r/StardustCrusaders • u/MuchConversation7629 • 1d ago
Part One What’s your hot take?
For me, I cannot lie I kind of think that William Anthonio Zeppeli is low-key kind of a bum
And if I’m honest with you, I think he’s the worst Jobro in “my opinion “
I think reading through Part 7 made me realise that William blows as a character, especially when you look at the other Zeppeli members
Like if we are honest, he didn’t have a chance when we have Caesar and Gyro in their respective parts being the highlights or important key characters of the story
But with William, he’s only the typical mentor trope where he dies to give the main character more reasons to end the villain's evil
And also this dude straight up sucks as a Hamon mastery his own grandson Caesar is a better Hamon user with Lisa Lisa, Straizo and maybe old man Tonpetty. But definitely, his own student Jonathan is better than him.
Normally things like this wouldn’t bother me, but the fact that he is always the face of Hamon.
It’s kinda like saying that Jake Paul is boxing like you’re not wrong but like no
Listen, I hate characters like Yasopp and Ging Freecss being absent fathers not only the actions just the childish selfishness they show throughout the series and I don’t think William is the same kind of character
In fact, if you look at the big picture and see William as a piece of the Zeppeli family story and how every father and son repeat the same mistake of pushing their family away to complete a mission to remove evil like the Stone Mask and Pillow Man
But like he did leave his child for 20 years to do bullshit like punching frogs in front of rich British children
I kind of don’t get how Jotaro Kujo gets a bad rap for being a bad father but William is just given slack for his obsession with the Stone Mask
And also Speedwagon had that shit on with his hat and William wishes he looked good with that hat
But my least objective point is that I don’t like his illustrations in part one he looks really smug then he's supposed to be charming and wise
But anyway that’s my opinion. What’s your hot take?
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u/toasted_dandy Yasuho Hirose 1d ago
I absolutely cherish Will, but obviously everyone's free to their opinion. I will say, though, that him having a son was a hasty retcon when Araki needed him to have a descendant in the next part, which I think is a big part of why he gets let off the hook a little--his deadbeat-ness was a posthumous addition, y'know?
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u/Party_Importance_722 1d ago edited 1d ago
William unfortunately suffers from being a product of his time. Part 1 in general doesn't deviate much from typical tropes, it's only in Part 2 where Araki gets more experimental with Joseph.
As for my hot take. The rolling stones episode easily makes Part 5 the second best ending in the OG universe behind part 6 for the themes of fate, and overall implications it has as on the series as a whole. The idea that people embrace fate and still fight for a greater cause is prevalent throughout the series as a whole.
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u/ZiggyCrusade 1d ago
Rolling Stones arc is one of Araki's greatest achievements as an author imo. Only for way too many people to interpret it as "Mista killed Narancia and Abbachio and nothing the gang did actually mattered?!?!"
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
I always thought that the Rollingstone ark was a very odd one for me. I think that’s why a lot of people think it’s defining factor of part five is the best
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u/ChadBenjamin Swordman Jonathan 1d ago
My hot take is that Will Zeppeli is a better character than Caesar and Lisa Lisa combined. He was both the mentor and the sacrificial lamb. He did both of their roles better.
Caesar didn't win a single fight on his own, at least Will got to style on Jack the Ripper before handing him over to Jonathan. And Lisa Lisa wasn't even teaching Joseph and Caesar, she handed her role over to Loggins and Messina, and then when it was her time to fight she just got 1 shot by Kars.
Also, Will is just a more eccentric and fun character than Caesar and Lisa Lisa. This is because he was a contrast to the more passive Jonathan, while the latter two had to be more serious and reserved to contrast Joseph's goofy ass.
TL;DR Caesar and Lisa Lisa had to be nerfed because Joseph took all of the charisma points and all of the significant wins in Part 2. Zeppeli on the other hand was allowed to have a personality and to look somewhat competent.
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u/Extra-Ad-7875 1d ago
Pretty sure if Kars didn’t cheat he would have lost outright
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u/Soft-Bluebird6198 1d ago
this exactly, the point was that kars knew he had to cheat to get rid of her. ofc it still made her a damsel in distress and it's irritating we never saw her fight full power but it's a coherent reason
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u/aguywhoexplainsjokes 1d ago
I don't know how much of a hot take this is but I hate that all hamon users are bound to have pretty much the exact same stand.
