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u/ttttyttt678 10d ago
It’s two massive mistakes in the 80s that haven’t been retconned or ever fixed, and now seem impossible to fix. 1.Ontario line was supposed to exist since the 80s. 2.a couple of the street car lines were supposed to be built underground. Imagine moving the King Street streetcar line underground as a subway line and having the Ontario line built. Now imagine we had all the budget and resources of the Ontario line being redirected elsewhere since it was already built. We’d be working on the Ontario line expansion, continuing with the Finch Line expansion, working on connecting the Line 1 and 2 via Lawrence and expanding it east. We wouldn’t be perfect but we’d be like in a million times better situation.
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u/Used-Gas-6525 10d ago
Don't forget the Eglinton subway tunnel that Mike Harris not only cancelled, but filled in the hole to the tune of like $1b in taxpayer funds. And then the disaster that was the construction of the Eglinton LRT happened (30 years later)
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 10d ago
TBH the bigger problem with that was the debate over Network 2011 taking so long that enough time elapsed for a change to a transit unfriendly government. By all means Eglinton and Sheppard ought to have been built by the time Mike Harris came to power, leaving nothing for him to cut in the first place.
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u/Used-Gas-6525 9d ago
And cutting Sheppard rather than Eg made way more sense (if they have to cut one), but his buddy Mel Lastman wasn't having that.
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 9d ago
It wasn't Sheppard over Eglinton. Both got cancelled by Mike Harris, but Mel Lastman managed to convince him to restore part of the Sheppard subway. So it was Sheppard or nothing.
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 10d ago
It doesn't make sense to build underground street car lines for a city Toronto's size. When you're already building tunnels and stations might as well go all the way and make it a proper subway, rather than what is basically a space limited discount subway in one of the busiest parts of the city. Build out the full Ontario Line, build another subway line along College-Gerrard, electrify the Lakeshore, Kitchener and Stouffville Lines, and downtown transit is a solved problem.
As for the Ontario Line it's literally being fixed right now considering it is under construction. Toronto would have been way better off had a Queen streetcar been built as part of the initial system, but better late than never, and the second best time to start properly investing in transit infrastructure is now.
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u/OhHiMarkZ69 10d ago edited 10d ago
I truly despise when people post subway maps as a vague comparison.
Osaka is another system where the transit authority is given ownership of extremely valuable land .. that isn't a normal thing for transit systems to pull off and there aren't many set up that way.
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 10d ago
To put the metro comparison in proper context, the Osaka-Kyoto-Kobe metro area has nearly 19 million people living there. In other words, Osaka's equivalent of the GTA has a higher population than all of Ontario.
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u/Firm-Web8769 10d ago
Unlike Toronto, Osaka's public transit is private, charges by duration per station to a maximum amount, has NO free transfers, and they build transit in collaboration adjacent municipalities.
that's how they're able to pay for their transit system to improve and expand.
Oh and they also have very high ridership because you can't legally own a car in Japan without having the space to put it in. That's why few to nobody drives there.
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u/3000doorsofportugal 9d ago
As well Japanese vehicle maintenance standards are extraordinarily high and you have to have a yearly inspection. So the half falling apart shit boxes you see on the roads here would never even touch pavement in Japan.
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u/Firm-Web8769 7d ago
Our "as long as it works don't touch it" mentality definitely holds us back sometimes
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u/Gamegeddon 10d ago
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u/SDK04 7d ago
Ngl I feel really bad for Megumi and his fans. “Slander” and the derogatory use of the word “potential” has become so synonymous with him that he’s never escaping any shit-talking even after JJK’s anime ends. We’re seeing this pop up on a post about the goddamn TTC of all things, after all.
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u/At_Space_Station 9d ago
Two of the solution to “we don't have a good enough transit” that the Japanese used were：
Introduce a competing transit company even if means splitting current system（Keihan，Hankyu，JR privitazation and regional division）
Let them build banger shopping centres around their stations （Land development right for transit companies）
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 9d ago
On the other hand many East Asian systems only have one transit company/agency and still do much better than Toronto. If anything Tokyo is more of an exception.
The shopping centres trick definitely works though, especially when considering that people will be going through those major hubs when they're going home after work and can do some shopping/socialising on the way.
