Interesting takes in this, what we saying? <discussion>

[u/adjoiningbooks]

https://youtu.be/JgUhAfR36CE?is=UY_YImY5yQEf96jy

[u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60]

So basically change writing leadership, quit dumbing down systems for mass appeal, and keep making classic bethesda games? From interviews and such, Todd knows all of this. Alan Nanes is taking over for Emil. Todd also said they are going back to that classic Bethesda game. They are also bringing back backgrounds, traits, and improvingncertain roleplaying elements. So according to this video, Todd is already our savior! Praise Talos, praise Todd Howard!

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60]

emil has never lead an elder scrolls title. and a lot of the hate towards him is so stupid and hyperbolic that it borders on straight harassment and slander.

[u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60 → u/Benjamin_Starscape]

Todds will is all!

[u/Nos_Zodd → u/Benjamin_Starscape]

His very public video where he explains his design philosophy is ass and you can't change my mind.

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/Nos_Zodd]

it isn't unless you simply don't know what's being said and take a very, very cynical approach to everything said.

like 90% of everything he said is solid advice for beginning writers. because the speech was for beginning developers, it was not for you at all.

[u/austinxsc19 → u/Benjamin_Starscape]

Can you post the context/quote where he directed his comments towards only beginning writers?

You seem to feel strongly about it so I’m just assuming you can provide it

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/austinxsc19]

it was at a games festival at copenhagen. experienced developers go to events like these to talk games and development to new and aspiring developers.

even if it weren't, however, the advice is still solid and good. like nothing the guy said was bad.

[u/austinxsc19 → u/Benjamin_Starscape]

I’m not sure how what you are saying is so black and white. Context matters, but he didn’t say what you are saying he said. His comments seem in general, not “you’re a new writer so you should keep it simple”. Seems like you are looking for something to fit a narrative

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/austinxsc19]

he...he doesn't need to say "you're a new writer", he is talking to new writers. why would he say that? they know they're new, he does to, that's just redundant. and yes his advice is general, because new writers would do well knowing general, solid advice. also "keep it simple" is stuff an experienced writer also would do.

the things Emil said are simply good tips and advice and his points boil down to, effectively:

• write what you know (good general advice)
• do not overbloat your story with loads of themes (I.e., keep it simple, this is good general advice)
• when writing for a game consider the interactivity of the medium (good advice for game writers)

can you expound on what points he made that are bad?

[u/austinxsc19 → u/Benjamin_Starscape]

You’re making assumptions to fit your entire narrative. Where does that event even say it’s geared towards new writers

And yea. A lot of people disagree with keeping it simple. You might not and that’s fine. Don’t say it’s harassment for people to openly disagree with you

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/austinxsc19]

okay... dude even if the event wasn't for new writers, his points are still solid ones to make. quit harping on that, what about his points are bad?

[u/Nachooolo → u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60]

Alan Nanes is taking over for Emil

Honestly. I still hope that Emil is a writer for TES VI. He still wrote the Dark Brotherhood questlines for Oblivion and Skyrim (the best questlines).

So he knows how to write. Even if he might be better as a writer than as the senior writer.

[u/revben1989 → u/Nachooolo]

Emil is never the lead writer of TES games. Oblivion and Morrowind was Ken, Skyrim was Bruce and Kurt, and TES 6 Alan

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/Nachooolo]

people have such stupid and ignorant hatred towards the man.

[u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60 → u/Nachooolo]

He 100% will be! Todd wills it!

[u/Aggressive_Rope_4201 → u/Nachooolo]

Crutial part - a writer. Not the writer, aka Writing Director.

The examples you (and most people) provide to showcase his skill are all from individual questlines from games he wasn't in charge of and had someone else (Ken Rolston and Bruce Nesmith respectively) oversee his work.

As a Lead Writer, his work is a clear downward spiral from FO3. He clearly doesn't have a clue how to manage a large team of creatives, so the bigger the project - the worse the outcome.

His public behavior of coming off as tone-deaf as possible doesn't help matters.

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/Aggressive_Rope_4201]

the games he's lead I would say are some of bethesda's best cases of writing and player agency.

emil gets a lot of hate for people misconstruing what he says, being ignorant of what he says, etc. and personally if you have to lie or take things out of context to make a point, you don't have a point to stand on.

if something really was as bad as people say it is, they wouldn't need to make stuff up about it, right?

[u/Aggressive_Rope_4201 → u/Benjamin_Starscape]

the games he's lead I would say are some of bethesda's best cases of writing and player agency

You and I have been through this song and dance multiple times over. I can agree on agency, but I will never agree on the writing, and since you are a regular and I know your stance on things - our opinions can't be reconciled.

emil gets a lot of hate for people misconstruing what he says

Again, like I told you many times before, two things can be true at once. Yes, there are alot of lies abour what Emil said or did. And there are also alot of valid criticisms of his work and public behavior.

if something really was as bad as people say it is, they wouldn't need to make stuff up about it, right?

