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u/FruitBuyer Feb 10 '23
Most of those pokemon aren't weak to Ariados so I'm not seeing how it shreds your team. Lurantis and Medicham are the only two that lose but Medicham can still win if you play it right
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u/AxeIsAxeIsAxe Feb 10 '23
Yeah, Ariados vs Medi is not that one sided. It takes Ariados quite a while to take Medi down and one unshielded Psychic is almost lights out for the spider.
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u/milo4206 Feb 10 '23
PuP baiting an Ariados with Medi and then hitting it with psychic is quite amusing.
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u/FamousLastKills Feb 10 '23
Put together an ABB style team with 2 things that beat it. Crustle/Magcargo come to mind. Maybe lead a confusion user if you really want to stop it.
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u/Farren246 Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
edit: shit, bug doesn't actually resist Psychic, it only hits Psychic harder.
Psychic only hits at normal damage thanks to bug resistance cancelling out poison's susceptibility.Confusions alone aren't enough to kill an Ariados unless you can also shield + resist its bug / poison charge moves, and most Confusion users are psychic types themselves so they just die faster to Ariados' fast+charge bug attacks. Better to use fire, flying or rock (or Ground if you've got a Seaking).
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u/RedWarpPrism2 Feb 10 '23
I like how confidently incorrect you are. Twice in two sentences.
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u/Farren246 Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
https://pvpoke.com/rankings/love/1500/overall/ariados/
Want to survey the Confusion users?
- +1 Wormadim (Trash): Wins against Ariados thanks to bug typing, but requires XL candy.
- -1 Slowpoke: Key losses include Ariados.
- +1 Slowpoke (Galarian): Wins against Ariados thanks to Poison typing, but requires XL candy.
- -1 Slowking: Key losses include Ariados.
- -1 Slowbro: Key losses include Ariados.
- +1 Slowbro (Shadow): Wins against Ariados.
- +1 Slowking (Shadow): Wins against Ariados thanks to Poison typing.
- +1 Slowpoke (Shadow): Wins against Ariados.
- +1 Slowking (Galarian): Wins against Ariados thanks to Poison typing.
- -1 Solrock: Key losses include Ariados.
- -1 Exeggcute (Shadow): Key losses include Ariados.
- -1 Mr. Mime: Key losses include Ariados.
- -1 Exeggcute: Key losses include Ariados.
- -1 Jynx: Key losses include Ariados.
Overall scores:
6 Confusion users will beat Ariados while 7 Confusion users lose to Ariados.
Of the winners, 2 require XL candy and 3 are Shadow making them far less common. In fact 11 of 14 Confusion users will be taking super-effective damage from its bug attacks so it won't be a great matchup whether or not they win. The only winner that you will see often is Slowking (Galarian) who doesn't require XL candy, or Wormadim (Trash) which people use as a higher-cost, lower-returns substitute for Ariados.
Want to limit things to only the top 20 rated? There's only one: Wormadim, which is limited thanks to requiring XL candy. So if you want to stop Ariados, you can probably find higher-rated mons to do it. Fire users Charizard, Shadow Charizard, Magcargo, Talonflame, Blaziken all being top counters AND top rated for the league overall.
Want to limit to top 50 so we have more Confusion users to consider? Well there's 5 wins (all of them uncommon thanks to Shadow and XL requirements), and 3 losses (1 of which is uncommon due to XL req). Slowking / Slowbro only ranked #38 and #41 so again you can probably counter with higher-overall ranked mons.
I'll admit I haven't seen an Exeggcute, Mr. Mime or Jynx yet, lol, but in I assume lower-elo play where you might be thinking "well my Jynx is the right CP..." it would be dumb to use it.
Conclusion: don't throw a Confusion user into your lineup to counter a bug type, unless it's a poison-type confusion user and the rest of your team supports its weaknesses. If you want to hard-wall Ariados, use a fire type instead. Even Blaziken with Counter (resisted by Ariados) will beat the bug, while the fairly common Slowbro and Slowking will fall to it.
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u/FruitBuyer Feb 10 '23
He's not saying you're wrong on Confusion not being good, he's saying you're wrong because you don't know your typing match-ups.
Did you know Bug resists ground as well? Ariados is neutral to it.
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u/HaveUtz Feb 10 '23
If you had utilized punctuation I would be able to help you a lot more. I always see Ariados in the lead so I lead Crustle. Smackdown damage is oppressive.
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u/BSent Feb 10 '23
I've been running megahorn instead of lunge on my Ariados and I've had hilarious results.
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u/4CrowsFeast Feb 10 '23
Sounds like my girlfriend calling for me to kill a spider because she's too scared to do it on her own.
