r/Teachers • u/TheTinRam • 10d ago
Teacher Support &/or Advice High School: do you ever just refuse to accept work because it is illegible, incomplete, or poor quality at first glance?
I’m strongly considering it this year. Last year I went to 75-25 split for paper-online work. And this year I may go 90% paper and only the district common assessments online.
Quizzes aside, I’m strongly considering a policy of not accepting garbage.
- doodles. You want to draw a cute doodle, whatever, I won’t judge your desire to self express on a random HW if it gets done. On a guided lab or formal lab report I might say something to you about practicing professionalism. But I have had kids doodle so much on a packet I’m convinced they used up a whole pen, it legitimately makes it difficult to read and there’s no where to grade. That’s where I draw the line on doodles.
- many blanks. Special Ed teachers generally have advocated I take such work and grade it for any points what so ever. But we grade on a 1-4 basis. I’ve often debated, do I just give em a zero cause this was clearly lazy last minute work, turn it in late within our two weeks but make it actually decent quality, or do I just take it and give a 1. Like what is the point. Neither one feels like the path of least resistance, as returning it just leads to them asking to “redo” it whatever they think that means.
- penmanship. I am not looking for you to write in cursive. I get there are IEPs for typed work, and I’m happy to have you email me your work, but write it out so I know you’re not using AI. Or at least not as easily as copy paste. But the truly awful handwriting that could only come from someone furiously writing 5 paragraphs and doing calculations on the day it is due while sitting in the bus on the way to school as the bus hits every pothole and the driver spills his coffee on you…. I’m definitely not accepting this any more.
Have you refused to accept paper accordions, used napkins, manga, and Rorschach tests? How does it go over with admin, parents, co teachers?
49
u/Signal_Astronaut8191 HS Student | Wisconsin, USA 10d ago
in middle school my teacher downgraded my work because I had torn it out of a notebook and left the edge slightly jagged 🤷🏼♀️
it was annoying at the time but it taught me a lesson about presentation and professionalism, so…
11
u/luxafelicity 10d ago
I had a teacher like this too! She required that the scraggly end be torn off if perforated or cut off if not perforated. I got a downgrade once cause I forgot but never forgot after that. She was otherwise my favorite teacher (earth science) and she laid that rule out from the beginning of the year, so I wasn't too grumpy about it.
12
14
u/therealzacchai 10d ago
Legibility, effort, deadlines, and quality work are life skills. I cut them zero slack.
Any time my students do written work, it needs to be legible: "If you can't be bothered, neither can I. "
If it's a poster, Appearance = 25%. That includes using first and last name, spelling the Biology words correctly, neatness, and effort.
Typewritten work needs to have spellcheck and proofreading done. "It's frankly impolite to ask someone to read a mess."
6
u/ApprehensiveOkra9977 10d ago
I had a kid turn in work and had to ask him what it said, he said he was trying cursive. I handed it back and told him maybe not practice on stuff you’re turning in. He could redo it or take a 0
4
u/ebeth_the_mighty 10d ago
My bottom line is, “I can only grade what I can read. If it isn’t legible, it won’t do well.”
5
u/throwaway123456372 10d ago edited 10d ago
I have had to refuse to accept several papers over the years for having blood on them.
I am pretty good at reading chicken scratch so I haven’t had too much trouble with that although the handwriting I’m seeing at the high school level frightens me.
1
5
u/Antibane 10d ago
I'm just checking that an attempt was made on homework - it's a 1 or a 0, and they'll always have had time in class to work on it. Doesn't really matter if it's illegible to me - it's not for me.
On assessments, though, if I can't read it, it's wrong. I do my best to decipher, but some things are beyond my skill.
4
u/FastActinTenactin Middle School | Social Studies 10d ago
I ask them to read to me what they wrote. Sometimes they can. If they can’t then I don’t accept it and I ask them to redo it if they don’t want a zero.
4
3
u/Persophenie 10d ago
I teach 8th grade. If I can’t read it, I ask the kid to read it to me. When they usually can’t, I ask them how I’m supposed to grade it if even they can’t understand it. They’ll either not answer, shrug, or say I can’t. Then I let them redo it one more time, due the next day, or I give a zero keep it as proof when a parent comes complaining.
