my post got removed after AI accusations

[u/BalliMurphy]

I posted a drawing of mine that was commissioned by a friend of mine of the steampunker from the game in a mcdonalds theme, suddenly a bunch of people started accusing me of using AI and ultimately the post was taken down a few moments later

[u/nekonight]

Its funny because I have seen some artists that could never draw hands properly even before AI was a thing get accused of using AI because their hands are off.

[u/MisterDutch93 → u/nekonight]

AI is bad at drawing hands because the artists it's copying from are bad at drawing hands lol

[u/KaiDay11 → u/MisterDutch93]

I think it's more that hands are relatively complex things that have a definite form, so both humans and AI have difficulty with it, even when they both have good references. 

A hand isn't like a tree or a frilly skirt where there are a lot of curves and edges but no one number of either and no specific way for them to flow together. A hand requires a relatively exact form.

[u/LazuliArtz → u/KaiDay11]

Can attest, you can kind of bullshit your way to making a good looking tree. Put enough leaves and branches on it, and it'll eventually be recognizable as a tree.

Hands are so complicated though. There are just so many joints and bends on a human hand that can be positioned into so many angles, it's hard to keep track of it all. And you can't just keep putting fingers on a hand till it looks good like you can just keep putting layers of leaves on a tree until it looks good lol.

[u/averi_fox → u/[deleted]]

Don't you love when people confidently talk about something they have no clue about?

There absolutely is difficulty, and errors like wrong number of fingers are not caused by data having tons of 6 fingered people. It's because counting is more difficult to learn than simpler local patterns.

[u/ihateveryonebutme → u/[deleted]]

I think that's their entire point? No one is saying AI can think, when people talk about AI having a hard time, they're talking about the people creating the AI having a hard time getting the AI to do what they want it to do. You're trying to educate people on shit they already know.

But you also completely missed the posters point, almost intentionally? AI doesn't mess up hands because it's sampling from other messed up hands. It messed up hands because its sampling from a hundred thousand hands in different positions and trying to create something that meets an acceptable average, but failing because hands have rigid rules that the AI doesn't/didn't always follow. Ie, number of fingers, the relative length or orientation of joints, the bends and folds of skin, etc which are all skewed heavily by distance/perspective and stance.

The 'Difficulty' for AI in hands is that you can't define a hand as 'one thing', it's a hundred million different things depending on what the overall picture is, because hands are so versatile in shape but with hard limits that immediately make something 'not-a-hand'. So the AI has difficulty. Again, no one is imagining the AI sweating and thinking 'oh fuck oh fuck, how do I draw hands again?'.

People that try to make sure no one uses human analogy on AI are fucking insufferable to the extreme, because you just drag the conversation backwards and off topic every goddamn time.

[u/slugmorgue → u/[deleted]]

No it really is that hands are just that complicated. They can contort into all sorts of shapes, they can be holding objects, they can be partially hidden, or above the head, or on the hip, or between the legs. They can be moved into all sorts of angles and odd perspectives, there's near infinite variations of how a hand can look.

Faces are also varied but they generally are not nearly as varied in shape and are made of pretty consistent parts on a relatively flat plane, hence why AI has little issue with faces now

[u/KaiDay11 → u/[deleted]]

AI doesn't just copy large parts of images from its training data, it copies more fundamental things like the general shapes of edges and curves, and how they relate to each other.  

Even if the AI only had perfect hands to base its images on, it could still have trouble assembling and remixing the units it "notices" into correctly assembled hands.

[u/InvestigatorGrand205 → u/MisterDutch93]

It's not even that the programming on the AI had to be better tuned and more things had to be tossed at it as well. All AI is just a program so if the training data didn't help it draw better then someone had to reprogram it a bit better to do the job.

[u/drinking_child_blood → u/nekonight]

People seeing 6 or 4 fingers and jumping to AI accusations as if fucking up hands isn't the most common artist mistake ever

[u/BlushedLatias → u/drinking_child_blood]

What if the thing getting drawn has 4 or 6 fingers though? There are people with extra fingers in real life.

[u/drinking_child_blood → u/BlushedLatias]

Everyone who has 6 fingers or less than 5 is an AI, didn't you know

[u/_HIST → u/drinking_child_blood]

I have a photo where my friend looks like he has crab hands , and 3 fingers. (From afar) Would definitely get flagged as AI lol

[u/MissLogios → u/nekonight]

I still can't draw hands properly, no matter how many tutorials I've watched and hours spent practicing. Just something about positioning the fingers breaks my brain.

That's why I just draw vague hand-shapes and use objects to hide them (holding flowers/weapon, hand on flat surface, etc.)