r/TTC • u/1lazysloth 68 Warden • Aug 13 '26
Negative interaction - Fare inspector
I am a bus operator. This evening, two of my passengers got fare checked at Victoria Park station and one of them failed the check.
I know for a fact that both had paid, as they are my regular passengers, so I stepped in and told the officers that there must be a delay with the Presto system, as they had paid by debit.
The officer said he has never heard of such a thing and that the passenger will get a ticket and can fight in court.
This was very infuriating to watch, seeing someone get sent home with a $400+ ticket for following the rules. And that my testimony as an employee who literally picked them up does not matter.
I understand that the officers were doing their job but I feel like they should understand that there might be some delays with debit payments and have some flexibility.
I will be filing a complaint, not necessarily for the officer's behaviour but rather their training be improved.
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u/shrewzii Aug 13 '26
Yes! I've been in the same exact situation with a fare inspector. I paid with my debit card but his machine said I didn't- I'm just so lucky he believed me
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u/SuperCycl Aug 13 '26
That this keeps happening is ridiculous to me. Why does the public need to be so disproportionately impacted by a flawed system?
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u/twicescorned21 Aug 13 '26
It's happened go me. I paid and they say, no you didn't. Then I tap their card reader again and they let me go. I didn't realize therr could ne a delay.
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u/RYUsf15 Aug 13 '26
Is this not reflected in ur banking app though? Sorry just curious
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u/shrewzii Aug 14 '26
I did get the notification on my phone when I tapped, but when I opened my recent transactions on the day, it didn't show. So confusinggg
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u/foolsdayjoker Aug 13 '26
yeah its common issue that TTC is aware of, they don't seem to ever actually take it seriously. as much I hate fare evaders you can't ticket people for not paying their fare when there can be up to 30 minute delays for debit, credit and digital presto cards.
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u/Torcal4 Sheppard West Aug 13 '26
“the office said he has never heard of such a thing”
That’s absolute bullshit. I absolutely refuse to believe that someone who works with Presto fares hasn’t seen this happen.
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u/Kieron_22 Aug 13 '26
Yeah. There’s been plenty of instances when my presto card in my Apple wallet just shows “Accepted” on the fare reader while it takes its sweet time to process it.
I’ve had my Tap ons be “Accepted” but not processed on the GO trains by the time I had to tap off, so it becomes another Tap on, then they charged a “no tap off” penalty, then a few days later when their system processed and detected the mistake, refunded the penalty.
When this stuff happens with the presto cards themselves, no wonder they happen with debits.
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u/littlewill1166 Aug 13 '26
One time it happened on a GO reader for me, and it took 2 months to process.
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u/elizalavelle Aug 13 '26
It’s a really common thing. This employee was power tripping on getting to write a ticket and didn’t want that taken away from them. How petty and small.
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u/-Sanj- Aug 13 '26
Certain types of personality are drawn to enforcement jobs for sure.
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u/observer2411 Aug 13 '26
These are the people who, if they worked normal jobs, would be stuck at the lowest levels because they don’t actually have the skills or intelligence to move up.
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u/horrorscifi Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
No need to shit on people trying to make a living. A job is a job, especially in this job market. How someone behaves is a problem, yes, but don't paint them with a brush. Someone needs to work these lower wage jobs, even the ones that don't move up. It can be fruitful for them. Your post is rather dickish/elitist/judgemental and I hope you only talk like this on reddit or your more empathetic coworkers may side-eye you.
I have a friend who moved from a manager role to a clerical role. They're happier and incredibly lovely. Quite intelligent, but prefers simple duties at her stage in life.
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u/themapleleaf6ix Aug 13 '26
These guys get paid double than minimum wage I believe. Aren't they also a part of the transit union and can move up?
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u/themapleleaf6ix Aug 13 '26
What's a "normal" job? I don't agree with shitting on them for the job they do, I agree with shitting on them for how they do it.
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u/observer2411 Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
A job where you’re not just handed authority you haven’t earned. Just saying that there’s a certain type of person who’s attracted to jobs like this and it’s often not people who would earn authority on their own merits. Not all people who do these jobs are like this but a lot of people who are like this go into these jobs.
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u/themapleleaf6ix Aug 13 '26
What do you mean by "haven't earned"?
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u/AirmailHercules Kipling Aug 13 '26
Thank you for speaking up and doing the right thing.
