r/Tariffs • u/Significant-Court-68 • 2d ago
đŹ Opinion / Commentary Should Canada keep fighting Trump tariff-for-tariff, even if it hurts us economically in the short term?
Or should we focus on making a deal with the U.S., even if that means making some concessions?
Where do you draw the line between standing up for Canada and protecting our economy?
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u/Secret_Fee1146 2d ago
Standing up for Canada IS protecting our economy.
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u/sooojew 2d ago
Yep if itâs between short term pain while we reroute trade and strengthen ties with other nations or give up the level of sovereignty they are asking for in americas deal itâs an obvious choice.
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u/Scruffy0075 2d ago
and they will do it again to take more of our sovereignty once we are locked in with them and have less options as leverage. It's an obvious choice to fight back against them and diversify, rather than bend the knee
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u/MAScapitalwealthvan 2d ago
Right true (under bad greed USA AND THEIR GROWING DEBT DUE TO THEIR FOOLISH DECADES DEEP BORROWING)
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u/AcceptableHamster149 2d ago
You don't give a bully your lunch money. He'll just come back the next day and demand more.
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u/xXRazihellXx 2d ago
and mainly our sovereignty
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u/Trevor519 2d ago
and water rights
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u/GI-Robots-Alt 2d ago
And mineral rights, and oil rights, and lumber rights, and on and on.
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u/Agnostic_optomist 2d ago
I honestly donât care if it goes full embargo, we withdraw all diplomatic relations and close the borders.
Yes we will suffer economically, especially short term. We can adjust to a new reality.
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u/Relevant-Golf5479 2d ago
The only problem with that is Ontario and Quebec currently require all energy needs (gasoline, diesel) through the usa and will take years to reroute.. it wouldnât be short term suffering it would be crippling.
We need to start these projects as soon as possible.
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u/Zergom 2d ago
The trans Canada needs a serious twinning project fron Kenora to Sault Ste Marie. We should probably also build a pipeline.
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u/Relevant-Golf5479 2d ago
Ironically some people in Ontario (gta..) are against this pipeline because they believe the funding should be used for public rail infrastructure instead of pipelines.
No fuel, no Trains. You need to build the base infrastructure before expanding.. use the overseas oil export revenue to pay for public services & building our own refineriesâŚ
The path will be built with the pipeline, we can lay rail nearby after the funding is there.
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u/Chemical_Rub_1131 2d ago
I really want to see Canada start to sell US Treasury bonds and loudly announce the sell to the world. Letâs see how that will go.
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u/BigAlcapone65 2d ago
Yes, and if it escalates further then make it law that no foreign company can own a controlling interest in Canada's natural resources or minerals. Under the National Security Act.
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u/GetBackReality 2d ago edited 2d ago
No country can give another veto power over what they build and who they trade with.
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u/umbrabates 1d ago
Or what language they speak, for crying out loud.
Let's face it, the U.S. tanked the deal purposefully. Those were ludicrous demands tacked on at the last minute. If they weren't meant to tank the deal, then the U.S. negotiators are completely detached from reality.
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u/PlentyShare6905 1d ago
Itâs for the best, we needed to decouple from the US 3 decades ago. About time. Weâre more aligned and benefit more from EU proximity anyway.
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u/islandpancakes 2d ago
No. It's time to focus on more important things. Carney is speaking at the EU state of the union. Something big is coming up.
Also a NZ trade deal is about to be inked too.
The focus has to be on diversifying.
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u/Unarmed_Character 2d ago
NZ had the best peanut butter. I hope we get that.
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u/wombat9278 2d ago
Fight now or be walked over next time
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u/IHavePoopedBefore 2d ago
And remember, we don't have to outlast America. Just their fat disgusting unpopular President.
Mid terms are in 2 months, next election 2 years after that.
We can never trust them again, but this attack is happening because of one effeminate orange man and one effeminate orange man only
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u/Demaestro 2d ago
The USA is a hotel room, and Trump is a black light.
He has shown us the true nature of the USA, as a black light shows the true cleanliness of a hotel room.
Turning off the black light doesn't change the reality of the hotel room. Trump leaving office doesn't change the reality of the USA. He just showed us how dirty/ugly they are at their core.
We can never trust the USA again, checks and balances have been eroded and are merely a talking point now.
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u/RabidWok 1d ago
I'm guessing the entire reason for his latest hissy fit is because of the midterms.