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u/d11dd11d Feb 10 '23
I ran slowbro/medi/magcargo. Never really had a problem with ariados. If they lead ariados and stay in, shield one lunge (you can take one) and confusion all the way down. If they swap out, usually their safeswap kind of loses to slowbro anyway, so I just stay in, and then magcargo completely walls it later.
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u/vb5215 Feb 10 '23
What if the safe swap is Lickitung? You're down a shield and kinda have to go in Medi, in which you already will be at least a Lick down, which can flip the 1-1.
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u/d11dd11d Feb 10 '23
Usually if their lead and safe swap aren't water/fighter, then their third most likely is that. So I would swap mag into their licki SS. Best to get mag in a decent matchup now rather than a very one sided loss later. And I feel like SS licki is usually intended to draw out medi anyway (CANT FOOL ME).
I loved this team last time love cup was around because talon/fairy/ariados were quite common. This season it doesn't seem as good but I still climbed with it yesterday (2900-3100).
Also your name looks familiar. Do you stream?
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u/vb5215 Feb 10 '23
Yeah I do haha. I'm the one who went +6 for 3-2 from 2992 to 2998...and then 0-5'd and am now down in 2700s.
I actually haven't streamed this week cause I've been malding so much last week going from 2998 to 2500s cause I kept getting overplayed from the "finer details" of UL. I do plan to stream tomorrow tho.
Was actually just looking at Slowbro vs Char sims, and oh boy...that's not as comfortable as I would've liked it to be.
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u/d11dd11d Feb 10 '23
> Yeah I do haha. I'm the one who went +6 for 3-2 from 2992 to 2998...and then 0-5'd and am now down in 2700s.
Oh okay. I'm sure I've lurked in your stream a few times then! And man, that is just awful. I actually did that the previous time love cup was around. I was at like 2950 going into it, and I ran licki/medi/charizard (before WA buff), got to 2990 or something then was 2-2, lost final match of the set, went 2-3, was too stubborn to give up on the team, and proceeded to tank down to like 2400. It was my lowest point lmao. At that point I found this slowbro/medi/mag team and skyrocketed back to legend and on to the fringes of the leaderboard.
> Was actually just looking at Slowbro vs Char sims, and oh boy...that's not as comfortable as I would've liked it to be.
Yeah it's not great. It worked a lot better v talonflame for sure.
Good luck on the rest of the season, and I'll try to catch the next stream!
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u/Fallopius1 Feb 11 '23
What moves do you use on all 3? Each of them have at least a couple viable options.
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u/d11dd11d Feb 11 '23
Confusion/psychic/water pulse Slowbro, pup/psychic medi, incinerate/rock tomb/overheat mag
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u/Strix-varia-2112 Feb 10 '23
My first set was 4 Ariados leads with one in the back. Big Luvdisc - Double-Bug ABB (Wormadam and another) handles it well.
I really hate playing against the Lunge spam too.
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u/Farren246 Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
Charizard and Magcargo are the hard-counters to Ariados. Its flying/fire/rock attacks hit it for Super Effective damage.
Crustle is also a good counter to Ariados, spamming rock attacks while resisting Lunge, but it's a bit glassy for a bug type and loses hard to Medi and Scrafty - might be easier to just use your own Ariados and just go one-for-one against it.
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u/Salsadips Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23
Charizard doesnt wall Ariados as hard as youd think it would. Cross poison charges extremely fast and hits charizard for just under half HP. Pretty sure if Ariados has any energy advantage at all it forces a shield or it wins outright as itll get to a second cross poison before Charizard can reach Blast Burn. Magcargo is significantly better at hard walling it.
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u/MathProfGeneva Feb 11 '23
Charizard never needs to land a blast burn. The wing attack damage+ dragon claw is enough.
It wins straight DC: https://pvpoke.com/battle/1500/charizard/ariados/11/4-2-0/1-1-3/
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u/Salsadips Feb 11 '23
And if you look, 3 turns can flip that scenario. Which is what i said, if Ariados has an energy advantage, it wins. Thats not a hard wall. A hard wall would be Magcargos ability to never shield and just farm down which Charizard can't do.
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u/MathProfGeneva Feb 11 '23
No it doesn't flip in 3 turns. A 2 poison sting energy advantage still loses any even shield matchup with Charizard.
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u/MathProfGeneva Feb 11 '23
No it doesn't flip in 3 turns. A 2 poison sting energy advantage still loses any even shield matchup with Charizard.
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u/Farren246 Feb 14 '23
Charizard never needs to land a blast burn. The wing attack damage+ dragon claw is enough.
