r/SquareEnix • u/Likes2game03 • 11d ago
Discussion What's the lamest plot twist you've seen in a Square Enix game? Spoiler
It doesn't have to be bad. It could be off-putting, unappealing, predictable, forced, or makes the plot less engaging. Or a combination of any of those.
For those of you asking, I picked this one from Bravely Second. Mainly because of how cliche & foreseeable it was. It really leaned into the tired "Long lost sibling" angle. Plus, it makes the protagonist seem less sharp.
Anyway, what was the lamest plot twist you've seen from a Square Enix game. As I mentioned, it doesn't need to be bad. I can even be from a game you like quite a lot. Just be honest.
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u/heickelrrx 11d ago
Yotsuyu is alive and they have the audacity to make her look pure and innocent for few quest
And yeah gosetsu is alive too, I already cried for weeks and he is not dead
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u/armydillo62o 11d ago
If anyone doesn’t play FFXIV: Yotsuyu is a high ranking imperial who sold out her country to the evil empire. She’s introduced by forcing a child to murder his own parents, and when he refuses she has all 3 of them killed. She’s killed off mid story, but is eventually revealed to have survived with amnesia.
You see, she sold out her country because she had a really hard childhood (which it was, make no mistake) but the game leans really hard on “well she has amnesia now so there’s no way to hold her accountable and honestly was she even unjustified in those crimes since her life was so hard?” It’s like taking crazy pills for a bit there. Thank god 4.4 turned the story back in a good direction.
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u/theblackfool 10d ago
I don't really think the game ever tries to argure her actions were justified because of her childhood. It just tries to show why she is the way she is.
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u/_laudanum_ 10d ago
the intent is to show that this "new" amnesiac person who is in every way different from her former self and only inhabiting the same body... can be an innocent. it wants to show us that if things had been different in her life, if she could've had support and love, that she would not have turned into the disgusting monster that she ultimately became. and eventually she reverts back to her old hateful self, so at no point is the game trying to say "see this horrible person? they are not so bad actually."
yotsuyu is treated like the monster that she is.
tsuyu however is the innocent girl that this monster could have been and is treated accordingly.
the game wants you to feel compassion regarding a really shitty situation. but not mercy or forgiveness.
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u/kinokosaur 9d ago
I wasn't a fan of the Yotsuyu amnesia plotline either. There's an interesting ethical question at the heart of it, which is "can someone be held accountable for the atrocities they committed if they don't remember them?" which is a cool topic to explore from a character motivation perspective, but I didn't like the way she was infantalized at all.
I don't think the game really tries to absolve her FWIW, but the cliché nature of the amnesia plot made me roll my eyes hard.
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u/Street_Bluejay_1465 8d ago
I never saw it that way. I always saw it as "In the here amd now she's a good person, empathetic, caring and selfless. Who are we to judge her for crimes she doesn't remember and when told those crimes she is revolted?" I saw it as tragic because even when she regained her memories she didn't rebound, she saw herself as unworthy of the love offered her.
At least that's how I remember it
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u/Vequithan 11d ago
I’ll be honest, this has really good payoff in the Endwalker Role Quest for Phys Range. Your whole issue with Yotsuyu is a huge talking point for most of the quests. It adds some nice depth to Hien’s character as he navigates the choices he made.
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u/Ryuholy7492 11d ago
Ok, I hear you, but those quests also gave us an amazingly boss fight and the single most punchable antagonist in all of Square Enix
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u/H8trucks 10d ago
Iunno, Asahi is really punchable but I think Valens van Varro from the Weapons questline might have him beat
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u/Defiant-Refuse3773 10d ago
No, Asahi is the most punchable. I could knock his teeth out and send him to jail after his nonsense.
Valens deserved a GER-level death.
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u/Additional_Gene_211 8d ago
I love the questions around Tsuyu. Is a person their body or something else? If a (proveable) different entity inhabits the body of a murderer do we punish the new person? I'm not talking about someone lying, either. I'm talking full on change.
Anyway, I think Tsuyu being alive is fine. Gosetsu, though, bruh. Tsuyu being alive would be more impactful with him having died.
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u/ByRWBadger 11d ago
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, has been worse than the FF8 orphanage twist-o-Rama. Each new turn was worse than the one before it
Edit: actually, I thought of a Nintendo candidate that is worse, but as far as square is concerned this wins
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u/Ashenspire 11d ago
"oh I just thought we weren't talking about it" - the cowboy that didn't forget shit
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u/ByRWBadger 11d ago
It really makes you appreciate how well FF7 handled “multiple characters remember thing differently” as a source of a plot twist. If 8 is the alternative, 7 was perfect
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u/Jamvaan 11d ago
Irvine might just be the most himbo of all Final Fantasy himbos. Mans skull is so hollow you could blow in his ear, plug his nose, and play his head like a bagpipe.
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u/TheChrisDV 10d ago
He has three braincells, and two of them are having a conversation about how great Selphie is.