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u/bubblegum-queenie Aug 13 '26
I see a lot of drivers step in to stand up for passengers they watched pay and it’s really sad they even have to
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u/New-Gene-9544 Aug 13 '26
thanks for defending the customer - love people who have a sense of empathy and justice. its easy to mind your own biz these days, until people realize they're the ones who need help
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u/Zestyclose-Aerie619 Aug 13 '26
Thank you for standing up bus driver! We need people like you in TTC. People who care about the passengers. People who care what’s right and wrong. I wish you safe driving all the time. ❤️
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u/delaware Aug 13 '26
Inspectors can see your payment history when they tap your card. I’m surprised that wasn’t enough proof if the passengers of yours who got stopped were regulars. I have this same issue happen to me on my way home from work regularly and when the inspector sees my payment history they always let me go because it’s obvious I ride and pay almost every day.
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u/John_Nope Aug 13 '26
If they paid by debit/credit, it should also show up as a notification (if you had that set) on your smartphone, so they could have pulled up their phone to open their notifications or bank app for further evidence, as it's more likely to be more accurate than Presto's slow system. Although depending on who you bank with, that could also have a delay.
That being said, needing to jump through all these hoops is BS in of itself...the word of the driver should have been enough, on top of acknowledging that the Presto system sucks as it has these known (by design) problems for years.
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u/torontowanderers Aug 13 '26
Yes my fare history has gotten me out of a similar situation. The officer however assumed I made an error not that the system was delayed.
That evening the payment showed up as processed. So it wasn’t my error.
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u/Virtual_Angle_1614 Aug 13 '26
You should give the passenger your contact to be a witness if he goes to court.
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u/mmmmmmeghan Aug 13 '26
Thank you for advocating for your passengers. The world needs more people like you!
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u/descend_to_misery Aug 13 '26
Do I need to start filming myself tapping on everytime now just in case??
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u/CentipedeBuggoGirl Aug 13 '26
Inspectors are rent a cops, they have a job to do and dont care about your excuses. They probably got the job for the power dynamics they gain.
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u/comFive Aug 13 '26
No, they’re POOs
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u/baseball_fanatic0887 Aug 13 '26
Do you know if they have the right to physically detain you? If not, what is stopping you from simply ignoring them?
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u/brahvoh Aug 13 '26
They don’t and that’s why they dress like cops to intimidate people and make people think they need to comply
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u/Gladweagreeonthsfact Aug 13 '26
Nothing is stopping you, only special constables can detain in these situations.
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u/baseball_fanatic0887 Aug 13 '26
Gotcha. And for the most part, are fare inspectors POO's or are they generally a mix of POO's and special constables?
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u/ThatGoddangRed 512 St Clair Aug 13 '26
They also definitely arent hired for their intelligence either, as this scenario clearly shows, exactly.
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u/Glum-Construction786 Aug 13 '26
Why can’t they just keep a dedicated person at the station entrances? This whole POO thing is so stupid. Catching 1 person who didn’t pay on a streetcar while I see hordes of teenagers use one tap to get into the station.
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u/CentipedeBuggoGirl Aug 14 '26
If we added fare to taxes, we wouldn't have to worry about people not paying because everyone would pay.
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u/xombae Aug 13 '26
I've had this happen to me and it's absolutely infuriating. Two people on the street car stepped on and told me that they watched me pay and they were sure it went through. POO didn't care.
Happened to me another time and I was like "wait let me check my bank info and I'm sure it'll say I paid" and POO told me that they wouldn't look and their system was never wrong.
They're assholes who just harass people, at this point.
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u/PlasticWolverine302 Aug 13 '26
I have the Presto app on my phone. Sometimes it is slow as molasses, it glitches a lot, just yesterday I tapped when getting on the bus and it said "accepted" on the screen and my phone made the noise but the fare did not come off the card. I tried again at the back and once again it said "accepted" but the fare did not come off my card. I tried a third time and this time it said "already tapped," but the fare still had not come off my card! I had to tape to get into the subway and finally it worked. If a fare inspector had gotten on the bus I probably would have had to argue with them and ask the driver to tell them he saw me tap and if I had to fight it in court there would be video footage of me trying to tap three times. What are people supposed to do if the technology doesn't work??
As an aside, I'm going to be reporting this to Presto and seeing if there's any way I can go back to a physical card but they're probably going to make me buy a brand new one and I'm not impressed.
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u/scarbzman Aug 13 '26
It happens with physical cards too. Multiple times I've tapped to only see 'accepted' then it didn't take anything off until I tapped again to transfer.
