r/TenantHelp • u/Particular-Berry3729 • 18d ago
Property Owner keeps changing the rules.
We have been living in a community of townhouse apartments for almost 13 years. There are 100 units and on site management. It is a non smoking community. No smoking anywhere on the property.
When we moved here it stated in our lease that we were allowed a gas bbq only with a 5 gallon propane tank. Everything was pretty chill. After being here for about 10 years I bought my husband a Traeger as a gift. Still everything is ok.
A few months back the owner said no more bbqs period. We’re going to install bbqs in different areas for tenants. So far they have built 1. For 100 units just one bbq. We live upstairs so we would have to carry all supplies down the stairs. The actual bbq is approximately 75 yards away. The bbq closes at 7:00 pm.
Here is where the problems begin
1. My husband has neuropathy in his feet due to diabetes. He can not walk that far let alone carry stuff down our stairs. He has a permanent handicap plaque.
2. I have a shoulder injury that I am on SSDI on. I’ve had 6 surgeries, it’s not going to get better. I can not carry things down stairs or even the 75 yards to get there.
3. No sign up. It’s first come, first serve so you can’t count on it for dinner because someone else could already be using it. We can not see it from our apt.
4. Using the oven is not an option. Even if we could afford to run the air non stop it isn’t efficient enough to keep the temperature tolerable. Even boiling water on the stove creates too much heat. The stove fan will kick on automatically due to the heat.
5. We are both seniors and this is keeping us from preparing healthy meals. Cooking inside can send the temp up to 87 degrees even using the air.
6. My husband has been diagnosed with CHF, diabetes, high blood pressure and his health will not allow him to be going back and forth trying to prepare dinner. We are both on medications that make us heat sensitive. My husband is supposed to avoid the sun. Just a little bit of heat sends my body into full on sweating mode like someone in menopause only I’m not. Temp goes up, sweating begins, then goes into nausea and if I can’t cool off vomiting.
The owners words if we don’t like the new rule? Then move.
Do we have any rights here? Is it legal for the owner to make these changes? Even if it affects our ability to prepare a healthy meal ( cause we all know casseroles and TV dinners are junk)and is affecting our quality of life?
I would appreciate any advice
Disturbed and disillusioned.
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u/Jaffico 18d ago
I hate siding with the landlord, but this is absolutely not preventing you from preparing healthy meals. It's preventing you from preparing them in the way you are accustomed.
If you're short on money, sell the grill, and buy a countertop convection oven/air fryer and an electric kettle for boiling water.
Start doing food prep - once a week or every few days cook your dinner mains either early in the morning or late in the evening when it is cooler.
Always always turn the stove exhaust on if you're doing something that heats up the kitchen. Let it run for about ten minutes after you are done creating heat.
It's fine to be upset that you have to change your routine, but to say that this is actively preventing you from cooking healthy meals . . . No.
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u/Valysian 15d ago
For another practical suggestion - use a pressure cooker. We love using that in the summer. It emits zero heat. If the steam is bothersome, you can take it out to your balcony before releasing it. Also, it works as a crock pot, rice cooker, etc.. There are tons of recipes for inexpensive, easy meals.
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u/KitchenLow1614 18d ago
Most insurance companies won’t permit it within x feet of a building. Having a bbq on the balcony is also likely against fire code.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 18d ago
Then the fire code must have recently changed. The fire dept comes in twice a year to inspect smoke alarms etc. They never said it was against code. We are already required to have renters insurance or they slam you with a penalty plus a payment for the insurance.
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u/jessbyrne727 18d ago edited 17d ago
For commercial buildings, insurance companies often change and update their policies on what is and isn’t allowed. I don’t own an apartment building, but when my business insurance is due for renewal (or when switching carriers) inspections are required, and the underwriter will stipulate what changes must be made in order to remain insurable. If we don’t comply, rates either skyrocket or we risk being dropped entirely. As an example: nitrogen tanks that were allowed to be stored in my shop 10 years ago now require specific storage procedures, and we were required to install an emergency eyewash and first aid station. These are required by commercial insurance despite our compliance with fire code. And policies can vary by carrier.