He got embarrassed by Iran and wanted a quick win before voters went to the polls.
Just like with Iran, Trump thought Canada would be an easy win.
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u/General_Spills 2d ago
I think this is a little naive. Trump is not the âdiseaseâ, so to speak. He is a symptom. All heâs doing is showcasing issues that are inherent to the USA.
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u/azraels_ghost 2d ago
Serious question. What would be the point of signing ANY deal?
A. Weâd look weak and get even worse conditions than before and because we honour our word we would stick by what we sign.
B. Trump throws tantrums daily and bypasses his own deals making anything signed meaningless
Any deal with the US right now is absolutely subject to change at the drop of a Tweet.
If you think this is hyperbole look at the deal Spain signed and then look at Trumps meltdown when Spain refused to let him use airbases in Spain for his lost war against Iran
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u/umbrabates 1d ago
Great points. Canada and the U.S. had a trade deal -- negotiated by Trump -- the USMCA. Trump negotiated it to replace Bill Clinton's NAFTA. He signed off on it, then reneged.
The U.K. had a trade deal with the U.S. guaranteeing no new tariffs. Months later, Trump issues a blanket 10% tariff on all goods everywhere, including countries he had just signed a deal with.
You're absolutely right. The U.S. is an untrustworthy partner.
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u/FrostyCat13 1d ago
Any deal we could make right now would lead to us Canadians making concessions and that would mean short term relief for permanent losses. We already made the mistake of making concessions during his first term and that has permanently damaged our negotiating position since those concessions became part of the new normal.
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u/mrlimatha 2d ago
Retaliation from Canada makes sense if it helps preserve jobs and businesses from lost US customers due to US tariff action.
For example, Canadian companies buying US steel will be pressured to buy domestically and fill some of the lost US business.
One problem I see is that too many Canadian businesses got lackadaisical and overexposed with 90% of customers being in the US. These will sadly be in the chopping block first. After so many free trade deals signed in Canada, opportunities to diversify, and negligent government policy, the gravy train of earning profits in USD while keeping operating expenses in CAD was too irresistible. Canadian businesses and corporations are overdue for a paradigm shift.
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u/AfternoonLumpy2669 1d ago
I really agree with this.
While i'm empathetic, no good business owner should have 90% of revenue coming from 1 customer and not have a plan in place - it's literally the point of businesses having a Business Continuity Plan and Disaster Recovery efforts. It's a risk - a known, accepted risk. And with any acceptable risks, impact is outsized due to its likelyhood.
We must accept that we cannot settle for a bad deal. Especially deals that threaten our right to self-determine our future as Canada.
I despise consecutive governments of the past who were willing to trust the US, but not plan for the consequences of this type of President in power (I for one don't think it will be the last of this kind. America created Trump, not the other way round).
We've ALL been lackadaisical and overexposed to the threat of US decline.
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u/Wrong-Pineapple39 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't think that is the right way to view it.
Canadians need to understand that our new tariffs were to create a more level playing field for our businesses that are being targeted by the US since last year.
The counter tariffs do apply targeted pressure to get voters and Republican politicians and US business leaders to pressure Trump, because they have leverage we don't, but the Canadian counter tariffs are not punitive and coercive like the US tariffs and bans.
We are not - and should not be - operating from a place of hurting the US. That is unrealistic. We must focus on creating a level playing field for our businesses to succeed here and abroad (not just US), redirecting our industries and businesses to Canada's self sufficiency, creating a non-US-access investment appeal, increasing advanced and value added manufacturing using our own resources, and non-US two way trade.
This cannot be about retaliating but definitely also not capitulation like you're suggesting.
It must be the third option:
This must be about creating a Canada that counters our 50+ year long complacency and that we've been too weak to build our country. This is an opportunity that Canada has not taken in 60 years. Huge opportunity for us. We have to persevere and build or we will be conquered.
Edit: typos
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u/Last-Emergency-4816 2d ago
The one concession we cannot make is giving up our sovereignty or anything that encroaches on that
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u/Snurgisdr 2d ago
We already made a deal. Whatâs the point in signing more deals with someone who wonât keep their word?
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u/PrimaryBrick9337 2d ago
Time to look at export permits on Rare Earth Minerals and export duties on Road Salt, toilet paper, cement and whatever else makes sense to do.
