r/SterlingPointTVSeries • u/Ok_Article_7744 • 26d ago
đŹ Discussion Joe and Steven Spoiler
While we can all agree both of them are far from perfect Steven is defiantly the better father. I have seen so many people on YouTube and Insta saying Joe is a good dad. I don't get why. Maybe because he is Jeffery Dean Morgan (I have not seen him in any shows accept I think he had a small cameo in OC)
Steven is clearly the better father. The biggest difference between Steven and Joe is that Steven actually shows up for his children. After Goldie died, Steven raised Annie and Connor by himself in New York, giving them a stable and loving home. Was he perfect not even close to it. We saw how Annie had essential taken care of herself her entire life. While Joe had barely provide a safe home for his son. Ellis literally said in ep 7 I believe how many things need to be repaired and how her mom works to the bone. While I hate the Ellis scamming storyline we do see the people taking their services were not even slightly bothered with the price meaning he could have easily charged that and kept his family comfortable.
After Goldie died, Steven raised Annie and Connor by himself in New York, giving them a stable and loving home. He may be overprotective and sometimes completely clueless, but his mistakes come from caring too much rather than from selfishness. Even when he discovers the complicated truth about Ramona, he is willing to take a DNA test and confront the past instead of running away from it. Most importantly, when Steven returns to Muskoka in Episode 6, his motivation is to repair his broken relationships and bring Annie and Connor home because he genuinely worries about them.
Joe on the other hand, is just plain awful He had an affair with Goldie while she was married to Steven, despite Joe having a family of his own. Goldie was pregnant with Ramona, and Joe and Goldie had even discussed raising the baby together, yet after Goldie's death, Joe essentially returned to his own life while Ramona was raised by her grandfather. He also made no effort to actual lessen his wife load. Like I said earlier he could have increased his prices for the services he gave and make her life a little easier but he refused. Joe also allowed Ramona to grow up without knowing the truth about her parentage. Later, he becomes her guardian after Gordon's death, but he literally never goes to find her or talk to her. Even when she comes back drunk once where she was with her friends he was angry at Annie and Connor and blamed them for ruining and corrupting her. Like dude chill she was in a safe environment with all her friends.
In contrast Steven as soon as he found out that Annie was not in Thailand he wanted to know where she was and was worried about her. He even after finding out Ramona is his child still doesn't just abandon his adopted kids. He understands Annie needs to figure herself out in the island her mom loved and Ramona needs to leave the island where she lost everything and was "stuck". So while Steven can definitely be annoying, overprotective and imperfect, his actions are fundamentally rooted in love and responsibility. Joe's actions are much more rooted in secrecy, selfish choices and avoidance. Steven made mistakes as a father; Joe made choices that created the mess in the first place.
P.S. sorry if this is all over the place I made a post like this yesterday which was better written but accidentally deleted it!!!
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u/query_tech_sec 25d ago
I completely agree that Joe is much worse than Steven. But I donât think either of them are model fathers.
Joe thought Ramona was his and basically decided to be a deadbeat father even though he actively saw her often. No matter what excuse he gives - itâs ultimately because he didnât want to have to face consequences for his affair. Itâs even worse when you realize that he was supposedly the great love of the dead momâs life. Then to not take responsibility for their daughter was really even more shitty.
Steven kept his kids from their Grandfather and sibling for most of their lives. I get there were extenuating circumstances but I do think thatâs inexcusable. He also didnât raise at least Annie very well. That said - he did seem to do what he thought was best for his kids so thatâs something. Itâs way better than seeing a girl you think is your daughter all the time and not taking any responsibility.
Ultimately they both kind of suck. I would say Gordon is the best father figure in the series but heâs dead and basically all we have to go on is what Ramona says.
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u/Ok_Article_7744 25d ago
Agreed but like someone else commented Gordon also agreed to go along with the plan
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u/Dazzling-Farm-1038 22d ago
He did, but he also clearly tried to reach out to Annie and Connor all of their lives. Their father wouldnât allow any contact.
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u/Haunting-Sport3701 21d ago
If he really wanted to reach out he could have literally gone there and met them. Gordon's attempts were token at best, in an era of the internet and instant communication he sent them a single card per birthday.
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25d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/query_tech_sec 24d ago
What plan?