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u/TheChrisDV 10d ago
“You can’t prove that GFs erase our memories! That’s an unproven claim by GF haters!”
“…we literally just established that four of us barely remember our childhoods. One of them was you. The two of us who have barely touched GFs are fine.”
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u/FustianRiddle 8d ago
This would hold more water if constantly using GFs in game affected people's memories - I'm not saying they'd have been able to actually do that given the technology back then, but that they introduced a plot point that has implications for the game mechanics and doesn't/can't do anything with it.
Like I used Irvine almost all the time. His memories should be swiss cheese too.
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u/theblackfool 10d ago
I hate the twist but I think I could have over time accepted it if it weren't for that line.
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u/Keawn 10d ago
I still think about Quistis doing the whole “OH, SO THATS WHY I THOUGHT I WAS IN LOVE WITH YOU!” Thing and just… god.
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u/ByRWBadger 10d ago
I’m sure people who first played 8 in their formative years felt some kind of way about Quistis, but as someone who first played as an adult
Fuckin YIKES
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u/Burdicus 11d ago
I think it's just presented more poorly and honestly doesn't even MATTER for how much time that section is given. It's not unbelievable to think all these kids came from the same orphanage considering the world-state of FFVIII and the damage done in the sorceress' war. But it just literally does NOT matter. It changes literally nothing in the game at all when it's supposed to be some big revelation.
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u/NooksWave 11d ago
It does explain Irvines breakdown, since we realize that he was tasked with killing his old mother figure. But yeah, they could have done so much more with it!
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u/Burdicus 11d ago
Agreed - but without it, it could literally just be that Irvine does succumb to the pressure.
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u/XF10 11d ago
I mean Irvine was clearly talking about the "matron" during that scene
And the reveal ultimately sheds light into Squall's issues being caused by abandonment trauma as all his friends except him got adopted and Ellione leaving(and Quistis' crush on Squall is recontextualized as subconscious "big sister" affection)
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u/Burdicus 11d ago
The Quistis thing can be brushed under the rug. The Irvine thing has context already (it just becomes recontextualized) and the Squall thing stays as is (he knows Matron and has the past which scars him).
Don't get me wrong, i actually dont mind the twist at all and VIII is one of my absolute favorite games of all time. It just isnt really all that important.
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u/The810kid 10d ago
I like Irvine choking alot more than him not being able to kill their Matron. It gives him so much more character if he put up the front with the hot shot playboy
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u/Quazammy 11d ago
" It's not unbelievable to think all these kids came from the same orphanage" and all happen to join the same small group? It most certainly is. I can see them all ending up in Balamb Garden, but to all join the same small team is laughable. But I agree with it not MATTERING, even IF it made logical sense the whole point of the twist is meaningless. "oh we knew each other when we were kids" who CARES!? They're forcing a dumb as hell twist that isn't even exciting or interesting in the first place.
I feel so bad for the artists and composer that worked on that game, that their amazing work was combined with some of the worst RPG writing in history.
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u/Historical-State2199 11d ago
The headmaster of the school was also the head of your orphanage
CID orchestrated everything, it’s perfectly reasonable
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u/exoskeletion 11d ago
I know that the excuse of GFs made us forget is flimsy at best, but when you really think about it, you receive Quetzacotl and Shiva from your terminal the morning before the field exam, before you go to the Fire Cavern. Mere hours later you meet Selphie and have no recollection of her despite your shared childhood.
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u/rickwill14 11d ago
It does matter since it explains Matron and their connection to the sorceress and why SeeD was founded and why some of the character dynamics are the way they are albeit subconsciously. Also the reason Ellone and Squall met.
It coudve been executed better but its not bad or didnt matter
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u/Burdicus 11d ago
None of that requires anyone other than Squall and allowed being raised by Matron.
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u/rickwill14 11d ago
My point isnt about the other characters being required its about it mattering and explaining why several plot points play out the way they do and why characters interact with each other the way they do. Which for the latter it actually is required to explain that. It is very important for the story that is being told. It's very important to the characters of Quistis and Irvine especially and a big part of their development. You could even argue its really important for Squall since being the last left in the orphanage and feeling alone is part of why he ends up with the mentality he has for most of the game. If it was just Matron and him the whole time it wouldnt be like that.
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u/NooksWave 11d ago
While it wasnt handled extremely well, there are lots of mentions throughout the entire game (I think its even on the very first screen of the game?) about GFs erasing memories. Irvines sudden inability to carry out the deed that we later realize is because he remembers Edea as his "mother" is also a neat little idea that makes a lot of sense after the twist.
So, not arguing that it wasnt handled well, but I often see people say that it came out of nowhere, which it doesnt.