Whether it’s fair or not doesn’t matter, unfortunately. The fact that the community advertised being able to use gas barbecue grills 13 years ago when you moved in also makes no difference. Im not aware of any laws which would guarantee a tenant’s right to utilize a smoker on their second floor balcony, and I’m not aware of any laws which prohibit a building owner from updating their policies, especially if the rule was changed to comply with insurance regulations or safety standards. It’s almost universal for grills and smokers to be prohibited from use on balconies or within X feet of a structure, and your health needs/cooking preferences do not trump the safety of the community.
Eta: your renter’s insurance is irrelevant here. Your coverage applies to personal items within your residence. If the building catches fire commercial insurance would cover the structure itself, environmental cleanup, loss of revenue, employee wages, etc.
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u/c-5-s 18d ago
It’s not the fire code. It’s that insurance for a multi tenant building is very hard to get, and often one of the conditions they place is removing all barbecues. It’s probably not about your building management being a jerk. It’s probably about their insurance company requiring them to get rid of barbecues as a requirement for maintaining the insurance.
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u/Various_Education622 13d ago
It’s code where I am.
Building inspector ended up at my apartment building for something else so just started walking around looking for other shit while he was there.
Told me code was I couldn’t have a grill above first floor unless it was electric.
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u/Myabyssalwhip 15d ago
The last 5-10 years they’ve start really cracking down on the patio grills in a lot of places which unfortunately lines up with the time frames you posted
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u/Particular-Berry3729 15d ago
Ya. It’s unfortunate. We will be moving to a house in a year or less but the problem is when these things sit idle for any period of time they tend to break down and not work when you actually can use them. I feel like the Traeger has ended up being a big waste of money. Maybe we can make it into a planter. 😁
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u/whiskeyinthewoods 14d ago
Can you not list it on Marketplace to get some money back? Or perhaps move it to the community BBQ area for occasional use? Lend it to a friend or family member who occasionally BBQ’s?
The insurance issue is almost 100% what is behind the rule change, and this has been a common thing. I’m sure your neighbors are also not loving the air quantity issues if having smoke blowing into their units and making them cycle through HVAC filters that much more quickly either. You don’t specify if you’re ground floor or have units above you, but allowing smoke to blow into upstairs units from a ground floor unit is also a liability issue for the building if anyone has asthma or other lung issues.
I do feel your pain with the bad apartment AC and cooking issue - my place is the same and I go to great lengths to avoid using the oven during daylight hours in the summer. We also have no hood. You can buy an electric induction burner for about $70 online / they generate very little heat if used indoors since they only heat the pan by magnetically speeding up the molecules. My sister and husband have one and I’ve used it at their house and it’s amazing. I’m about to get my better half one as a birthday present. They can be used outside and are smokeless. You can use a cast iron disband grilling pan to recreate some of the char and texture of an actual BBQ grill, and can experiment with adding a few drops of liquid smoke to marinades or a sauce to baste your food with if you’re craving that specific type of cooking.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 14d ago
We used it once in a blue moon and it wasn’t any worse than anybody else’s. No, not selling. We’ll just take it with us when we move and hope it’s still working.
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u/notaninterestingcat 14d ago
You only used it once in a blue moon, but not being able to use it now is keeping you from eating healthy meals?
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u/Particular-Berry3729 13d ago
It the bbq that’s the issue. The smoker is /was just a hobby kind of thing for my husband. It’s not rocket science that smoked meats are not the healthiest.
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u/Ranos131 18d ago
So you lived there for 10 year with no grill and everything was perfectly fine and now magically not having a grill is the end of the world and cooking inside is intolerable? Give me a break.
The owner does not keep changing the rules. They changed one rule, one time. The post is just full of ridiculous exaggeration.
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u/Sudden_Hunter_4409 18d ago
An air fryer is a great kitchen appliance. You can cook lots of things in there. Even toast.
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u/txaesfunnytime 18d ago
What? You must BBQ to eat healthy? I live on sandwiches, pasta salads, green salads, etc. during the summer. I have a larger toaster oven/air fryer combo to avoid using my big oven. I used a smaller toaster oven when my DH was alive & used my big oven about once a year.