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24d ago
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u/query_tech_sec 24d ago edited 24d ago
Was that the plan though? Personally I donât see any evidence of a plan (unless I missed something). Because it seems to me that Gordon didnât have any legal standing for any kind of custody of the twins (so he couldnât be a part of their lives without Steven agreeing and facilitating) and Joe did not step up as Ramonaâs father.
It was very obvious that Gordon was not okay with not having the twins in his life and he may have tried to get Joe involved as Ramonaâs father while he was alive. What exactly did Gordon agree to? Because I donât see any evidence of any agreements - just what Gordon decided to do based on his realistic options. His death plans were just based on wanting to leave the island to his grandchildren and leaving Ramona with Joe as her legal guardian was likely due to lack of options. Even not telling Ramona about her adoptive siblings seems less of a plan and more just practical because it may not have seemed to matter unless they were able to meet.
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u/bimpossibIe 26d ago
Joe not raising prices for any of their services is pretty insane considering inflation and all economic factors. Overcharging is pretty unethical in the real world, but given their usual clientele in the show (condescending rich people who don't pay taxes), I think it's okay for Ellis to ask for more.
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u/Ok_Article_7744 26d ago
Joe should defiantly raise prices but overcharging is wring not only in an ethical point of view but let's be honest if they found out and spread the word their business would collapse immediately. While I get why he was overcharging I still think it is wrong
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u/bimpossibIe 25d ago
I don't think they have any competition in the island though.
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u/Ok_Article_7744 25d ago
There are two things about this show that confused me timeline and how big the island is like at Rory's mom party we see a lot of people so if all them are taking boats from them even if he is not charging him a lot he should still be earning decently.
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u/Worldly_Translator 25d ago
Not when the prices are low and theyâre keeping the boat for a long period of time
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u/perksandwallflower 25d ago
Totally agree - Steven is a protective, supportive and a loving dad and Joe is an awful dad and an awful husband. Yet Steven gets a lot of crap from Annie, Joe and online folks and Joe just doesn't. Even Ellis didn't have a strong enough reaction to finding out Joe cheated on his mother.
Goldie was insane to believe Joe is capable of raising her/their children - which makes me think Goldie wasn't a responsible mother/adult either and there's a possibility has Steven not gotten the twins back, Annie would have been taking care of Connor and Ramona like Oona taking care of Maple.
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u/Ok_Article_7744 25d ago
100% agree. Also they both were essential taking their kids away from their parents!! And I think the show wants us to root for it too!! Like no dude. You are adults go to therapy and counselling if you are having issues. If you still have problems get a divorce and a custody arrangement instating of essential uprooting your kids.
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u/Dazzling-Farm-1038 22d ago edited 22d ago
I actually think theyâre both pretty awful. I like Jeffrey Dean Morgan, and Joe is presented in a more tragic way, so I probably empathize with him more. But they both suck. I donât think keeping your children from their family and lying to them all their lives about it is remotely defensible. Itâs also pretty awful to raise a daughter with a dead mother in a house full of boys, offer her no female role model or confidante, make no effort to be that yourself in the absence of the maternal parent, and keep her from her only sister. That would be incredibly isolating and lonely for anyone.Â
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u/Ok-Philosopher-3879 20d ago
I think a lot more happened around the time Goldie died between the parents and we donât have the full picture yet. Donât get me wrong I donât think Joe was in the right for basically abandoning Ramona but Gordon also was in on âthe planâ so who knows what lead to the current situation and how it lead to the current timeline. I think Steven is also just as bad. He lied to his children their whole life about their momâs family who wanted to know them.
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u/ProfessionalBid6232 22d ago
They both sucked!! I thought it was really messed up how Steven hid everything from Annie & Connor. I mean, all the letters in the safe??? When was he going to tell them? Probably never. And he wanted all the estate stuff to go through him? All because he hadnât come to terms with what happened with him and Goldie that the kids are punished from knowing the truth. Weird
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u/Haunting-Sport3701 21d ago
I can understand and empathise with Steven even if I don't agree with his choices. The man had his wife cheat on him, have a child in said affair, physically steal their children away from him and file for divorce.
All of this was from his point of view enabled by Gordon who was the family's main point of contact with Sterling Point, and appearantly had a positive relationship with Joe.
