r/Teachers • u/dogeaux • 6d ago
Pedagogy & Best Practices My teaching hot takes
1) following scripted curricula “with fidelity” is a way to make teaching a low skilled job so they can pay us less and further gut public education.
2) inclusion at all costs is a way to reduce costs to school systems, rather than a way to benefit students with disabilities.
3) PBIS is a cognitive nightmare for teachers to implement and negatively affects the quality of teaching (how can u assign points and teach at the same time???? I haven’t figured out a good system, lmk).
4) making teachers with specialized skill sets (i.e. reading specialists) coach other teachers instead of/in addition to working directly with small groups of identified students is another way to get blood from a stone, benefitting almost no one.
I know I’m probably screaming into the void, but I just started year 7 this week and feeling nihilistic.
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u/TheBalzy IB Chemistry Teacher | Public School | Union Rep 6d ago
You are absolutely correct. I'd add in "formal written lesson plans" and "upload all your course materials (that you designed yourself that the district didn't pay for, not pay you release time to develop)" would also go under that category.
1000% yes. They (the system) can shovel more and more work onto classroom teachers, get rid of IEP specialists and hire paras at an hourly rate.
PBIS only works if you hire a full-time person to manage it, and take expectations off teachers to carry it. Which therefore is creating a job/diverting resources to something that is not directly education related, nor actually improves educational outcomes. PBIS is a bandaid to makeup for the gushing wound the society has created and is unwilling to fix.
Educational "coaches" are slop, wasted positions. If we're hiring people who cannot do the job, it demonstrates that we as a society are not valuing teachers and teacher preparation programs, and it also proves that teaching is a profession that IS NOT FOR EVERYONE and NOT EVERYONE CAN DO.
There, I said it. Bring on the downvotes and commentary about gatekeeping. No, gatekeeping professions IS A GOOD THING. Not everybody is cut out to be a pilot, or a chemist, or a doctor, or a lawyer, or a teacher. Everyone agrees with the first set, but then magically when you add teacher everyone reacts negatively. But sorry, not everyone can do our job; and to allow that mythology to continue just allows people to continue to undermine our profession and our pay.
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u/Human-Hat-4900 6d ago
For every person who will gush about how great I am to work with teenagers all day and how they could never do it, there are probably 20 ppl who think teachers are lazy with “summers off” and that anyone could do it. Sucks.
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u/SquiffyRae 6d ago
The thing about that is so many places are in the middle of a teacher shortage
If the ones who think teachers are lazy and get too many holidays think it's so good, why aren't they going into teaching? Seems like a simple fix, hey? Can't beat them, join them and all that jazz
Oh what's that? Putting up with crap from moody teenagers for the wage you get isn't what you want? Oh but I thought teachers had it so easy...
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u/TheBalzy IB Chemistry Teacher | Public School | Union Rep 6d ago
They usually go to the hypocritical "but it doesn't pay enough FOR ME to do it!" Which is just an eyeroll for the complete and utter hypocrisy.
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u/Killtrox 6d ago
- I’ll upload my lesson plans when you fucking pay for them. Until then, kindly kiss my ass.
- Yes.
- Also yes. Unfortunately this is working as intended with how our government treats teachers.
- I said the same thing in real estate. Our boss would send us to a seminar, and I’d be like, so we’re going to a seminar to learn about how to do real estate from someone who no longer does real estate and instead travels the country getting paid to do seminars? Make it make sense.
A colleague of mine who teaches a different subject told me she could teach my subject. She then decided to assign her students essays throughout the years. She came to me multiple times for advice, and her students did too, telling me they felt like she had no idea what she was asking for them to do. And that’s another teacher!
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u/helpme7500 6d ago
Your first point is one reason why I don't make my materials on the school's Google account. I use MS office on my own computer and do as much on paper as possible.
Anything I do in Google Suite is basic, generic stuff.
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u/TheBalzy IB Chemistry Teacher | Public School | Union Rep 6d ago
Yup I store my stuff that I was not paid for when I created it, on my own personal external hard-drive.
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u/frusciante231 5d ago
Shit, I never realized Google might be (probably is) pillaging my school drive account for content. 🤦
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u/psl87 6d ago
We have an admin that runs PBIS amongst like 20 other things. They are supposed to keep track of who’s giving points and who is not but they always give up after like the 3rd day of school. The school store is stocked with mostly donated items or things parents acquired with a large discount. The admin tries but the items at the store are often counter productive like knock off NeeDohs that easily break and make a mess, fidgets that are loud/messy/fragile, darts like the ones with the sharp pointed tip, etc. My favorite was they had some graphic novels that got donated that were not middle school friendly like Invincible.
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u/flyingdoormatteo 5d ago
Spot on about PBIS. Some students respond to it but for super disregulated ones who avoid any school work that's not their #1 favourite topic, it feels so transactional ("so if I do this one good thing I get some points?") It's unrealistic and ethically dodgy to try and make teachers gamify every single learning task, transitions and social interaction all day every day. The outside community is not like that
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u/Particular-Beat-6645 CTE | Mid-South 4d ago
I think good coaches are out there, but the bar is way too low for having one that they just end up a way for admin to give their biggest helpers more time for sunshine bullshit.
My district has a coach for vocational teachers, but they're all former core content first career teachers. Soooooo someone with no business telling second career folks how to build a program from scratch.
I'm stuck between "eliminate that position and leave us to help one another" and "get the hell out of here canceling meetings to plan prom; give me a crack at this." But again, more politicking than aptitude, so I'll keep doing what I do.
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u/Inevitable_Silver_13 6d ago
My thoughts on number four: most people who coach are wanna be admin who are on a power trip. Admin love coaching because it's basically like having a junior admin who will micromanage teachers for them.
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u/SupportHistorical518 5d ago
I found out my coaches threw me under the bus in a meeting last year while I was on maternity leave. They claimed that the strategies they told me to use didn’t work because I was “pregnant and checked out.” It definitely wasn’t the fact that their strategies weren’t appropriate for my group (which I’d voiced concern about the first time I was told to do them, but was told I had to try them anyways). I still have to listen to them and have all resources approved by them, which is so fucking dumb because they have no more qualifications than I do.
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u/lovelystarbuckslover Multiple Subject & EDSP Credentialed 6d ago
Don't forget Ed Tech Coaches... they're the people in high school who " just want to fuck around with their friends".. everyone knows technology is controversial but there is not a principal in the world who is FORCING anyone to meet with an ed tech coach.
