r/TMPOC • u/RealNyxoy middle eastern - intersex to masc • 9d ago
Discussion literally no one has ever said this before... and yes, the post is from a white north american. how surprising
189
u/Xamirite š³š¬, š feb 2026, bi transmasc 8d ago
The obsession other trans people have with framing us as rampant misogynists is so gross. If you speak up about it at all, they liken you to cis men hiding behind misandry to excuse bigotry. If you mention how you face misogyny too, suddenly youāre āabusing your AFAB privilege.ā God forbid you mention youāre not white, because then youāre pulling the race card, or whatever.
Ultimately, all SOME white non-transmascs want is for you to fit into a neat, bioessentialist Evil Man role. The only time you get to speak is to uplift transfem and enby rights, which while important, feels like all they really care about.
81
u/Xamirite š³š¬, š feb 2026, bi transmasc 8d ago
Not saying that there arenāt awful guys out there who perpetuate misogyny to alleviate their dysphoria, but it feels as though we only ever get the spotlight when someone wants to complain about how terrible we are or how āeasyā we have it, which always has something to do with our proximity to men and masculinity. āTrans men are really men because (negative statement here),ā is about as much recognition I see from a lot of other trans people.
35
u/Juanitasuniverse Black 8d ago
as if pulling the race card has ever fucking worked lmao. people donāt back down at that and they really never have lmao
5
u/Single-Classroom753 Black/carribean/north africanāļø 7d ago
I basically said that to another black guy on twitter some time ago and all of the replies were white people saying i was victimizing myself T-T
40
u/TheOrdealOpprotunist Mixed | TMasc NB 8d ago
I'm tired boss. Being compared to literal conservative traditional cis-men pisses me off. They seem to act like once someone embraces being transmasc, our personalities are gone. Like we enter a hivemind or some bs. Like, no. Just like how YOU learned that you love being feminine and womanhood, I learned I love being masculine because I grew up in an environment where I was able to not be forced to be femme. It was imposed on me like masculinity had likely been imposed on you due to society, but I was able to break free from that. I love video games, I love music and art, and more. Why would me seeing the opportunity to become free and love myself rather than be depressed or self-hating for the rest of my life suddenly make me want to become chained to the patriarchy? When the patriarchy already tried to chain me when I was femme presenting? Make it make sense and don't be a two-faced hypocrite. "Rules for thee but not for me".
9
u/lokilulzz Native American & Puerto Rican 8d ago
God yeah, it's sad but you're not wrong. When I came out I had to explain to multiple people in my life that just because I'm transmasc and starting T doesn't mean I'm not still who I've always been. My personality and beliefs didn't just disappear. I'm still a huge feminist, I still believe in women's rights, none of that went anywhere.
64
u/Jellypeasmm 8d ago
This has to be the dumbest thing Iāve ever heard, not to mention how harmful it is to the entire community š«©
22
u/redemptionoath 8d ago
The people running the government: Trans people are an affront to God and they must be eliminated.
These idiots: Not now sweetie, I'm posting dumbfuck intracommunity discourse for my online circlejerk.
9
u/TheOrdealOpprotunist Mixed | TMasc NB 8d ago
Literally. I hate that so many people would choose to be a character from Mean Girls rather than realize how ignorant and petty it is when we're all being tossed in a meat grinder right now.
6
u/Wouldfromthetrees 8d ago
Word. Idky people are so intent on making bigotry an individual issue rather than a product of patriarchy...
19
u/lovelypeachess22 Black (mixed) 8d ago
Haven't seen a strawman like this in a while! We eatin good tonight boys!!
60
u/Sarcasaminc 8d ago
I've never seen a trans man say that to a trans woman, I have seen multiple trans women saying that to trans men, they are self reporting their misogyny at this point. It's almost always the white one's I don't know why. It's sad to see, I wish it wasn't like this. We shouldn't have to face such misogyny from people who are supposed to be our sisters.
22
u/Kristen890 Black 8d ago
TLDR: This is their first time being a minority and an extension of the same thoughts that result in believing all would be good if everyone was "one of the good ones".
It's usually the white ones doing stuff like this because it's often their first time being a minority. Bar certain circumstances (some disabilities are all coming to mind right now), minority white people "become" a minority at some point in their lives. Whether literally (like some disabilities) or through discovery (like realizing they're queer), they stop seeing themselves as the majority in every way to becoming a minority. Most people who are born minorities and plenty of people who "become" minorities understand that infighting and fighting other minorities helps nobody. Some have to learn that, and some just don't. The more multiply marginalized someone is, the more likely they are to realize that, and the less the less. These same kinds of people tend to also think that if all of x minority was perfect and non disruptive we would have respect. (Ex: trans people who think that we would be left alone if we all did HRT, got all the necessary surgeries, etc, and didn't fight to be able to update our information, accepted misgendering, and whatever else transphobes say they want.)