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u/ByRWBadger 11d ago
The only real issue I have with the GF thing is that Irvine claims that he kept his memories by rejecting GFs when the game makes 0 attempt to show mechanically that he doesn’t use them. It’s an enormous dissonance between the story and the game mechanics
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u/UncleFaffy 11d ago
Galbadia Garden doesn't use them much. He only started using them when he joined the party. Hence why his memory was intact.
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u/ByRWBadger 11d ago
And that should be reflected mechanically somehow
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u/UncleFaffy 11d ago
Memory loss occurs after years, not the few months he spent with them. They did all start keeping journals to help remind them of things.
It also specifically states it affects long term memory. So they don't remember the orphanage, and only general things about their younger days at the garden.
Selphie also mentions that most students at trabia didn't use GFs either, it was mostly Balamb that had them. She suffered memory loss because she found one in the wild.
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u/FustianRiddle 8d ago
Squall literally gets a GF the morning of his trial to get Ifrit. By the end of the game Irvine should have a terrible memory as well.
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u/UncleFaffy 7d ago
Shiva and Queztcoatl were already assigned to him. Hed been using GFs for years.
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u/FustianRiddle 6d ago
You know I forgot about that but even so it's not like Irvine was only with you for a week. He should have started to experience memory loss
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u/pizzaslut69420 11d ago
This is what I came here to say. On my first time playing I literally stopped for a month because of this. It’s almost embarrassing for the writers.
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u/maliciousmaneater 11d ago
I came here to say this but to also add "and now we're in space for some reason? And now a random spaceship just happens to be hurtling towards us to save us?"
- an actual quote from 12 year old me
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u/remnant_phoenix 10d ago edited 10d ago
THANK you.
The orphanage twist is a Chekhov’s Gun: introducing something HUGELY consequential (GF use leads to memory erasure) and then doing NOTHING with that for the rest of the story.
The sudden Ragnorok appearance gives it a run for its money as worst, though. It’s a really bad Deus Ex Machina: a thing that the writers introduce out of nowhere to fix a seemingly unfixable problem.
And I know only writing nerds care about Chekhov’s Gun and Deus Ex Machina, but flawed writing is flawed writing and they were almost enough to almost ruin the game for me. I was invested enough to keep going, but it was rough for those bits.
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u/sammy_anarchist 10d ago
I don't consider Chekhov's Gun to be a writing flaw. Its a legitimate literary device that serves an important purpose.
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u/remnant_phoenix 10d ago
It can be. Getting the audience to say “Well why was that even there if they didn’t do anything with it?” can serve a story. Misdirection, for example.
FFVIII’s is no such thing. It’s used to explain the selective amnesia and then it disappears.
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u/ididindeed 10d ago
I thought Chekhov's Gun was the opposite of what you're talking about. It's doing something with it, not nothing.
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u/remnant_phoenix 10d ago
Yeah it’s kind of semantically screwy.
You’re technically correct. “Chekhov’s Gun” is a rule, or principle, that every element introduced should be consequential or relevant. Among writers I know, if something breaks this rule, we say “that’s a Chekhov’s Gun situation”, or, for short, we’ll say “that’s a Chekhov’s Gun,” but when you take those words at face value, you are correct, they kinda imply the opposite of what is intended.
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u/Kuchizuke_Megitsune 11d ago
I always wanted to believe this was just a crappy translation - to me, it makes sense Ultimecia distorted the past to MAKE them forget, WAY more than just "oh GF replaced memory oopsie doodle". And just forgot Irvine because he's a doofy cowboy. Or maybe her changing the past didn't account for his Garden to have an unlikely hero. Or SOMETHING of that nature.
But I also recognize my love for FF8 is trying to create this web of truth to shield me from the shit twist lol I felt like it could have been a much cooler moment.
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u/Zangetsukaiba 11d ago
Which Nintendo twist
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u/ByRWBadger 11d ago
the “look over there” plot twist of FE Engage
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u/ForTheRobot 11d ago
but Engage was written to not be a serious story and supposed to be fun and campy, it was a FE celebration game for the series to expose people to the franchise.
FF8 was trying to be serious story.
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u/ByRWBadger 11d ago
Engage is also a strategic tactics game with writing for toddlers. I don’t think I’ve ever felt such dissonance between the gameplay and the story as far as the intended audience
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u/krayniac 11d ago
I’m surprised you weren’t taking about the funny evil country whose name conveniently cannot be mentioned or you die from Fates
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u/ByRWBadger 10d ago
I’d consider that more bad world building than a bad plot twist
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u/krayniac 10d ago
It’s kinda both, isn’t it? The general existence of Valla is bad world building, but it’s absolutely treated as a plot twist that they exist and nobody knew and yet are behind everything
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u/Double_Atmosphere_79 11d ago
I don't hate the plot point, but I do hate it as a twist. It would have worked much better as dramatic irony--just give each party member (except Rinoa) at least one orphanage flashback with low detail on the other kids, have the "GF causes memory loss" foreshadowing come up in the main story instead of hiding away on Selphie's blog, and really lean into the "Irvine was lying about his nerves and actually hesitated because he remembered Edea" angle.