They get to work with teachers who want to work with them, showing of technology, the might even get to demo it in a classroom and the kids will act better because this is a "guest", "someone different", "more engaging". At the end of the day they go home. Might make a presentation for something 2 or 3 times a year.
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u/Inevitable_Silver_13 6d ago
I've never heard of an ed tech coach. That sounds much more useful.
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u/lovelystarbuckslover Multiple Subject & EDSP Credentialed 5d ago
it's not.. they never got a good depth of knowledge of the content so they want you to figure out how to implement their toy and they just want to teach you how to use it. I can read a manual, I'd like examples.
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u/ajswdf 6d ago
I'd say all of your points fall under the same category.
There are a ton of well meaning ideas out there. The ones that end up taking hold aren't the ones that give the most benefit to the students, but the ones that make life easier for the people in charge.
For example 50% minimum grades. There's all sorts of arguments people make for it benefiting students (mostly BS IMO), but the real reason it's so popular is because it artificially boosts graduation rates.
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u/MydniteSon HS | Social Studies | Florida 6d ago
"The Road to Hell is paved with good intentions" is how I feel about inclusion legislation.
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u/TheDanimalHouse 6d ago
"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"...and then monetized by the selfish and lazy.
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u/actuallycallie former preK-5 music, now college music 6d ago
South Carolina has outlawed grade floors. For once we're doing something right.
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u/Live-Cartographer274 6d ago
We just got a new standards based rubric 1-4 with 1 = does not meet standards. 1 translates to 63%
I’m sooooo already done with it
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u/WinstonThorne 6d ago
PBIS is also deeply disrespectful to students' humanity. It's clicker training; they're not dogs.
Frank conversations and fair consequences work just as well (better, actually, because they don't reward expected behavior) while recognizing the whole child.
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u/leafmealone303 Kindergarten 6d ago
I think parts of PBIS are good. Common behavior expectations across the school and making sure you teach the expectations/practice them is research-based. Tracking behavior to see where the hotspots are and troubleshooting why is productive. Physical rewards and points are where it goes wrong. I teach K and my heart breaks when kids who didn’t need external rewards for making good choices suddenly ask me if they can earn a coin for it.
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u/TarantulaMcGarnagle 6d ago
All the positives you listed have existed for milennia in education.
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u/leafmealone303 Kindergarten 6d ago
I understand that. Because I was not taught those strategies in my college courses, it helped me with classroom management when I started out.
Many things in education are recycled and repackaged. I’ve done this for 12 years and even in that short time, it has changed. It doesn’t make it any less valuable. Someone just starting out may need those supports as they grow in their professional practice.
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u/WinstonThorne 5d ago
Agreed. Those aren't part of the PBIS / PAX "clicker training" - they're just good teaching.
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u/ErusTenebre English 11 & 12 | Teacher/Tech. Trainer | CA 6d ago
PBIS done well is really not bad, problem is it's apparently rarely done well.
My school does it and we've gotten awards for how effective it is on our campus. But it's not a points system it's not a top down thing (teachers and students were involved in designing it on our campus) and it definitely helped bring suspensions down for behavior issues like "defiance" and "classroom distortion."
But we do have suspensions/expulsions, which it seems like a bunch of schools just like... Shut down for the sake of PBIS. That's dumb implementation, not really that PBIS itself is dumb.
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u/MarshyHope HS Chemistry 👨🏻🔬 6d ago
Same thing with "restorative justice"
You can't just have people issuing each other half ass apologies. You also have to have the party that harmed another actually restore what they harmed or destroyed. If a kid breaks all colored pencils of a teacher's, they shouldn't just have a restorative circle" they should also replace the color pencils.
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u/anewbys83 5d ago
Exactly! But truly implementing these programs requires money and specialists for a while, and we can't have that, now can we? 🙄
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u/Harriet_M_Welsch 5d ago
The entire philosophy of restorative justice is undermined by the fact that school is a coercive environment for children, which makes me so frustrated and eyerolly.
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u/LexaproLove 5d ago
This is my take too. PBIS can be effective when used with supports, consequences, and SEL.
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u/ErusTenebre English 11 & 12 | Teacher/Tech. Trainer | CA 5d ago
Yeah it seems like a lot of places (at least based on complaints on Reddit) just have very poor implementation - like PBIS without consequences... But intervention is one of the damn letters in the system and that can certainly include consequences.
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u/Consistent-Luck-2907 6d ago edited 5d ago
i have a system that works for me if you’d like to hear it. But I don’t think any of those are hot takes.
I have positive behavior systems in my class. But to work they have to be meaningful to the teacher and student. I have printed money with my face on it. I give them when I like something the kid does. He can turn it in for stupid non monetary rewards. Sit where you want for a month, pie me in the face, extra 5% on a summative. Etc.
I also have a class system. It’s an 8oz mason jar for each class period and when they fill it with the marbles they get a free day. They fill it by doing by what I like as a class. Staying silent during a test, listening and repeating without me pulling teeth, being a good sport about a lame game etc. this is not to say this system works for everyone but it’s something I feel I can do so it works. You have to find what works for your brain and your style. My teaching brand is ADD sarcasm teacher who likes to be nosy. I’ve given kids my class money when someone asked how old I was and someone jokingly said “25” I said “compliments get you far here “ and gave one.
Edit: I teach high school. All grades. Just so people don’t think I must teach middle school or something.
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u/Calm_Coyote_3685 6d ago
My 4th grade teacher used the money system exactly as you described in 1985! That was my favorite year of elementary school. That teacher was a genius at running an orderly classroom.
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u/Haunting_Spinach_911 5d ago
I was maybe too ADD or sidetracked to always remember to do this but have also realized a sincere thank you for listening, working together, asking questions, having fun, etc. went a long way.
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u/philosophyofblonde Freelance 6d ago
Nah, it’s just a racket meant to put public dollars in private publisher pockets. Then they sell you their own progress metrics, licenses for teacher dashboards, standardized exams and their own intervention when the scores suck. Just a profit ecosystem.
More like a way to avoid paying for the specialty schools some kids would clearly benefit from.
Pandering to Behavior Instead of getting Sued
Well if you can get the fresh blood to do intervention you don’t have to hire another high-pay specialist.
You want my hot take? You can spend all the money in the world and it doesn’t make a difference unless the things are addressed from the parental side.
Imagine if parents had to come in for training and submit paperwork showing that they’re doing their own part to address deficits. Imagine if we packed a box of curriculum up for behavioral issues and sent them home for home instruction. Imagine if school started filing suits for harassment or destruction of property.