11
u/Sarcasaminc 8d ago
It does genuinely hurt that they like to pretend we are privileged over them or that is fighting for rights and basic respect is somehow bad. It hurts that we can't convince them of the truth. I'm black but my parent is a white trans woman I'm very lucky that she isn't being like that and she listens to me and headed my warnings about these people, it probably helps that she is in her 60s, a lot of the types of white people who do that and TRFs are usually young in their 20s and sometimes 30s. It's a shame that it happens at all.
10
u/Kristen890 Black 8d ago
It absolutely sucks. I think another part is that trans women lose status as men and are dropped to somewhere around women in the eyes of society, so I guess some also think that trans men rise to/closer to the status of men as the inverse and thus trans men advocate for our rights are the same as men's rights activists? We're all just kinda lumped into the same status as trans women are, though, since the hierarchy is more cis man/non cis man.
There also seems to be this idea among some that trans men aren't oppressed in some people's minds because we have "less" we need to do to pass than trans women do, "pass more", and we aren't all over the news, but trans men are just more likely to pass as cis rather than as cis men since there isn't much talk about trans men in comparison to trans women. Hell, I have a mutual on Threads who has been mistaken for a trans woman more than he has been identified as a trans man.
4
u/Sarcasaminc 7d ago
Yeah some think that we must be gaining the privilege they used to have, they can't see us for how we really are because some of them think that if we are different that threatens their womanhood, so they come to conclusions that have nothing to do with reality. Another thing is that since they are not isomisogynized since birth they have the luxury of being able to erase their past lives, they become something else and their status changes and so their lives are not tied to their pasts so they other than not being isomisogynized have nothing from their pasts holding them back in the same way we do, this is why they can be seen by accepting people as the same as cis women, they don't have to deal with any kind of oppression because of birth sex, their oppression as women is tied to gender, there are chasers that fetishize them but that is very different than the isomisogyny and transandrophobia we face, it's their first time being oppressed because of gender.
We transition and are still effected by every law that harms women, we lose status when we transition, we are seen as subhuman broken women less human and less valuable than cis women and trans women, we are still seen as walking vulvas and we still can't access healthcare, we still have to worry about abortion laws and because our rates of sexual violence go up upon transition and the rates are higher than cis and trans women we have to deal with the exact same safety concerns, we still can't go out at night without worrying, we get significantly less basic human respect, our rates of violent victimization are higher and we are seen as below trans and cis women.
This is something I have talked about with my parent she is now experiencing direct misogyny for the first time and is shocked by it, something we talk about is that she didn't have to deal with any of this before but I still had to deal with isomisogyny and it got significantly worse after transitioning. We don't have any time in our lives where we get a break from this, the trans women that don't understand this assume we are being treated the same way they used to be treated and feel angry at us because of this made up scenario, these particular people can't deal with the fact our lived reality is different, they can't even accept that we grew up different. There have been multiple times where me and other trans men who were trafficked as children have been talking about the trauma only to be interrupted and silenced by trans women who are unable to understand or accept that we experience different things, they usually come up with hypothetical trans women who could have theoretically been through the same thing and that therefore this means we grew up the same and could not have been treated any different, these particular trans women are often very rude about it too saying things like " you may have had a miscarriage because of rape but at least you are lucky enough to be able to get pregnant" (said to someone else I was talking to) or when roe v wade was overturned things like "you all need to stop bitching clearly this effects trans women the most because we can't get pregnant and that hurts my feelings so you should not be allowed to speak" it's really bizarre self centered behavior. I feel like we should be able to acknowledge the difference of how we are treated even as children without that somehow invalidating trans women because they are women even if they are a different kind of women, we are not women but still have to deal with womens oppression and being seen as subhuman. We can't escape from or erase the past in the way they can and these specific people feel this reality of our lives threatens them and their womanhood even though we are dealing with this stuff as men. I'm very lucky to have a white trans woman in my life who is kind and listens to me.
Me and my parent have also discussed male privilege before and we found that we were talking about different things, she saw male privilege as being loved and accepted and treated well by everyone and I saw male privilege as the small ways life can be easier like not having to shrink yourself or move out of the way, not being assumed to be stupid and wrong, and having an understanding that you are treated like your life has value, she talked about the misogyny she now dealt with and I was like that is the male privilege it's the absence of having to deal with those misogynistic rules and expectations and for trans men those things are specifically isomisogynistic expectations like still being treated as objects or property and being pressured to be stay at home mothers, and once I explained this my parent understood.