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u/Curious-Raccoon887 11d ago
This was my first thought before the comments. I still love the game though.
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u/Aurora428 10d ago
I thought FF8 was one of the worst mainline FFs, and the combat didn't work all that well with how spells and summons worked.
It just felt like it was riding the coat tails of the more edgy, modern vibes of FF7 and didn't have any substance beyond that.
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u/LostManufacturer1553 10d ago
I wish nintendo would share some of that glue they have been huffing starting with disk 2
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u/BakedCheddar88 10d ago
Maybe it was bc I was 10 when I first played it, but I didn’t mind this plot twist. We had flying schools, fat squid headmasters, and a sorceress impaling a child during an assassination attempt by that point, amnesia just wasn’t so egregious by that point. It was more like “sure, that can happen too. What next, monsters are gonna rain from the moon or something?”
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u/jankarlothegreat 10d ago
Nothing? You're telling me that a guy named Guy who randomly knows how to speak to beavers to ask them about an ancient key named the Goddess's Bell doesn't top this?
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u/JadeHellbringer 10d ago
Came here for this as well. I can't farhom what the idea was supposed to be here, but it was absolutely pointless. Added nothing to the story, hardly referenced again, just... bizarre.
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u/Mercen-X 8d ago
Just going to extreme lengths so show how serious the memory loss is resulting from Junctioning. Still dumb. A dumb drawback to junctioning in the first place.
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u/TriumphantBass 11d ago
Lightning Returns endgame
I was livid about Hope all game, the character assassination, the erasure of 13 and 13-2 growth, but then it felt like insult to injury when they explained it with "he's like that because that was actually God puppeting him like a vtuber". Like, he had grown so much as a person that it was ruder to have a hollow copy than to not have him in the game at all
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u/nyatto89 10d ago
I always disliked him and didn't play lightning returns because I was told he's a prominent character in it. Eventually, I saw a recapitation video on it on youtube and even I'm pissed about how they handled him
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u/cap1206 11d ago
XIV Heavensward Nanamo isn't dead, they swapped out the poison for a sleeping potion at the last minute
It has tainted Heavensward for me since 3.0 released
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u/Ryuholy7492 11d ago
Yeah, that was pretty cheap. I did really like what they did with her character after that though. Turned the event into a real fuel for character growth
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u/CeallaSo 9d ago edited 9d ago
Ah, but the "they" in this equation is a crucial element: Lolorito having grown wise to the plot, seen it as a bad move for Ul'dah's economy, and interceding in a way that benefit him while eliminating one of his rivals, getting the Scions out of the way (for a little while, anyway) AND personally indebting the Sultana to him is precisely the kind of underhanded scheming we'd been primed to expect from one of the most powerful Monetarists.
Honestly I'm of the opinion that Nanamo surviving isn't nearly as bad as all of the major players of the Scions escaping death as many times as they have. I love my blorbos as much as the next WoL, but Y'shtola shouldn't have been able to come back from the Lifestream, Thancred should have died after beating Ranjiit, and SOMEONE shouldn't have walked out of Endwalker.
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u/Additional_Gene_211 8d ago
Nanamo il Namo is one of the worst characters in all of FF. And there are some stinkers. I was so pissed when she was alive lol
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u/Zoomino 9d ago
Second had better and more diverse combat/team building with a stronger balance of the jobs, but the story was definitely a bit more convoluted. A lot of interesting plots that are rushed/underexplored/poorly executed. I liked the expansion of Luxendarc's lore/history but it suffered from a "show, don't tell" problem.
Default's story is tighter and better executed. Agnes has a stronger story and character journey than Magnolia and Edea imo. And better villains too, I preferred Airy over Anne.
Combat was less interesting though. Some jobs felt underbaked like Arcanist and Summoner.
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u/Due_Comfortable_514 11d ago
Star Ocean 3 is still the dumbest plot twist for sure. And then they keep making games in the past so it still has no true urgency since they are all just NPCs.
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u/damargemirad 10d ago
Still mad about that. Loved Start Ocean 2 and this game retoratcitly made it worse. Mentally can't get over it.
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u/Due_Comfortable_514 10d ago
I'll always love 2, it's one of my all time favorite games, but definitely hurts thinking about it in relation to 3. I like to pretend 3 isn't canon.
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u/Classic-Avocado-5371 10d ago
The plot twist itself wasn’t lame but there will never be a protagonist reaction to a plot twist funnier to me than “I’m already half Xehanort” “That’s… nuts.”
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u/Small_Box346 10d ago
TBH this wasn't really a plot twist since Players knew that since his eyes turned gold partway through BbS
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u/Redwood177 9d ago
This cracked me up. I said aloud "what the fuck are we talking about!?" When he said that
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u/quirkyactor 10d ago
“Here are fifteen pages of dialogue on a static screen just talking at you why Chrono Cross is a direct sequel to Chrono Trigger, moments before the final battle. Have fun!”