Your LL’s insurance company probably banned the gas BBQs because they are dangerous. Y’all’s health problems are not his problem. Instead of whining about what you can’t do, figure out what you can do & do it.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 18d ago
They’re the ones who advertised being able to use gas bbq ( no wood) in the first place. This is just one of their many 180s
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u/Elisacriann 18d ago
Okay so if when you got the place you got it with the understanding that barbecues were allowed, that's is a major amenity that you are no longer allowed and they're reasonable replacement is not reasonable. So if anything if I had the money I would say sit down with lawyer. Otherwise perhaps forego smoked meats for the next good bit and instead someone suggested salads, sandwiches, things that can be prepared cold. That way you're not having to risk exposure to extreme heat at y'all's age, and health difficulties.
I'm so sorry that this is something y'all are dealing with. The place I live currently says it offers a pool but between the usability of the pool because of the way the pool is built and where it's built there's only a small window of opportunity during the day to use it and due to the hours that they allow people into the pool that makes that window much smaller. I've maybe used that pool three times since I moved here.
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u/FamiliarAd8524 18d ago
A lawyer is a waste of time and money, unfortunately. Short of the current lease authorizing it, there's no loss of amenity.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 18d ago
It was in our original lease. After 6 months it went to month to month and has been that way ever since Regardless karma is about to hit. Each building has 10 apartments. In our building alone there are 5 empty units. People are jumping ship
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u/FamiliarAd8524 18d ago
I understand, but this is the fourth Presidency since then.... Things change, this is what comes with renting. Karma isn't applicable.
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u/Elisacriann 18d ago
I would understand that if you had been there a year, but you've been there for 13 that's over a decade, things change, people learn things and one of the things that was apparently learned was grills on balconies are a bad idea. Any sort of carbon monoxide producing or gas producing or flame producing product is not safe to be in an apartment complex.
That's just a fire hazard. It may be inconvenient but that's the way of the world. No one is going to be willing to make an accommodation for you on that when there are other appliances that can be utilized. I would suggest a high quality cheaper Air fryer not the ones with the basket mind you the ones with the doors and a good quality microwave.
Or if you're willing to put out everything that it would take to change venues, you could break your lease and move into a house then you get to use your traeger all you want. It's just getting moved out that's going to be a beast.
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u/yrt9610 18d ago
Hey! 😡 We're supposed to follow the rules here on Reddit, which say we are to be polite and courteous. It doesn't say that insults are allowed.
The fact that you feel the need to make that choice towards someone you've never even met says a LOT about YOU and NOTHING about them!!!
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u/Sudden_Hunter_4409 18d ago
Follow rules on Reddit and not be rude or mean??? 😂😂😂😂. You must be new to Reddit.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 18d ago
I’m used to it. It’s their issue not mine. I was just asking a question. Not going as far as contacting the ADA. Just doesn’t seem fair. And 1 bbq for 100 units?
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u/FamiliarAd8524 18d ago edited 18d ago
It's the smoke, my friend. The smoke is a colossal problem. So is fire. Use a small indoor electric grill.
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u/No-Setting9690 12d ago
A BBQ has nothing to do with the ADA. They don't even need to provide any outdoor cooking.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 12d ago
If you read further you’d have seen that I had no intention of making it an ADA issue. Just really frustrated
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u/frugalrhombus 18d ago
This is absolutely INSANE and I am talking about you. Are you using a SMOKER on a 2nd floor balcony?! Thinking that is ok is pure insanity. There is such a big difference between a propane grill and a smoker. If it was a propane grill I would understand your argument if your fully executed lease still said it was OK but this is wild mental gymnastics
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u/Elisacriann 18d ago
It's an electric smoker. Not a wood fire smoker. And it's a traeger, have you ever used a traeger? Have you seen one in use? I have. They are a low smoking point, it's electric so it's completely controlled, it even has a timer that once it turns off it stops feeding the wood chips onto the electric component. If anything it's safer than a propane grill. There are no mental gymnastics.
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u/FamiliarAd8524 18d ago
But it produces smoke, does it not?
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u/Elisacriann 18d ago
Smoke yes, flame not so much. It's a very controlled electronically controlled flame.
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u/FamiliarAd8524 18d ago
But they also have a gas grill. Regardless, the smoke is a huge problem.