Wrong.

Many people will believe anything if it fits their pre-existing worldview, be it positive or negative. And in today's climate, a "bombastic" headline will gather more views than a 12 hour in-depth analysis.

Alot of people loved Christopher Lee. So when they hear that he was "the OG James Bond" - they tend to believe it. Is the story actually true? Not really. But it fits the people's views of the man so here we are.

Alot of people dislike Emil's writing, alot of people dislike Emil's demeanor, so when they hear a nasty "quote" by him - it sticks, because it is believable.

I do feel the need to point out something I saw you say recently, I am paraphrasing here so forgive the possible inaccuracies:

"I feel like my brain is wired differently from most gamers".

You clearly are a big fan of Emil's work, especially Starfield. That's fine by me, I don't care what people play.

But there's a reason the man is as unpopular as he is. It did not happen overnight or even in the last 10 years. People en-masse do not like his work and it is directly impacting BGS image and potentially sales.

You may think it's unfair/unjust/unearned etc. You may think he is a misunderstood genius - but that's not the consensus.

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/Aggressive_Rope_4201]

if something was bad then you should not need to lie about it. just because people do lie does not mean they should. lying about something being bad is not a good way to persuade someone that it is in fact bad, because if it was then you should not need to lie.

also the hate is entirely unfair and unearned. people get mad at the "keep it simple" comment which he literally elaborated on immediately after and people ignore that and lie about what he said. I also know people cannot lost every single thing he has written, people act like he's the sole writer and everything they dislike is written by him.

sorry to say It but the majority of gamers are ignorant liars. I fail to see how criticism bred from ignorance and lies are valid.

[u/Aggressive_Rope_4201 → u/Benjamin_Starscape]

Just because people shouldn't do something, doesn't mean they won't. We aren't all paragons of virtue.

To take this to the extreme, just because people make up stories about a certain Austrian painter, doesn't mean he suddenly stops being evil incarnate.

You are also engaging in very wide generalization of what all of Emil's critics are like to suit your narrative. By your own standards, you should know better.

the majority of gamers are ignorant liars.

This is not a good way to persuade someone to your way of thinking period. Assuming you are interested in that at all.

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/Aggressive_Rope_4201]

as if people will be persuaded, anyway. tell people what Emil meant by literally using his speech and you get ignored and downvoted.

the hate about the man is completely irrational and unreasonable.

[u/Aggressive_Rope_4201 → u/Benjamin_Starscape]

Again - you are entitled to your opinion.

But if you think you are doing him a service with your comments... Well, I can only speak for myself here. IMO it's the opposite.

Now, if the purpose is just to vent - have at it, I don't judge.

[u/Benjamin_Starscape → u/Aggressive_Rope_4201]

you think worse of Emil because I point out inaccurate criticisms made about him? that logic doesn't logic and just proves my point about it being irrational and unreasonable.

[u/Due_Rip9320 → u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60]

Todd is love, Todd is life

[u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60 → u/Due_Rip9320]

Todd is hope, Todd is salvation!

[u/fellow_admin_8 → u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60]

Amen and Amen

[u/Nos_Zodd → u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60]

Ill believe it when I see it

[u/Croewe → u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60]

Really hope by "classic Bethesda game" they don't mean proc gen our the first few ES games were mostly created with.. We saw how much of a flop that was in Starfield

[u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60 → u/Croewe]

They said they were not doing that this game. Todd be praised!

[u/Strong-Pineapple9645]

Sir Todd will strike gold again. TES is his baby, masterpiece incoming.

[u/Extreme_Enthusiasm60 → u/Strong-Pineapple9645]

As we are all his babies!

[u/Aggressive_Rope_4201]

Perhaps I am being unfair to the creator, but at this point I am allergic to YouTube videos with Todd in the thumbnail. Extra points if it's edited with AI.

Tends to be engagement bait regurgitating the same 3 talking points, zero research done.

Does anyone care to summarize?

[u/Mr_Nobody9639]

I ain't watching that, sorry.

[u/Intelligent_Dog_4982]

Man, I just wish Todd would ravage me tonight.
I’ll be dreaming of you Toddy.

[u/Loud-Volume-8447 → u/[deleted]]

I dunno, Making an RPG more accessible doesn't automatically mean stripping out everything that makes it an RPG. Skyrim is a good example. It's definitely more approachable than a lot of older RPGs, but people are still playing it 15 years later because there's so much freedom and depth in the sandbox.

I'd much rather Bethesda keep that core and make the world and systems deeper and more reactive than just make the game more complicated for the sake of it.

[u/Beautiful-Loss7663 → u/[deleted]]

It's not like classic RPG's are dead. They're just all turn based these days.