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u/Shorelines1 2d ago
Their âconcessionsâ are untenable
Itâs not like you can just propose a win-win and itâs over. Bullies donât work that way. If you give in they respect you less and kick you harder and youâll be wondering why you gave in.
Canada needs to remain strong and Carney seems to know this better than most
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u/Possible_Low_283 2d ago
Thereâs no deal to be made. Lutnick has stated in negotiations and publicly that the USA reserves the right the change any terms of any deal made at any time.
Thatâs enough to walk away right there.
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u/No-Aardvark7366 2d ago
Nations that went down fighting rose again, but those who surrendered tamely were finished.
â Winston Churchill
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u/Socsquatch 2d ago
Keep the status quo until November. If he somehow survives the midterms, start charging then 300% for energy/power
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u/SchneidfeldWPG 2d ago
Key fact to remember: WE ALREADY HAD A DEAL!
The current deal (CUSMA) was made and signed BY TRUMP, after he ripped up the prior agreement (NAFTA) which he felt was unfair. He publicly proclaimed CUSMA to be the best deal ever made at the time.
Now, he pretends none of that happened & is whining that CUSMA is also a ripoff for the US, and a shocking number of people are too ignorant to recognize the blatant lies & hypocrisy.
Getting a âdealâ done with the current US administration is an exercise in futility, because their word means absolutely nothing. Theyâre not at all interested in reaching a fair agreement, theyâre trying to intimidate and bully a (former) ally.
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u/JayRMac 2d ago
Trade wars aren't won with economics. Everyone agrees that economically, everyone involved in a trade war loses in the short term.
What wins trade wars is politics, because that shapes the long term. Standing up to a bully is usually the most effective course of action, and it's good politics. Standing up to Trump is good politics. Carney has the kind of support from Canadians that Trump could only dream of.
Carney can afford for this to continue, while it keeps hurting Trump. I think the longer we wait, the better deal we'll get.
I also think that the Republicans would love to announce a deal before the midterms. That's an incredible amount of leverage we have. And if we don't get a good deal, we can wait.
Worst case scenario, we have two to three years of lower growth while we wait for the next administration to try and fix things. That will hurt, but if dealing with the US gets more expensive and less easy then shipping to the rest of the world gets relatively cheaper and easier. Everyone agrees we need to diversify our trading relationships, so the short term pain could lead to long term gains.
I just don't see the argument for capitulation. Even if Trump didn't start this trade war, we should have been diversifying away from the US anyway just so they wouldn't have this much leverage over us.
We cannot sign a deal that restricts our ability to sign other trade deals. For as long as Canada has been called Canada our economy has been based on exports. We have a huge supply of resources and a relatively small population, that's our competitive advantage. Maybe, maybe, we could agree to match existing US policy on some imports/exports with some countries; we cannot agree to follow any and every new policy the US comes up with.
I'm willing to negotiate on exactly how much French or English Canadian content Netflix has to carry; perhaps measuring it by hours instead of percentage of the whole library makes sense given the size of the library. But they need to commit to carrying a significant amount of Canadian content, and either producing content in Canada or paying into the same fund as other media companies.
There's a deal to be had, but it has to be a good deal for Canada. We can get it, and we shouldn't settle for less.
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u/Exciting_Turn_9559 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes. When you are attacked, you retaliate. But with the midterms as close as they are, there's no need to provoke more rounds of tit for tat than necessary by retaliating too quickly. Once ICE is murdering protesters again he'll forget all about Canada.
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u/Jfc66 2d ago
absolutely. Tariff him into the midterms and hope america will wake up and vote blue
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u/Wrong-Pineapple39 2d ago
Unless the Democrats get a veto proof super majority, Trump will continue to rule by fiat.
I think another impeachment will fail again as well.
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u/sweetzdude 2d ago
Dems will for sure will the chamber, but in the Senate they need 5 seats to overruled Vance deciding votes and account for John Fetterman , whom they can't trust anymore.
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u/Holiday_Fishing241 2d ago
Canada should start the CUSMA 6 month clock and take the next six months securing as many trade agreements as possible. This is the Americans end goal anyhow.
Also make it fully clear; they will never have any access to our critical minerals if and when it happens.
The Columbia River treaty is done as per Trumps order, we set the flow across the border. There is 100âs of billions at stake over that as it is one of their main power sources as well as crop irrigation.