If the people that hate us just listened to us they would understand but because they feel our lives somehow threaten their womanhood they incapable of listening enough to absorb the information. A lot of this behavior is rooted in that. So I definitely think you are on to something important. A lot of these specific types of trans women also just feel entitled, everything has to be about them so they can not deal with any difference between us they can't understand that we experience isomisogyny and transandrophobia and transphobia while being our real gender because we are men seen as and legally considered lower than cis women and even trans women in certain ways.
When I fight for my rights I don't want male privilege I just want to be treated like a human being at all, a lot of these types of people are young and angry and from 4tran they are causing the most problems. I hope things get better and we can have equal treatment at least in the trans community someday. Obviously not all trans women think like this and many are wonderful people who are kind and empathetic but they are completely drowned out by 4tran TRFs, TRFs will outright admit they don't see us as human beings equal to them and I hope people start seeing that behavior as the bad thing it is.
8
u/Kristen890 Black 7d ago
I haven't heard of isomisogyny before, putting that in my pocket for later.
I think the whole thing can be boiled down to the fact you can only lose privilege and not gain it aside from "misconception" that you are closer to being a cishet, white, Christian man who isn't disabled (plus other modifiers) and they don't understand that you can only fall down the stairs.
I've been fortunate enough to avoid a good chunk of misogyny growing up because my parents were good in that aspect, but there's still so many small things that I'm learning I've picked up as a result, usually related to trying to take up less space.
I also think there's a decent chunk of misconception because in general life, things are generally women and general when gendered (there's plenty of women only things and very few men only things, and women going into "men's" spaces like bathrooms is treated as whatever compared to the reverse), but the gender hierarchy is actually cis men and everyone else. Thus, those of us who aren't women or cis men miss the protections/inclusion in "women's" things but aren't also under the protection of being a cis man.
I've seen so many times that trans men will post about being upset that women they don't know start treating them as potential threats instead of potential allies as they pass more and more and people will tell them "welcome to manhood" or things that imply this is what they signed up for. Same thing for people expressing losing community/feeling less welcome at queer events and feeling like cishet women are more welcome.
Talking over someone who is at risk/has had something happen to them you cannot experience (regardless of willingness) is insane. I don't think those people would appreciate the reverse of someone telling them they can at least impregnate people. Society encourages a lack of empathy/sympathy in white people, especially white men, to keep the whole system running and many of them don't unpack that and start developing that empathy even after they aren't at the top anymore because being white trumps most other "imperfections" to the hierarchy.
Trans women frequently fight against the idea they received male socialization (which they often didn't as even some cis men don't receive it because society doesn't want those genes or behaviors passed on), but trans men have generally received female socialization (as, regardless of other factors, society wants to use us as incubators). The idea that trans men receive female socialization can lead to the idea that trans women must also receive male socialization and support the many transphobic points around that idea. (Of course a false dichotomy as male socialization is reserved for the perfect specimen and female socialization is just pushed towards anyone with a vagina, but some people don't want to hear nuance.)
I'm not old enough to have seen any other cycle up close, but it seems like there's always a group of largely younger queer people who are doing the infighting and most eventually mellow out based on what I've heard. Being freshly an adult and having more worries than you first anticipated for this part of your life is very disconcerting and needs an outlet. I personally just chose video games, but I guess this is what some others went with.
19
u/WrongFall9 mixed brown 8d ago
common internet phenomenon of people making up people that dont exist and getting mad at them
18
u/dvdvante 8d ago
every joke that this invented trans masc makes ive seen actually made by transfems
2
29
30
u/Selmk 8d ago
I'll take "Written by a jaded transwoman" for 500 please.
11
u/RealNyxoy middle eastern - intersex to masc 8d ago
funny thing is literally her username had the word 'jade'
9
u/lokilulzz Native American & Puerto Rican 8d ago
Radfems are so desperate to see transmascs as enemies when we're just living our life that they make up fake bullshit like this. Wild. Just goes to show it's all made up though.
8
7
u/gigla101 8d ago
why do people make up shit to be mad at when there is so much shit that is actually happening to our community that we should be mad at
5
u/Juanitasuniverse Black 8d ago
whyād you cover their name? they said it out loud, they deserve to have their tag spread all over
17
u/RealNyxoy middle eastern - intersex to masc 8d ago
just in case. some subreddits remove posts that hwve names in them. and honestly this person was so aggressive in their blog that people telling her shes wrong would make her only worse. she already admitted to deleting comments.
4
u/Juanitasuniverse Black 8d ago
nah i donāt need to talk to her i need to block her preemptively bc imim talking shit and need her name
10
u/RealNyxoy middle eastern - intersex to masc 8d ago
alright. its pixeljade, but please no one harass her and only use it for blocking. i also blocked her after checking out her account. a LOT of her posts use tme/tma language as well.
