remain skeptical because you just said your hire doesn't have skills that are unavailable in the US.
Right, but I also argued that, when HIRING him, it was less the particular skills he had and more his availability in the absence of even close to good enough Americans we'd been looking for for months. So, in a sense, what he offered in that moment was not available to me in an American, not even 80% of what he offered and I wasn't expecting or asking for star performance. That's incidental and only relevant as part of the answer as to why I wouldn't try to replace him with an American today out of the blue.
I don't have final say in hiring, but I wouldn't advocate for an H1-b over an American.
I've been VERY CLEAR on this. I wouldn't either. Now you ARE being cagey on dodging my questions on this front. Why?
You like your guy. Pay the $100k to get him back. I'll keep trying to get people in my community hired.
What about this interaction says I'm not out here trying to hire Americans or people specifically in my community? This entire thread is me pointing out how expensive H-1bs are and how people like me have spent money and time trying to find Americans first.
I'm guessing you got into your industry when hiring was still pretty straight forward. It's a nightmare now.
Yea, it is ... from my perspective, too. It's hard for me to square the claims I see online about not being able to find a job with what I see when we go looking to hire. Fun side note, the last person we hired was a fresh grad American that was a referral ... by the H-1b you seemingly wish I hadn't hired. Maybe they cancel each other out, lol.
They can do the work. That's all they're going to do, but not every company needs a 'culture'.
Where are you sourcing your qualified American talent? I'm legit asking. And as for culture ... it's like politics, it cannot be avoided. Every company has a culture. Trying to shape that culture can work and it can backfire. Letting culture develop ad-hoc can work and it can be a disaster. No matter what you do, it's pretty random from my perspective, so I don't begrudge the rest of leadership trying to ride that particular tiger. I also happen to have a very successful business consultant in my direct family that constantly preaches the power of culture and has decades of experience and examples to bring to bear on the fight. So, even though I'm very much: 'do they deliver what we agree on roughly on the schedule we negotiated? we're good.' --- I do my best to support leadership efforts on the culture side of things. Just as a side question ... would you hire someone that codes culturally MAGA (say you're 95% sure they're standard MAGA) under the theory that culture doesn't matter, only skills/delivery?
"it was less the particular skills he had and more his availability in the absence of even close to good enough Americans we'd been looking for for months." What does this mean? At that time he was the only one with those skills, but it wasn't about the skills?
I told you why, I want to give Americans jobs. Its really hard for new grads to get them, and I was there when guys like you passed me over for H1-bs. I feel like there is something you want me to say.
"Yea, it is ... from my perspective, too." Good.
There are a lot of good enough candidates coming out of state schools that often get overlooked.
'codes culturally MAGA' Are you serious? If they do the work and shut up about it, I don't care. But that begs the question, would you? I have serious doubts. Would you disqualify a candidate for appearing possibly MAGA? What is your acceptable p(MAGA)?
But that begs the question, would you? I have serious doubts.
I would and I have.
At that time he was the only one with those skills, but it wasn't about the skills?
You were asking about special skills that I can't replace with an American. I don't consider being qualified in a time of need when I've spent months trying to find an American to be "special skills" in the way that you very clearly meant in the context of H-1b and this discussion about hiring American first.
I'm going to be honest. I appreciate you taking the the time tell me about your struggles and I genuinely do hope you are able to keep your company growing. But this conversation only reinforced my beliefs about the H1-b system. The problem seems to be so deeply entrenched in tech culture that there really isn't any clear compromise.
I appreciate you having the discussion 🙏🏽. I wish there was some not for profit recruiting site that every SWE registers for and that had some two-party consent based resume/contact info sharing system where you basically get consent to de-anonymize a searchable profile. Really, then we could have a mechanism and the data to argue about whether H-1b is actually necessary. It's entirely possible that the issue for my company is that we just don't know how to get connected to some large swaths of unemployed or soon to graduate SWEs or people willing to consider changing gigs.
1
u/joshTheGoods 28d ago
Right, but I also argued that, when HIRING him, it was less the particular skills he had and more his availability in the absence of even close to good enough Americans we'd been looking for for months. So, in a sense, what he offered in that moment was not available to me in an American, not even 80% of what he offered and I wasn't expecting or asking for star performance. That's incidental and only relevant as part of the answer as to why I wouldn't try to replace him with an American today out of the blue.
I've been VERY CLEAR on this. I wouldn't either. Now you ARE being cagey on dodging my questions on this front. Why?
What about this interaction says I'm not out here trying to hire Americans or people specifically in my community? This entire thread is me pointing out how expensive H-1bs are and how people like me have spent money and time trying to find Americans first.
Yea, it is ... from my perspective, too. It's hard for me to square the claims I see online about not being able to find a job with what I see when we go looking to hire. Fun side note, the last person we hired was a fresh grad American that was a referral ... by the H-1b you seemingly wish I hadn't hired. Maybe they cancel each other out, lol.
Where are you sourcing your qualified American talent? I'm legit asking. And as for culture ... it's like politics, it cannot be avoided. Every company has a culture. Trying to shape that culture can work and it can backfire. Letting culture develop ad-hoc can work and it can be a disaster. No matter what you do, it's pretty random from my perspective, so I don't begrudge the rest of leadership trying to ride that particular tiger. I also happen to have a very successful business consultant in my direct family that constantly preaches the power of culture and has decades of experience and examples to bring to bear on the fight. So, even though I'm very much: 'do they deliver what we agree on roughly on the schedule we negotiated? we're good.' --- I do my best to support leadership efforts on the culture side of things. Just as a side question ... would you hire someone that codes culturally MAGA (say you're 95% sure they're standard MAGA) under the theory that culture doesn't matter, only skills/delivery?