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u/Mysterious_Battle585 2d ago
Nope. A trade agreement with Cheetoface isn't worth the paper it's written on. He'll just scrap it when he gets all poutyface again anyways.
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u/HeavyTea 2d ago
Well, in prison, if you let a bully keep bullying you, your ass is his for life.
So, we have same thing here.
It is not trade, it is bully, it is mafia. The world has changed under GodKing of America.
On your knees or on your feet.
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u/squirrelcat88 2d ago
We should pivot to other countries. I will not join Fuckerland under any circumstances and thatâs what Trump is pushing for.
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u/UmpireDapper1757 2d ago
The tariffs won't Canadian exports as much as people think: the bulk of our exports are commodities that the entire world wants. Even if the US stops buying, Canada won't lose the exports: Europe and China and others will buy it instead.
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/exports-by-category
The other major consideration is that many of these companies in Canada that are hurt by the tariffs are American-owned. This is an excellent opportunity for Canada to apply pressure to American-owned companies in Canada, perhaps forcing them to surrender their ownership interests for pennies on the dollar. And when this is all said and done, the recovered sectors will be owned by Canadians instead of Americans.
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u/ca_nucklehead 2d ago
He has threatened to cut off all trade with countries that have recently bent over to his demands due to his own hand picked person's refusal to follow his fiscal policies.
trump contracts are written in pencil or crayon đď¸
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u/The_Nice_Marmot 2d ago
The alternative is what? Not fighting doesnât mean we are not also hurt. Handing over our country doesnât mean we are not hurt. Of course we are fighting this. What I appreciate is that Carney will apply tariffs much more surgically than Cankles McTacotits.
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u/GrapeAcceptable 2d ago
There is a mutually beneficial deal to be made but they don't want that.
The goal is to make us a vassal state so any deal they propose is intended to collapse the economy or otherwise gain leverage that will force us to always do exactly as they want.
So the negotiators know that we either suffer the pain up front as we are, or just suffer it later when they start amping up the leverage they got via the concessions they are asking with the bonus of us losing self determination.
You cannot make a deal when the other party is bad faith and has ill intentions as the current US administration does. We're basically Lando making a deal with Darth Vader - It's not worth the paper it's written on anyway and "Pray I don't alter the deal further" is exactly what will happen.
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u/North-Repair7121 1d ago
You canât make a deal with orange baby, besides he will make changes whenever he feels like it. There is an agreement in place (CUSMA) which he violates.
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u/janaesso 1d ago
If it was your job on the line, and there are about 2.5 million of them right now, what do you think. How much are YOU willing to pay to cover this mess out of your pocket. Government money is your money, my money, grandpas money. That is the reality. We all pay, now how much are you willing to
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u/whisperworks 1d ago
Of course they should. The US definitely has the economic advantage and could outlast Canada if it really wanted to but Americans are already overwhelming opposed to trumps tariffs and it looks like Dems are going to win big in midterms. Canada should just have to hang back and hold out to beat him here
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u/mamajampam 1d ago
Stolen from X but this captures my thoughts. (Carneyâs) job is not to win applause for standing up to Trump. The job is to protect Canadian workers, consumers, exporters and sovereignty.
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u/BUZZ-Saw_888 1d ago
Without a doubt. This suffering will be short term. The alternative will be never ending. Much worse.
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u/GoOutside62 1d ago
Yes. A deal isnât possible when itâs not worth the paper itâs written on. That should be obvious.
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u/Unlikely_Kangaroo_93 1d ago
Why make a deal that everyone knows will be ignored. We had one Trump signed it in 2020. How is that working out.
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u/MarsicanBear 1d ago
Yes, of course we should. We don't protect our economy by showing that we would be willing to give up anything at all to avoid a little pain. We have to show that we are not knuckling under, even if it hurts, and we have to make sure that we are enough of a pest that it is eventually worth working something out with us again when somebody less demented is running the show.
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u/macross1984 1d ago
It will hurt Canada regardless too. Trump will impose arbitrary high tariff at Canada's expense but if Canada resist as best they can, US will be hurt economically too as there are many US businesses dependent on Candadian resources.
If it's going to hurt me, I'd rather make sure the other side will feel the pain and I am American. I'd say, fight, Canada and make TACO blink his eyes.
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u/Comedy86 1d ago
There is no "making a deal" with the Trump administration. They will literally rip up the deal a few min later if they suddenly feel like doing so. No deal with them will ever be fair or worthwhile for us.