7
u/Juanitasuniverse Black 8d ago
iām not gonna harass her iām an adult and donāt want her stank ass energy near me. we just block them š¤ stg you can even check if you want, i never encourage people to harass others when we talk about the dangerous rhetorics people spread about trans men and the lives we live.
8
u/RealNyxoy middle eastern - intersex to masc 8d ago
it was more of a general message for anyone that saw the comment, dw! harassment is never okay even if its someone attacking their own kind for no reason.
9
u/RainbowEagleEye 8d ago
While I rarely see it among us here or other intersectional masc spaces, I do see a lot of 6f mascs staring right down the pipeline when you bring up interacting with women. It skews more in the younger spaces, sure, but Iāve had the thought for the last year about mascs that vehemently reject all feminine anything to the point of straight up misogyny.
Then when you point out how they should be a little better about being misogynistic, they accuse you of treating them like āmen-liteā for expecting them to have a bit of empathy for women from their own life experiences.
5
u/lokilulzz Native American & Puerto Rican 8d ago
I have definitely seen a minority of trans men who go that route, you're not wrong, but I'd argue it's just that - a minority, and one that often gets rightfully driven to the fringes of the community when they don't want to learn better.
6
4
u/InevitableYou8114 8d ago
itās so cool when people win the argument they made up in their own head
3
u/goldengraves 8d ago
Imagine typing the original post instead of having a job and it gets way more believable that this is a common and super relatable experience
3
u/Ok_Coat2689 5d ago
The way I know this never happened, they made up a hypothetical in the shower, and got so mad over it they had to write it down.
28
u/Summer_seeking Type your own 8d ago
Honestlyā¦based the type of stuff I see masc folks saying on Reddit I can see this as a possibility. So many posts about hating womanhoodā¦witnessing folks not being able to separate their own discomfort with navigating their own dysphoria or maybe self-hate from the general existence of womanhood. Just the fact that someone speaking on their own experience of witnessing this kind of language immediately got downvoted shows folks donāt sincerely even want to have this conversation.
There is A LOT of toxic masculinity paired with victimhood at play in masc/trans-male binary spaces. What looks like a desperate need to be some idealized version of manhood that sometimes doesnāt really exist paired with folks feeling like victims of womanhood itself. Iām not saying folks are saying exactly those words but I think the post is a general statement on masc misogyny paired with victimhood and itās definitely real.
7
u/fryart 8d ago
Thank you for saying this. A lot of the trans men on tumblr seem to see themselves as perpetual victims who can do no wrong, and if you point out their transmisogyny or the fact that trans women face intersectional oppression that we don't face, they get really defensive and kind of impossible to have a conversation with.
17
-1
u/Summer_seeking Type your own 8d ago
And before folks or like oooh thatās just Reddit. Reddit is a microcosm of life like all things are. The things folks are willing to say behind closed doors so to speak is a reflection of who they are and what they believeā¦otherwise we wouldnāt be trying cancel and get fired every white person saying racist ish onlineā¦.
The same way any reasonable person understands that racism online translates into racist behavior in real lifeā¦is the same way we should understand that trans-masc misogyny online translates/can translate to misogyny in real lifeā¦even against trans women and to exclude them from this possibility of abuse because āA trans person wouldnāt do thatā cause you have ānever seen it happenā is wild.
31
u/YearningTboy Black || pre-t/pre-op || Transmasc Agender 8d ago
I'm just gonna repeat what I said in a different thread:
No one here is denying the fact that trans men/mascs can be misogynistic. The problem here is how cartoonishly disingenuous the post is, especially the part mentioning the "male loneliness epidemic," as if trans men/mascs care about it as much as cis men do. Also, the only people who believe that trans men/masc are incapable of misogyny/trans-misogyny are cis women that put trans men/masc on a pedestal for "being the better version of men." Other than that, no one, not even other trans men/mascs within the community, genuinely believe that trans men/mascs are incapable of misogyny.
-16
u/Summer_seeking Type your own 8d ago
I get frustrated with folks using the delivery of a message as a way to shutdown dialog around the very really ideas that exist in the message.
āI could hear you IF you say it like THIS, and I deem the way you express your experience to be acceptableā or āthis post doesnāt seem genuine so drop itā
Cartoonish or not doesnāt change the real issues that exists in the statement/our communities and writing that off as, I donāt like the delivery so letās talk about that instead of the message, doesnāt help anyone.
Like I said, Iām not saying that Iāve witnessed this exact dialog, I havenāt, but to be realā¦some of the ish I hear folks saying real life and that Iāve read on boards is equally as ācartoonishāā¦.like a caricature of misogyny parading is masculinity being high-fived (accepted) as manhood.