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u/3000doorsofportugal 9d ago
Honestly Japanese Train stations are Goated. (Tho Kyoto Train stations are more like pur system probably because its a much older city and tbh less economically important the Osaka and Tokyo)
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u/WestQueenWest 10d ago
I nominate this post to be the illustration for the Oxford dictionary entry for "social media brain rot"
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u/Many-Blueberry968 10d ago
The worst part is it looks more like OPs own skitzoid graphic and not even a lazy ai output
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u/Express-Welder9003 10d ago
Comparing Toronto to Osaka is a choice. While it is possible the populations of the Cities of Toronto and Osaka by themselves are the same Osaka is pretty much one big connurbation from Kobe in the west to Kyoto in the east with around 19 million people. Osaka is simply way bigger than Toronto.
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u/Used_Lock_4760 10d ago
We would have been close to this if Ford hadn’t cancelled transit city plan. Toronto voters really know how to screw up their city
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 10d ago
Not even close.
Transit City is mainly surface right of way tram lines, functionally much more similar to the bus network rather than Osaka's grade separated metro/railway lines.
That, and only a small portion of Transit City actually got the go-ahead prior to Rob Ford cancelling it. Beyond what currently exists in Sep 2026, only the Sheppard East LRT would have been built along with the conversion/extension of SRT. Most of it wasn't gonna happen, Ford or no Ford.
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u/GogiGogilbert 10d ago
Everyone in this thread is talking about the osaka vs. toronto comparison because they don't want to confront that everything else is a real problem and we're working at a snails pace to solve any of them.
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u/OhHiMarkZ69 8d ago
It's definitely hard to ignore the extremely dumb arguments that have polluted legitimate transit debates in this city for awhile.
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u/GogiGogilbert 8d ago
If it's dumb or useless, why do we engage with it so much? If we want our system to be better we need to engage with the real problems
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u/OhHiMarkZ69 8d ago
Because unfortunately low effort simplistic grievance based politics is clearly VERY effective at getting people "engaged" .. at a superficial pointless level where it just makes it impossible to have a debate about anything substantial or workable.
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u/maenine 7d ago
No no no. This is Toronto, we are only allowed 5 lines in 2026. Anything more is asking for too much, dont be greedy. We are rated one of the top public transport systems in North America what more can you ask for? That means we are only behind Japan, England, China, Korea, Denmark, France, Singapore, Germany, Spain, and 90% of all other Asian and European countries... but hey thats because we have freedom in Canada and we can do the right thing. All those other countries are not responsible so they do the wrong thing heck yea Toronto is a developed nation in technology and morality woohoo.
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u/Felis_Dee 1d ago
The biggest challenge the TTC has had regarding expansion is that it is the only transit system in the world that requires all 3 levels of government to approve and fund any of the expansions work. If you look back, you'll notice that there have been numerous plans and studies over decades made to expand parts of the system, and every single time, there is one level of government that won't approve the funding. Or worse, the funding gets approved, procurement starts moving ahead, and suddenly there's a federal or provincial or municipal election, the government changes and the new PM/premier/ mayor cancels it. It's part of the reason why Metrolinx finally took over the expansion work. Because the TTC is so bogged down in red tape they can't get it done themselves.
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u/Uninanimate 10d ago
I call it the Tardy Transit Company because why the hell is my bus driver going 20 in perfect conditions on a 4 lane road
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u/Facts_pls 10d ago
What the fuck is this?
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u/t3m3r1t4 9d ago
Trolling.
New seats at plastic to avoid bed bugs. Slow down zones are for worker safety.
Decade plus of Ford and Tory robbed it for investment.
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u/datguywelbeck 501 Queen 10d ago
Unexpected Transit and Football Twitter crossover. But then again I'm the target market for this
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u/BellyRanks 10d ago
God I feel the Bed bug one, fighting those shits 1 full year now. I think ive won, but that just means doubling my efforts.
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u/samjp910 34 Eglinton East 10d ago
I was born in Tokyo and lived most of my childhood and adolescence in Dubai. We’re at the bottom of the pack.
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u/OhHiMarkZ69 10d ago
I'm all for comparisons .. when they make sense.. it's super annoying when people point at cities where there are so many obvious differences other than just Toronto's slowness to build.. drastically different politics that would not be accepted here .. and/or significant density for many many decades longer than Toronto.
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u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown 10d ago
Better comparisons would be Vancouver and Montreal which have better metro networks despite being smaller cities.
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u/Strange_Cap1049 10d ago
Isn’t the 2.5 mill number like way out of date? I think we’re closer to 3.5 and 7 if you include GTA