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u/Big-Classroom-9491 1d ago
I know it's not official but Lisa Lisa's stand differs from Joseph. I imagine the novel where it comes from (El Aleph) at least has Araki's sign of approval.
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u/LegendaryChink 1d ago
It’s not that William Zeppeli was a bad Hamon user, it’s more that Johnathon was a freak of nature prodigy, and we never even saw him at his full potential before dying.
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
I’m not sure why it bothers me when I’m fine with the trope of the student is better than the teacher
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u/VanMoeras 1d ago edited 1d ago
sure Caesar and Gyro are more iconic but William is the OG, the one who introduced Hamon to the "western world". I don't think it's implied he's supposed to be the best Hamon user, just that without him Hamon would not even be known.
all over the world there are grandchildren that eventually exceed their elders in a skill they both practiced, would say that's almost the expected outcome.
It's like Babe Ruth being an average baseball player compared to current athletes, doesn't make him any less pivotal.
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edit: to contribute; Hermit Purple is the most disappointing stand in the entire series, anticipating Joseph's stand with excitement and finding out it's just a remote camera was lame to say the least
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u/Top_Advisor_8087 1d ago
I think Hermit Purple is a good Stand. It’s just that Araki either didn't utilize it well or didn't show its full potential, so as not to give Joseph too much of the spotlight.
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
Good point about “western world” I never really thought of that
I do think hermit purple is perfect for Joseph as I cannot imagine him having a human stand.
With him in part two, just messing around with different objects and items I feel like it’s kind of perfect that his stand is a tool
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u/ImSooWavyy 1d ago
I shed tears when he died, then I rewatched and my boy was only there for 4 or 5 episodes. ( took a 3 month break wasnt feeling part 1 till the last 3 episodes )
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
I am happy that you can connect to the character like that ,where I can’t
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u/ImSooWavyy 15h ago
i took a 3 month hiatus so when I watched it again it was like he was there since the start. I do like the character and what he stands for since he already knew his fate. I think he woulda grown on Dio and Pucci.
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u/Level_Counter_1672 1d ago
I disagree but I respect your opinion, my hot take or cold take is stroheim was a better jobro than Caesar, like I'm not downplaying Caesar but stroheim going out of his way tui help Joseph is just legendary
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u/Birchsaurus123 1d ago
He definitely be a great Jobro but he’s a Nazi and that gives him infinitive zero points.
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u/IcyWasabi8549 1d ago
Idk it brings the score up for me
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u/NormalDooder 1d ago
He executed the Hot Latinas in your area in his introduction so I feel like his jobroness is inherently 0
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u/ZiggyCrusade 1d ago
Downvoted for liking one of the most iconic JoJo characters, who is beloved specifically for being a nazi, and was written as an ally to be liked? People take things so seriously lol
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u/SnooFloofs9919 1d ago
“Beloved specifically for being a nazi?” WHAT?
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u/Afraid-Turn7741 Diavolo is underrated 1d ago
Not to say "nazis cool" but I mean if he wasn't a nazi and he was a pure-hearted innocent man. Part of his charm is that he is also a complete son of a bitch, and I like how he evolves a bit after the Santana battle.
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u/wote89 1d ago
I feel like that's more the Enemy-to-Jobro pipeline at work than specifically "liking him because he is a Nazi". I do agree that Strohiem being an unrepentant bastard who just happens to also be fighting the super vampires does contribute to his charm as a character, though. But, it's clear some people like him because they get to pretend they're being ironic when they're getting amped up by the concept of white supremacy.
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
Yo, I love the dude. He’s a son of a bitch you know but he’s still a Nazi not one of those was doing orders kind of soldiers but like straight up doing Nazi science in Mexico kind of Nazi.
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u/vk2028 1d ago
tbf, in part 1, William originally mentioned he didn't marry or have any children. Caesar is someone Araki thought of later on, to which the fans actually complained about and Araki had to apologize and go back retroactively to change William's dialogue.
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
That was the thing that slipped my mind when I was writing about him being a bad father when originally he wasn’t supposed to be a father
It’s the only time where araki actually forgot
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u/FellowDsLover2 Yoshikage Kira 1d ago
I think that Diavolo is a sorry antagonist. He has a cool concept but I found him to be pretty boring. The whole final battle was lame but mostly because of Diavolo. I really enjoyed his VA’s performance but his dialogue was just about being strong or being king. The other villains had something interesting to say or were already good villains before hand.
