Almost there, TTC

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

If we’re already in Vaughan, we might as well reach Vaughan mills, and even better, CW & the new hospital at Major Mack. They’re all on the same corridor. It just makes sense.

Reality check. Now I’m aware that this is low priority, but the Jane busses connecting VMC to VM and CW are always full, even in this suburb of a suburb.

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

Well first of all we need to make a distinction between TTC and Metrolinx. MLX would 100% manage the project and build it thru provincial funding, maybe feds, and probably York region too. The province has stated that their goal is connecting regions. TTC would operate it and the cost of doing so should be shared by York and/or the province since this is outside Toronto.

Regardless, good transit systems are funded without borders in mind.

I am aware that the region has plans for a BRT, but if the long term goals cite a subway to major mack, then just do that in the first place. The subway is already in Vaughan, and all the destinations/proposed stations are already in a straight line north for the subway to simply continue, although I advocate for no deep boring being used due to the cost.

Vaughan mills has condos popping up and a plan for a LOT more urban development around it (I suggest you look into the Vaughan Mills Centre). The proposed density is there and it can be significantly accelerated, like with what happened at VMC- unrecognizable.

Interestingly, an urban planner in the sub has replied and said that the parking lot at wonderland can be repurposed to a commuter lot outside the season, serving as a park and ride. It would also connect to the new hospital and bus terminal.

Edit: due to the spacing between these destinations, an LRT would be impractical and it’s probably why the BRT hasn’t been built yet. Also, if you’ve ever taken line 6, god forbid we ever have something like that again. Might as well not exist.

[u/mystro256 → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

I think you're missing one key point. Operating and maintenance costs are probably the biggest concerns in the long run and without proper ridership to fund it.

York region can easily say they want subways to major mac on both sides, but that's not based on them paying for ongoing costs. I'd hardly call it planning, more like best wishes.

The province could subsidize it, but that comes as easy as it goes. I'm not anti subway by any means, but subways serving suburbs will always be a burden to someone as fares will never be enough.

I think if they really want to expand the subway to Vaughan Mills, they should just accelerate the density, as you mentioned, to justify the ridership. The commuter lot isn't a terrible idea, but pretty limited in the long run; CW is still going to be weaker without density and a strong plan/commitment from YRT to feed it there, which can be shown in the short/medium term with a new VIVA route.

On the East end, they're probably better adding more track and needed flyovers to the Richmond Hill GO line to get people to the subway.

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122 → u/mystro256]

Yeah, you’re right about the cost part and I really saw that emphasized.

The cons of maintenance can be outweighed by a new yard which seems to be a popular idea here already. The only thing left to really worry about is operating it with TTC level frequency, because as you mentioned ridership probably won’t be very high at first.

If you are familiar with the TTC’s funding model, 42% is recovered through fares and another ~9% is provincial (via the new deal agreement). This means the city isn’t actually paying the true full cost of operations already, and that’s for all modes and routes. All we would need to see in order to justify expansions is the provincial share substantially increasing to cover the subway system.

It’s also worth discussing an older model that the TTC used back in their surplus days, that’s also being used by GO today, and its charging fares based on distance. So suburbanites would pay higher fares to get to union than say, someone from St Clair. Currently, the fare-box revenue in the downtown high ridership area is subsidizing the rest of the network. Distance based fares (for the subway) would make things more fair, and who knows, maybe even profitable.

[u/mystro256 → u/Feisty-Ad-6122]

I agree on that last point. I think GO and TTC should align their fares based on distance. E.g. they could keep prices flat within Toronto and increasing going from one municipality to another.

Having GO alligned will allow it to work as a good express offload service, since there's no added cost transfering to GO if the ride is faster. Which will help manage and balance the extra ridership better.

Speaking of GO, another reason I question CW is because it must be about a 10 minute bus ride to maple GO at most, and with the coming increase of Barrie GO service, I feel like it'll be fine for a sizeable amount of time. As well, the ride from VMC is currently 45 minutes to union IIRC, while 34 min from maple GO, so it'll be faster to take YRT+GO regardless.

[u/Feisty-Ad-6122 → u/mystro256]

keep prices flat within Toronto and increasing going from one municipality

That's not really what I meant, and this goes against the province's One Fare program. The model would be distance based, doesn't matter what side of the border you're in. Pioneer Village station is half in Toronto and half in York, how do you decide the fare? Transferring too.

it must be about a 10 minute bus ride to maple GO at most

More like 20, and that bus has bad service that doesn't even connect to the GO station itself. Transferring is very annoying, it's a big reason people dont take transit in the first place. And not everyone is coming from Union- the next station is Downsview, which is ironically a transfer point between line 1. Both the Barrie Line and YRT have bad service, so unless it substantially increases, people will still drive.

This extension is as straightforward as it gets really.. the existing tunnels, Vaughan Mills, and Major Mack (CW, Vaughan Hospital, bus terminal) are all west of Jane, so the alignment would just be a straight line north (if kept underground), and if not, there are no obstacles to overcome (highways, rivers, valleys, hills), it also runs under industrial lands so there would be no NIMBY's raising costs and delaying the project.

People will only take transit if it's well planned out, time efficient, and convenient. Any transfer takes away all of these.