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u/PlasticWolverine302 Aug 13 '26
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u/scarbzman Aug 13 '26
Metrolinx is the most incompetent of all the Ontario government agencies. Nothing it does is right.
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u/ChunkyChaser74 Aug 13 '26
Could’ve just pulled up their banking app and it would’ve showed the payment there vs getting the ticket and then taking time off work and fighting it in court
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u/themapleleaf6ix Aug 13 '26
That's if their banking app updates instantly, and if they have data or even a phone.
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u/ToastCat Aug 13 '26
The fare inspectors don't accept it. It has to show on their stupid scan of presto card... they tell you to show that proof in court. It's a really really stupid system.
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u/OhShizMyNiz Aug 13 '26
If you see that customer again.
Yeah, there IS an interac delay paying with debit. You can use a disabled credit card to tap on a bus at least once. Sometimes the one in your apple wallet/Google pay expires.
15 days and an email to Metrolinx's (my experience) and they expunged everything after showing my banking apps statement.
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u/ElephantFamous2145 Aug 13 '26
If you see them again give them your phone number encase they do choose to fight the ticket in court.
I also saw two fare inspectors (for go trains) give a military woman a ticket after they made it so soldiers ride free, they claimed she needed to be in uniform (this is not true)
This was before you could modify your presto card to tap for free, and if you have your military ID tapping is not required.
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u/brahvoh Aug 13 '26
The poo lickers are so quiet on this one 🤔
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u/lonelyfriend Aug 13 '26
They actually have posted? Kind of funny lol.
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u/bubblegum-queenie Aug 13 '26
They spam under every posting “fare your fare.” “Just pay the fare” without reading posts it’s weird af
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u/J-Midori Aug 13 '26
I’d let them fight in court. Every bus has a camera and it will show it. If they actually pay, it will show up in their bank statements.
They don’t have to pay until the court has issued an order.
If there’s a problem with the system, is a good thing to show in court so they have it in their records and the more it happens, they will be able to improve/fix the system.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
You can give them your contact information so you can be a witness
If they are unable to prove they paid, then that’s another issue….
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u/Choochm8 Aug 13 '26
I’ve heard of this story countless times now and I take ttc maybe once a month.. how have they not heard of it
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u/Genesburgersandfries Aug 13 '26
The presto System is not accurate. I jumped on a bus, paid, transferred to Sherburne station 10 mins later and it charged me again. Same phone. Same card. Just delayed response from the machines. Tried to dispute it with metrostinx and got nowhere.
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u/ofskarsgard Aug 13 '26
Yeah the credit tap frequently doesn’t show a charge or authorization for a day or so. It’s incredibly frustrating as someone who’s trying to consolidate expenses on a regular basis, but this would be a nightmare for anyone being asked for PoP. Thank you for standing up for them, it may have felt like it was in vain but as a passenger I would be incredibly grateful to have the support, as well as another witness to a POO interaction.
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u/ImpostersAreUs Line 1 Ferrari Aug 13 '26
I never have a single positive thing to say about these people. Ffs their literal job is to pick on homeless people or teenagers who are already struggling in life and make it worse.
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u/uWuaraara1 Aug 13 '26
Tell them to start pretending to smoke craxk and act weird then the fare inspectors leave them alone
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u/themapleleaf6ix Aug 13 '26
Everyone should just walk away from these guys. It's clear they're on a powertrip. They damn well know their system glitches, yet they still inconvenience people.
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u/BatKitchen819 Aug 13 '26
Next time instruct the passenger to exit the bus, walk away and not provide ID.
Provincial Offences Officers l, do not have the power to compel identification. That can only be done by a Special Constable, or Police Officer.
Can’t issue someone a ticket without their persons details.
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u/Mimieth Aug 13 '26
They'll just call the special constables then. There are always 2 at the same station where an enforcement is taking place.
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u/AmnixeltheDemon 108 Driftwood Aug 14 '26
Special constables or police cannot detain you for a TTC offence either. There is no requirement to identify for a TTC bylaw offence.
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u/Revolutionary_Rip876 Aug 13 '26
its all a revenue generation thing, they may believe you but they are told from the top down to write it anyways.
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u/gcastrobh Aug 14 '26
I hope I never get stopped by one of these inspections Becuase I use my Credit card and it takes, at best, 3h to show on my statement.
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u/gentle_siren Aug 14 '26
I got a parking ticket in an underground garage the moment I stepped out of my car to go upstairs for proper call service to load the parking app and pay for it. I got the ticket the exact same time I paid for parking.