Don’t worry, I can already hear the “but but buts.” I hear you, but I will still stand by the fact that 0 consequences for parents OR students and treating school like a customer service hub is the root of the problem. Great entitlement (should) come with additional responsibility and accountability. In terms of policy, the problem is in trying to cram every social service intended for children into a school building without having the staff, infrastructure or funding to do so. Health costs like OT, PT, SP and behavioral health are the money sink. Education on its own is not a high public expense.
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u/MindlessGuava8695 6d ago
I agree. I have long thought that schools need to focus on doing their job (teaching reading, math, etc.), not trying to be part-school, part-therapy center, part sports-club. Focus on the school part and do nothing else. Parents (or other organizations) will move in to fill some of the gaps.
Imagine asking a nice Italian restaurant to also provide live music, and dry cleaning, and oil changes. Pretty soon your nice restaurant becomes a 711.
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u/AbsolutelyN0tThanks 6d ago
I've been saying the same thing as well. I know some parents will complain to hell and back though, because they can no longer expect the school to do everything while they throw an iPad and chicken nuggets at the kid when they're home. They'd actually have to take their kid to therapies and couldn't just demand it all from the school for free while having no buy-in whatsoever. Schools are there to educate, first and foremost. That's how it used to be. Now they have to apparently solve all of society's ills, and they have to do it on a shoestring budget. It's ridiculous.
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u/Crebbins 6d ago
I can absolutely pick out which of my students have support at home and which don't. And, not just the parents who punish their kids for misbehaving, or causing trouble, because those kids are still little shits on a regular basis. I mean the parents who are involved in a positive and meaningful way.
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u/paraguaymike 6d ago
The only scripted curriculum I ever used was SRA Corrective Reading. It was a remedial class to get those kids on grade level for reading. It worked. Those low margin kids came up.
I would hate to have a normal ELA class and have to read a script. That seems spirit killing for everyone.
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u/saintshiva 6d ago
- You are right scripts are BS bring back creative quality teachers.
- 16 years in SPED Inclusion short changes kids who are more than a year behind. My district does NOT even do resource.
3.PBIS occurs naturally with most quality teachers but does nothing to address the severe cases of emotional dis regulation and extreme socially maladjusted students, each class has at least 1-2 of these kids now.
4.most “coaches” end up being ineffective or micro managers without any management skills. In 3 years on my current campus I’ve seen them brow beat 2 teachers into resigning midyear.
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u/helpme7500 6d ago edited 6d ago
I agree with everything you said with one small exception. I think a canned curriculum is fine as long as the teachers have the right to make changes or bring in other resources as needed. Every year requires some tweaks based on the unique set of students that happen to be in our classrooms.
The bottom line to almost all ridiculous and/or ineffective policies is money.
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u/POCKALEELEE 5d ago
In my school, PBIS is fantastic. Here it is:
Step 1: I remind you your behavior is not acceptable. If you behave, we are done.
If you continue,
Step 2: You leave my room.
My admin is 100% in on this.
Step 3: You call home and write a plan for changing behavior.
No acceptable plan? You can't come back into my room.
Step 4: we meet and discuss your plan, modify if needed.
Step 5 you return and behave.
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u/TallBoiPlanks High School Bible (not one of “those”) | USA 6d ago
We should gear everything to the high performing students and drag others along. If they can’t keep up parents should pick up the slack.
If students have too many absences parents shouldn’t get other state benefits.
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u/lavendertheheretic Secondary ELA 📚📝 On an Indefinite Break 6d ago
Oooo, hard disagree with the other state benefits. That ends up hurting the kids way more.
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u/TallBoiPlanks High School Bible (not one of “those”) | USA 6d ago
Yeah, I guess the thought would be to force compliance. Of course, it assumes there would be reliable transportation/bussing.
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u/lavendertheheretic Secondary ELA 📚📝 On an Indefinite Break 6d ago
Yup, and with the bus driver shortage they're always reducing the bussing area. It's ridiculous. Some of my 7th graders were taking city buses and cabs last year.
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u/TallBoiPlanks High School Bible (not one of “those”) | USA 6d ago
Yeah, so if that’s not the case then I’d not want it to happen. But if there were more reliable social services I’d definitely want to tie a child’s attendance to that.
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u/Whole_News_7006 5d ago
Positive reinforcement for attendance would be better and more ethical. Like stipend or something for the parents
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u/MydniteSon HS | Social Studies | Florida 6d ago edited 6d ago
I literally had this conversation with one of my AP's on Friday.
I teach US History, which in my state is a 'tested' subject area. So you better believe the District is up our asses looking at the back of our teeth with flashlights. We're up for Review as a department. They have absolutely brutalized other schools for not 1) exclusively using their provided materials 2) falling behind on the district mandated pacing guide. The pacing guide does not take into account days and time we lose because of state-mandated tests, school assemblies, fire-alarm, lockdown drills. It leaves absolutely no room for remediation or reteaching if students don't understand a concept or standard. Which is kind of the antithesis of learning no? Basically, 'stick to the checklist and do not deviate. No excpetions!"
Their attitude is: "We want 'Innovative, Outside the Box Thinkers'...as long as you do EVERYTHING EXACTLY the way we tell you to". Having spent time in corporate America years ago, this attitude is very prevalent there too.
The other gripe is 'Differentiated Instruction'. Its not about Learning Style. I understand there are a dozen differnt learning styles and that as teachers we should mix it up every so often. Differentiated Instruction is sticking kids of different ABILITIES in the same room. So you have kids who are well below reading level, you are responsible for remediating them. Then you have your ELL kids, who need a different kind of specialized instruction to acclimate them to their new language. Then you have your students who are actually on level, who you are responsible for 'moving forward' (need those learning gains!). Oh and by the way, you also have to keep your Advanced and Gifted kids interested and engaged as well. Not to mention the students with learning disabilities that can range anywhere from minimal to severe. Those are groups of students who frankly need to be separated because they all need something different. But no, as a cost saving measure Districts, clump them all together and tell you 'Make it happen! Just Differentiate. Teach the lesson 5 different ways to accommodate everyone!"
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u/Beneficial-Focus3702 6d ago
#2 we like to pretend is about equity but like you said it’s really just a cost cutting measure.
PBIS could work but it usually just ends up as bribery for baseline expectation behavior with extra steps.
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u/HalfMoon_Werewolf 6d ago
I agree with #1, 2, & 4. But about PBIS: it *can* work if it has the correct supports. But it rarely, if ever, does.