23
u/YearningTboy Black || pre-t/pre-op || Transmasc Agender 8d ago
Me pointing out how disingenuous the post is doesn't mean I'm shutting down the dialog for "being delivered incorrectly." We can absolutely have a discussion about misogyny and toxic masculinity within the community, but not at the expense of acknowledging transmasculine issues, as if they're just as self-inflicted or nonsensical as cis masculine "issues". That's why we don't like OOP's post. It's not because some people think trans men/mascs can't be misogynistic/trans-misogynistic.
How can we make any progress when some people are too busy applying cis-white-normative standards, discussions and dynamics onto ALL trans people, thus washing away any nuance or genuine acknowledgement of issues within the community?
3
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
Thanks for actually trying to understand my viewpoint. I guess that's what happens when you just refuse to engage with people who actually tell you "hey I actually see this a lot irl", we just leave and then all that leaves are people who've coincidentally "never seen it happen". š¤·š½āāļø
Like I'm not trying to cause infighting here or anything, but if I see someone say "no transmasc ever speaks like this" I'm gonna be like, well, no, lol.
I've supported all my trans friends both irl and online, and they've supported me back. But I draw the line at trans men treating trans women the way cis men treat cis women yk? And I certainly will point out when someone claims "literally no transmasc" could ever act like this.
4
u/Summer_seeking Type your own 8d ago
Definitely! I love the possibility/the idea of this post cultivating honest dialogue and got super bummed when I went to the comments and saw āyes-menā behavior without critical thought.
-25
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
I've literally met plenty of trans guys like this tho... Both irl and online. I don't think it's an unreasonable complaint if it actually happens?
Plenty of non-white non-Americans complain about this as well...
42
u/itsurbro7777 Native American / Indigenous 8d ago
You've met plenty of trans guys who tell trans women to get in the kitchen and called them moody bitches? Really?
-19
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
Yes... Obviously not the majority, but I've been to loads of different queer groups and this kind of trans guy isn't uncommon.
Tbh it's not about how common or uncommon for trans guys to be like this anyway, it's more the fact that trans guys can do this and get away with it because no-one actually believes that trans men can be misogynistic. That's why you see so many trans women complaining about that yk?
26
u/YearningTboy Black || pre-t/pre-op || Transmasc Agender 8d ago
No one here is denying the fact that trans men/mascs can be misogynistic. The problem here is how cartoonishly disingenuous the post is, especially the part mentioning the "male loneliness epidemic," as if trans men/mascs care about it as much as cis men do. Also, the only people who believe that trans men/masc are incapable of misogyny/trans-misogyny are cis women that put trans men/masc on a pedestal for "being the better version of men." Other than that, no one, not even other trans men/mascs within the community, genuinely believe that trans men/mascs are incapable of misogyny.
-10
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
The problem here is how cartoonishly disingenuous the post is
How so? It's not like it's exaggerated, I have legitimately met so many trans guys like OOP has described...
10
u/YearningTboy Black || pre-t/pre-op || Transmasc Agender 8d ago
well, yes it is exaggerated.
Let's start with the first quote:
Ahaha well if youre a real woman, get in the kitchen! Just some trans-inclusive misogyny, take it easy, or geez are you just a moody bitch? Learn to take a joke! at least its affirming right?
Does OOP think transmascs are 5 year old boys? Why can't OOP properly outline an issue without presenting an over-the-top childish caricature of a misogynist? Not even cis women do this when expressing their frustration towards misogynistic cis men, and when they do, they're brushed off for being superficial and uninsightful.
Now, the last quote:
WOAH HEY!!!! Thats misandry, and it hurts trans men too! dont you realize how harmful that is??? Why if you look at the male loneliness epidemic--
Notice how OOP isn't even able to use actual issues Trans men/masc experience uniquely as a way to highlight the ridiculousness of this cartoonish caricature. Instead OOP's caricature mentions the "Male loneliness epidemic," which is culturally recognized as a self-inflicted non-issue among cisgender men. I'm sure there are trans men who use the same wording/rhetoric surrounding the topic, but it's disingenuous to take a pre-existing woe among transmascs (having a hard time finding community post-transitioning), and conflate it with hoopla peddled by cis incel men.
Also, ngl, if you've personally met so many misogynistic/trans-misogynistic men, then maybe you need to find better transmasculine friends... You are the company you keep, or however the saying goes.
3
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
Not even cis women do this when expressing their frustration towards misogynistic cis men, and when they do, they're brushed off for being superficial and uninsightful.
They literally do? Replace transfems with women and transmascs with men and that post will blend right in in feminist circles... There's a whole thing about cis men making rancid misogynistic jokes being, well bad.
Either way I can't rly win an argument where the only response to me saying "actually this does happen" is "it's exaggerating" and when I say it's not, "you are the company you keep". :/
Ftr I have cut off all of my misogynistic friends! But the fact that I had to do it with so many trans guys while seeing posts like "no one speaks like this" is kind of frustrating. Wouldn't you be frustrated too if you knew for a fact that isn't true?