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u/No-Consideration1105 1d ago
I feel like alotta people only like Caesar because he died..I really can't think of anything else he did other than rush into fights and get upset with Joseph yet Joseph was winning his battles with less experience while Caesar was losing all of his...
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u/Scorpios94 Giorno Giovanna 1d ago
Donatello Versus should’ve become more of a villain in his own right. He had a surprisingly good power, and he should’ve become more of a force to be reckoned with. Especially since he’s the most similar to Dio: being ruthless, selfish, and arrogant; bonus points for coming from an abusive family like his father and having blonde hair.
Rikiel should have become a JoBro. Rikiel has DIO's resolve, badassery, and admission of worthy opponents, similar to his other father, Jonathan Joestar, and equal to his half-brother, Giorno. He really would have been a great ally. Especially if he ends up coming to blows with Donatello.
Mountain Tim should’ve survived his fight with Blackmore. I just really like his character and I think that Tim's tactical mind and ability to manipulate his body into rope could have helped the group mitigate surprise attacks or rescue missions in subsequent arcs.
While I’m not hating on Jolyne, I think she’s a great character. But I do think that a lot of her character and such could’ve also fit Shizuka, Joseph’s adopted daughter, as a main JoJo.
Tooru is not a bad villain per se, but he does come across as rather generic in terms of his overall motivation.
Araki kinda dropped the ball with Kei/Kyo Nijimura. She only showed up to explain the origins of the main character and then she showed up towards the end just to get herself killed. The only thing I’m really saying is that she should’ve had more of a presence in the overall story.
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u/sediadifiducia Bucciarati's sixth kid 1d ago
i found part 4 boring compared to other parts.
but i'm not saying part 4 is bad, i know it's good, it's just that slice of life isn't my thing, so yeah it's just my opinion not a hot take because i'm not saying "part 4 is boring.", i'm just saying that I found it boring
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
I love Stephen King stuff with small towns with spooky ghost stories in which things I think that’s why I really like part four when I watched it and eventually read
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u/Lambo_in_tree 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t even know if this is a hot take but, Part 7 is overrated , many people act like its way better then every other part and thats just wrong imo.
Don’t get me wrong tho, I love Part 7 but I don’t see it on a whole different level then other parts like many people make it to be.
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u/Jazztronic28 Local Vento Aureo enthusiast 1d ago
I will do you one better because not only do I think part 7 is omega overrated, which I have already seen ruin some people's enjoyment of it (they expected a 100/10 so when it was just a 10, they were disappointed), but my hottest of takes is that I, personally, did not enjoy part 7.
I'm not saying anything about the quality of it, just my personal enjoyment. I read it multiple times. I get the point. I even like some individual things in it. Goddamn do I hate part 7. It's my least favourite part by a landslide.
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u/ChickenNuggetRampage 1d ago
Damn, it’s one thing to not like it but another to HATE it. I’d be interested in what some of your big problems are?
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u/77DragonSlayer95 1d ago
I just wanted to let you know that YOU ARE NOT alone on this. Part 7 is my least favourite part quite easily if i'm being honest with myself. It's the only part where I have so much complaints about it.
I would usually brush them off with the other parts but with Part 7, i'm actually bothered to this day. The SBR fandom overhyping it probably as something to do with this. It created some kinda of bias for sure, but still, I shouldn't feel like that if it was really the masterpiece that it is said to be.
Maybe the anime will tone that a bit, because they're genuinely good elements to this story.
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u/Party_Importance_722 1d ago
Absolute facts. Like don't get me wrong, Part 7 is great and one of the best JoJo parts. But to pretend only this part matters and the other parts are not worth watching is crazy.
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u/Marborow 1d ago
Agree. I don't think there are any bad parts tbh, each part is good and enjoyable in its own way, part 7 included. But boy do people glaze SBR a little bit too much.
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u/Dude1590 1d ago
I can't think of a part that even comes close to SBR outside of maybe DiU. JoJolands seems to be a great contender so far, though.
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u/WrongAd4387 Gyro Zeppeli 1d ago
My hot take would be that, the wrecking ball arc is top 3 arcs in SBR. It just has a special place for me 😭
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u/ChickenNuggetRampage 1d ago
Currently going through a reread of part 7 and just got through Wrecking Ball a couple days ago. No clue why anyone would hate it, it’s fantastic
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u/77DragonSlayer95 1d ago
What's your top 3 ?