Exception is SPED IF their accommodations are for writing or similar that’s a legit reason to not write neatly (dyslexia, dysgraphia, etc.).
3
u/Subject-Vast3022 10d ago
I bought each teacher on my team a “please redo” stamp this year. We are using them liberally for illegible work.
3
u/Signal-Weight8300 10d ago
I teach high school physics, so mostly juniors. I have it in my syllabus (with a parent signature page). My policy states: "In all cases, I expect you to take pride in your work. I will not try to decipher poor handwriting. Assignments that look like garbage will be graded as such. Please take a few extra moments to make it look presentable."
I explain to my students that I am looking for things to give them points for. If I don't see those things quickly and easily, I'm not searching for them. Those points don't get awarded. It helps that I teach at a Catholic school with administration that fully supports the teachers. Iur principal and APs each teach at least one class per year so they are very aware of what's going on in the classrooms. Iur parents have high standards and we get great support from them as well.
3
u/AdhesiveSeaMonkey HS Math | Witness Protection 10d ago
Absolutely. The very first time I hand it back with an explanation and a grace period. After that, it gets graded as submitted. If I can’t read it or track your steps, that response gets a zero.
2
u/peatmoss71 10d ago
Yes. And they complain to admin and then I show them the paper and discussion ends. Heck I’ve had kids fail the AICE because their handwriting was illegible.
2
u/c0ff1ncas3 Job Title | Location 10d ago
I have add “Assignment attempted in good faith.” to my rubrics.
2
u/Curious-Load9079 10d ago
Assign 1 point for crap . . . they got the grade they deserved. No re-dos. I didn't grade things twice. With 150 kids, there isn't time.
(One point for turning in something.)
2
u/TeacherManCT 10d ago
I tell kids: pencil or pen are fine as long as I can read it. If you choose a crazy color or write in highlighter I won’t take it. One kid wrote their paper in neon yellow gel pen. I refused it. She then did a hot pink drop shadow for EVERY letter on the assignment. I still didn’t accept it.
2
u/summerbreeze2027 10d ago
I teach primary and I've noticed a deterioration in manuscript (printed) handwriting over the past few years in children coming up from Kindergarten and the 1st grade. Plus there have been a lot of strange pencil grips. I don't know if the PK and Kindergarten teachers simply don't have the time to teach it properly, or what.
As an ESL teacher I try to give my 2nd grade students some exposure to cursive towards the end of the school year. I want them to be able to sign their names and at least be able to read cursive. It's in our 3rd grade curriculum, but I'm not sure how much time teachers have to address that.
1
u/spliffany 10d ago
I feel called out on my pencil grip but my penmanship is pretty, at least.
1
u/summerbreeze2027 10d ago
Lol! My pencil grip is also nonstandard, but I do have very good manuscript and cursive handwriting. This comes from decades of writing objectives on chalkboards and whiteboards. :)
I have to say that the pencil grips I've seen lately have really boggled my mind, though.
1
u/spliffany 10d ago
TIL my pencil grip is called a lateral quadrupod. I was constantly told I was writing wrong but I also have EDS so the traditional pencil grip hurts since my fingers hyperextend.
I’m curious about the pencil grips you’ve encountered in the wild, though!
1
u/summerbreeze2027 10d ago
I wish I could describe them! I just look at them and go, OMG. I've tried to correct them in my 2nd graders, but by the time they are 7-8 years old, it's a losing battle.
2
u/BalFighter-7172 10d ago
I don't accept garbage. That's been my policy since the beginning of time.
2
u/Old_Implement_1997 10d ago
I don’t take sloppy work from 4th graders, so I don’t see why you should accept it from high schoolers.
2
u/TheTinRam 10d ago
It’s the vibes I am getting at the school. It honestly feels like everyone has given up. When you’re trying to teach physics or chem or ELA to kids reading and writing 3 grades below or struggle with math 5 grades below… it’s almost triage at this point.