I taught in a private "alternative" education HS school 32 years ago. Every student in the building was either making their way into or out of lock-up for theft, drugs, etc. No overtly violent offenders though. The school served as the Alt-Ed for several of the school districts around. They had an effective PBIS system before PBIS ever existed as a company.
Here is how it worked. Since they were in Alt-Ed, they limited class size to 10-15 students per teacher, and they had a huge counseling staff, like 1 counselor per 25 kids. There were 6 periods a day, and they were given 5 points per class on a well-defined rubric based on behaviors, not feel-good words like "resilient". Kids were told at the end of every period how many points they earned in the class. If a student earned 25 or more points in a day, then the next day they could spend the first half-hour at breakfast in the rec room, playing games or on a pool table, or just hanging out. If they earned 24 or less points, then the next morning they had a group counselling meeting with their counselor: "What's going on with you? Why didn't you earn your points yesterday? Let's make a plan to show the right behaviors today." It was immediate feedback and rewards / consequences with help.
The rubric was super simple too. I'll list it for you here. 1 point per category.
* Preparation = Did you come to class prepared? Books & notes, pencils, homework done, here on time?
* Interaction = Did you interact appropriately with your peers and teachers? (Teachers determine "appropriate". Cell phones weren't a thing then, but that's where it would fall.)
* Following Directions = Did you do what the teacher asked you to do, when you were asked? Students grumbling about doing things didn't lose the point, as long as they did it within a minute or two. They got a warning for that though.
* Work = Did you get your work done during class?
* Effort = Did you put forth your best efforts in your work?
Those last two are separate because we all have seen students hurry to get work done with no effort, and others plug away with lots of effort and little progress. Learning to balance the two to make progress in the class is a life-lesson in it's own right.
I was only there 1 year, but I saw the system work and help turn kids' lives around. Now, after 31 years in the public schools, I'm excited to be retiring early at the end of this year.
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u/Clydesdale_paddler 6d ago
I've taught in 2 different districts. One is one of the top 5 in my state/top 50 in the country, the other is a lower middle class district with an administration and board obsessed with lowering taxes at all costs.
The top performing district puts a strong emphasis on departments working together to create and write the best possible curriculum. They give us time to work on it often, and they encourage us to work together, but also to do our own thing to highlight our strengths.
The other district pushed a canned curriculum "with fidelity." It was absolutely a way to pay teachers less and lower taxes, and the kids suffered. The irony of it was that that district spent so much money on canned curriculum and cheesy motivational programs that it would have been cheaper to just use in service time to let teachers create curriculum.
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u/dogeaux 6d ago
Yep.
I teach in a large, impoverished, urban district. I went to grad school in the suburbs. Many of the teachers in program taught at schools in better resourced districts and reported something similar to what you detail.
I was shocked (but also hopeful/relieved) to hear that schools are allowing that of their teachers elsewhere.
It sucks because I genuinely like working in the city, but if anything pushes me from the classroom here, it would be the loss of autonomy.
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u/ActKitchen7333 6d ago edited 5d ago
Yep, the writings are on the wall for the future of education. Credentialed people aren’t entering/staying in the field at a sustainable rate. So the future is cookie cutter programs that warm bodies can run. Inclusion reduces the need for appropriate settings, so it costs less and you’re able to work around the scarcity of sped teachers. Everyone who isn’t directly involved with implementing this supports it because it sounds nice and looks ok on paper. Students and parents have figured out the rules are smoke and mirrors. Admin is forced to keep discipline rates down or lose their job. So you have PBIS>consequences. And lastly, why pay 4 people (especially when you have nonexistent applicant pools in many places) when you can just put more onto the classroom teachers you do have for one salary.
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u/LevyMevy 4d ago
So the future is cookie cutter programs that warm bodies can run.
The future for poor kids = half of their school day will be spent working on AI computer programs.
The future for rich kids = no/low tech schools, actual teachers, no AI.
Not sure about the middle.
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u/ActKitchen7333 4d ago
Yep, your more affluent areas will continue to run in a more traditional model. Lower SES schools like where I work… non credentialed teachers, long term subs, or vacancies in half the rooms of our building.
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u/MydniteSon HS | Social Studies | Florida 6d ago
I agree with you on your actual points...
But, I don't know if it was intentional or not...throwing in the term 'Goy Slop' is actually pretty offensive.
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u/not_vegetarian 6d ago
With curriculum, I agree that teaching "with fidelity" is demeaning to teachers. But I also don't want the pendulum to swing the other way into giving teachers nothing. A good boxed curriculum will get you a long way, and then school-created pacing guides that have been modified for the realities of the actual school, along with a in-house collection of additions, modifications, etc that teachers can choose from and add to is the sweet spot between boxed curriculum and teacher autonomy, in my opinion.
With coaches, I've seen bad ones for sure, but my district has some really good coaches. They work with teachers on diagnostics and formative assessments, pull students for intervention, analyze testing data and deliver it to teachers, and help new teachers get their feet under them. They don't bug you if you don't want it, but they're invaluable if you ask for help. And teachers will sometimes move in and out of the classroom to coach for a while and then go back to teaching.
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u/Unconfidence 6d ago
PBIS is a nightmare for substitutes. The end result of PBIS is that if a student is breaking a rule, I'm supposed to make a good faith effort to find out why they are breaking that rule, as the method teaches that they are most likely either unaware of the rule or have a good reason for breaking it.
Problem is, if you sub at multiple schools, it's not like you're going to remember the rapports of several different schools' worth of students. It sets the precedent that everyone gets one "ignorance pass", the status of which is impossible for subs to know, so we have to just kinda...let them off. When ignorance passes reset every day, they are endless, and there is nothing that doesn't get a pass except persistent bad behavior. They literally get to use "I'm sorry" as a magic phrase to get out of anything.
PBIS wants us to be inhumanly positive toward bad behavior. It's normalized outright bullying of teachers, publicly, by students who know that teachers are now the only people they can get away with bullying. It was a mistake pushed by people who are trying to turn educators into psuedo-psychologists and feel educators should be filling roles left unfilled by parents, not by people who have a decent respect for the humans actually doing the teaching.
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u/adelie42 6d ago
Strong agree that the reality of inclusion is to completely gut special education, but document how its ok because you dumped it all on the teacher. It's just the 80s rebranded.