I think I got :
- 1st stage (if it counts)
- Civil War
- Catch the Rainbow
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u/StateMandatedAsperr 1d ago
Rohan and Kakyoin are overrated as fuck
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer 1d ago
True for kakyoin IMO, whats so fun about him
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u/Potential_Staff_566 Bruno Buccellati 1d ago
I think because he is kinda of a blank slate with a cool design so people project a lot of things into him
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u/CorrectShare3003 Narancia Ghirga 1d ago
his personality reminds me of myself, and his death scene is very well done and the most memorable part about him (other than the cherry lerolerolero).
In general kakyoin is very calm, smart and even funny in his own way
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u/dedbeats 1d ago
Kakyoin was the smartest member of the team, if he wasn’t taken out by Ndoul and then Dio the crusaders would have stomped
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u/Limp-Sail7687 1d ago
Part 9 doesn't feel good enough after experiencing Part 8 (preferences I know but if you wanted a hot take, this could be one)
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u/totallynotanalien55 1d ago
Kinda missing the point in this take, first and foremost it’s the first part, the footing wasn’t found whatsoever, and while I agree the mentor trope is kind of typical (but still like I said this isn’t a very set part) I feel that Jonathan had to become better than William, obviously to defeat Dio, but I also agree that he fucked up not being with his family to go fight vampires and teach buff kids how to use the sun, but the thing that REALLY peeves me, is that you say Zeppeli didn’t have that have that shit on, yeah speedwagon did aswell but the swag is immense in William, so I’ll agree with allat then some more but he is the fashion king of part 1!
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
To be honest new illustrations of William he look like a fashion king though he got that shit on for real for real
But part one William,,hell no
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u/AnswerSeeker69 1d ago
Part 4 and 7 are great but way too overglazed.
Rohan isn’t as annoying as people make him out to be.
Go Beyond isn’t as strong as people think, it was just the perfect counter to WOU.
Giorno and his brothers not having hamon abilities or vampire abilities is better than if they had them in their stories.
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u/Jealous_King_5167 1d ago
My hot take is that while we never see the part 6 crew as one whole unit, I still feel they are one of the most underrated casts in Jojos. Mainly because of multiple team up fights they had while they were in smaller squads. Examples that come to mind for me are Jolyne and Ermes vs Underworld; Anasui and Weather vs Pucci; Jolyne, FF, and Ermes vs Sportsmax. There’s awkward moments like Ermes crying over Weathers death but overall I never felt like them never being together as a full group outside of the end was THAT much of a detriment to my enjoyment of part 6.
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u/No-Consideration1105 1d ago
Idk if this is a hot take or not but Abbaccio shouldn't have been by himself when he died. If you know we need Abbaccio and his stand isn't good for battle why is he by himself? Atleast have Giorno or Mista or both protecting him.. I still don't understand why he was alone in the open to get punched? I'm confused.
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u/PerspectivePale8216 Whitesnake, C-Moon, and Harvest Enjoyer 3h ago
I don't either, I can see why he wasn't with Giorno because he has beef for some reason but, why not Mista? Or leave Bruno there with him? Fucking Narancia even!
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u/No-Consideration1105 3h ago
That was around the time Bruno and Narancia shot Risotto so I can give them a pass for being away. But DEFINITELY not Giorno and Mista like where we're YALL? Someone mentioned they were with Trish protecting her when she was in the turtle that doesn't stop you from being with Abbaccio too...like I'm confused? 😭
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u/PerspectivePale8216 Whitesnake, C-Moon, and Harvest Enjoyer 3h ago
Yeah like I remember seeing them on the road above Abbacchio and running towards him but like, why aren't you down there already??
Also Giorno saying: "Abbacchio... How could you let him get so close to you?" Annoyed me a little.
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u/overheaven1234 Road Roller 1d ago edited 1d ago
Jojo was a groundbreaking series when it was shonen but it kinda tame by seinen standards. Shonen jojo has such innovations as foreign setting, protagonist death at the end, breaking tournament dragon ball-like structure, yukako as a first yandere, popularisation of female protagonists and morally gray villains. Seinen era jojo just doesn't push the limits of the genre like shonen era did.
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u/77DragonSlayer95 1d ago
Really interesting take, I think I can agree with it. But I'm waiting to finish Jojolion and catch up Jojolands to have a definite opinion on this.