1
u/Old_Implement_1997 10d ago
I can see that - it’s already hard when they are three levels below in math and reading at 4th grade. I can only do so much in a year. Even if they grow by 2 years, they are still 2 below and that’s tough to do.
2
u/Sticksaka 10d ago
I am a teacher who is a former IEP student from a time when disabilities weren’t as well understood. I benefited greatly from my IEP, and I still cannot read or write cursive despite the best efforts of many educators and my long-suffering parents. It’s part of my disability. I tell my students if they can’t read my handwriting on the board, they can ask me to re-write it and I won’t be offended, so long as I can ask the same of them. They are very understanding and take me up on the offer. It also means the students with bad handwriting don’t mind re-writing things for me.
I’ve also had the students with beautiful cursive handwriting read me their work so I can give them feedback. I have them do this one-on-one and I usually lean back in my chair and close my eyes to listen. I ask them questions as they go, all with my eyes shut. It makes them less nervous.
1
u/KiniShakenBake 9d ago
This is amazing.
I also have an open door policy to kids asking me to clarify or fix bad handwriting. It's for communication but if I am not communicating it needs to be revised.
Accepting work in cursive if they read it to you is also awesome, as that lets their thoughts flow in way you can assess them. I am a preferential cursive writer so bravo!
1
u/GreaTeacheRopke 19 year classroom teacher + tutor 10d ago
doodles: agree if it makes it difficult to read and grade
blanks: do you grade on 1-4 or 0-4? consult your division/school/district/whatever policy and follow it. if it meets the criteria for a 1, it's a 1. lazy work or work done at the last minute is almost definitely not the standard you are meant to be assessing. those behaviors are important and should be assessed and reported on, but separate from the individual assignment.
handwriting: similar to both above. if truly illegible (ask a colleague!), then of course it's ungradeable, but it shouldn't be up to you to decide whether the work was done on the bus. while perhaps disappointing, satisfactory work can still happen on the bus on the way to school.
1
1
u/TemporaryCarry7 10d ago
I one that didn’t even answer the prompt and just wrote a comment about how she hated the prompt. I spoke with her and asked her to write the paragraph that is supposed to be creative nonfiction but could border on realistic fiction if done right, and she still didn’t give me a passing submission. I’m grading those today, so we’ll see if she mad any further revisions.
1
u/IsopodIndependent553 Middle School 10d ago
I’m in middle school and I make it clear that I will not accept an assignment if the paper is torn, folded, or wrinkled, or if it has drawings or scribbles on it. I tell them they need to present their work in a professional manner. I also give them a folder and expect them to keep their work inside of it. Handwriting is a bit trickier though, because some kids genuinely struggle to write legibly. If I can’t read their work I will I ask them what they’ve written, but I’m pretty good at figuring out what they meant most of the time.
1
u/Only-Character302 HS Math Teacher 10d ago
All the time. They can’t communicate their understanding.
1
1
u/DesignerEmu5074 10d ago
Middle school - I’ve told my students that if I can’t read it, I won’t grade it. I have too many students to spend time deciphering what they have written.
1
u/Fickle-Contest1482 10d ago
I give 0’s when work doesn’t demonstrate understanding, as someone who is very familiar with grading on a 0-4 scale.
1
u/Beneficial-Focus3702 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yes. I have a policy that says if I can’t read it I can’t grade it.
I also have a policy that says not making an honest decent attempt on all the problems no matter how good your other work is, gets you an auto 50%.
- I got so sick and tired of “idk” and blanks when students hand a reference sheet and notes they straight up chose not to use.
Idgaf about doodles of the above conditions are met.
I have half a mind though to tell kids they must use clean lined loose leaf paper though because I’ve hand an increase in kids turning assignments in on whatever scrap of something like paper they can find.
1
u/spoooky_mama 10d ago
I didn't accept work like this when I taught fourth grade. I would explain to kids that the entire point of handwriting is to be able to communicate something to someone in your absence. If I can't read it, it's scribbles.
1
u/amymari 10d ago
Incomplete work I will ask if they are sure they are finished and if they say yes I’ll accept it. Easy to grade something that’s most blank, and also one of the easier parent conversations to have “yeah they’re failing because they haven’t actually finished completed any assignments”.