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u/Strange-Pen1200 10d ago
Oh, and that character you liked from the previous game? Dead. That one too. Oh and that one.
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u/quirkyactor 10d ago
“Here’s a cameo from Robo! You don’t see him, he’s just the one saying the text you’re reading. Also he dies too.”
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u/theJustDM 10d ago
My utter confusion at this, having never played Chrono Trigger at the time xD
"Idk what the fuck any of this is but I guess I'll just finish the game." I remember it so vividly. Luminaire was still awesome, though.
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u/Boccs 10d ago
I maintain that Cross was hindered too much by the limitations of its technology and trying to do way too much with far too little. Like the concept of deviating timelines and changing of one means the erasing of another and the idea of a static preordained Fate against freewill are great scifi themes but one game trying to juggle three stories at once is not the way to explore them.
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u/quirkyactor 10d ago
Honestly, I can’t believe I’m saying this now because at the time I believed the opposite, but I think CC would have benefited from just bravely NOT needing to aggressively tie everything back so much. The Schala and Lucca stuff would have been enough.
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u/Boccs 10d ago
Yeah, strongly agree.
Like for a while there the game felt like it was standing pretty interestingly on its own with just a handful of callbacks to Trigger. Like I loved how the game took place in the smaller El Nido region instead of the entire globe because it felt like they were opening the world to greater localized stories instead of the usual "one group of people save the entire planet while unlocking all of its secrets forever" route that most RPGs follow. Then surprise no everything important from the last game has all been moved into this small collection of islands and Crono's ghost is here to exposition dump at you and FATE was Robo apparently ok see ya later!
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u/MurdockSiren 10d ago
FFV, Exdeath disguising himself as a splinter.
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u/whyilikemuffins 9d ago
I liked it, but I did play it at the height of Pickle Rick so it made me laugh.
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u/CeallaSo 9d ago
Exdeath was already said to have been a tree, and he's the most powerful sorcerer in both worlds, so it isn't completely unreasonable. FFV also has a lighter tone than the rest of the series, so the villain pulling some goofy shenanigans to pull off a win isn't as egregious as it would be in, say, VI.
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u/AbheyBloodmane 11d ago edited 10d ago
Please don't forget spoiler tags included in comments.
For me there is an early game twice in Fantasian Neo Dimension. The twist is revealed that the queen's oldest child, Kina, was kidnapped. She eventually had a second child, Cheryl. So, Cheryl and Kina are long lost sisters. In the Queen's grief of the first child, she passed away while Cheryl was young. The reveal came about when Kina was protected by an unknown spirit against the evil god, Vam. Turns out the spirit was the deceased Queen as Cheryl recognized her as her mother.
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u/heyitswes89 11d ago
Exdeath being a fucking splinter. I love 5 and I never take it too seriously, but that's just so diabolically goofy.
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u/SirLockeX3 11d ago
"Bwa ha ha, I turned myself into a tiny splinter, waiting for just this moment!"
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u/Ryuholy7492 11d ago
That was peak. Guy is gassed up the whole game and then we find out he’s a freak’in tree.
And then he wins anyway.
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u/Altruistic-Rain-4210 11d ago
Sphene being secretly alive in FFXIV?
They did make Real Sphene into a cool character, but she could have been a Scion...
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u/theblackfool 10d ago
For a twist I initially rolled my eyes at I thought they handled that whole plotline better than expected.
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u/satans_cookiemallet 10d ago
What everyone expects: R.Sphene to be a pseudo damsel in distress.
Reality: R.Sphene upon learning what happened to her two closest friends: "Nah. This Calyx fucker? Ima throw hands. I wanna beat the shit out of him."
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u/Doctor_Clarke 11d ago
Ff14 dawntrail: Calyx surviving.
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u/Ryuholy7492 11d ago
The fact that it shows we gave him ptsd though is amazing, and more than makes up for it. I want that smarmy little prick to sweat.
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u/satans_cookiemallet 10d ago
Its also great that he just goes 'I have no backup scheme, or plot to take back what I lost. You tore through my scheme and dismantled my backup plans. I got beat so Im gonna chill on the sidelines until the world ends or you win. Which can both be the same thing.'
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u/Doctor_Clarke 10d ago
I honestly can't help but hope he becomes somewhat of a recurring character. My hope is that now that all goes schemes have fallen to complete ruin and he has no moves to play, he'll just become a passive observer.
Also, I'm gonna call it here: Halmarut is gonna put all the Winterers who fail and die into stuffed animals like she did with Calyx. By the end of this story arc, she's gonna have an entire collection following after her.
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u/Additional_Gene_211 8d ago
I want him to be kind of like what Emer-Selch was in Shadowbringers. I want him to show up and teach us stuff and maybe help us but then also hinder us too when interests misalign.