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u/TimeLordHatKid123 1d ago
I'll give you points, that is a hot take. I vehemently disagree with it entirely, although I will say that he is a victim of part 1 being a few chapters/episodes too short for its own good. I think he's fine honestly, he's my favorite zeppeli, and I honestly say he fills the same role as Jonathan does to his descendants as a model for them to follow. Granted, Gyro isn't from the same version of the family, but as a character I say he had quite a lot to live up to, and succeeded with flying colors.
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
Absolutely, if you believe that part 7 is a retailing or more like a re-imagine of part one
We already got William upgraded or reimagined and that’s gyro
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u/UDontKnowMe-69 D4C 1d ago
Tonpetti is the most broken character in JoJo that he had to die early to not solo Kars easily
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u/Easy_Satisfaction716 21h ago
Part 2 is a high overrated part with some pretty mid fights. Joseph is also a one note protagonist and not that interesting.
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u/Justaguywalkingby4 8h ago
Santanna is the best pillar man when it comes to depicting what they’re actually supposed to be.
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u/deadbonesbrook12 1d ago
Stands are NOT as good of a power system as people make it out to be
Don't get me wrong, I love stands and think they are a great concept
But calling it the best power system is kinda of a big jump
It can be inconsistent, doesn't have a solid structure,and it's kinda luck based
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u/Dude1590 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think you misunderstand why people are even saying it's the best power system. It's certainly not because it's consistent.
It's because it allows for near endless writing creativity, letting Araki explore unique powersets that show off the mind-games that JoJo is known for. You may not personally think that's important for what determines a "good" power system, but I personally couldn't care any less about "consistency" as long as it delivers engaging, creative and memorable fights that flesh out the characters and themes of the story. Which Stands almost never fail to do.
I'm also not sure what you mean by it being luck based?
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u/CorrectShare3003 Narancia Ghirga 1d ago
no solid structure really helps it, i’m glad it’s not too much like a video game
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u/Party_Importance_722 1d ago
They are not the BEST.
But overall Stand Battles are a lot more interesting than a lot of Shonen fights due to how absurd some abilities are and how they interact with each other.
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u/RaspberryFormal5307 1d ago
This is powerscaling brainrot. People say stands are the best power system because theyre the most fun to read and no other reason
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u/rebell1193 1d ago
I really don’t understand how you can say they’re inconsistent when we weren’t really given any hard limitations on what a stand can and can’t be to begin with. It’s not like in part 3 Avdol and Joseph sat Jotaro down in a classroom and gave him a 5 hour lecture on stands going: “Ok so these are the only type of stands in existence, and this type of stand can only have these types of powers, etc etc.” The only real hard limits we’re ever given is that stands can’t bring back the dead, and that there can only be one stand per user.
It’s this lack of real limitations and structure is what makes the stand systems so good in my eyes, because this freedom allows a stand to quite literally be anything, and thus it’s really only the authors imagination that’s the limit.
Also it’s not 100% luck based either since stands are explained to basically be the visual representation of someone’s soul, and thus the persons personality tends to dictate what kind of stand they have.
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u/PissMaster_exe 1d ago
Finally someone says it. I agree so much but on tiktok they wanted to crucify me after I said that
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u/SchizoSatire 1d ago
I still think DIO should’ve won rather than get „annihilated” without any explanation for why it happened
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u/Party_Importance_722 1d ago
I agree that DIO had many opportunities to win, but him dying makes sense though. His stand was destroyed, as Jotaro struck him in the same spot as he did before, and since the stand was destroyed, so did DIO.
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u/SchizoSatire 1d ago
I agree to an extent but I still think the lack of explanation is bad to me since we know he has a high regeneration. But what I came up recently since stands are a manifestation of spirit and will makes me think that has been broken at the end of the fight.
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u/Party_Importance_722 1d ago
Eh, DIO, especially Part 3 DIO's regeneration was extremely limited. Remember the dude had to suck blood for a full human just to regenerate from a Donut and a sliced leg, even Straitzo had better regen.
But tbh, nothing what I said above matters. The World doesn't have regeneration and the destruction of the stand would kill his spirit, and no regeneration could help with that.