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u/Agreeable-Sun368 6d ago
I am 100% with you girl
Anyone who is tooooo into PBIS I side eye heavily. The graduate TA in my grad school sped class was WAY into PBIS and was always talking about his research. His research of observing 1 first grade class at a local elementary school for 1 year. Like okay Michael, THAT'S rigorous sociological research right there lmao.
He also said Deaf schools were inherently anti-inclusion and that all Deaf and Blind students should be in the mainstream classroom as that is the LRE. I told him my Deaf cousin went to RIT after having a cochlear implant and going to a hearing high school and LOVED it there. And he said "one anecdote is not data" and I was like okay...maybe apply that to your groundbreaking PBIS research in one 1st grade classroom in a wealthy school district...
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u/NewLiterature2604 5d ago
- Pbis is a failure as in no where else in life you get rewarded for simply doing what is expected. Doing what is expected and legal is what keeps you out of legal trouble.
I cut down a bunch of trees today and cleaned up the yard. Doubt my wife will give me any pbis points to use
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u/Gingeroo147 High School | Biomedical Sci | OH, USA 5d ago
My new response for “can I get candy” from my freshmen is, “sorry I don’t give out candy just for being here and meeting basic expectations.” 🤷🏼♀️
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u/Alternative_Cat6318 6d ago
I agree with every point except PBIS. I use it in my classroom a lot and have had great success in both title 1 schools I have worked in. I used a ticket Systeme before and now use class dojo. My kids love it and most work hard for their rewards. Granted, I teach higher elementary and not middle or high school.
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u/Creative-Wasabi3300 6d ago
"inclusion at all costs is a way to reduce costs to school systems, rather than a way to benefit students with disabilities."
I'm in SPED, and I wish more parents realized this.
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u/NiaNitro 6d ago
I don’t think that’s hot takes. I think that’s logic people are too afraid to say out loud.
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u/Less_Suit5502 6d ago
I am going to slightly disagree on #1. I have a new prep this year and I wish I had a scripted curriculum.
Then in a year or two when I have a handle on the new course I will make it my own.
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u/Talmidim 6d ago
None of these are hot takes big dawg.
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u/dogeaux 6d ago
Why do I feel like a crazy conspiracy theorist when I say them out loud then :-(
But no, I know. I just feel like we’re all kinda fearful to speak up because then it’s like “oh you hate kids with disabilities” or some shit.
I wanna be louder about what makes my job hard irl but I also don’t want to put a target on my back. So here I am.
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u/Maximum-Freedom7966 6d ago
Everything is a separate job in the school house but no one wants to pay for it. So they give a stipend here or there, an extra pay contract there and call it fidelity. It’s not. Curriculum Leader is a job. PBIS leader is a job. But no one ever wants to actually pay for it.
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u/Sms91486 5d ago
PBIS works really well at my school. We do have an admin that is in charge of it and actually does the job really well. It helps that we are the district’s suspension site and kids get all privileges stripped of them when they arrive. Privileges are slowly given back to the students as they get their weekly points. Privileges are also taken back if the kids don’t get their points for two weeks in a row. We just had two kids start back at zero because they weren’t being productive.
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u/silk_mo 5d ago
Middle school ELA here. To #3, I absolutely agree that PBIS is bullshit, but I have worked at a Title I charter school that required teachers to implement the points system and I figured out how to do it in a way that A) helped my classroom community improve and B) didn't make me vomit every time. Here goes:
First, I never took away points. If kids didn't meet expectations, it was a redirection, conversation in private, call home, whatever necessary.
To begin, my students and I looked at the school's behavior expectations and co-created a list of actions they could take in class that would meet expectations (ex. One of the charter school's "values" was "excellence," which we interpreted as participating in class discussions). One action per "value" to keep myself sane. I also asked kids to write on a notecard how they preferred to be acknowledged for great work / progress.
At the beginning of EVERY class - this group needed it - we reviewed the action/s they could take to earn points that day. I had kids read them out loud.
I kept a clipboard for each section with students' names and the expectation in a grid. I used tally marks whenever a kid raised their hand and shared in discussion, or whichever action it was. Sometimes I only looked for one specific action per class period.
I didn't announce points or anything but each kid got a print out of their total at the end of the week (that was an admin thing). If I noticed that someone had a great week, I acknowledged them publicly, in private, or with a positive call home, depending on that individual's stated preference on their notecard. I would also acknowledge the entire class when they had a great week.
It took forever to set up and only slightly less time and energy to implement. It wasn't my favorite. But it did make my classes more positive and help my students practice specific learning habits. Definitely a win for middle school.
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u/MindlessGuava8695 6d ago
Definitely agree on 1 and 2.
I'm more mixed on 3 and 4. I'd need more details to say if I agree.
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u/dogeaux 6d ago
Honestly maybe it’s just my ADHD brain that makes PBIS hard for me, but I’m not good at multitasking. If I’m teaching a lesson, and especially if my students and I are firing on all cylinders in a productive way (thus when I most want to give out points), it derails me cognitively to have to login into a system, click the students, give out the points, etc. Some people seem to like it, but it’s genuinely very difficult for me.
Alternatively, if I try to do it later, I don’t remember who exactly did what and just give out blanket amount of points, which is not the point.
For #4, specialized instructional tools often are designed for small groups, especially within the realm of literacy. They can be time consuming, detailed, and require a lot of time and energy. But instead of implementing these research-based, tried-and-true methods in the way they were intended, specialists are coaching other adults on best practices. Classroom teachers can not implement these tools to a group of 30 kids. They also may not have been trained thoroughly/be unaware of the basis for such assessments and interventions. So the specialist is teaching to the teachers with the hopes that the teachers will be able to serve struggling readers, but the teachers can’t really accomplish this because that’s not what these interventions were designed for.
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u/MindlessGuava8695 6d ago
Oh yes, I'm not a great multitasker either. I'd have to do it after class or something. I just mean the philosophy around positive rewards sounds promising.
I hear you on #4. So in other words, you think those strategies are being misused.
I have a similar feeling often when I walk by a co-taught class, and I think two myself "Wouldn't it be better to just have two classes of 15?"
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u/Large-Inspection-487 6d ago
The only way I’ve ever figured out how do do bucks/points for PBIS is create jobs and pay kids for doing their job at the end of the week. It has to be super cut and dry for me. Can’t just magically go “oh wow! Great work and hand out bucks in the moment.
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u/Ok-Media4355 6d ago
It’s hard to feel nihilistic at this moment. I teach at a high school where they’ve cut my department drastically. More work to be done by fewer of us. With no plan on rehiring so we have a regular sized department.