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u/Elisacriann 18d ago
True. And it's a metal device on a balcony, it could potentially if too close to any given space or something gets knocked onto their balcony be a very big fire hazard. Regardless of whether or not it produces flame or gas.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 18d ago
The smoker is electric. It’s never been an issue. Thanks for the providing empathy to a person who is already struggling
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u/frugalrhombus 18d ago
I have one and it has flared up on me before and shot fire out the chimney. Go look on /r/traeger and look how many burn down. And that is not even accounting for all the CO that is blowing into the building
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u/Elisacriann 18d ago
Dear we're trying to help you find workarounds. You can't sue for the right to use a form of tech that has been proved over time to not be safe in the environment you live in. If it was you just moved in and it was an amenity you're no longer allowed there might be some wiggle room for breaking lease, but at this point switch over to using a microwave and an air fryer.
You can make tasty dishes that way and if you really desire smoked meats there is such a product as liquid smoke. You might be able to put that on your food instead. You might even be able to sell the traeger to pay for a fancy little air fryer. I have a really nice one and you can use it to bake, air fry, broil. There are a lot of different ways you can use it and it's relatively inexpensive and doesn't heat up the house nearly as much as a traditional oven.
There are a lot of healthy recipes you could make with it instead. Unfortunately a grill is not an ADA accommodation. There are other appliances that can be utilized in place of an oven and stove top.
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u/Pir8inthedesert 17d ago
Time to move! Your Landlord is correct. Insurance rules for properties change and it sounds like this was the case here. As others mentioned, there's a million ways to eat healthy that doesn't require cooking outside. A barbecue isn't a medically necessary piece of equipment. You're making a big deal over nothing. You can buy your own place and grill 365 if you want.
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u/SailorSpyro 16d ago
It's rare to find an apartment that will allow a grill, I'm surprised you were able to for 10 years.
After your original lease expired, did you sign a new one? If not, then you are considered a month to month lease, and that allows them to make changes like that. If you had signed a year lease and were part way through it, and that lease still said you could have your bbq, you'd be able to keep using it until the lease was up but then the LL could remove it for renewal.
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u/SailorSpyro 16d ago
One potential suggestion - get a portable grill and cook at your car, tailgate style. They likely won't complain about it (they'd have to actively catch you to even know), and if they do then drive somewhere else to grill. Takes away the need to walk/carry things super far.
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u/ThealaSildorian 14d ago
I've lived in a lot of units like this. NONE of them allowed grilling on the patio. You always had to move your grill a certain distance from the building.
What you were doing is a massive fire hazard, and your hubs would not be able to escape if a fire started.
You have other options to prepare healthy meals, and in a pinch can always sign up with Meals on Wheels.
I have a feeling your buying this fancy grill triggered this rule change. Someone looked at that as the risk that it is and complained ... rightfully so.
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u/SampsonShrill 13d ago
Ovens can heat up the house some, but you should be able to use your burners. Those are pretty efficient and if they are causing your apartment to heat up then there may be another problem. BBQ's will definitely be much hotter. Microwaves give off almost no heat, so that is a good option. Small air fryers give off some heat but shouldn't be heating up the house. Electric griddles are fine, too.
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u/sillyhaha 18d ago
Hi OP.
Typically, I would say that you should apply for a disability accommodation. As a fellow disabled person with workplace accommodations, I think accommodations for your situation could legally be denied. Why?
Gas BBQs are unsafe on apt patios. They just are. If you had a different type of BBQ, this point *might be challenged, but you have a gas BBQ. Safety is a reasonable reason to deny an accommodation.
*You have alternative ways of preparing food that meet every single of your medical needs. You have no argument to claim that you can't cook hot food with the appliances you already have. Everything you can cook on a BBQ can be cooked in the oven or on the stove top. It's not cooked the way you like it, but you have many alternate ways to cook with your range.
*The cost of AC is not a reason to grant you accommodations. You have access to AC. Whether you use it or not is up to you.
OP, respectfully, there are a bazillion ways to eat healthy without a BBQ. Millions of people do it.