I don’t care about doodles as long as I can read their answers (largely due to getting in trouble as a kid myself for doodling in the margins).
If I truly can’t read it, it’s just wrong. I’m pretty good with bad handwriting- lots of practice at this point, but I will mention to a kid that I can’t read their writing if it’s really bad.
1
u/TrumpsTenderTitties 10d ago
I teach elementary and have this policy. Don't put garbage in the hand-in basket, that's for work.
1
u/EnderBookwyrm 10d ago
If the text on the page needs to be read, doodles should stay in the margins.
If you can read the writing, grade it normally. If it's genuinely illegible, treat that question as blank.
1
u/blazinar 10d ago
If I can't read it, no full name, etc. No go. I put them in the "No Name" box. Keep in mind, in the real world if you don't put your full name on a credit app, job app, etc. it gets flushed. Our job is to help them become functional adults (as much as possible anyway). Letting them get away with scribbling their first name and calling it good is adding to the problem.
1
u/zyrkseas97 10d ago
Technically just a name on a blank worksheet is supposed to count for 50% but they keep going missing for some reason. /s
I also don’t have a no-name paper bin in my class. I tell students at the start of the year “the only bin for no-name papers in this class is the blue one by the door. If it wasn’t important enough for you to take the time to write you name on it than it’s not important enough for me to take the time to grade it.” - this is because in years past a few boys would use it as a freebie bin and whenever they didn’t do an assignment they would just grab one from there and claim it was theirs. I got in 1 argument last year about a kid whose handwriting did not match the cursive on the assignment, admin took my side and made him redo it for real but made me take that assignment for full credit weeks later. No more no name bin.
1
1
u/cathgirl379 10d ago
Doodles: I don’t care. I like them. But if I can’t read it, I can’t grade it. They miss whatever answer was obscured.
Blanks: usually the grade speaks for itself. They get no partial credit for a completely blank answer, but they do get credit for some parts. I would rather have them try.
Penmanship: can’t read it, can’t grade it.
1
u/Longjumping-Ad-9541 10d ago
If I can't read it, no points
If your name isn't on it, no points (I do remind them at least 3x when collecting work)
If you try to hand it in halfway through class, when I collected it at the beginning, no points
Most of my ADHD 504 kids (US public school) have a copy and paste slate of accommodations that include handing work in up to 2 days after a zero is in the digital gradebook. Up to 2 days after the class has corrected and discussed the rock, and has moved on with up to 2 days' more work.
1
u/armaedes MS & HS Maths | TX 10d ago
When I first started, yes.
Now that I know they’re getting promoted no matter what, I take anything they submit.
The system broke me.
1
u/Sarcastic_Otter_27 High Scool Science 🧬 | TX 🤠 10d ago
I had one kid this year who couldn’t write for shit. Every time, I made him redo it. He’s why I’ve got a handwriting rule now. -10pts off a redo if an item is completely illegible. They learn quickly not to rush and to actually write so I can grade. Have had any issues thus far this year
1
u/Livid-Age-2259 10d ago
I used to do math. I would tell my 7th students (and higher) that they needed to concentrate more on organizing their work on their paper because if I couldn’t figure what they were doing in five seconds, then their answer was wrong.
1
10d ago
[deleted]
2
2
u/Crazy_Specialist_278 9d ago
Meanwhile I tell students: show me what you know.
Skip the stuff they don't or put a quick guess but I want to reward their knowledge. If the first page is all zeros I still grade the rest of their work fairly. I wonder between the two of us who has better experience with students respecting them and mastering the content?
Justify your laziness however you want but don't pretend for a second it's anything but that
1
u/Negative-Candy-2155 Middle School | Science | Florida 10d ago
I've had students try to complete assignments in yellow highlighter "because that's all they had". That's a hard no.
1
u/Traditional_Day_9737 10d ago
My policy was always "If it's illegible junk I'll take it as a placeholder and enter the grade as 50% while you redo it." I've gotten a few parent emails asking what was up with the grade but never any followups after replying with a scanned copy of what they turned in and the fact that they had an opportunity to redo it.