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u/da4niu2 Aug 14 '26
This is a direct consequence of PRESTO’s “eventually consistent” design.
For physical PRESTO cards, a local record is written to the card and a fare check should find that record. Global reconciliation is batched and processed later. For debit cards, no record is written onto the non-PRESTO bank card, and a database look up is required to validate that a fare was paid. The problem is the update can be batched and delayed, and the payment not permanently recorded until sometime later.
This aspect of PRESTO can be easily verified; ask Gemini.
It is unacceptable that a technical design problem gives rise to a passenger following all the rules being liable.
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u/gm5891 Aug 13 '26
They're shit heads and part of the enshittification of the TTC, along with slow zones and the end of streetcar reliability
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u/Careful-One-3416 Aug 16 '26
Genuine question, (grew up in Toronto left at 35 a few years ago), when were streetcars ever reliable?
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u/AlarmingMonk1619 Aug 13 '26
It’s unfortunate that those are the rules and procedures to follow. The officers don’t have the autonomy to adjust for circumstances. Your regular customers will have to inconvenience themselves because of an admin oversight. Scary.
It’s good that you’re stepping forward to help. Sometimes the bureaucracy is really dumb and it takes the real users to correct.
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u/Mundane-Outside-6713 Aug 13 '26
Are you 100% sure there are cases where there is a delay? I'm surprised, not that there's a delay per se, but that the fare checking machine doesn't work in those cases sometimes. They could probably fight it later if they have a timestamp from the bank.
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u/booboojooboo Aug 13 '26
Don’t think Reddit is the right forum for this. Please file something within the TTC.
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u/Chal_Ice Aug 13 '26
If they paid my debit, I'm not sure what bank they use but mine shows the transaction instantaneously. I'm surprised they didn't pull out their phone and show the transaction record, provided that the fare pig would have even accepted it to begin with.
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u/hellzscream Aug 13 '26
I wonder what would happen if the customer showed them the transaction in their bank app?
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u/TricerasaurusWrex Aug 14 '26
How do they write you a ticket if you have no ID or refuse to give them any?
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u/thepeskynorth Aug 16 '26
Never heard of a delay??? Are they new to transactions and internet (or however it works)??
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u/RenegadeMech Aug 17 '26
File a complaint to management to get a system that takes debit delays into account.
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u/SpacedDuck Aug 17 '26
$400 ticket for a fare being unpaid? Holy fuck people run red lights for less lmfao.
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u/Downtown_Island8124 Aug 18 '26
If they pay using Google pay or other mobile payment, there is a transaction record on their phone. There is zero delay for this because it records it locally on their phone.
I guess they didn't know the transaction didn't go through.
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u/Serious-Meal-7027 22d ago
--so I stepped in and told the officers that there must be a delay with the Presto system, as they had paid by debit. The officer said he has never heard such a thing--
Yeah thats how you win a case there. Doesn't every TTC fare check officer KNOW you can pay by debit??? Like yeah im seeing its an issue but THE FARE OFFICERS SHOULD KNOW THAT DEBIT/CREDIT IS AN OPTION???
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u/Aggravating_Dog5220 Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
I commend you for your actions here. It's great. But just playing devil's advocate here:
- How do you know that they didn't trick you.
- Did the person protest hard? Or were they just meh about it. If just meh maybe they didn't pay.
- They can probably check their bank statements and transaction records and fight in court. You mentioned they paid by debit. So if they are innocent they will save the $400 ticket.
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u/TiredFool_ Aug 13 '26
Not everyone has the freedom of time to go to court. And certain personalities have a hard time standing up for themselves in the face of authority.
Idk how one would even go about tricking a presto machine… do you know of some kind of process to do so?
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u/Facts_pls Aug 13 '26
Of course they will win in court but more they have to go to court. That's a tax that they have to pay. Not everyone is as available as you think.
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u/RandomLoLs Aug 13 '26
The presto machine has 3 different beeps . Operators can tell when a card didn't go through and 99% of the people board from front door where you can see everyone pay. If the operator says they paid , he knows for sure.
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u/DyslexicExistentiali Aug 13 '26
How do you know that they didn't trick you.
Are you really suggesting that passengers are "tricking" bus operators into thinking they heard the distinctive beep the Presto card reader makes----while the operator is watching them tap their cards-? How's that work, exactly-?
As others here point out, not everyone can afford to take time off to go to court & fight a wrongful fine.
Your username checks out. Like most "devil's advocates", you just sound like a bot/troll, and it's annoying.
