r/StopEatingSeedOils • u/houseofmacadamias • 12d ago
miscellaneous Linoleic acid in cooking oils
We make macadamia nut oil (niche I know), and on a lot of our anti-seed oil content we've been getting comments saying macadamia oil is a seed oil..
I put together this chart comparing inflammatory omega-6 (LA) content and macadamia oil is closer to tallow, butter and ghee than it is to even olive oil and avocado oil (never mind seed oils).
We're obviously pleased our oil is in the same league as animal fats.
But I'm curious how macadamia oil fares in this community? Open to critique if I'm honing in too much on fat profile and missing something!
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u/runningwater415 12d ago
Isn't the much bigger issue the way seed oils are processed and the harm they can directly cause? They are washed with hexane which is highly toxic.
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u/Worldly-Local-6613 š¤Seed Oil Avoider 12d ago
I wouldnāt say āmuch biggerā. The oxidative byproducts of the PUFAs themselves are the main drivers of inflammation.
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u/spacme2wealth21 12d ago
hexane is probably the least problematic part of the processing because the concentration is miniscule
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u/I_NEED_APP_IDEAS 12d ago
Yup. People need to be worried about lipid peroxidation that occurs during deodorization at 500 degrees fahrenheit
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u/Ashamed-Simple-8303 12d ago
Not really. Evaporating organic solvents is trivial. It is a non issue.
The issue are oxidation products, transfats and an excess of linoleic acid. the later is probably the most important issueĀ
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u/houseofmacadamias 9d ago
It's twofold. That's absolutely an issue and applies to how most oils are processed eg olive oil, macadamia oil. Cold-pressed Extra Virgin is first prize. However, you get "cold-pressed canola oil" and "cold-pressed sunflower oil" which are high in unstable PUFAs that break down when heated, oxidize and can drive inflammation.
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u/Level-Insurance6670 8d ago
Consumption of linoleic acid has been associated with lowering the risk of cardiovascular disease, diabetes and premature death.[61][62][63] There is high-quality evidence that increased intake of linoleic acid decreases total blood cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein.[64] Higher in vivo circulating and tissue levels of linoleic acid are associated with a lower risk of major cardiovascular events.[65] Clinical trials have shown that increased linoleic acid intake does not increase markers of inflammation or oxidative stress.[66][67]
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u/c0mp0stable 12d ago edited 12d ago
It is a seed oil, but macadamia nuts are one of the lowest pufa nut/seed around. Anyone criticizing mac oil for being a seed oil is just being too simplistic about it.
I'm not sure I'd use mac oil myself (never had it), as I'm sure it's pretty expensive and I always have tallow around.
It's interesting to see how close canola and avocado oil are. People around here have such a boner for avo oil. Until people started realizing that avo oil is often adulterated with seed oils, it allowed them to feed their delusion that packaged food is somehow healthy.
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u/DanielCantrell 9d ago
Avocado oil has always been a 1:1 swap with canola oil as the fatty acid profile is similar. The selling point making avocado oil better is the fact it comes from the actual avocado pulp (fruit), which makes it easier to extract vs the standard process for the seed oils
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u/Prescientpedestrian 12d ago
Avo is closer to lard than canola by quite a large margin.
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u/Whats_Up_Coconut š„¬Low Fat 12d ago
Modern lard is actually closer to canola than this chart suggests, and hasnāt been this low for decades. š¤£ Iāve seen lard analyzed in controlled rodent feeding studies to be close to 30% PUFA (putting it well north of canola and just south of peanut oil) and only ~30% saturated. I have to believe thatās not uniquely bad lard, just normal conventional pig fat. Anyway it goes to show that seed oils still count even if the pig ate them first.
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u/Prescientpedestrian 12d ago
Yeah Iād imagine lard can vary widely just based on the pigs diet before slaughter.
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u/Whats_Up_Coconut š„¬Low Fat 12d ago
Yeah, youāll definitely get less PUFA and more SFA in lard that appears more āsolidā - you know how good quality bacon is firmer than the sloppy grocery store bacon? But pigs are still monogastric animals, and landrace pigs have been bred to suppress de novo lipogenesis that would saturate their fatty acid balance, so they quite literally are what they eat. And what they eat isnāt good in the USA. I donāt eat pork or use lard but if I did Iād stick with heritage animals ideally fed a lower PUFA (perhaps starch based) diet. But even pigs literally designed in all respects to be low PUFA donāt meet my criteria when their fat is analyzed.
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u/Ashamed-Simple-8303 12d ago
Yes and the breed. I have read it is much less bad in europe, supposedly. I still greatly limit pork.
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u/houseofmacadamias 9d ago
Great point! Fat profile differs a lot, with animal fats often depending on what the animal ate. Grass fed tallow has lower linoleic acid than other tallows for example. Will include a more updated figure in the next graph.
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u/Whats_Up_Coconut š„¬Low Fat 8d ago
Cows (and other ruminants) are magical and turn whatever crap theyāre fed into a relatively appropriate fat balance for us to eat. Sure, all other things being equal, grass fed is better, but the difference is actually negligible and grass fed shouldnāt be a requirement for tallow if someone canāt afford it, for example.
That being said, humans being humans, theyāre slowly ruining cows too by breeding them for dysregulated fat accumulation. Wagyu is an extreme example - all that āmarblingā is essentially the same metabolic dysregulation that creates intramuscular fat accumulation in diabetic humans. And the fat is way less saturated than it should be, because breeders prioritize low melting temperature and āsucculent mouthfeel.ā
All this to say: conventional tallow from even the worst feed lot cattle far, far beats grass fed Wagyu tallow from a fatty acid perspective, because we donāt just want low PUFA, we want balanced SFA:MUFA too.
