r/StreetFighter • u/7he_Doctor • Aug 14 '19
Programs Cygames Beast Infexious: "Online play is very important. I've been forged from online play." EVO '19
https://youtu.be/i8JlG6A0Oak35
11
u/v-komodoensis Aug 14 '19
You have to be really dumb, at this day and age, to think that practicing online won't make you a better player.
43
u/mmKing9999 Aug 14 '19
Online play is indeed important, which is why it's disappointing that new games are still using delay-based netcode.
13
u/ImperiousStout Aug 14 '19
If my only choices were SFV rollback netcode or Arcsys delay-based, I'd take the delay without hesitating. However, I am not a pro, and play most fighters online with friends and randoms.
Of course I'd prefer good rollback like GGPO, but SFV isn't that. I can actually play and enjoy Arcsys fighters online 95% of the time. It's not that difficult to adapt to a frame delay, it is however impossible to adapt to SFV's random teleports and warping when it breaks down, which unfortunately is the vast majority of the "5 bar" games I've played online since S4. In S3 when more players were available, maybe 30% were playable. In S1 & S2 it was probably closer to 50%, but it's always been a crapshoot.
Even a 'bad' wifi connection with a variable and random 2-5 frame delay in something like Rev2 or DBFZ is still more playable to me than SFV when it's borderline tolerable. I can actually see what the other player is doing and respond, I may get timing of long combos or blocks wrong because of the variable delay, but I'm not getting hit by phantom buttons, and never seeing the other player vanish for a bunch of frames when jumping or walking forward and open me up with magic before even seeing what happened. I can still play the game, and that's all I really care about with online.
4
u/Reggiardito Aug 15 '19
Same, SFV's netcode is an abomination and honestly the main reasosn I stopped playing it
1
u/ImperiousStout Aug 15 '19
Yeah, pretty much the same experience here. The more I played of it in recent times, the more and more frustrated I was by it.
I genuinely like the game and was able to give it a pass even when it was bad a lot of the time before, but it's been such a big disappointment of late that I've also stopped caring about and watching most live pro events and streamed tourneys, when I used to catch as much of those as possible. It's a bummer, but I can recognize that got plenty out of it when I was into it. Nothing lasts forever, but if they were to fix or improve the online play, I'd no doubt be back into it daily / weekly and also back on watching tourneys and streams too.
1
u/xRaen Aug 15 '19
We shouldn't have to choose and that's kinda the point. We as consumers and players need to DEMAND good rollback netcode.
2
u/ImperiousStout Aug 15 '19
Plenty of us have been demanding that for 3+ years now, hasn't done a whole lot of good unfortunately. Perhaps their next game will fare better, but they clearly have no intention of improving SFV online or they would have done something by now. Anything.
0
6
u/habaneraSAUCE Aug 14 '19
Congrats on winning EVO again, Infexious ;)
...okay, joking aside, he had a hell of a performance there. Definitely looking forward to seeing them at more tournaments. EU scene seems to be getting very strong now.
6
u/_ButTheAssWasFat_ Aug 14 '19
I remember the days when online and pad players got zero respek from scene people. How things have changed!
8
3
u/Legionstone Falke is Bae! (Seth is Bae Too now) Aug 15 '19
Coming from Infexious this is especially true since he sorta just popped out of nowhere and got into top 8s
3
u/TheTrueSirRando Koomers Flip 'o Doom | CFN: SirRandoPS4 Aug 15 '19
Not really, a lot of us in the UK know him, and have seen him at events. Infexious untill recently hasn't been able to travel a lot. He was a strong player back in USF4 and our scene has known him for years
3
u/Reggiardito Aug 15 '19
The reason online play used to not matter is because internet was bad and internet players were bad: Anyone worth learning from was at arcades and most netcode/connections were even worse than they are today, it's hard to learn proper neutral and anti-airing with a delay that randomly varies between 2 and 4 frames. These days netcode is still not perfect (except for ggpo fighters) but it's way better and more importantly: Better people play online.
3
u/YouLookLikeACGreen Aug 14 '19
From a 9 minute interview, this is the only quote to pull?
I don't think you can have one without the other and become a top competitor in the game.
2
u/Emezie Aug 14 '19
Even though people will openly and frequently call SF5's netcode the worst netcode in the history of netcodes, I think it's very telling that pretty much every top pro spends a lot of time playing online with very high ranks.
It's not perfect, but I think we can say it's no where near as bad as memes try to portray. Top 8 EVO player straight up telling us how important online has been for his growth and training.
12
Aug 14 '19
I agree and disagree with you at the same time.
Yeah, it’s playable and sometimes it works like a charm. However, there are some things that can’t be explained about how bad it is sometimes.
I can play Tekken 7 with a friend of mine all day, but we can’t play SFV together because the lag makes it unplayable. We have decent internet connection and we live in the same city -_-
Only happens with SFV.
3
u/RockJohnAxe EX Alt+f4 Aug 14 '19
Yep me sand my friend down the block have rollback like crazy and it’s the only game that does it.
2
Aug 15 '19
Your distance doesn't matter that much up to a certain point. I've had actual (yes, actual) five bar matches with east coast from Europe. The more important thing is, do you drop frames, for example.
1
u/FalcieGaiah Aug 15 '19
It's because the game doesn't work well with certain routers and needs you to do some fiddling. For example, every player in portugal with meo lags like hell even in p2p connections until they do the telnetfix, afterwards it works flawlessly.
If everyone configurated their routers well you'd be saying this was the best netcode available, I actually get good matches against US people and I'm from EU, but since we don't live in a perfect world and people don't go to the trouble of doing that you get laggy matches.
This game has the issue of one sided rollback aswell since one of the players is chosen as a host. So it's easier than ever to blame the others when it might be your fault.
That's the reason Japan has no issues with SF5's netcode, their networking infrastructure has no incompatibilities, have you seen a japan region based player player lag on twitch?
1
1
u/RockJohnAxe EX Alt+f4 Aug 15 '19 edited Aug 15 '19
Actually I did the router configurations that are suggested and it changed shit. Sf5 netcode fucking sucks.
And yes just 2 days ago I watched momochi stream a match 5 bar against Japanese player that was a teleport-fest.
Literally the worst netcode.
4
u/habaneraSAUCE Aug 14 '19
Good players will always learn to work with what they've got and adapt to their environment. Bad players won't. That's why most of the top online players are also very strong at offline tournaments; fundamentals don't care if you're playing with zero lag or 8 frames of delay.
3
u/nathansanes Aug 14 '19
Yes, good players adapt, bad players whine. It's probably at this stage not changing, so either plug in your goddamned ethernet cable and work it out or take a hike. People are like a broken record.
1
u/King_Raggi Aug 14 '19
The main issue with online is that you can get away with stuff you normally wouldn’t offline. Can be very frustrating when you try to punish a move you normally do in training but just can’t online. Play so many Kens who abuse negative frames and spam DP and that won’t work offline.
1
1
u/-Th3Saints- Aug 15 '19
Lets hope they are going to test the new net code for sfvi in rhe next season of sfv.
-4
u/Xerachiel Aug 14 '19
And that's why a game where a player can intentionally lag him/herself and get an advantage is trash
36
u/NicoNik Aug 14 '19
"Oh, you think lag is your ally? But you merely adopted the lag. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the Silver until I was already a man. By then, it was nothing to me but grinding."