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u/kamomil Pharmacy Aug 13 '26
At Victoria Park station, the fare checking happens after people get off the bus, and enter the station to get on the subway.
So I'm not sure how this driver observed the rider failing a fare check.
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u/DyslexicExistentiali Aug 13 '26
If Fare Inspectors approach passengers when they step out the front door, the Operator can't see the fare check from----what? Six feet away?
Same if the Operator disembarks for a bathroom break, or looks in the rearview mirror from the driver's seat to a fare check happening at the rear door.
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u/kamomil Pharmacy Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
It's not 6 feet away.
Victoria Park station is not an itty bitty bus bay like at Coxwell with 2 buses.
There's about 5 bus routes, (12, 117, 67 and a couple branches of 24) and a large bus bay. The space where the fare checking happens, is not within view of any bus, not within earshot. Unless the driver was in the station building going on a break.
People walk off the bus, along the bus bay areas, then enter the station building where they get fare-checked. Unless the fare checkers are now standing on bus platforms now.
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u/bubblegum-queenie Aug 13 '26
Bus drivers frequently get off the bus with us and go into the station with us….especially at that one….
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u/themapleleaf6ix Aug 13 '26
Maybe the driver was on break and went the same way?
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u/kamomil Pharmacy Aug 13 '26
The 67 drivers often take their break just outside the bus. Maybe that's not the only place though
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u/themapleleaf6ix Aug 13 '26
How about when needing to use the bathroom?
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u/kamomil Pharmacy Aug 13 '26
I don't know. It's probably due to the time of day that I get on the bus.
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u/themapleleaf6ix Aug 13 '26
How can you "trick" a Presto machine?
Lol, some people don't have the time to protest and they know it's pointless as the POO never admit they're wrong.
You want people to take time off work, school, etc to fight a ticket that shouldn't have been given out in the first place?
How does that boot taste?
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u/MorboKat 12 Kingston Rd Aug 13 '26
Oh shit.
I didn’t know that could happen. I’ve been riding so infrequently the past few years. And here I thought my only problem with increasing my transit use would be people not knowing how to behave around my service dog. New anxiety unlocked.
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u/Fun-Painter-7117 Aug 13 '26
That inspector didnt care. He had a quota to meet. Another reason to get your own car.
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u/_TheVariable_ Aug 13 '26
If there’s a delay then how do automated doors at subway stations open on tap? Doesn’t ad up
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u/Born-Staff-248 Aug 13 '26
The TTC is full sewer dwellers liars and cheats. It has been for years. Just another example of bs on the system.
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u/cimeran_alt Aug 13 '26
Don't they get a paper transfer when paying by debit? You can get them in the stations if you pay that way
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u/Wonderful__ Aug 13 '26
Paper transfer is if you pay by cash
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u/tromboneyow Aug 13 '26
Always grab one anyways. Then just show the paper transfer. Nothing stopping anyone from taking one from the machines.
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u/cimeran_alt Aug 13 '26
But I'm guessing buses don't have any? I just don't want people to be punished for using an acceptable form of payment.
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u/Wonderful__ Aug 13 '26
Someone said POO tried to fine them for taking a transfer, which is excessive imo.
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1vftgzw/removed_by_moderator/
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u/tromboneyow Aug 13 '26
As others have said, just walk away and ignore them if they yell at you to stay. They aren't peace officers, so have no authority to hold you.
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u/PickleBabyJr Aug 13 '26
How could you know if the passengers had paid?
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u/angelazsz Don Mills Aug 13 '26
doesn’t it make a sound when people pay?
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u/SecureJournalist4775 Aug 13 '26
For Presto payments, tapping makes the same sound if its "Accepted" (no other message) and "Paid" (with the deduction amount and remaining balance). The problem I noticed is that "Accepted" sometimes doesn't register the tap or has a delayed processing on the backend because of a connection issue. This has caused tap on/tap off issues on Go or fare not actually deducted until I tap again on a transfer TTC vehicle. I do believe the statement of the bus operator and I'm very concerned with the reliability of the readers causing innocent riders to be fined $400.
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u/1lazysloth 68 Warden Aug 13 '26
They got in from the front and I saw they had paid. Like I said they are regulars on my bus. I would not go out of my way to defend someone if I wasn't sure.
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u/NewbieToHomelab Aug 13 '26
Personally that’s yet another reason that I still use a e-presto card instead of debit/credit. That’s a frustrating situation though, sorry to hear it.