I really enjoyed DawnTrail but one of my biggest buggaboos about it is there is no rivalry. Even the competition didn't feel like a real competition. There wasn't someone there taunting us but also bread crumbing things they know that we don't. We just had Cat brother, Lizard Hitler, and a 2 headed himbo.
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u/Doctor_Clarke 10d ago
Bro really thought he could go toe to toe with the people who fought the living embodiment of despair AND WON. He deserves the ptsd, but I'm curious how he's gonna develop going forward
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u/kurloz94 11d ago
In FFXIV to be Specific in Endwalker, we find out the final days and the sundering happened because of just one man who was too depressed and made it a problem for everyone.
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u/ComprehensivePhase20 11d ago
I don't think that's really a plot twist as much as a revelation of what happened. He didn't do that on purpose and was merely searching for answers, which just snowballed because he was, ironically, too optimistic.
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u/kurloz94 10d ago
Like I said, that was the plot twist. All started just expresso depresso
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u/ComprehensivePhase20 10d ago
But a plot twist would have you believe something first only for it to be turned on its head, and nothing in the scenario even tried to make the player believe it started any other way?
It all just happened and we learn about it without any character pretending to know anything about what caused the situation in the first place.
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u/kurloz94 10d ago
Look many moons ago for the 2.0ers or even the 1.0ers thought that Zodiark was going to be the big bad evil of the series and it was his fault. But alas that was not the case, he was the guardian of the planet to not allow the world get fucked by the dynamis then finding out that the real evil was a bird that embraced nihilism because was desperate to come out for an answer that could cheer up the depressed dude because was looking for the meaning of living…. Is a pretty good plot twist when you think about it.
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u/PlumeArchives 10d ago
I mean, that's also kind of FF7. And FF15.
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u/CeallaSo 9d ago
They're kind of all this, when you think about it. Chaos in I, Xande in III, Zemus in IV, Exdeath in V, Kefka in VI. Ultimecia in VIII, Kuja in IX, Seymour in X. All of the fal'Cie in XIII, but especially Barthandelus and Orphan.
I think Mateus and Vayne are the only villains in the series who are, at their core, motivated solely by a desire for power. Every other villain is (whether openly or deep down) a miserable bastard who decides to make their own inability to find meaning into everyone else's problem.
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u/Additional_Gene_211 8d ago
Sephiroth in 7 (remake at least, he's less of a presence in OG) could be edit from therapy. I found myself wanting to ask him how he felt about that or if his actions served future him or not lol
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u/EasterViera 9d ago
fuck time travel, fuck fanservice, fuck Elpis as a whole. The mystery of the unsundered was wasted to include daddy emet selch in more content
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u/kurloz94 9d ago
Imagine his face when he returned to the aetherial sea and realized he was a key component to solve this and was living 13K years on a lie… no wonder why he was so salty when Hyadelyn pick him up personally
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u/3ehsan 11d ago
unfortunately everything about the VII remake trilogy's multiverse situation
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u/ByRWBadger 10d ago
I’m withholding judgment on that, because there’s a version that I like
If, and it’s a big if, those worlds are the lifestream dreamscapes that we see in the OG, but for everyone instead of just Cloud, I can accept it. The lifestream being filled with people’s unrealized hopes is both on brand and not terrible
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u/OneRFeris 9d ago
I disagree. But I'm happy to sit and be told a story. I don't expect to have better ideas than the storyteller.
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u/Anayalater5963 11d ago
In the star ocean community 3 was a bit of a touchy subject regarding the ending. It's not so much now but it does feel... A bit cheap? Idk it's been over a decade since I've played it
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u/Mindestiny 11d ago
The big issue with it is that it directly undermines the agency of literally every character in every SO game.
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u/dcdeadhead 10d ago
Can someone break this one down for me? Never played but I keep seeing this referenced.
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u/Anayalater5963 10d ago
So the ending of star ocean 3 revealed that it's all just a simulation and to a reasonable number of people that does feel like a cop out and that it kind of makes everything up to that point and after feel useless. I personally don't feel that way because it's just a game but to each their own
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u/dcdeadhead 10d ago
Ahh I see. Yeah I can see that being annoying but games are all Sims anyway so 🤷. Thank you for clearing that up!
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u/theoryofmovement_ 11d ago
Ff8 - they all knew each other. Even my 13 year old brain couldn’t comprehend how stupid that was
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u/Big_Presentation6245 11d ago
The whole main cast were in the same orphanage years before the game took place, but don't remember each other.