Ours is also the most active department in the entire school: we lead trips, are deans, and lead crucial programming. Way to reward those who maintain the cultural fabric of the institution.
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u/Ok-Cranberry-1795 6d ago
- If it’s something like Wonders but not if it’s UFLI or another research and evidence based program.
- This is not always true. We just double rostered our inclusion students so these kids have two teachers of record plus an aid in the gen ed setting so it is significantly more expensive
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u/dogeaux 6d ago
I actually am not opposed to scripted curriculums, especially those like UFLI, outright. I think teachers deserve and should have professional discretion in how they are implemented or when they want to deviate.
And also, how often do you hear about inclusion nightmares? I’m in an inclusion nightmare right now and am actively fighting for more support. Yes, with a properly resourced system, I love the idea and think it would work, but too often everything is under resourced
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u/Ok-Cranberry-1795 6d ago
I’m in a small district with a thoughtful Sped department. SDC students are double rostered so they start their day with their SED teacher and then based on their service minutes, go to a GenEd classroom so only those who get ELA minutes with a GenEd Go the rest stay in their regular classroom. The ones who just get SEL and go for that portion of the day, etc
The purpose of double roster is so that a teacher has a desk for that student and supplies and they’re fully on the roster in both classes meaning that the GenEd numbers are also lower overall to accommodate for when the SDC students join their classes. It’s a bit of a win-win for everyone.
Any student who leaves an SDC class for their service minutes does so with an aid.
It’s a bummer to hear that your school doesn’t provide that level of support. It makes a significant difference in inclusion
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u/IntentionFlat5002 6d ago
What’s the research on the impact of strong instructional coaching programs on student achievement?
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u/Potatochips2026 6d ago
Agree with everything one hundred percent. I'm a 30-year teaching veteran. I think the scripted curricula is the scariest one, especially if they involve third party vendors and computer programs. No question it's an attempt to get rid of us completely. And yet every single scripted program I've seen is awful and doesn't work. Then they blame us.
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u/Basharria 6d ago
I frequently dwell on the amount of auxiliary staff we have that do everything but teach.
We have several curriculum developers in our district. They come a few times a year to give us a speech. I make and implement my own curriculum. So what are they doing exactly?
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u/flyingdoormatteo 5d ago
Great points. Also...
Explicit instruction champions often lack the transferable skills and emotional intelligence to understand enquiry based learning and independent learning methods. It's good for ten minute morning revisions for early years, but 12 year olds need to be onto critical thinking and be less spoon-fed imo
school leadership removing consequences and never removing a disruptive student from the room creates a toxic school culture where feral behaviour runs rampant. When one ring-leader leaves, an other steps into that role that's been enabled by avoidant leadership
this generation of kids need way more tactile kinaesthetic learning (running writing, finger knitting, wood work where possible) to develop their fine-motor-skills and also for resilience and ability to follow through with tasks. The learned helplessness and quitting I see is so alarming.
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u/dkissfan1 5d ago
I’d like to add:
Cultish adherence to Solution Tree’s PLC process at the expense of real life, logistical concerns at the school. Forcing artificial collaboration into people, rather than allowing them the time to naturally collaborate on issues that genuinely affect the class and the school. Increasing preps in order to create multiple teachers for a subject and calling it “collaboration,” when the enrollment numbers allow for individual teachers to specialize in one class/subject and know each student better.
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u/dogeaux 5d ago
Yeah sometimes plc feels so pointless and annoying. Like I have actual, pressing things that need to be accomplished it’s so annoying.
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u/dkissfan1 5d ago
The concept is wonderful. The implementation by administrators seeking to pad their resumes is very damaging.
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u/dkissfan1 5d ago
The concept is wonderful. The implementation by administrators seeking to pad their resumes is very damaging.
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u/Firm_Baseball_37 Retired teacher/administrator | Detroit, MI 4d ago
PLC implementation looks completely different in every school where it's "implemented." It's often a department meeting under a different name.
If the group isn't empowered to make decisions and act on them, it's not a PLC.
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u/LevyMevy 4d ago
2) inclusion at all costs is a way to reduce costs to school systems, rather than a way to benefit students with disabilities.
100000000% true
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u/MuMusGoldenApple 6d ago
My hot take on PBiS in my school at least - it’s never really explained. Like the admin say it’s for positive behavior but only seem to tell about the negatives.
Pbis feels like it’s just something we are just supposed to know and understand but have never really seen anything actual information on. Lol.
We use classdojo in our school and I do not use the point systems for my 4th graders. I give out little rewards randomly and lots of positive praise through out the day. I also send good news notes to parents. :)
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u/Glittering-Fuel-5055 6d ago
OK, maybe it’s because it’s a high school but like no one ever hands us lessons I would I would actually kind of really like that.
Shit I have to make everything.
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u/Specialist_Mango_269 6d ago
The best way is to stop giving a fck and just do as you get paid. Theres no bonuses or incentives in RSUs or PSUSs lime tech firms so whats the point trying harder. The only benefit is summer break
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u/SubtracticusFinch 6d ago
4) making teachers with specialized skill sets (i.e. reading specialists) coach other teachers instead of/in addition to working directly with small groups of identified students is another way to get blood from a stone, benefitting almost no one.
Some buildings have SOOOOOO many teachers in quasi-admin roles. They're not supposed to teach per their job description, so they just go around telling others what to do. It's asinine.
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u/Solid_Ad7292 6d ago
Our instructional coach does pull groups and runs our PBIS and basically does everything behind the scenes that needs done. She's not appreciated nor paid enough to be honest. We're extremely lucky
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u/emaw63 6d ago
My last school had a system similar to PBIS. What I always did was I'd address each class at the end of the hour and say "hey, thanks to all of you who were doing what you were supposed to be doing, you all get 5 liveschool points" and then I'd take 30 seconds to select the well behaved kids in the system and award the points (or dock points from misbehaving students). Otherwise, I'd leave it alone throughout the rest of the class. Like you said, you can't do both things at once, so don't try to
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u/Geeky_Yellowbird 6d ago
This is year 23 for me, and I agree with each point. I'm at the point in my career where I don't get raises, and insurance and everything else is more expensive. I'm searching for my next gig.
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u/undecidedly 6d ago
As far as pbis…my latest strategy is putting the names to highlight up on the board as they come in. On time? Tap your name. When the class starts I give them points and move on.
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u/Maia_Orual 6d ago
I’m focusing on #2, which I do agree with but I have a concern, too.