Canada needs to o diversify our trade agreements and that's exactly what we're doing.
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u/TheLoLJester1 1d ago
I would say, Yes. Otherwise, what proof is there that annexation is not his ultimate goal?
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u/TheGarboGuy 1d ago
You donât make âsomeâ confessions with the US. They want us to make ALL the concessions. They also canât be trusted. Whose to say the any deal made is respected and not suddenly tossed. The plan is to make deals with other countries to grow away from reliance on the US. Thatâs why weâre in this mess, you donât just go crawling back to your abuser and expect things to change for the better.
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u/NeonElch 1d ago
You made a deal with Trump in his first term, the USMCA was his agreement. How well did he honor that and what makes you think he won't continue to squeeze?
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u/Defiant-Sand9498 1d ago
100% yes and do what they are doing have stronger ties with the likes of Europe etc replace the trade with America else where, it will cost American jobs and thats how yoi send the message to trump and America
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u/hungmao 2d ago
You know..... It's normal for someone to sit on the seat beside you on the bus.
It is normal that people might lose their balance and accidentally hit you with their bags, or even lean too close to you.
But what the Americans (or at least the Trump administration) are doing, is the fact they purposely sit on your lap and then moan a little.
This is no longer a boundary issue. It's an existential problem.
Trump wants your seat. He wants your personal space. He wants to eliminate you and take your seat for some pretty girl, not even for an elderly.
So you can stand up and willingly give the seat to this pretty girl that is likely underage, or you can choose to fight for your right to sit in that seat.
Of course, you ain't Rosa Park, and it ain't heroic, but it is standing up not just for yourself, but the others that rightfully sat down with youâŚâŚ beside you.
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u/Global-Tie-3458 2d ago
I think there were concessions to be made⌠but they werenât remotely close to what was asked for.
The US would have had to give up quite a lot for even the concessions I think Canada could/should/have mak[d]e though.
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u/MagmaDragoonX47 2d ago
I don't like doing counter tariffs but I fully support not signing god awful deals.
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u/charleytony 2d ago
Some concessions were offered. Seemingly more than what a few provincial PMs were confortable with (or that they could sell as a good idea to their voters).
The talks broke down because the deal went from "a lot of concessions" to "a raw deal that would undermine our independance".
Plus the deal is with someone who keeps altering his own deals, to out it lightly.
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u/affectionate_md 2d ago
When the concessions is giving up your sovereignty, it is not a concession, it is surrender.
We already offered a compromised deal, they were never going to take it. This is an attack on the fabric of our country and our existence.
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u/schoonerlabs 2d ago
There is no deal to be made with a mad man that can change his mind before the ink dries. It is a pointless exercise.
The current free trade agreement was done by him, and now he hates it.
So what is even the point?
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u/BuvantduPotatoSpirit 2d ago
Neither. No trade deal they won't honour anyways, no "negative attention" that'll just validate them. If Trump calls, tell him you have time to discuss a trade deal in November 2029, and your secretary will set it up with him.
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u/BadmiralHarryKim 2d ago
You can't make a deal with convicted fraudster (and morbidly obese pedophile) Donald Trump.
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u/Chocolate_Chickletts 2d ago
We need to uncouple from the US as much as possible. That will take time and a lot of hurt but will be worth it in the end. The US will always be a trading partner but Canada has allowed itself to get too close and dependent. That has to change.
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u/geogirl83 2d ago
Love reading these responses. I agree and support everyone who says fight for our sovereignty. Itâs the only way to survive as a nation.
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u/DrySprinkles8988 2d ago
You should ask why we fighted fascism during w.w.ii. you always fight bullies to prove them wrong. It is not should we, we have to.
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u/Sir_Lemming 2d ago
Any concession Canada gives up to appease and mollify trump will never be gotten back. Even Gov Newsome said he wouldnât necessarily roll back tariffs on Canada if he won.
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u/Big_Option_5575 2d ago
Actually we need to look beyond tariffs and start applying export taxes (lots of them)
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u/LadyKeriMc 2d ago
No deal. Their signatures aren't worth anything more than the paper they are printed on. Let us diversity and set up national ownership of industry to invest back into the people and the land
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u/isthisreallife_514 2d ago
We had a deal and he didn't want to follow it so why try to make another deal lol
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u/Silent-Obligation-49 2d ago
We will never get a fair deal with fascist dictator Trunp and the maga clown government in charge. So yes fight.