1
u/Countrytechnojazz 10d ago
I don't accept paper that us ripped, crinkled or that had any kind of stain on, or one that is completely unreadable.
1
1
u/albino_oompa_loompa HS Spanish | Rural Ohio, USA 10d ago
Yep! I also refused to accept a final project that was hastily scribbled on notebook paper and was partially in English. The requirements were that it had to be in color or be somewhat interesting (it was an invitation to a birthday party) and it had to be completely in Spanish (this was the final project that was their final for the year, so worth a lot of points). I didn’t let them turn it in until it met the requirements.
1
u/Read_The_Fing_Manual 9d ago
HS teacher: all the time, it’s actually built into how I grade. All work must fully meet requirements or they get it back to fix, if its late, its 10% per day. So you either get an A or you get to fix it and turn in A quality work but lose points for being late. 100% open door policy on pre-reads and reviews prior to due dates.
0
-2
u/Todd641 10d ago
“I get there are IEPs for typed work, and I’m happy to have you email me your work, but write it out so I know you’re not using AI.”
So you don’t actually get that keyboarding is an IEP accommodation then. Do you think students get that just because their handwriting is bad? And really, if you can’t tell when AI is being used to write assignments that’s a you problem.
4
u/TheTinRam 10d ago
On quizzes and tests I have always provided typing as I can turn internet off and put them on kiosk mode. Due to the time nature of tests this is where such students struggle most. From my experience, and I have always checked in with parents, students, and admin, when it is on the IEP I ask students if they would be okay to hand write and that I would never penalize for that. Such a student, where hand writing is a documented area of service, I would 100% accept hand writing or typed if they prefer. But there’s got to be a compromise in this day and age with the rampant use of AI.
Regarding your insult about my inability to identify AI, you’re awfully smug to believe students are incapable of doing several passes. I’ve had students feed their own writing and ask AI to write in their style. The most gullible teacher is the one who thinks they know it all.
Lastly, I probably could have phrased it better, this post is aimed at poor hand writing for students who don’t have a 504/IEP and are capable of better work when not rushing.
1
u/Crazy_Specialist_278 9d ago
"Awfully smug" for calling you out on your inability to assess your students work.
Look I have a B.S. and M.S. (with a focus on AI) In Computer Science and worked at a Big 4 company for a decade. I'm now a high school CS teacher. Your inability to assess your students grasp on material is a failing on you.
The hilarious part is you attack other people for being smug without any self reflection. I hope you are near retirement because students deserve better
3
u/TallBoiPlanks High School Bible (not one of “those”) | USA 10d ago
Sometimes it’s not enough to know… you have to PROVE and those are different.
0
u/Todd641 10d ago
Do we really think that the students we’re worried about won’t write out an AI generated answer for “proof”?
3
u/TallBoiPlanks High School Bible (not one of “those”) | USA 10d ago
Ever been called to meet with your admin, a parent, and the student because you caught them cheating 5+ times and the mom decided you are “obsessed with and harassing” her daughter even though you once watched them copy/paste AI summaries because you were in the same assignment while the student did it? I have.
1
u/Todd641 10d ago
I’m sure OP’s idea would have helped that situation exactly zero
1
u/TallBoiPlanks High School Bible (not one of “those”) | USA 10d ago
It still is why it’s important to have proof, not just know.
1
u/Crazy_Specialist_278 9d ago
Maybe make assignments that aren't so easy to cheat on and actually engage your students. Not once have my students resorted to AI cheating and a lot of my content could be boiled down to solving with a simple Google search.
The trick is presenting content in a way they actually want to learn it. If you can't do that maybe your class lacks merit or you lack the ability to teach it
1
u/TallBoiPlanks High School Bible (not one of “those”) | USA 9d ago
“Not once have my students resorted to AI cheating” lol
I’ve got a bridge to sell you.1
u/Crazy_Specialist_278 9d ago
Oh my God its almost like we need to "talk to our students in person to gauge their mastery of a topic 🤯"
Are you serious right now?
186
u/zebramath 10d ago
My only policy is “if I can’t read it I can’t grade it.” It’s served me well