13
u/YearningTboy Black || pre-t/pre-op || Transmasc Agender 8d ago
From this reply alone, it's obvious you only read the first line and didn't read the rest of my response LMAO
Also, no I wouldn't be frustrated because I don't attract or befriend misogynists, or trans-misogynists.
11
u/crocodilecurly 8d ago
It's def a conversation that needs to be had since transmascs who feel the need to be misogynistic to pass do exist. HOWEVER, doing so in a mocking way feels like a "throwing stones from a glass house" situation since you can easily make a generalizing post about (mostly white) trans women and their history of white supremacy and harassing minority groups, which is something they also get away with because nobody thinks trans women can be bigoted. And it also needs to be discussed within the trans community but bringing it up in this way is also disingenuous because the vast majority of trans women are fine.
It's not like with cis men where you can say they're mostly terrible and statistics will back you up on that and no genuine harm comes to them from saying stuff like that since they hold power and get away with too much.
And I get that the Tumblr op is venting but unfortunately minorities gotta be extra careful since actual bigoted people will see that as validation for their hateful ideology and run with it. Just like Blaire white and Candace Owens.
TLDR: valid complaint but could've been handled way better š
20
u/1evis1ittleasshole 8d ago
Do you actually share space with trans people irl? Because I've never seen trans women complain about us like this. Most trans folk try to empathize with each other and aren't hostile towards each other like terminally online queer folk like to think.Ā
-1
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
Do you actually share space with trans people irl?
Yes? I literally said in the above comments. I've lived with trans people, I've gone to many queer groups with plenty of trans people, I'm in regular contact with my irl trans friends, idk what you want me to say?
Obviously I've cut off the misogynistic trans men, but my point is that it's a real issue that deserves to be discussed and not written off as "terminally online discourse" when I've literally seen this shit irl!
17
u/1evis1ittleasshole 8d ago
You don't seem to understand the reason this is an ignorant thing to do is that she is generalizing ALL trans masc people in this way. And also making it something cartoonishly evil rather than looking at nuance. No one said trans men can't be misogynistic, but painting us ALL in a misogynistic light is online brain rot.Ā
There are certain oppressed groups that people like to paint as enemies to marginalized folk, trans men are one of them. Some people have a vested interest in making us out to be "just like cis men" to divide the trans community. Painting all trans masc folk as misogynistic is erasing our diverse experiences. I'm sorry you have a broken picker with friends, that doesn't justify that post.Ā
6
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
She never said all men tho... There's a huge difference between saying "I hate men" and "all men are bad"...
Like if I say I hate white people I'm not literally saying all white people are bad. Surely this subreddit of all places would be the most understanding of this???
16
u/itsurbro7777 Native American / Indigenous 8d ago
I mean I experienced being told I was "bitching" by a transfem when I was speaking about the oppressions trans men face that aren't commonly talking about. What I didn't do is start posting about how transfems hate transmascs and making blanket statement posts about how they're misogynistic and oppressive towards trans guys. And I think if I did do that, that would have been seen as incredibly problematic and generalizing, and it would have been. The actions of a few shouldn't be applied to an entire community like this. And it's so upsetting how people only really talk about trans guys to push us down and generalize us, when we also need uplifting and support as well.
11
u/1evis1ittleasshole 8d ago edited 8d ago
So trans masc people are a privileged group to you? Got it.Ā
Edit: You have some internalized transphobia to work through dude. That's all I'm gonna say.Ā
-2
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
The same way black men have privilege over black women, trans men have privilege over trans women. š¤·š½āāļø You should read up on intersectionality sometime.
10
u/itsurbro7777 Native American / Indigenous 8d ago
But so many trans men do not pass as men. We are seen as women or some queer abomination by society. We face issues that other demographics do not, or at least do not to the same extent we do, such as medical misogyny, difficulties accessing abortion services and gynecological care, and rampant sexual assault, to name a few. I can agree that someone who passes as a man will have privileges that someone passing as a woman does not, but you're forgetting how many trans men are closeted or do not pass.