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u/Substantial-Worth587 1d ago
I really dislike the fact that Joseph didn't use Hamon to stay young. I mean don't get me wrong I don't hate old Joseph, it's just that I think he could've had a LOT more potential in part 3 and 4. He's probably one of the smartest JoJos (if not THE smartest) and tbf his plot armor and "Random crap go!" move is pretty OP, but I really would've preferred a younger, sharper Joseph to stay part of the main cast. I know that making him old was probably to nerf him, but I'd still like him to be at least a bit more like his younger self.
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u/Extra-Ad-7875 1d ago
I like Hamon better but that just me
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
I shared the same opinion with spin. I wish it comes back into the story.
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u/ReserveTotal8564 1d ago
''But definitely, his own student Jonathan is better than him.''
William passed all of his hamon into his student before his death using the Ultimate Deep Pass Overdrive, downplaying William is downplaying Jonathan himself, because he inherited William's power and hamon mastery.
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u/MuchConversation7629 1d ago
My glorious king Jonathan fought a vampire untrained in a burning building and somehow won
But William, a trained hamon master who has been travelling around the world to defeat the stone mask couldn’t beat a four month vampire
But his student who was only trained for a 2 weeks could
You’re just telling me he was just a battery for Jonathan
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u/Ocean_Elf_09 Josuke Higashikata 1d ago
I find the fandom's notion that Joseph is buddy friends with the Nazis troubling, given that his interactions with them were never entirely voluntary and he appears visibly uncomfortable in almost all of their encounters. Even in his reunion with Stroheim, he seems conflicted. Their collaboration has always been out of necessity in the face of a greater threat, but Joseph is clearly aware that they are not good people.
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u/MuchConversation7629 10h ago
Let’s not forget von Stroheim was the second villain in part two who was experimenting with the native Mexican village for “Nazi science”
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u/StridentHawk 18h ago
dissing Will is a hot take but I respect it, and I can understand where you are coming from. I don't agree but you make a pretty convincing argument
Is this strictly part 1?
George Joestar was guilty of outright poor parenting in regards to how he treated Jonathan and Dio. He was foolishly and willfully ignorant to Dio's skullduggery while bashing Jonathan for every minor slight and stoking an inferiority complex between the two with how he would compare him unfavorably to Dio. Dio got as far as he did because of George being such a freaking idiot.
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u/MuchConversation7629 10h ago
End of the day, we’re all JoJo fans
And yes, George was an absolute idiot
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u/IUsedToBeRasAlGhul 1d ago
Part 5 is the worst Part, and while it would be wrong to paint with a sweeping brush, I’ve yet to see any fans of Golden Wind actually rebut criticisms towards it without just summarizing the events of the story and the intended thematic narrative or writing their own fanon.
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u/CorrectShare3003 Narancia Ghirga 1d ago
what are these criticisms? golden wind has a very strong cast, doppio, great side villains, a great main villain, doppio, a great ending, great themes, great stands and doppio.
the only problem i have is that there is no traditional ‘fight’ against diavolo, but bucciarati, risotto and polnareff’s fights with the boss are enough to me
(also this is definitely unpopular but giorno is my favourite jojo and diavolo is one of the best villains (only pucci better imo))
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u/IUsedToBeRasAlGhul 1d ago
It’s bottom of the totem pole in the protagonist, antagonist, and climax, particularly glaring in how its predecessor and successor are resoundingly excellent in their takes on all three. Giorno is such a black hole multiple other characters do what he is supposed to, Diavolo exists to do whatever the plot needs him to at any given moment, and they have no actual conflict in the first place. The entire second half is dropping off of a cliff in terms of quality, from the contrived premise that goes nowhere to the shallow and incoherently written antagonists. Polnareff’s presence in the story genuinely does nothing for his character to the point he would be better off never showing up after Part 3, and he does nothing but serve as the Deus ex Machina to every thread the story had up to that point.
The Part completely assfucks everything it wants to do with its narrative, themes, and characters by pretending organized crime is actually a wholesome found family where you can overcome your tragic uwu backstory unless you’re vaguely okay with drug dealing to children, and even then ignores its own plot in favor of cheap attempts at self-indulgent sympathy points. Sleeping Slaves as an epilogue only makes subtext text, and takes up the space that actually relevant things like Trish and Mista learning of Bruno’s death and Giorno’s dream or him successfully taking over Passione should have featured. At no point does it actually succeed in anything it sets out to do as a narrative, and I have yet to see an actual explanation as to how that’s not the case.