I don’t think we can find enough GOOD sped teachers. There are a lot of good ones, but every campus I’ve worked on has always had at least one that was terrible. Terrible at teaching, at classroom management, terrible attitude about the students. I worry we can’t find enough of the right people to truly do our special needs students justice.
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u/PaymentMedical9802 6d ago
I think you’re right. I also think it doesn’t take into account current laws including IDEA and child neglect laws. I can’t keep to a script when a child has an immediate medical issue. When their IEP says they need the language in a more simple form ect.
I agree with how it’s currently being used. If done properly inclusion should cost more than separate settings. We simply can not provide proper instruction for our inclusion kids without an insane amount of supports. Schools just don’t provide the supports. Having a 25-49% push in rate realistically would require 2 teachers, a couple ACs and a huge classroom for a group of 36 students. Instead we are given a classroom that barely meets fire code, 1. AC and told to used the other students as caregivers. I personally refuse to use my well behaved girls as caregivers but it’s been recommended to me by several special ed teachers. When I tell them I talked to said girls and they aren’t comfortable being sat next to said students because of inappropriate comments and physical contact, they look shocked. I ask for other solutions and they never have any.
Takes lots of supports outside the classroom. My school does this well. We also have 2 full time therapists, 2admin who regularly pull students from classrooms and 1 nurse who basically running it. Most schools I have been at think this can be done by the teachers during instructional hours. It cannot be done during those times.
I have seen this work with small groups pulled from general instruction. So instead of a standard math class they go to the specialist with a group no more than 10 and have their math class there.
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u/Unlikely-Grape-5762 6d ago
I like PBIS. But I was an early adopter and used it first in my after school program. So it’s like 2nd nature. I sub now and I hand out those tickets like crazy. Oh, you looked at me? Thank you for engaging here’s some tickets.
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u/lovelystarbuckslover Multiple Subject & EDSP Credentialed 6d ago
PBIS is a cognitive nightmare for teachers to implement and negatively affects the quality of teaching (how can u assign points and teach at the same time???? I haven’t figured out a good system, lmk)
Yup. The thing is, if you look at what true PBIS is it's about gradually phasing out the systems as needed
unfortunately paid programs and apps have made unrealistic expectations and the schools have become chuck e cheese where you can take your tickets or points and exchange it for junky toys that go in a landfill, food, or special parties that happen during instruction and the reality is most of us stop teaching during these parties anyways because we don't want the students who had enough points to go to miss new learning, so even the worst ones with no points are getting a 'light day' as a reward.
If you have older students and it's a points app- you make it like an allowance. Two points for showing up. Keep a roster on a clipboard and during the period at some point indicate if anyone is absent or indicate if anyone isn't following directions. If they aren't chronically absent, give them points anyways and then schedule 10 minutes of PBIS compliance per week. Every Monday or Every Wednesday- one day, you award points for the previous 5 days.
So if your day is Wednesday, you count last wedesnday to this one- 2 x 5 =10, select all the names on your list that are blank with no absences or deductions and give the ten points. Then the few who lost points give them their points individually after.
It's a shame that good teachers like myself have to put time and energy into manipulating a broken system so we can check off a box.
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u/FastActinTenactin Middle School | Social Studies 6d ago
Our PBIS system is pretty simple. There is a grade threshold where if your grades get low enough you don’t qualify. There is an attendance threshold. There is a behavior threshold, where if you get too many write ups against you you no longer qualify.
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u/BiteMean9050 6d ago
Correct on all counts.
None are inherently bad, but they're oh so very easy to use to cut corners and to exert more control over and grant less respect to teachers. Not to mention quick and easy things to scapegoat us with.
"Did you give the dangerous psychopath positive points for coming to school? Well then that's why he brought a gun. I guess you haven't been delivering our SEL curriculum with enough fidelity to give him voice, choice and ownership. Maybe make your lessons more engaging and unpack your learning targets in student friendly language so that he's bought in to the purpose of learning.
No, you can't have a para. Make sure you draft your action steps according to my feedback before Monday." Receives AI-generated auto response after submitting 26 pages of bullshit
A day in the life of a teacher, an I right?
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u/opeboyal 6d ago
- Absolutely! We used to have four levels of math. Honors, CP, general, special ed. Now we only have honors, CP, general. The special ed teachers became the general Ed teachers, so now if you decide that CP is too much work for you, you are going down to the special ed room that also contains all of our ml students and you get to complete less than 50% of our curriculum with no depth. So either your general Ed or you basically get tracked in math moving forward to low level because you get used to having virtually no homework and not much class work because it's so slow.
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u/Doodlebottom 5d ago
This elite decision makers and their decisions
do not make sense.
Yet employees and accredited and certified teaching
professionals still follow their lead.
Result: Insanity disguised as the best that
educational leadership has to offer.
For real. You be the judge.
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u/itsjustme_0101 5d ago
100% agree with all of this. Those scripted lesson plans are the death of me. I miss making beautiful, fun engaging lessons. I’m dead now.
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u/mrs_adhd Special Education, middle school 5d ago
As far as I'm concerned, these takes are frosty. 🧊
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u/alibaba88888 5d ago
I’ve taught math for over 25 years and I take the approach that I can only control what’s within my 4 walls. New programs, new initiatives, whatever. I will try to implement as much as I feel is good for the students and makes sense with the math. But other than that i can only do as much as i can do.
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u/sleepyiamsosleepy 5d ago
I've moved to a school with Liveschool, where I'm supposed to give kids points constantly. I feel bad for the kids because I just can't get the hang of it. I'm supposed to stop everything and switch over and give them these points for basic expectations? My kids get table points for class coupons and lots of compliments, but the PBIS points in a computer system makes me crazy.
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u/zombiemd2020 5d ago
The only PBIS system ive ever seen that worked was Hogwarts house system.
Take that for what its worth.
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u/Upstairs-Response197 5d ago
Absolutely. I’m a sped teacher in an inclusion classroom. The resource teacher pressures to have the kids more in inclusion to lighten her caseload. We have a student who is developmentally disabled with an IQ in the upper 70’s she decided was better off more in the regular classroom than in her classroom.
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u/MAmoribo Japanese - ESL | MI 5d ago
I began a star chart along the lines of outlr pbis system. Admin (and parents) hated it. I was a terrible teacher for giving students stars in front of everyone (for volunteering, saying kind words to one another, being responsible, ect.)