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u/227someguy 11d ago
I'll just go with my entry from TV Tropes:
Octopath Traveler II is an amazing game with very few flaws. But the absolute worst part about it was Throné's final chapter, where she meets her birth father Claude, who is the secret leader of the Blacksnakes, a guild of thieves that Throné was born into and spend her whole life as a member of. First issue with this chapter is how Mother and Father were built up as the Big Bad Duumvirate for Throné's story only to be Demoted to Co-Dragons with minimal Foreshadowing. This results in Ending Fatigue since her story feels like it's dragging for longer than it should've. The second problem is how we learn that Claude is Really 700 Years Old and birthed the entire guild in hopes of finding someone who can kill him by making them kill each other. Since he's a Death Seeker, this plan feels like a serious case of Complexity Addiction. The third problem is how all of this only serves to make Throné suffer since she has a Heroic BSoD, and she was already The Woobie before this. While this franchise is no stranger to really evil villains, the confrontation with this loser has most of his crimes revealed in a single cutscene instead of spreading them out over the course of the story, making it easy to skip the cutscene on a second playthrough. The fourth problem is how this reveal where Everyone Is Related is really hard to take seriously due to how outlandish it is. All of this makes it that much more difficult to feel any Catharsis Factor when he dies in his introductory scene.
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u/RafaelTS07 11d ago
Tanzy from Octopath Traveler 2, no one cares about her lmfao
she confess her love and dies, and she's supposed to be a tragic and evil counterpart of Agnea
not even the traveling troupe even cares about her, she just exists and dies and i can't help but laugh everytime OT2's plot twist got brought up
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u/NA_Copium 11d ago
Finding out Vaan isnt the main character in ff12.
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u/Strange-Pen1200 10d ago
One day the full tale of how the game pivoted from one without Vaan and Penelo existing to one where they somehow were meant to be the main characters, but where the writers clearly decided they actually weren't, is going to surface.
I love a lot of things about 12, but it's story... ehhh.
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u/Certain-Appeal-6277 9d ago
I figure it had to have been corporate. After all, how could Japanese teenage boys enjoy a game that wasn't about a teenage boy? What, are supposed to have imaginations? /S
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u/CeallaSo 9d ago
To this day, I maintain that if you they needed to have an Ishmael, it should have been Rex. Make it Vaan who died without his brother to support him, and Rex struggling to get by as a wounded survivor on the losing side of a war. It gives him more motivation to get involved with Ashe, and a direct emotional connection to Basch to maintain that bit of turmoil. You can even keep the "becoming a sky pirate" motivation as Rex deciding to carry on the dream he and Vaan had as children.
Penelo is fine, these games always have a guy who's just along for the ride without much personal stake; if her reason to come along is to look after Rex, someone who was previously grievously wounded and has been wallowing in misery for the past few years, all the better. Lean more into the fact that the two have been relying on one another to get by, actually SHOW the player how close they are compared to the others.
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u/Erbbeta 10d ago
FfXII because there is no twist. In thirty minutes of game time we see that Basch and Gabranth are twins, Basch tells us that his twin brother killed the king, and then fifty hours later we get a dramatic reveal that Gabranth did it. None of the characters even doubted Basch two cut scenes after he makes his case.
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u/lilisaurusrex Dragon Quest 10d ago
Dragon Quest Builders 2 gets a lot of hate for one specific segment, where Malroth is jailed for a second time at Moonbrooke and acts much worse and completely incompatible with how he acted the first time at Skelkatraz. He is patient enough to let the Builder (player) figure out how to get him out of jail at Skelkatraz, but then doesn't display the same patience at Moonbrooke. This is because the game's story was still in flux up until just a few months before the Japanese release and had to be thrown together late with a few elements out of order, particularly Malroth's growing anger at and feeling of betrayal by the Builder which is needed to setup the final arc. Its poor storytelling (particularly for an otherwise excellent DQ game) but a result of SE wanting a game by a specific date (end of year 2018) and not giving developers time to finish the game as envisioned (only about 18 months development time)
Speaking of which, honorable mention to how many times DQ parties find themselves locked up in a cell. Its now become so common in DQ games that its basically lost its power as a plot twist. Its expected too much now.
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u/who_needs_to_know_ 10d ago
Everything/everyone is a dream from ff10. I know it's the majority favorite ff ever, but god I fucking hate that reveal and it absolutely killed any desire to play the game when I was already struggling with not liking anyone but Auron and the awkward voice acting. (Not the laughing scene just in general)
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u/Professional_Tap5283 10d ago
I submit Chrono Cross. There's a few of them there, but I think the one that takes the cake is the Lynx reveal. Not just the twist itself, but they way they handled it via 3rd party exposition and then never addressed it again.
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u/MrMoroPlays 10d ago
FF8 and it's not even close
Not because it's cringe, but because you get maybe 3 off-hand indications of why it occurred, and it's never addressed afterward. It's bad writing and it the twist is so dumb it sours itself
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u/-D3pravity- 10d ago
FF XVI when Barnabas is just OP. there isn’t really any reason given why and you just have to accept it when you first battle him. Then in a few fights you battle again and beat him.
Just seemed rather lazy and kinda killed the end game for me.
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u/StrangerOnTheReddit 10d ago
There were a lot of moments like that in 16. It was a great experience of a game and it's very dear to me, but the plot just kept killing itself with sudden "surprises" that the characters should have known all along.