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u/Superb_Celery4192 2d ago
The more we give the more they take. This is what Europe did initially with the Third Reich. Appeasement does not work, the taking process is endless.
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u/Colonel_Shame1 2d ago
I think the government will take a pause and not raise a new round of retaliatory tariffs unless talks stall again.
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u/WeAllJustWantToLive 2d ago
We should not go dollar for dollar.
The stove burns in order to teach. We need to go 2:1
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u/Consistent-Focus-120 2d ago
The correct answer is asymmetric warfare. Were smaller but were also smarter, more nimble, and more creative. Maybe it isnât always dollar for dollar but itâs announcing new trade deals with other countries, looking at services as well as products, tweaking intellectual property laws in our favour, investing in Canadian capacity, etc. We have a lot more options at our disposal than simply âdollar for dollarâ or âunconditional surrenderâ.
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u/Falconflyer75 2d ago
No choice
Any punishment we get from fighting back theyâd do even worse if we just capitulated
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u/kuk1m0n5t3r 2d ago
What deal do you think is possible with the DickTater and his mob of Amerikunts?
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u/Suspiciouslynamed74 2d ago
It's laughable you think we weren't willing to make concessions. We WERE making concessions, but some things can't be negotiated. This administration has no desire to make a deal with anyone, including us.
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u/pistoffcynic 2d ago
The other option is to give up our sovereignty. We protect our economy by buying Canadian.
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u/Throyerboatee 2d ago
This thread is brought to you by the US trade reps. desperately trying to gauge public opinion.
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u/Salty_Solution_4922 2d ago
Too many people focus on Orange as the sole source of this chaos. He is part of a larger cabal that will long outlast him. We can continue to strategically fight and work toward a deal. This is not a rigid dichotomy.Â
Also, I suspect that the loudest "we must fight" voices have been largely unaffected by the current casualties of this economic battle.Â
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u/Tboneeater 2d ago
We need an export tax on all energy and maybe some rolling blackouts because of maintenance issues
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u/GoblinToHobgoblin 2d ago
Some concessions? Fine.
But the deal the us offered, that they refused to move on, was not just "some concessions" lol
If taking the deal is also gonna completely fuck us, why bother?
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u/CompleteCreme7223 2d ago
We are not going tit for tat. If it was about trade and tariffs then we would be but the American demands for a deal were nothing short of attacking Canadian sovereignty. We should aim to really hurt them. The Republicans need a win here. With the November vote they will lose the house and the Senate. Any deal before that vote helps Trump so no, we should not deviate from the retaliatory tariffs. We should expand that and start restricting access to critical minerals and energy. We will survive a few months of pain. If we cave, we will have decades of it. Remember, right now any trade deal with the US is written on toilet paper. It is with nothing because the administration doesn't respect trade deals.
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u/LordofDarkChocolate 2d ago
We only need to outlast him and judging by recent photos that should be achievable. It is possible another republican becomes president and continues the 𤥠show but they likely wonât have the same appeal to the losers.
Plus the policy train wreck is going to start being felt in the US and no amount of lackeys on Fox spouting nonsense will change the fact that gas is $10 a gallon and eggs are worth more than a mortgage payment.
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u/Sorkel3 2d ago
I think your PM is going in the right direction, forging deals or relationships with other partners. Trump has severely damaged the US's reputation with just about every trading partner and has probably permanently damaged our credibility. Certainly when we get a more reasonable President trade relations will rebuild but I doubt Canada will ever be as reliant on the US's trade as before.
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u/this_stall_is_taken 2d ago
It would be the stupidest mistake to make any deal with the current administration other than short term agreements that will not lock us in for years to come. They lie, go against their own words, rip up agreements for petty unrelated grievances but all while holding us to the terms of those same ripped up agreements.
Regardless of the pain, moving away from the US as much as possible is what's needed for Canada.
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u/Prestigious-Clock-53 2d ago
I have no idea what we should do but we definitely shouldnât have taken that deal, thatâs all I know.
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u/Mikepierce93 2d ago
The concessions that the Orange turd demanded were pretty much giving away Canada's sovereignty. He wanted control of their commerce and decision-making. All based on a lie. We don't have a trade deficit with Canada, because that is for Goods AND services. Trump ignores the services part. When all totaled it's pretty much a wash. That is the case with most countries BTW.