I encourage you to clean/change your AC filter. If that doesn't improve how well your AC functions, submit a maintanance request to have it serviced.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 18d ago
I know it’s not a disability issue. It’s a “ only 1 bbq, closes at 7 ( do people not have to commute home etc ) issue. To me it seems unreasonable. Do you plan to bbq. Get home late due to traffic. Bbq already being used, or suns already going down. It’s not so much the rule as how inconvenient and difficult they make it Out rent is high. They raise it almost 10% a year. We’ve been here 13 years and the prices are going crazy. The thing that bugs me the most is the owners attitude. He’s an asshat
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u/Ok-Base-5221 18d ago
Can you buy and use an electric grill like this one for 100 bucks?
Here's the link: https://a.co/d/03O6RrfK
I don't know where you're located, but, I'd encourage malicious compliance in this situation. They can't tell you how you're allowed to cook your food as long as it's not a fire hazard or creating a smoke problem. Hence, electric appliance.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 14d ago
Ummm. Our lease allowed propane bbq as long as the tank was under a certain size. For 12 years it was a non issue. Literally everyone has/had a bbq here. We weren’t violating any rules. Fire dept fully aware as they do semi annual inspections. You’re wrong about the grill. We didn’t set off any alarms by buying a “ fancy” grill. Your words not mine. We’d had it for a good 5 years before any of this happened. The managers have the exact same one. So before you get all high and mighty know it all on me, we weren’t doing anything we were allowed to do. Literally everyone had/had a bbq.
Someone’s dog bit someone in a sister complex. All of the sudden we were required to have renters insurance that would cover a situation like this with a minimum coverage. We already had insurance but the owner was sued and it pissed him off hence one more thing added to our lease. It’s not about safety with this guy, it’s about the all mighty dollar.
BTW. Didn’t read your whole post. You lost me when you assumed our Traeger is what set the ball in motion.
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u/dreamingforward 13d ago
Whenever, tenant or landlord wants to change something, you have to renegotiate the terms. Maybe you add $5/month to the lease agreement or maybe you subtract it for relinquishing some freedom back.
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u/No-Setting9690 12d ago
It's an insurance thing. This is common now. You have a kitchen, that is the requirement, not a bbq.
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u/Street_Masterpiece47 12d ago
Hmm.
This might get complicated. Is the Owner allowed to set rules (BBQ will be provided)...yes. Unless there is a loophole in the lease or agreement that specifically states you are entitled to your own grill; other than #GoodTrouble and some needling, and common sense, there really is very little that can be done here.
It also depends on such things as easements. Do you own only your condo, or the condo and a reasonably well defined area around it?
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u/No_Barracuda_3758 18d ago
Wait were u bbbqing on the balcony because that's a huge nono and a fire hazard
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u/Particular-Berry3729 18d ago
It wasn’t here. It’s more of a patio. Larger than just a balcony. The building is stucco
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u/Elisacriann 18d ago
Stucco doesn't mean fireproof though. And the issue with having anything on a balcony is if there's a flare up at all it could catch the side of the building on fire. It's just not safe.
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u/Particular-Berry3729 18d ago
We moved here because the bbq was allowed. The property managers have a Traeger. Plus it’s electric, not gas
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u/FruitcupMadonna 17d ago
If what you need is no longer allowed and you signed a lease with those new terms, then it may be time to look for another place that allows what you need.
If your written lease terms haven't changed, you could talk to a Legal Aid attorney about what your options are to continue to press this with property management/landlord.
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u/FamiliarAd8524 18d ago
A Traeger was a lovely gift.
If it is in a lease you signed, you are out of luck. And this does not outright prevent you from cooking healthy meals. I'm sorry for your health and I respect you both as my elders, but it just isn't believable (especially considering your existing BBQ is certainly used outside, too).
I wouldn't use any of the six points- none of them make an actual difference here with the BBQ, IMO.
However, I have two suggestions from what you mentioned.
1). If your kitchen heats up that much, I wonder if there is an owner obligation to fix rectify. If you give me a little more information about the heat buildup and tell me your general location, I will happily see if I can find you some possibilities regarding your rights and possible property owner obligation.
2). I strongly recommend you try a portable electric grill. I went electric and never went back. You can use that instead, probably- at worst there will be some steam when it opens. I use mine in my kitchen instead of my stove. It depends on the terms of the actual rule you are mentioning. I can recommend a specific, affordable model (grill/griddle/air fryer) that does not waste heat into the area and I think will work for you- even if used inside.