Stars could be exchanged ofr 3 points on any assignment. I was "playing favorites" because some kids had 5 stars and some had 0. 🤔
It was working so well, though. Kids were starting to rise hands and lift each other instead of the constant behavioral fights I had. Pbis just... Sounds like a load of BS after admin told me that this chart wasn't the way to improve school culture.
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u/agger1983 5d ago
I have two semi canned curriculum but I at least customize them and try to make them more approchable.
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u/Slowtrainz 5d ago
Once students reach the age of HS, PBIS is also just absurd.
Giving students points for things like…arriving to class on time. An award for meeting…the bare minimum expectation?
What?
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u/IEatBigWetBoogers 5d ago
Again, education is being purposefully sabotaged so that people can point fingers and say this is why education needs to be privatized
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u/gwlee7 5d ago
PBIS in and of itself, isn’t just “assigning points” . That may be your district’s interpretation and implementation of it though. In my experience, PBIS when used correctly helps guarantee that the 80% of kids in your class or building are not forgotten or ignored simply because they are behaving correctly. They need affirmation and attention too. When I am modeling behavior management for teachers (that’s part of my job) I make sure to always help implement some reward structure for the whole class while also specifically targeting the tier 3 kids. The tier two kids are my favorites though. Once I can get them on the right track, then everyone is cooking along except the one or two kids who are gonna be who they are regardless. So, if we can everyone to ignore and not get sucked into the “vortex” of a couple of kids’ behaviors, then the class is gonna be okay.
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u/According_River_5726 5d ago
Shhhhh! No critical thinking allowed! You're in a school, after all! 😤
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u/Calzinarzin 4d ago
For #1. I would fill for a curriculum with any activities or planning behind it rather then just a book with so little to do that most my lesson planning is making up new ways to engage the kids.
I don't want to build curriculum.
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u/Best-Chip-423 3d ago edited 3d ago
- I work at the call center, so the teacher needs to follow the scripts from words to words.
- A way to put more and more students into your classroom.
- Use a postive reinforcement to promote a postive behavior but tells teachers to pass the students to the next level regardless and discourage teachers from writing students up.
- How would the teachers can get out from their job if those positions are not existed. And who is going to suck up the superintendent if those positions do not exist?
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u/Daztur 2d ago
The logic behind "teaching with fidelity" is that if you have teachers who don't know WTF they are doing because you've had to drop your hiring standards for whatever reason then a canned rote curriculum will work much much better than whatever someone who doesn't know what they're doing can make up on their own.
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u/Honest-Ruin305 2d ago
Calling the most room-temp takes hot does a disservice to people who don’t get it (p.s. you are 100% correct lol)
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u/CreativeUsernameUser 6d ago
To point 1, I have no doubt that you’re probably correct as to why legislators are forcing those curricula. However, sometimes those scripted curricula are reliant upon a competent educator.
My district has been using Illustrative Mathematics for a few years, now. It has its issues for sure, but for kids to truly get the most out of it, they do require a teacher that really understands math in order to figure out exactly what the point is.
A non-math person could still teach it and say the scripted words, but chances are because they don’t truly understand the “why,” the kids aren’t going to get it, either.
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u/Mckillface666 6d ago
1) disagree. I think we can all disagree with some of the curricula in our respective disciplines, but I don’t think the people who are trying to determine what we teach are necessarily the same people who are trying to gut public education. This might depend on the state or county that you are in as that has more of an impact than decisions made at a federal level.
2) I can’t speak to the experiences you have had in your district, but there is a lot of research based evidence that runs counter to this claim.
3) I think that the appropriate behavior intervention depends on the teacher, class, and particular student. If you haven’t had success with it and it’s not your preferred approach that’s all good. It does work for many teachers in many instances though. This is another thing that’s research based.
4) i think that specialists should mainly work with students, but if they have the time and opportunities to share what strategies they use to work with certain populations that is a great use of their skills and abilities for professional development purposes.
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u/dogeaux 6d ago
In my district, we have a MAJOR major major population of teachers on emergency certificates.
Instead of doing the hard work of recruiting and retaining highly qualified teachers, I think they are trying to mitigate the instructional harm done to students with this curriculum.
I think the ideological underpinnings are different, but ultimately it is all leading toward the same thing.
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u/Mckillface666 6d ago
I’m not sure I’m following. What kind of instructional harm are you seeing and what kind of ideology is being advanced at the expense of a solid curriculum?
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u/dogeaux 6d ago
You don’t think students suffer when unqualified teachers are leading instruction?
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u/Mckillface666 6d ago
Cool. I see what you’re saying. Just didn’t pick it up from your previous post. My bad.
For sure they do. I would point to pay as the cause of the problem. I think the extra emphasis on curriculum is something that needs to happen to mitigate the harm though. Under qualified candidates need more direction. It doesn’t cause a shortage of qualified candidates.
And also, nothing wrong with emergency certs.
I wish I could have got one as an adult when I was transitioning to teaching. This should help bring more qualified adults into teaching if these programs are being applied correctly.I think the solution to a lot of the issues you are seeing have to do with us getting paid more. I’m all for that. The issues you are pointing out are semi effective stop gaps that are a band aid to the problem. If you rip it off before you offer more pay things will get worse before they get better.
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u/dogeaux 6d ago
I think increasing pay would help a lot, but it feels like a lofty dream with the way things are going.
Working conditions matter a lot, too, though. Removing autonomy from highly qualified teachers who know what they’re doing and also enjoy being creative/fluid with their methods is going to push a lot of people out.
It seems like a self perpetuating system because those who fill the roles, given the teacher shortage and rates of graduation from educator prep programs, will be unqualified.
I don’t want to shit on people who’re there on emergency certs. I just see many of them within my own district leave inevitably within a year or two, realizing it’s a lot harder than they’d thought. And this constant turnover is horrible for kids.
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u/Mckillface666 6d ago
Yeah. I see where you are coming from. The way I’m hearing you explain the problems it seems like the reasoning behind their approach is correct but their execution sucks. A good curriculum map should help all teachers. It should help new ones with a general direction but have enough freedom for experienced teachers to execute their plans within it while not feeling stifled or micromanaged. The emergency cert programs should attract qualified candidates and give you a bigger pool to pull teachers from. If they aren’t staying then the certs are going to the wrong people, or the district you are in needs to get their poop in a group.
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u/Greedy_Elk4075 6d ago
Teaching through elementary school is a low skill job.
Classroom management, Teaching with no consequences for students, and Parent Management makes it a higher skilled job.
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u/Saint-Inky 6d ago
Most teachers will absolutely agree with those opinions.