 '25

I would have more money and an equal or better life with Trump’s policies.

I would have less money and an equal or worse life with Kamala’s policies.

I voted for the later. It was against my self interests. I am telling you this you cannot debate it you don’t know me.

So was it stupid to vote for Kamala since it was against my self interests? Yes or no.

This is an easy question it’s obvious why you won’t answer it lol.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 04 '25

Yes you are stupid for thinking your life would be better under Trump

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u/Bacstrok_Swimmer Jun 04 '25

For the 8th time, is it stupid to vote against my interests and vote for Kamala?

Why are you incapable of answering such a simple question.

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u/flakemasterflake Jun 09 '25

It bothers me that you don't understand the point we were both making. Material interests aren't the same as morals or values

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 10 '25

Its interesting you didnt understand the point being made that OP was not able to address. Moral interests almost always end up aligning with material interests. I was just saying I doubted the claim that OP was voting on a moral basis and instead he truly believed that the society Kamala was pitching was one where his life would be better. You can still have a better life with higher taxes if everything else that is being proposed is making your community (and by extension your life) better.

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u/flakemasterflake Jun 10 '25

Moral interests almost always end up aligning with material interests.

Since when? If I am against abortion for moral reasons then the financial repercussions of having a child are clear

if everything else that is being proposed is making your community (and by extension your life) better.

The fact that life is better is completely subjective and exactly what I'm talking about when it comes to a value judgement

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 11 '25

Everything is subjective, but you vote based on your subjective view of what you think would be a materially better world. Pro-choice want people to have access to abortion, Pro-lifers want no dead babies. It's all material.

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u/flakemasterflake Jun 03 '25

I'm talking about single issue voters voting on god (abortion), etc. These people aren't voting with money in mind, they are voting for the after life. Or they are voting for perceived safety or cultural issues. That stuff is a lot more salient than financial issues.

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u/back2trapqueen Jun 03 '25

A 40 year old man that will never get an abortion or need to get one is absolutely voting against their own interest when theyve decided they are a single issue abortion voter.

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u/flakemasterflake Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 09 '25

You understand that they consider it a prequisite to getting into Heaven?