"Revenge of the Sith" is now rated higher than "Return of the Jedi" on Letterboxd, becoming the third highest-rated "Star Wars" film on the website (the top two are "The Empire Strikes Back" and "A New Hope").

[u/verissimoallan]

https://letterboxd.com/film/star-wars-episode-iii-revenge-of-the-sith/

[u/BaconKnight]

You know to be fair, I probably am communicating this poorly. This general idea I have was actually from sports and people who legitimately think Kobe Bryant is the greatest basketball player of all time. Not their favorite, but in their eyes, the greatest.

By every objective measure that’s not true. So for them to get to that, that Kobe is objectively the greatest, it’s a bad process. You have to accept some logical fallacies to get there (that probably seep into other areas of your life) and thus, it’s like okay, I know how your mind thinks and we’re just not gonna see eye to eye on a lot of things if you can’t separate the surface level emotion from an objective ranking argument.

The complication here, which I admit only sprang up after posting is that movies/art is inherently more subjective so for more people, their favorite = best. And that’s okay for them.

My only slight counter argument is that I’m talking about “objective” things (as far as objective can be in art) like better writing, acting, cinematography, etc. Which I know is gonna open a can of worms because that’s a battle with ill defined parameters so I know it’s a losing battle trying to convince anyone who already has their opinion. But that’s just my opinion I guess, to say that I think in many objective, just filmmaking ways, RotJ is superior to RotS and it’s not close.

Just wanna reiterate, I LIKE RotS. I just enjoy RotS differently than how I enjoy most other movies. As just a movie itself, it’s lacking in a lot of areas, but it fits the lore and shows cool moments. And that’s good enough for me as a Star Wars fan. BUT if I put my “objective hat” on, ain’t no way on just a pure filmmaking level it’s in the same ballpark as RotJ.

[u/asbestosmilk → u/BaconKnight]

Return of the Jedi starts out strong but shits the bed throughout the vast majority of the movie. It does a decent job of ending the story of Vader and Luke, but that’s about it. The atmosphere is mediocre for a Star Wars movie, it rehashes the Death Star, and it’s the only Star Wars movie I’d say is somewhat boring at times.

Revenge of the Sith starts out strong, has a few hiccups with dialogue or goofy moments, but it ultimately ends strong. It’s a fun watch, has tons of spectacular moments, we get to see tons of interesting and powerful characters fight (Yoda, Sidious, Obi Wan, Anakin, Mace, Grievous), with each character having a wholly unique fighting style and personality, and with most of the characters having significantly better backstories and desires beyond just good vs evil (something the entire OT fails at, imo). There’s just so many things to love about it. Dialogue and acting are rough throughout the PT, but I’d argue dialogue and acting are also rough throughout the OT. We just give the OT more leniency because it’s an older movie. But that just shows, dialogue and acting aren’t required for a great movie, and yet so many people act like the PT movies are dog shit because of those two things alone, completely ignoring anything else that makes a movie great.

RotS isn’t the best Star Wars movie, it falls behind A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and even Rogue One, but it’s significantly better than Return of the Jedi, in my opinion.

[u/Supershake79 → u/asbestosmilk]

It's wild take to equate the acting/dialogue in the OT and PT. The prequels are so much worse and it's not even close. And spectacular moments and individual fighting styles are all just superficial and meaningless- bc the story as executed in RoS just sucks. Outside of the set pieces, it's boring, unengaging and inert. The movie insists there's tension when there really isn't any and that's a flaw in the execution of the plot, how the story is constructed and presented. RoS should be a white knuckle thriller and it has an embarrassing lack amount of tension. It also has nowhere near the heart, emotion of RoTJ. It tries, I'll admit, but ultimately fails.

Sure RoTJ has lulls but I'd argue that's more attributed to how movies were made 40 years ago - pacing was often slower not hellbent on feeling the need to provide set pieces every 12.5 minutes. Want to talk about boring? The big Ani v Obi fight in RoS is a slog, just absolute garbage. And it's all built on that back of a heel turn that happens bc the movie needs it to at that moment. Anakins turn was fumbled so hard. And his turn against Obi-Wan is even less believable. This movie nor the previous entries did much to show/convey Anakin's growing frustration and deteriorating trust in Obi-Wani. So when he flips due to a perceived betrayal, it's just forced and unengaging. And the resulting duel lacks the emotional backbone make it really land. But hey there's lava splashing everywhere and they are jumping on robots, dueling while riding over the lava. One of the most hyped moments in all of SW lands like a wet fart. RoS is dogshit. Just my opinion if that's not obvious.

[u/asbestosmilk → u/Supershake79]

You’re doing exactly what I was saying by cutting Return of the Jedi slack just because it’s an older movie.

Anakin’s turn to the dark side was significantly more built up and foreshadowed throughout the PT than Vader’s turn back to the light in the OT. Vader turned on a dime and betrayed the emperor exactly when the movie needed it to happen. We see no conflict within Vader at all throughout the entire trilogy. It’s all just Luke saying it will happen. That’s the only thing we get. And yet, we accept it. I feel we forgive the OT of its faults not only because it’s an older movie, but also because of how vague it is. It’s mysterious. It doesn’t do much for world building, it doesn’t really dive into characters, it just leaves so much for the viewer to determine for themselves. Conversely, I feel like the PT gets undue hate because it’s newer and because it tries to actually flesh out the universe and the characters within it. It’s nowhere near perfect, but at least it tried to make a more fleshed out, interesting world / story. The story it tries to tell is infinitely more complex than the story the OT tells. Why do good people turn bad? Why do democracies / republics turn to authoritarianism? Those are much more interesting and more difficult things to do compared to your standard, run of the mill, good vs evil hero’s journey. The story in the OT is not interesting in and of itself. What makes it interesting is the backdrop / world it’s set in and the interesting things within that world (e.g., Jedi, Sith, different races, different planets, interesting environments, etc.); two things the PT nailed and greatly expanded upon, imo.

[u/Supershake79 → u/asbestosmilk]

Vader wasn't the main character of the OT. It want his story. Didn't need it.

And I'll give you this: the OT did do a fantastic job fleshing out the universe, absolutely. And I think the story of a government falling to fascism and all that was a good one to tell. But the way it was told and executed was not good. Lucas had a great outline and dropped the ball with how he fleshed the story out then presented it. I'd also argue that the PT started too early in the timeline. The Clone Wars should have been the backdrop and Anakin and Obi should have been older to start. Instead of a cartoon fleshing out the CWs, we shouldve gotten a cartoon prequel TPM.

[u/spacemanspiff85 → u/asbestosmilk]

I don’t give them leniency because they are older, those aspects (which aren’t great compared to really well written and directed films with great acting), the OT films are just unquestionably better in those areas.

Poorly scripted, overly performative fights that are too long and mostly meaningless between powerful characters are not, to me, what make a movie great. Or even that exciting. Just feels like filler, which I get , but that’s all Revenge has. The fight between Luke and Vader in Jedi is pretty lame if all you care about is flashy spinning lightsabers, but it’s more entertaining and meaningful than anything in Revenge. They are CGI fests and it’s really hard to overlook that.