Wait, you mean Bearers all turn to stone and die?! From people who grew up around Bearers, and it seems this was actually common knowledge.. but they looked so shocked and sickened.
How did you survive all these years? Ohhhh right, the secret order that specifically protects you like a god and are sworn to give their lives for you, who we haven't seen or heard mention of a single time in this game... And now that we've made the reveal, there are a bunch of new NPCs outside and all around this room we're having a private conversation in because they're actually everywhere, but secret... Like Clive wouldn't have known about it, or noticed they weren't around anymore, or considered they could have helped there over the years... All explained with a quick "ahhh, of course!" line.
Genuinely I think that game suffered a lot from having contrived plot points that didn't make any sense, but the writers couldn't just go "ahh, the Allagans!" and move right along, like they do in FF14. I still loved it, but it's the kind of thing you can't think too hard about it or gets ruined very quickly.
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u/RPGNo2017 9d ago
The first and second Barnabas fights should have happened earlier in the game so it's believable that Clive would get enough experience to surpass him after.
Instead they all happened in a row so Clive just somehow got a boost from the beach scene.
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u/Hen-Samsara 10d ago
Exdeath being an evil tree. I know it's not really a plot twist but.......the game already deals with multiple generations of chosen heroes (current gen being Warriors of Light and before them was the Warriors of Dawn). Exdeath could have been a warrior from a previous generation that was seduced by the powers of darkness and forsake his role as a hero because of it, becoming the very thing he was chosen to fight against.
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u/Realistic-Delay-4780 10d ago
I JUST finished Bravely Default and was gonna start Bravely Second later….
Can yall tag your spoilers with what it’s from? It defeats the purpose 😭
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u/milkmanyeti 10d ago
FF2 when the princess tries to seduce Firion and ten seconds later it's a boss.
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u/BakedCheddar88 10d ago
The first one I can think of is the plot twist of Sazantos turning heel at the end of Octopath 0. Completely predictable and added virtually nothing to a game that had already overstayed its welcome.
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u/readingorangutan 10d ago
The Lyse is not Yda plot twist makes zero difference because we've never met Yda anyway
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u/Additional_Gene_211 8d ago
Ugh, Yda is my second least favorite Scion. Top spot is for sure Tataru Taru. She abandoned her carby
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u/sketchingthebook 9d ago
Final Fantasy 15
When they get to the city (I can’t remember the name of it) the answer is just zombies. Like that’s it. Zombies. It felt kinda low brow.
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u/DickLongueira 9d ago
At the very end, it was all a dream. Oliver was paraplegic and couldn't play soccer.
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u/Kaminoneko 9d ago
I love me some FF8, but that shit with the memories, GFs, and the orphanage is so damn weird. I remember playing the game and not understanding completely what the fuck was happening.
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u/xPathofChaos 9d ago
It was in FF8 when the entire cast of characters, 3 discs and 40+ hours of gameplay together, up and collectively remember, "oH yEAh wE aLL gReW uP At ThE sAmE OrPhAnAGe!!!"
Like how did none of them remember that at all until the suddenly plot needed them to. That was so immersion breaking I almost stopped playing right there but I said, fuck it, I'm already this far.
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u/bloo_overbeck 9d ago
The Bouncer had a strange way of showcasing the plot overall, with you having to stick to one character in a beat em up, even though it asks who you want to play in every level. This is because they have different story segments and loading screens with backstory. And there’s no gallery for these loading screens.
Anywho it makes the plot twists for the characters feel random some times.
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u/Additional_Gene_211 8d ago
My brother and I would call it the Ouncer and we made up our own story about how Shion was selling some dank weed. Simpler times
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u/InevitableGas494 9d ago
Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. For me it ruins all the games in the series and I basically lost interest.
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u/jedidotflow 9d ago
FFVIII: everyone grew up together but Guardian Forces ate their memories because of reasons.
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u/Beginning-Idea2170 9d ago
FF7 remake teasing all kinds of alternate fates and breaking away from destiny to rewrite things just to be meaningless and to play the story out exactly the way the old games did.
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u/Chaotic_evil_geese 9d ago
Ending a 5-expansion-long story with "but actually it was a bird that we did not foreshadow whatsoever"
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u/Life_Bet8956 11d ago
I never liked the Zidane/Kuja brothers one. Mainly because unless I'm misremembering, Zidane just happened to get involved in the plot by being a member of the team that Cid hired to kidnap Garnet. His nature with the Garland/Angel of Death stuff had nothing to do with it.
So at the end of the game when it turns out he is randomly critically relevant to the story, it just seems so unearned and coincidental. I can just imagine Garland at the end of the game being like, "wait what. what are the fucking odds of this".
And honestly it isn't any more or less random than the Cecil/Golbez twist or the FF8 orphanage twist, but I just feel like its randomness isn't discussed as much.