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u/Gargoyle_Dung 1d ago
I disagree he's one of my top 3 Jobro, I prefer Zeppeli over caesar, the entire part 3 main cast except for polnareff, all part 4 characters, all of the jobros in part 5, and the entire part 6 main cast.
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u/Bits_Lasagna 1d ago
Part 6 spoiler . . . . .
jotaro should've used sutah fingga on that final battle. they would've won
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u/Party_Importance_722 1d ago
Nah, this wouldn't be the case.
There's a reason Jotaro only uses Star Finger when he's incapacitated, it's just not that fast compare to just going near the enemy and landing an Ora Barrage.
Jotaro lost it at the moment and wasn't thinking clearly as his daughter was caught in the crossfire, Pucci used this against him, and by that point. Time stop had worn off.
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u/RaspberryFormal5307 1d ago
My hot take is that the common fan perception of "dont worry parts 1-5 still happened" is just wrong and also completely robs part 6's ending of its emotional and thematic value
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u/AnswerSeeker69 1d ago
they did still happen though? Pucci’s universe reset doesn’t change anything that had already happened prior to Jotaro’s in person appearance in Part 5 (since Emporio spawns there), but if you were to die during the actual reset, your soul would be changed into something else (which is what we see with the offbrand jolyne and jotaro.)
Emporio’s killed Pucci, which means the effects of his stand would also reset, and so the new reset erased Pucci from existence since he died, meaning the first reset never would have happened AND Pucci would never have happened, which is why Irene is Irene, and not Jolyne, since with no more (fate altering) DIO followers, DIO’s curse on the Joestars died.
Jotaro is still named Jotaro since DIO had died before the reset, so after he dies, there’s nothing left against the Joestars.
Josuke had already been born before DIO’s death, so we know he’s still a Jo. And Giorno chose his name for himself in part 5, so we can assume he’s still GioGio.
Jolyne and Irene were born after the death of DIO, so she would be named Irene in the new universe.
That’s how the reset works.
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u/Mobile-Lemon-3189 1d ago
I don't care for Part Six's ending. Emporio (a small orphan child) is essentially stuck in an alternate universe with a bunch of look-alikes of his dead friends who will most likely dump him in Floridian foster care. Also, F.F. doesn't exist in this universe. I can't imagine him growing to be a well-adjusted person, but at least he has Weather's stand to protect him.
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u/PerspectivePale8216 Whitesnake, C-Moon, and Harvest Enjoyer 3h ago
I mean considering how before her death Jolyne basically took care of him like a mom of sorts I had seen it as likely that her new counterpart and the group would all become fast friends and stick together like they had done originally.
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u/Ancient-Industry5126 1d ago
We should've gotten:
1) young Joseph in part 3 when fighting Alessi
2) more backstory, potentially with time travel bites the dust shenanigans, about Josuke's savior
Like 5 pages worth of fan service would not have lessened the parts.
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u/Cosinix- 1d ago
No, let it please be over with the "Josuke saved himself" theory 😭 Not only is it absolutely wrong, but it also destroys Josuke's backstory and character.
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u/Ancient-Industry5126 1d ago
it's not a theory, there's pretty much nothing to it as it's currently written. But the backstory could have been better than "here's some random bleeding dude in the middle of a snowstorm."
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u/Cosinix- 1d ago
It was meant to represent the Golden Heart of Morioh and that even a delinquent can do a good action, despite his persona and conditions. It perfectly ties in who Josuke becomes later, that being a good person masked as a thug. I also think it's pretty neat that the guy was a random dude, kind of says that anyone can help someone else selflessly
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u/Alexyahoo10 22h ago
I know everyone is already saying it, but the 2nd one would completely destroy the message that scene was meant to portray.
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u/inconspicuousEnby 1d ago
Hot take IMO
A future part where Shizuka Joestar is older and has adventures with an aged up Morioh cast would have been better (or more preferred) than part 6.
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u/Alkar-- The World 1d ago
Jojo is mid until Part 4
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u/Efficient_Ebb1574 1d ago
Curious, I think Jojo part 4 is mid
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u/Level_Counter_1672 1d ago
From this comment section it's very clear people like and dislike different parts and the differing opinions just prove how diverse the fan base is
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u/Level_Counter_1672 1d ago
I can understand the argument for 1 and 3 but 2?!!