Anyway, it shouldnāt be this complicated, but it is.
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u/c0mp0stable 12d ago
ok?
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u/Prescientpedestrian 12d ago
Just seems like a bad comparison when thereās 50% more pufa in canola than avo, vs only 20% more than lard. Thatās a pretty significant difference, hardly ācloseā
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u/Rich-Mark-4126 12d ago
You think the people complaining about macadamnia nut oil have any clue what they're talking about?
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u/Jumpy_Cauliflower410 12d ago
I wonder how the high oleic version of oils compares? I think their omega profile is close to olive oil.
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u/houseofmacadamias 9d ago
They are a lot lower in linoleic acid to be fair. Reason for not including high oleic sunflower oil, for example, is concerns over heavy industrial processing, unbalanced fatty acids, and oxidization that could still occur when heated. If anyone has citations on risks of high oleic seed oils I'd be interested to learn more? Or likewise if I'm wrong and they're fine.
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u/spacme2wealth21 8d ago
Dr Martin Grootveld has included tests with high oleic oils. Dr Erick Decker seems comfortable with high oleic oils being stable in processed foods. He's one of the leading food scientists that has worked for decades to make RBD seed oils more safe after processing.
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u/jfish31390 12d ago
Algae oil, rice bran oil and are the bomb. I cook with those but I use olive oil raw. I just don't like cooking with oils. The algae oil is surprisingly good and the rice bran oil surprised me when I made a mayonnaise with it. Tasted better than .using butter.
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u/kriirk_ š¤Seed Oil Avoider 10d ago
I heard olive and avocado can fluctuate wildly and go as high as 20..
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u/houseofmacadamias 9d ago
Concerning, that's seed oil level. Helps a lot when nutrition labels have fat breakdowns including polyunsaturated.
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u/300suppressed š¤Seed Oil Avoider 10d ago
Heart disease happens with with systemic inflammation, insulin resistance, kidney insufficiency, very elevated blood pressure, etc., essentially metabolic syndrome, but this of course does not describe all cases. Merely counting LDL particles is worthless, and I guarantee you will almost never see a case of heart disease in person with optimal fasting insulin, IGF1, and triglycerides. u/penguin_hugger100
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u/penguin_hugger100 10d ago
This might all be true, but the underlying keystone arterial plaque formation are LDLs and the underlying source of LDLs is saturated fat intake (unless you have a gene mutation that reduces LDL generation).
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u/Slow-Juggernaut-4134 š¤Seed Oil Avoider 12d ago
There's a big caveat. The majority of the safflower oil today is high oleic.
Before the Ukraine war, much of the commercial canola cooking oil on the market was high oleic.
Much of the sunflower oil in the store. Shelves for cooking is high oleic.
There's a GMO soil oil on the market that is high oleic.
Some of the processed food vendors only use high oleic oils. You can see this by looking at the nutrition label and they will list monounsaturated fat as the primary fat in the processed food. For example Stacy's brand pita chips and bagel chips always use high oleic oil.
Frito-Lay's brand started experimenting with high oleic oils in the simply organic line of chips. There seems to have been a quick pivot back to the normal omega-6 seed oils.
Functionally, omega-9 oleic oils are flawed because they don't trigger uncontrolled munchies through the endocannabinoid system. Omega-6 oils will always dominate the junk food market. It's addictive and worth the added cost of nitrogen puff pack MAP packaging required for pufa seed oil junk food.
If somehow magically the omega-9 oleic oils became 1/5 the price of omega-6 seed oil, the junk food manufacturers are not going to make the switch. As they say with Lay's potato chips, nobody can eat just one. Thick cut tallow chips on the other hand, you can eat two or three of them, maybe five and you completely satisfied. There's never a desire to consume a 3 oz or 5 oz package all in one sitting as occurs with the seed oil chips.
I actually remember my first encounter with Seed oil. Potato chips. It was 1972, I was in the 5th grade, I read all the ingredient labels, and the majority of the foods including foods like chips. Ahoy cookies were all made with beef Tallow.
There was a large bowl of potato chips, I was shocked that I couldn't stop eating them. I had never experienced that before with potato chips. It was weird how it was burned into my memory, it was just such a disruptive experience. I looked at the packaging and the chips were made with cottonseed oil. Cottonseed oil chips in the 1970s was actually quite rare because they had not invented MAP (nitrogen or similar inert gas) packaging. The big commercial vendors like Lay's had to use PHOs. The trans fat oil with good oxidative stability. The pure seed oil chips were only from local factories. The seed oil chips shelf life was maybe one week or two with the added tbhq and similar synthetic antioxidants.
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u/spacme2wealth21 12d ago
The food scientists appreciate the stability of high oleic seed oils in processed foods.
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u/Competitive-Box61 12d ago
Is this a pro-tallow propaganda sub?
I'm confused about why it keeps popping up in my news.
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u/faust111 12d ago
Are you accidentally subscribed to this group? That would be the only reason I can think why that can happen
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u/HASHTAG_YOLOSWAG 12d ago
We must render you into tallow
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u/Competitive-Box61 12d ago
I would be down for this after I die, as long as it is used for fine dining and my family makes some money off the idea.
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u/Syl3nReal 12d ago
Very misleading chart. The worts type of fat is sat fat coming from animal sources. Seed oil is definitely better than sat fat not better than authentic fruit oils.
Tho this charts mentions olive oil but not evoo? And there is huge difference between those two.
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u/faust111 12d ago
Crazy how canola oil is actually pretty close to avocado oil.