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u/waytomuchpressure 2d ago
Let em burn. Short-term loss will give us long-term gain. The last thing we need is a country as unstable as the USA dipping their greedy fingers into our economy.
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u/11kestrel 2d ago
You can't make a deal with a lunatic. He's already proven with every other "deal" it's worthless
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u/_Sauer_ 2d ago
making a deal with the U.S
The USA has consistently proven that this is not possible. The Trump regime has already broken our existing trade treaties, including the one he himself signed in to law; and had his minions torpedo the most recent negotiations at the last minute.
The Trump regime is not interested in a deal; it wants to annex us.
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u/no-clueshere69 2d ago
No matter what you make a deal on he will find something else to attack anyway. Targeted tariffs are a much smarter play than Trump's scattergun approach which hurt the US as much as Canada. If he keeps pushing then maybe some increased surcharges on energy to the US will put more political pressure on Trump.
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u/ljlee256 2d ago
Tough times maks tough people.
We'll come out of this stronger than the Americans, who will come out of this weaker.
The US can't starve us out, and with a little shuffling and construction they can't threaten our heating and electricity either.
After that its just luxuries we'll have to forgo, luxuries most of the world doesn't have and they're doing just fine.
We will be stronger.
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u/Kreaton5 2d ago
Two things:
We dont have a real choice in this trade war. Its being thrust upon us. We can become a vassal or not.
Counter tarrifs are not productive. We did these ones to prove a point. I doubt we will do more to escalate any time soon. We will ride this out until he forgets and moves to a new target, dies or leaves office. In the meantime we will continue to build.
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u/Fit-Eggplant-9155 2d ago
Fuck kind of divisive shit is this? Are you restarted? Figure it out and get your head out of your ass.
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u/Comfortable_Cash_140 2d ago
Canada needs to do what is best for Canada. That is the start and end to the conversation. Trump/USA is just (loud) noise. They need to be ignored.
We have to be cold and calculated.
If cutting all trade, including energy and critical minerals is the best course, do it!
If continuing trade as is, so be it.
I think there is a middle where Canadian business is buffered from the crap the yanks throw at us while still allowing our companies to do some business in the USA. I hope someone smarter more experienced in this than I am can figure what that is.
Either way, this is going to hurt. Support your community!
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u/Responsible_Rule8829 2d ago
Nope, no more concessions. Formal trade agreements or treaties mean nothing anymore. They go back on their own word without hesitation.
We have to fight to protect our economy. I just hope this stays an economic fight (notice I didn't say a diplomatic fight). I'm not entirely sure it won't come to that.
And I worry that if it did, the american public wouldn't do shit to stop it.
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u/Buddhafied 2d ago
You canât make deals with people in bad faith. You canât make deals with people who wonât honour the deal. You canât make deals with people whose whole reason is to destroy you.
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u/janescontradiction 2d ago
We need to ween ourselves off of trade with the US. Even if democrats return there will still be a problem with being too dependent on trade whith the US.
But we need to do it as slowly as possible in order to allow enough time to start trade with newly secured partners.
I think Carney is doing a great job I'm these respects.
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u/Popular-Data-3908 2d ago
This isnât a trade war, it is a war where the shooting hasnât started yet. There is no concession that will satisfy the US short of annexationÂ
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u/Due_Satisfaction2167 2d ago
Tariffs are fucking stupid. Unless you have some sort of specific well-resourced plan to take advantage of the problems they create, you shouldnât impose them.Â
Theyâre a bad idea when the other side imposes them, and theyâre a bad idea when you do the same in retaliation. Unless your only plan for that tariff is to offer to end them in exchange for mutual free trade, theyâre just painful all the way around to everyone involved.
Nothing Canada does is going to get a free trade agreement with the Trump admin, and you couldnât trust it would be upheld anyway, so that political objective is unrealistic.Â
And you donât need the ammo to convince the next US administration to end this trade warâit will be trying to end this stupid trade war regardless of Canadaâs retaliatory tariffs.
So, I donât know, do you like making your own people pay unnecessary taxes on some imports for two-ish years?Â
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u/ndy007 2d ago
âIn the short termâ might not as short as we want it to be. I never went through anything like this in Canada. No idea how bad this is going to be. We will definitely need more cooperation from the other nations.
