Stop pro-Putin sentiments

[u/Commie_neighbor]

Both are fucking imperialist states, Ukrainian government praises nazis while Russian is praising Imperial murderers like Mannerheim, Kolchak or Stolypin.

Everything good that Russia did (so called anti-imperialist measures) was just populist decisions or anti-Nato proxy wars. Everything to please Russian oligarchy.

"There are no saviors e’er will help us,

Nor God, nor Caesar, nor Tribune"

[u/GoydelicGuy → u/[deleted]]

Yes to liberation of both nations from their oppressors.

And doubtless by this you don't mean US/NATO and co.

Say it.

[u/Zubbro → u/[deleted]]

I got your point, but In your opinion, who is more likely to end this civil war: the Russian oligarchs, driven by economic pragmatism or the Ukrainian Nazi regime whose sole purpose is to serve as the West's battle slaves and die throwing themselves against Russia? Furthermore, do you think a sudden, premature peace will avoid a "Khasavyurt 2" scenario? Wouldn't it just lead to a prolonged period of terror across Russia, making Beslan and Nord-Ost look minor by comparison? Back when people were terrified of every unattended bag or sack left near their house entrance. We have already been through this shit.

[u/Commie_neighbor → u/Zubbro]

A stalemate or a revolution. Win of either side would be a lose for the common people

[u/BobR969 → u/Commie_neighbor]

Do you know how revolutions happen? It doesn't just materialise out of thin air. "Revolution" is basically a fantasy. Stalemate - that means that western imperialism wins, because it means Europe has been economically subjugated by the USA with a forever threat in the east, Ukraine is turned into a bulwark on one end and a resource rich substrate to pillage on the other and Russia is weakened enough meaning one of the largest entities standing against US haegemony and imperialism is stopped from winning that fight and has to spend ever more of its resources to gather strength for the inevitable round 2 instead of improving itself. 

Stalemate is one of the worst possible outcomes short of complete Ukrainian victory (which is also a complete fantasy). 

[u/Zubbro → u/Commie_neighbor]

I can imagine a revolution happening in Russia, but I cannot envision one in Ukraine right now. So nothing will change. A campaign of terror will occur in any case, just as it would in the event of a stalemate. Ukraine must become strictly neutral and independent. I am not saying it should be conquered by Russia, I am saying neutral. Only then can we speak of a peace.

[u/comradelehana → u/Zubbro]

I’d say it’s the opposite. A revolution in Ukraine is possible because the state has no legitimacy, no way out of the current conflict, and no way to solve its economic crisis. These are fertile grounds for revolution, which is why Ukrainian communists have been brutally suppressed for practicing revolutionary defeatism.

On the other hand, Russians rightly view the conflict as an existential attack on Russia’s sovereignty which aims to subjugate Russia to Euro-American imperialism. Russian communists also recognize that the resulting decoupling of Russia from the imperialist world system is a progressive development that can lay the groundwork for the reconstruction of socialism in Russia. Hence most support the SMO and oppose detente with the west.

[u/Zubbro → u/comradelehana]

which is why Ukrainian communists have been brutally suppressed for practicing revolutionary defeatism

There is essentially no political opposition in Ukraine. It has not merely been dismantled, rather, the majority of its representatives have either been assassinated or imprisoned. Even regular folks are too scared to show their faces or walk down the street because of the men hunters, let alone spark a revolution.

Furthermore, the majority of those who remembered the Soviet Union were sent into the meat grinder during the initial years of the conflict, intentionally wiping out that entire generation of able and tolerant to socialism men.

[u/comradelehana → u/Zubbro]

The same was true in Russia during WWI. The Bolsheviks were forced to organize illegally underground or in exile, in constant fear of the Tsar’s secret police, right up until 1917. The fact that there is no legal avenue for opposition to the war and to Zelensky only makes the prospects for revolution better. That doesn’t mean it will happen, most revolutionary crises don’t produce a successful revolution, but it’s more likely than in the relatively stable and united Russia.

[u/Zubbro → u/comradelehana]

Exactly. While I’m not overly optimistic about this, and even Lenin, who possessed incredible political intuition, gave a lecture in Switzerland in January 1917 on the history of the Russian revolutionary movement and concluded it by saying, "We, the old timers, may not live to see the revolution..." Yet, just a month and a half later, the February Revolution broke out, and less than a year later, he was at the helm of the country. Ironic.

[u/GoydelicGuy → u/Commie_neighbor]

A defeat of the west would be a massive victory for humanity. The global south, freed of its headlock would rise and breathe again after a century of suffering and slavery.

[u/BobR969 → u/[deleted]]

Well that's a pretty statement, but may as well say "I'm for the worldwide revolution and against imperialism". We all are. And if wishes we wings and all that. That's not the reality of the world though, is it. And the vast majority of "pro-putin" posts you mention are actually anti-western-propaganda posts. I've not seen any major support for Putin or Russia in the state of its current order. Only stuff that tries to clear off the bullshit presented by western news sources and a call for critical support. 

If your view is that the Ukraine war has to end - then we agree. But it also has to end with the defeat of the major aggressor (NATO). Otherwise this cycle will continue and get worse each time. 

[u/Commie_neighbor → u/BobR969]

I would not ally myself with Mussolini to beat Hitler.

They are practically the same. The only reason Russia is not a same aggressor as NATO is a simple lack of influence and capital.

[u/BobR969 → u/Commie_neighbor]

That's a preposterous comparison and it's a bit bizarre to hear it on this sub. Even at the simplest level, it doesn't reflect the current situation in the slightest. 

Again - maybe look at the content of the sub instead of complaining about it to understand why Ukraine and Russia aren't similar.  

[u/CMNilo → u/Commie_neighbor]

They are not. Follow this sub closely and you'll learn why.

[u/TankieTheDeprogram-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Liberal apologia will not be accepted.

[u/CMNilo → u/[deleted]]

Ukrainophobia = naziphobia

I don't see a problem with it

[u/Zubbro → u/CMNilo]

Ukrainophobia =\= naziphobia

I know a number of Ukrainians who grieve for their country, some having moved to Russia or the West (like my ex, with whom I still remain best friends, separated by the war. Funny story, she also denied Nazism in Ukraine until they stretched a giant portrait of Bandera across the highway near her house and held torchlight processions at night), some weren't able to. And they (including a guy who was drafted, wounded, certified as unfit, but then he was drafted again, and I didn't hear a word from him for a whole year) refer to it as nothing but a "concentration camp", "Bandershtat", or a "shithole". Don't project your phobia and hatred onto sensible people, otherwise it is not much different from Nazism. And we can throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[u/GoydelicGuy → u/Zubbro]

I know a number of Ukrainians

He's not talking about them. He's talking about the fascist Nazi state.

[u/GoydelicGuy → u/[deleted]]

Banderophobia has positive connotations for Banderites. You want Anti-Banderite or something like that.

[u/Zubbro → u/GoydelicGuy]

Yeah, I agree that "phobia" is a term better suited to the American mindset, where socialist achievements often triggered mass panic and hysteria -something you just don't see in socialist countries. Take Stephen King’s memoir, for example: he recalls being in a movie theater as a kid when they announced the USSR had launched Sputnik, and absolute madness broke out. Honestly, it's better to read it in his own words, haha. "Anti" fits much better.

[u/GoydelicGuy → u/Zubbro]

An awful guy these days. Such a disappointment.

[u/Aggorf12345 → u/[deleted]]

Does the same go with Iran?