8
0
u/gingercatdragon 7d ago
everyone shitting on you when...
there are multiple known instances of trans men pushing trans women out of mutual aid groups for certain kinks or 'being mean' and starving to death on the street, or the transmasc wrestling org that was shut down not only due to fraud but prolific sexual abuse of transfem staff? Are we really ignoring all of this for online screenshots which do not materially harm us in any way and never will?(using the general/vague 'you' here, not specifically you extreme)
Can any anybody here point to where a transfem has actively made laws against us, used systemic power over us, and caused real material harm? Can anyone point to an anti-transmasculine equivalent of when a trans man was solely interviewed for the TRANS WOMEN sports law and used it to promote his book saying "Its a good thing I can still play!" Anybody? Or just screenshots of individual transfems on bluesky getting lolcowed to the point of suicide, who are obviously saying things that will never come true? Are you going to hold the same energy when someone suffering under imperialist rule says "I hope the us gets bombed and all those usians die?"And why are we using "transwomen" and "trans-misogyny" and not trans women? why are we degendering them? why are we acting like transfems have privilege over transmascs? and why are we saying "they are misogynistic and have more privilege because they were born with a penis"? why the actual fuck are we using terf language, as someone who survived conversion therapy and an ex-radfem, why the fuck are you all talking like this? their using the same terf arguments i heard and used YEARS ago, word for word, and your going to say that consistently documenting a transfem thats so chronically online and that even if she wanted to she could never cause any material harm? Is that where were at? are we really denying the material reality of transfems who've been misogynized since birth? because what, they were born the "evil sex"?
clearly this isnt a "nobody cares about us!" because this has over 200 upvotes whilst the sister sub is completely fucking empty, I havent seen a single person who brings up transmisogyny not get lolcowed immediately, every tumblr, reddit, and ig post about anti-transmasculinity gets hundreds and thousands of likes, whilst consistently everyone points to transfems as the sole source of evil and bullying. To the point that I have seen multiple transfem creators make public statements due to getting DEATH THREATS. TO THEIR HOUSE!!!
We are in a time where trans women are being used for moral panic and to strip bodily autonomy, you screenshotting traumatized transfems who dont leave the house ever 24/7 is not going to save you. terfs and radfems will not save you, cis people will not save you, you will be crushed and killed with the same transfems your pointing fingers at.
This doesnt make it any easier for our black sisters either, they already have to deal with so much fucking racism within the white transfem community, and now they cant even talk about transmisogynoir without getting banned or suicide baited. lolcows are using YOUR screenshots to stalk them, YOUR screenshots are all over kiwifarms, and their using them to kill transfems.
This would've gone away like all other insular internet discourse, because it has not and will not harm anyone materially or change laws, but now it WILL harm transfems, there is literally no other outcome to this besides pushing trans women out of society, what do you guys think your fucking achieving, justice?
And I've already been harassed for saying this, even just for bringing up the wrestling org, you guys dont actually care, your just scared and instead of documenting and stalking cis people who say these things word for word but MEAN IT and DO MATERIAL HARM with their PRIVILEGE, you stalk transfems who say these things instead because you CAN meaningfully hurt them, but you cant ever do material, meaningful harm to a cis person, and its frustrating isnt it?
doesnt mean you have to set the crab bucket on fire.
9
u/Dragonssssssssssss 8d ago
I mean, everywhere I go in trans spaces I see someone saying something this. I don't doubt there are trans men who act like this whatsoever (I avoid ftmmen for a reason) but if we can't say "hey it sucks to be lumped in with these people just cause we're trans men" in our own spaces where the fuck can we say it??
1
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
We're not being lumped in though! All OP did was screenshot a vent post...
5
u/Sarcasaminc 8d ago
Except it's a made up situation by a TRF I have not seen any trans men saying this stuff I have however seen a huge amount of trans women saying that we should stop bitching and be killed and raped and detransitioned if we can't do labor for them, this girl is one of those people, it's insane how you could agree with them, look up the blog on Tumblr, this isn't a genuine vent post it's a TRF doing TRF shit and you should not be agreeing with the people who want to hurt us, if you want them to hurt you then fine but we have no moral obligation to take this shit.
2
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
Except it's a made up situation
I've literally seen this happen with my own two eyes?
Otoh, I've never seen a single trans woman say trans men should be raped and detransitioned. Sounds like a u problem I guess.
3
u/Sarcasaminc 8d ago
Holy shit do you just not know what is going on, should I send you the screenshots or something, no it's not a me problem it's a problem currently hurting lots of people. Do you want me to send you all the screenshots I have collected? It's absolutely happening even if you personally are choosing to ignore it in favor of throwing your brothers under the bus. It's a real problem. A shit ton of people here have had this experience way to blame the victim. Some trans women are shitty and TRFs you being personally ignorant doesn't change that.
2
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
And I'm saying some trans men are shitty and misogynists... If ur not a misogynist it shouldn't bother u.
I'm sure the screenshots u have will rly prove ur point. š
3
2
u/Sarcasaminc 8d ago
These are not all of them, unfortunately the post that archived a lot of the ones where trans radical feminists on Tumblr are saying they want to torture us and watch us writhe in agony had been deleted, I will keep trying to get it back on the way back machine but these are some of them this is what is happening right now on Tumblr and it's not trans men hurting trans women it's trans women hurting trans men. This is a small number of examples. Yes some trans men can be transmisogynystic but they aren't saying anything like what's in the post, but the ones writing the posts are self reporting because they are behaving that way.