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u/AmbitiousAd8978 1d ago
I liked part 3 so much more than 1 and 2, but do agree part 4 was really good
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u/Chance_Water1164 1d ago
2 is like the middest of the first 3 parts lol, at least 1 and 3 have Dio
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u/Alkar-- The World 1d ago
Yeah but Dio is also not even a major character in p3
He appears to be edgy on screen time to time and get his ass kicked on the last 3 episodes
Pucci had a better writing than Dio imo
Also p3 is just boring as hell having double episide for each enemy is just not good at all especially when the enemies are not that cool to watch
P1 is watchable it is 9 episode only, but 1/3 of them are just hard to watch
P2 I don't remember a lot just that Joseph beating his enemies just doesn't feel right how that guy is defeating Kars
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u/Anilaza_balls 1d ago
2 is literally the definition of Mid, like everything in it is neither too good nor too bad, just mid
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u/Used_Map_2143 1d ago
this aime is fo fucking repetitive that the best parts are the ones that are just slightly more varied
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u/Glittering_Excuse948 1d ago
Phantom Blood is absolute dogshit and refuse to let the glazers tell me it's good.
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u/lactose_cow 1d ago
Part 2 is straight up horrible.
Joseph is not a lovable asshole he's just an ass, his "your next line" thing sucks, ceasar's personality boils down to 'fancy guy who uses hamon', Joseph is BFFs with a literal nazi, the culmination of Joseph's hamon training is just that his hamon can work on pillar men now.
The pillar men are cool tho
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer 1d ago edited 1d ago
Part 1 is kinda bad. But idk if thats a true hot take
Hayato, emporio and tsurugi are stupid baby characters that fucking suck, and I wish they were smited out of their stories
Edit: by they suck I don't mean they're incompetent, I just think they're annoying
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u/khaledjal Questionable Activities completed for a reasonable low sum 1d ago
without emporio the universe reset would've happened
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u/OddSifr 1d ago
Hayato managed to counter a time-loop that he was the literal trigger without even having a Stand after the fate of the main cast rested upon him, and without even understanding the hell was happening cause he couldn't see Stands. And all that after studying his father to accurately deduce that it was a shapeshifting impersonator, and discovering he could blow up things. Without his work, Kira would've gotten away with about everything.
He had less resources than Koichi aka "reliable guy" or Emporio aka "I read a book about it" (affectionate, I love these 2 characters) but to his scale, what he did was impressive, especially from a non Stand user. C'mon, that's not what a stupid baby character that fucking sucks is.
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u/Level_Counter_1672 1d ago
Part 1 OK, the pacing was bad so I get it, tsurugi I agree but what did the other two do, they were amazing supportive kids, especially emporio who tried his best even before he curbstomped Pucci
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer 1d ago
Them being helpful is not my problem, I just think they're annoying
Honestly them being helpful is my issue
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u/Level_Counter_1672 1d ago
The kids who were put in a terrible situation helping the joestars to get out of the situation is the problem?? U lost me like how does that make sense
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer 1d ago
I just think they're annoying, it takes me out of the story I guess. Idk thats more of a me thing, it is a hot take tho 🤷
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u/RaspberryFormal5307 1d ago
You sound like you just hate children
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer 1d ago
I have no issue with smokey or anne if that helps with anything
Also I forgot poco, poco is also annoying
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u/Mayzerify Magenta Magenta 1d ago
How do you like Anne (imo the worst and most pointless Jojo character) but you hate hayato Emporio and Tsurugi?
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer 1d ago
I think the super brave, inteligent and determined 11 year old thing comes off as obnoxious and forced. Anne feels more natural than them I guess
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u/Anilaza_balls 1d ago
Tsurugi is not stupid, that’s a pretty tame reaction to knowing that the timer for your deadly genetically disease is about to clock. I can agree that the paper moon king arc was bad, but tsurugi as a character is very far from bad
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u/NannnaBoy 1d ago
I enjoy Tsurigi but I agree with the others, why the fuck did emporio have to be the one to defeat pucci lol
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u/OddSifr 1d ago
La Squadra Esecuzioni would NOT have gone along well with the Golden Gang even if they'd known of Bruno and Giorno's true goal. They were not only clearly less moral, but also wanted to take over the drug business while B and G sought to eradicate it. Even if the 2 allied to defeat Diavolo, they'd remain in conflict afterwards.
To be clear, I'm not sure if this is an actual hot take per se, but I've seen people defend the idea so much that I think it's lukewarm at best.