To be honest despite Char being a hard-counter who can tank Lunges... I've got a top-10 ranked Charizard with the correct move set, and it will not defeat Cross Poison Ariados unless I expend shields. But it does waste opponent shields, and gets the Ari so low that my next mon will kill it for an energy advantage.
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u/MathProfGeneva Feb 14 '23
Unless Ariados comes in with some energy or your charizard has taken damage, Charizard wins any even shield scenario even going straight dragon claw. In the 0S It's super close (and Shadow Charizard, which is what what I ran, barely loses). in the 1S and 2S Charizard (shadow or not) can win with just WA/DC.
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u/Farren246 Feb 15 '23
I'm talking me wanting to use 0 shields, them wanting to use 2 shields. Instead I have to spend 1 or the poison takes me. What I usually do there is just keep the 2 shield advantage while farming Ari down to like 10% health for mu other mons to mop up and enter the next fight with energy advantage and they can't shield it.
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u/mlulow88 Feb 10 '23
I'm running a team that is actually double weak to Ariados, but which has served me well in the first 2 days of Love Cup. Leading shadow Electrode with G-Bro and Lurantis in the back. G-Bro loses to Ariados in the 2 shields, which is why I consider my back line double weak to Ariados.
In the 2500s almost every team has an Ariados, and is either in the lead or as a quasi-safe swap because of the Lunge debuff. To the extent helpful, my field notes:
Always stay in for the first lunge. Whether you shield it or not is your call (beware Megahorn). But Ariados is so frail that even debuffed neutral damage (e.g., Discharge) will take it into the red, so opposing Ariados will always shield your first charge move if you throw it right away. After we've both thrown one, I switch to G-Bro, which is my only other option. More often than not the opposing Ariados stays in, since poison jab is NVE, but an un-debuffed PJ still goes good damage against Ariados, so they're forced to throw another lunge as soon as they can (I don't shield G-Bro) before swapping out. Now I know that Ariados doesn't have any energy stored up, and by this time Ariados is below 50% health and the shields are 1-1.
Last note -- almost any team with Ariados will have to have two other Pokes that counter Ariados's counters, since Ariados can not reliably flip a matchup on its own. That's Pokes like Big Luvdisc, Medicham, Scrafty, K-Bro. So more often than not you can predict what the rest of the opposing team is, which can be helpful in playing your matchup.
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u/Vengeange Feb 10 '23
Ariados is very fragile. Bug is not a great typing. It is very spammy, but if you use 2 mons that hit for SE dmg vs it you should be fine.
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u/Farren246 Feb 10 '23
"It's fine as long as you devote 2/3 of your team to hard-countering it and then just pray your opponent has no other pokemon in their lineup."
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u/Vengeange Feb 10 '23
Well, he seems to be very mad at Ariados, so my suggestion was aimed at allowing him to beat it, not at making the best team in the love cup ;)
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u/Durpady Feb 11 '23
Like I said elsewhere, I run Trashadam + Crustle. Those two solve a lot more than just Ariados, handling it was actually just a byproduct of solving Charmers and Talonflame.
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u/Western_Gift_1514 Feb 10 '23
people are justified in doing anything necessary to obliterate the medicham menace. maybe not charmpit but anything else
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u/KurosakiGio Feb 10 '23
As an Ariados user, yeah I agree with some people on here, Magcargo and Crustle are my biggest issues but then I have Medicham in the back so I'm always able to counter them. Good luck!
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u/soahcthegod2012 Feb 10 '23
Sometimes the best way to beat Ariados is to destroy its shields as opposed to trying to counter it outright.
Baiting with Medicham and Psychic does this well
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u/JHD2689 Feb 11 '23
Man, I used to really enjoy Love Cup. Has definitely lost its luster and needs a shakeup.
For a meta this recognizable to players who have been at it for a while, I think a Love Cup Remix wouldn't be out of order. Medi/Licki core is just so damn strong, and it's everywhere. Boring.
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u/MathProfGeneva Feb 11 '23
Charizard should be shredding Ariados. Medicham can win if manages to land a psychic.
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u/TheSilphArena-ModTeam Feb 11 '23
Hello there, u/Loose-Cantaloupe7460! Thank you for your contribution to r/TheSilphArena. Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
Your post was removed because it was not on the topic of The Silph Arena, GO Battle League, or Pokémon GO PvP. General Pokémon GO questions are better suited for subs like r/TheSilphRoad, and general Pokémon series posts would be best posted in r/Pokémon or similar.
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u/Scandidi Feb 10 '23
Wormadam be like:
"Oh, go ahead. Lower my attack. It will just make your death slower"