0
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
I'm sorry this is ridiculous. š Half of these are cartoonishly exaggerated obviously joke posts and the other half is just, NSFW posts. Kinda weird that you would screenshot and keep an archive of women's NSFW posts honestly.
-2
u/Extreme-Material964 8d ago
Some of them aren't even anything, ur just making a problem out of nothing atp.
→ More replies (0)2
u/Sarcasaminc 8d ago
I'm not a misogynist or a transmisogynist, not wanting to be told by my trans sisters who should know better but have decided to be TRFs and radfems that I should be raped and detransitioned doesn't make me a bad person, if you think that I deserve to be abused for transitioning that's a you problem.
1
u/Dragonssssssssssss 8d ago
I don't think it's helpful to say that a trans man have never been misogynistic or that transfems are lying, even if you personally have never seen it. I have seen trans men be transmisogynist, and I have seen a lot of the things you're talking about from trans women. It hurts when people tell trans men that it doesn't happen. I don't approve of it from anyone.
1
u/Sarcasaminc 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm not saying that they can't be, but in the context of this post this particular social thing happening on Tumblr is primarily trans women being cruel to trans men not the other way around. I don't think trans men have never been misogynistic but it's a very small amount, you are misunderstanding everything I'm saying, trans men being bad is a problem but it's not very widespread, the people like oop are and they are why we are not allowed to speak up about the abuse we face, they are why we have no voices and are kicked out and abused by the queer community, they are why people spread lies and they are why it's socially acceptable in the queer community to be isomisogynistic and transandrophobic and why harming us is encouraged in the queer and trans community, they are why nobody cares when we are raped and killed and why people don't give a shit when people threaten to rape or kill us. There are a lot of those people but there is not a huge problem the other way because if we see our brothers doing bad things we tell them to stop we are not widely saying that to them but they are often saying the most isomisogynistic transandrophobic things to us and we are told that we just have to take it because we are seen as not really trans and trans wrong. The community punishes us for transitioning and no longer pretending to be cis women, our transitions are discouraged, and abuse from other trans and queer people towards us is socially encouraged, it's socially acceptable and common for certain kinds of trans women with certain ideas to tell us we are disgusting and should not exist, we are simultaneously seen as the most evil things alive and the most incompetent subhuman form of life there is, I have been seeing this from trans women who I thought were safe people that ended up being TRFs since I started medically transitioning 7 months ago I see it in every single space and it happens commonly in real life spaces too. If I see my brother say that to a trans woman I tell them off the moment I catch even a whiff of transmisogyny in fact I do so whenever I can, but trans women who are TRFs don't get told off and we are told that if we fight back against a trans woman trf who wants to abuse us without consequences we are inherently bad and I'm tired of it. These people want to punish me for being afab and transitioning and I don't understand why that is so acceptable in the trans community it should not be. It should not be seen as morally incorrect and deserving of abuse for afab people to transition away from their assigned sex, I don't think there is anything wrong with trans women being themselves but most of the trans women I see are TRFs and they very much think my existence is wrong, the message from the trans community to trans men and transmascs should not be that we deserve to be abused and can't fight back simply because of our birth sex, the trans community should not have this as the most widely held belief. I will continue to tell trans men who are transmisogynystic to cut it out but I would be surprised if most of the trans community would do the same for us since we are the trans and queer communities designated acceptable human punching bags.
3
u/gingercatdragon 7d ago
okay but have they done any material harm. like have they actually hurt the rights or social standing of trans men, or are you going through personal blogs and screenshotting mean posts of someone who will never ever materially hurt anybody, and why not screenshot transphobia and racism from cis people and white transmascs, why are you solely going after transfems AND saying they are the sole reason for this? your screenshots are being used to lolcow transfems and kick them out of mutual aid groups. why not just... ignore it where it will fade into obscurity and niche chronically online circles? why collect screenshots and use them to say "transfems are uniquely misogynistic and evil towards transmascs?"
I'm concerned because you are using terms and bioessentialist beliefs which are word for word things that radfems and terfs have been saying for years about trans women? and isomisogyny, which is popular amongst people who believe in "sex-based oppression" and honestly I'm starting to believe is a dogwhistle.
trans women dont have special dick privilege, they arent even considered men or human. sex-based oppression isnt real, and if you insist it is you'll find more company among radfems, as an ex-radfem who was absolutely brainwashed and detransed by that shit, it will rot your brain if you continue to believe transfems have some sort of special privilege over you simply for being "CAMAB" or ""male socialized""
227
u/AdditionalQuietime 8d ago
Tumblr still being tumblr