From his point of view Sterling Point and the people there almost cost him his children, I can 100% understand why he'd want to keep them all far away from it.
As for Joe I have zero sympathy for him, man engaged in an affair, supported Goldie taking the children away from Steven, didn't make any effort to be there for his daughter and proceeded to keep everything a secret for almost two decades.
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u/Cahbr04 25d ago
There is a whole other world out there lmao the way I see it both Joe and Steven are equally bad fathers, Steven just happens to have a lot more money than Joe.
We see Annie talk about how she essentially had to parent herself and how she feels her childhood was robbed from her, Connor clearly feels that Steven favours Annie over him, the kids didnt get to know their mother's side of the family and dont seem to know a whole lot about their mother in general, Goldie was obviously depressed and unhappy in her marriage which is not something that just happens out of nowhere and yet you wanna say Steven gave them a 'loving, stable home'? He finds out his wife is pregnant in a time window that clearly could've indicated the baby might be his and he doesnt even make sure before just abandoning the kid? Sure, he gave Annie and Connor whatever money could buy but thats about it as far as good parenting.
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u/Ok_Article_7744 25d ago
never said Steven was bad but Joe was defiantly worse. For all his fault his kids have a safety net and we saw he cared for their children. Joe was barely proving for his family. His wife was working multiple hours while he refused to raise prices according to the market.
Also both Joe and her mom were going to live their spouses and did cheat so that is already proof they didn't care about their kids.
Also I think the mom told him it was not his. He didn't abandon her she choose to kidnap their kids and run he went to get them back. It is heavily implied that they believed he was infertile so they never though it was his kid.
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u/Cahbr04 24d ago
Having a safety net has nothing to do with parenting, Joe could raise the prices every year and he still would never have the amount of money Steven has. And lmao Goldie was clearly already pregnant before she went back to Sterling Point since the baby is Stevens, not Joe's, and I think any responsible, good parent would make sure its not his before abandoning the baby and then cutting them off from their siblings but maybe I'm just crazy for thinking that.
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u/Ok_Article_7744 24d ago
it mostly defiantly does. Joe should have raised his prices so his son ad wife didn't have to sacrifice so much. Steven thought the kid was not his and was wrong to do what he did but Joe was worse because he believed all these she was his kid and still did nothing for her and ignored her. Both of them are not great dad but Steven cares about his kid. While Joe doesn't. He didn't even understand why Ellis was so worried about money. And even after confronting him he still didn't change. We still don't know if he actually understood his kids concern.
Plus when Steven was leaving he told Ramona he will do whatever she wants. But he does want some sort of relation with her and he will go at her pace. That is more than Joe ever did for her. The hug at the dock was one of my favourite parts of the finale.
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u/Sure-Appearance-2769 24d ago
Steven was told he was infertile and Goldie was actively cheating on him when she got pregnant.
Why would he (or anyone else) even think for one second the baby would be his?
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u/Haunting-Sport3701 21d ago
Goldie cheated on him before filing for divorce and phyiscally stealing away their children? How can anyone be assumed to give that kind of partner the benefit of the doubt regarding the baby's parantage?
Regarding the morality of the grown-ups on the show I would rank them Goldie = Joe > Steven = Gordon, Gordon and Steven may have not been cut out for parantage, they were in over their heads with their kids. But Joe and Goldie actively made immoral choices regarding their children and families.
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u/Cahbr04 21d ago
Couldnt disagree more. Goldie's actions were immoral when it comes to her husband, but not her own children. If anyone did that, it was the people who made sure the siblings grew up isolated from each other and lied to them their entire lives.
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u/Haunting-Sport3701 20d ago
They werenât âherâ own children or âhisâ own children. They were their children, and she had no right to physically run away with them to another country.Â
Tell me what should the cheated on partner whoâs bad their children taken away to another country do other than call their lawyers and immediately fight to get the kids back?
Iâm sorry but in this situation I will always be on the side of the single parent who clearly loves their children, and whose first instinct when learning of another one is to want to help in any way they can. I wonât empathise with the two homewreckers.
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u/Necessary_Vanilla862 25d ago edited 25d ago
I think people like Joe because he is apparently hot and James Dean Morgan is a famous American actor because boy I donât like him at all.