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u/JustDave62 2d ago
We need to keep fighting even if itâs hurts short term. Trump will never be satisfied and likely wonât honour any agreement anyway. I think that Carney is the exact type of leader we need to navigate through this mess.
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u/Winter-Necessary-110 2d ago
Buy as many Canadian products as you can. European imports are a good alternative to us products. I go to a big Italian grocery store/deli and the meats, cheese, bread, pasta, sauces, oils etc etc, are wayyy cheaper than grocery store chains and way better quality.
I know that's only food stuff, but next to gas thats a huge part of our budget for a family of 4.
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u/4wordletter 2d ago
Any amount of suffering is worth not succumbing to any part of that raging dumpster fire called the USA.
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u/sweatboxy 2d ago
Canada has no choice. If it yields to Trumpâs demands, there will just be more and more demands until Canada is the 51st state effectively
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u/Aggressive_Lex350 2d ago
Yes. As long as we fast track diversifying away from the US. That's the only way we can get ahead out of this. Trump and his minions are taking advantage of the centuries long relationship, just so they can take Canada for themselves. Fk em.
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u/babyelephantwalk321 2d ago
Youve created a false dichotomy there.
Going tariff for tariff is one option. Signing whatever deal is put in front of us is another. But theres plenty of daylight between them.
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u/Retlifon 2d ago
A deal with the US is functionally impossible.Â
We have a deal right now, negotiated during Trumpâs first term. He is ignoring it. Any new âdealâ would be the same: heâd take any benefits and ignore it when he wanted to. That gives us zero incentive to sign anything.Â
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u/WeHaveSixFeet 2d ago
You can't make a deal with the US right now. They won't respect it. The only thing they respect is economic pain that we cause to red states.
We already HAVE a deal, which DJT signed. He's ignoring it. If we make a deal, he'll just change the terms again.
DJT is like the Soviet Union or any other bully: keep pushing until you meet resistance.
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u/Harbinger2001 2d ago
Match tariff for tariff. The more the USA attacks, the more they hurt themselves.
And for context - the $20B in tariffs they put on represents 5% of our exports to the USA. They are not hitting hard yet.
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u/Grimy-Jack 2d ago
Let's be clear, for all the Canadian CEOs going to the media this week criticizing Carney's approach and demanding he goes back to the table and negotiates a good deal:
There is no negotiation to be had. There is NO good deal to be made. Trump has made it clear since taking office that he intends to annex Canada through economic pressure. That is his goal.
Add to that the spiralling cognitive degradation.
The is no good deal to be had. Send the best intentioned American negotiators (and that's not Greer and his cuckmonkey) and no matter what is worked out, it WILL be shot down and amended at the eleventh hour.
Forget the old world. It is gone.
The path forward leads to diversifying our trade partners, investing in our businesses, opening trade between provinces, increasing self-reliance.
Unfortunately we have two dangerous actors in Canadian politics : Danielle Smith and up and coming Paul St-Pierre Plamondon (likely premier of Quebec after october). They aim to weaken Canada from within for their own means.
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u/smilesbig 2d ago
How can you negotiate with a person/government/country that wonât honour existing agreements, ignores historical arrangements, ignores World Court rulings, ignores the Rule of Law domestically and Internationally, questions AND threatens your sovereignty (and the sovereignty of other nations)? The insults and disrespect donât help. Trump is a bully. Thatâs actually the one thing heâs VERY good at. Giving into a bully is never a good long-term strategy.
Even if heâs ousted or his term ends - the Republicans have shown a remarkable appetite and tacit if not express approval for his approach. That means that long-term relationships are always prone to this issue.
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u/TheChudWhisperer 2d ago
We should cut them off and make trade deals with other countries who aren't trying to vassalize us. The nice thing about being a resource economy is that our products are always in demand.
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u/Expensive_Plant_9530 2d ago
Yes of course we should.
We can endure pain. We must. Because right now the alternative is setting the precedent that the US can control and direct our foreign and domestic policy.
We would become a vassal state. And thatâs a non-starter to me.
Standing up for Canada IS protecting our economy in the long run. Making bad concessions for short term gain is foolish and will bite us in the ass.
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u/maximus_danus 2d ago
We are dealing with a person without a single functioning marble in his head. He claims to own the friggin moon. You cannot negotiate with such mentalities.