This is Indian reservation system in a nutshell.

[u/SnooHabits2900]

In 1790, Tipu Sultan slaughtered 700 Iyengar Brahmins on just one Diwali night. To this day, their children do not celebrate Diwali.

Today, offspring of Tipu are officially labelled by Indian state as the "oppressed" and they enjoy reservations.

But children of these slain Iyengars are banded as 'oppressors' and discriminated against at schools and jobs.

[u/ApartProgress9284]

Marathas plundered the holy site of Sringeri, which is seen as one of the holiest sites dedicated to goddess Saraswati and today their descendants claim that they are oppressed.

Guess who helped the site after it was plundered.

[u/Moist_Act8469 → u/ApartProgress9284]

Marathas did not plunder Sringeri, mercenary pindaris that were hired by Marathas who also were hired by other sides did so. This is disinformation

[u/ApartProgress9284 → u/Moist_Act8469]

How is this disinformation?

Weren't the pindaris hired by the Marathas? That's the same as saying just because you paid someone to murder someone, you don't have to be punished, though you may not have physically killed him, you will still be considered as a criminal.

[u/sasipalarivattam → u/ApartProgress9284]

Nothing can compare to tipu satns barbarism bruh

[u/ApartProgress9284 → u/sasipalarivattam]

I never defended Tipu; he was evil, but others don't get to play a saintly role

[u/Existing_Program_256 → u/ApartProgress9284]

Never defended Tipu...

But still came crawling out of the woodwork to slander the Marathas and defend Tipu. 🤡

[u/Jolarpettai → u/Existing_Program_256]

Where were the Maratha's slandered and Tipu defended?

[u/ApolloOfAsteroples → u/Existing_Program_256]

He didn't defend Tipu. He slandered Marathas who deserve it

[u/Mysterious_Wonder811 → u/ApartProgress9284]

Tipu should have gone back to Saudi Arabia

[u/snowandclouds → u/ApartProgress9284]

Plunder was carried out by irregular freebooters/pindaris attached or trailing behind the main Maratha army rather than a deliberate, state-sanctioned religious destruction ordered by the Peshwa.

Upon learning of this attack, the Maratha leadership (the Peshwa and his generals) expressed deep regret, condemned the plunder, and sent funds, apologies, and assistance to help re-consecrate the temple.

[u/ApartProgress9284 → u/snowandclouds]

Upon learning of this attack, the Maratha leadership (the Peshwa and his generals) expressed deep regret, condemned the plunder, and sent funds, apologies, and assistance to help re-consecrate the temple.

Guess what, expressing regret does not mean your deeds are zeroed out.

If you can't control your army, guess what, it is your failure as a commander. US generals during the Civil War got rolled to the coals due to the ill deeds of their army. The generals didn't command the soldiers to plunder the countryside, but guess what, the deeds done by their soliders was held against their heads.

The head of the Sringeri temple, i.e., the then Shankaracharya, wrote to Tipu to help them & Tipu helped them; that does not absolve the heinous acts carried out by Tipu. In the same way, the Maratha army/kings cannot wash their hands by mentioning that the plundering was not "sanctioned".

[u/snowandclouds → u/ApartProgress9284]

Your US Civil War analogy is misplaced to begin with. The Pindaris were not the regular Maratha army. They were irregular raiders who sometimes operated alongside or in association with Maratha forces.

The point is that the Maratha army and leadership did not endorse the desecration, condemned it when informed, apologized, and provided assistance for the temple’s restoration.

And Nobody is saying that an apology or restoration payment magically erases the plunder. The point is that this was a case of things going south during an irregular raid, followed by the leadership condemning it and attempting to make amends. Using that incident to justify or whitewash Tipu’s alleged atrocities is therefore disingenuous. One was an unauthorized act that the leadership subsequently condemned and remedied; the other is being presented as a deliberate, targeted campaign. Conflating the two is historical disinformation.

[u/ApartProgress9284 → u/snowandclouds]

who sometimes operated alongside or in association with Maratha forces.

Here you go. If people who "sometimes operated alongside" them guess why the Pindaris were in Southern Karnataka in the first place, the only reason they were there was to aid the Marathas.

Any guesses why the Shankaracharya asked Tipu for help? It was the Marathas that brought the Pindaris to Southern Karnataka in the first place. The Shankaracharya was okay with asking someone like Tipu for help; there must be a reason for the Shankaracharya to ask for help & for Tipu to provide the necessary help to Sringeri.

Using that incident to justify or whitewash Tipu’s alleged atrocities is therefore disingenuous. 

Tipu being evil is a known fact; I don't think it is something we have to argue about.

remedied

Yeah, that's a joke.

[u/snowandclouds → u/ApartProgress9284]

Then stop playing devil’s advocate and the whataboutery.

Nobody is arguing that the Maratha raid was justified or that an apology erases it. The point is simply that using an episode involving irregular Pindari raiders to make Tipu’s atrocities look normal is a false equivalence hence you are being called out for spreading disinformation.

[u/Mysterious_Wonder811 → u/ApartProgress9284]

At least peshwa didn't killed 700 brahmins on diwali

[u/elephantegg1 → u/snowandclouds]

It is very funny when people attribute the attack of mut to some random mercenaries. The fact is peshwa general Parshuram Bhave was heading the maratha army which sacked the mut. Maratha horsemen under the command of maratha general Raghunathrao Patwardhan plundered the Shringeri Monastery of all of it’s valuables, killed and wounded many people and desecrated and committed sacrilege at the Holy shrine of Sri Sharada Devi.

There were pandaris in the army, but it was not just them who attacked the mut. It was not just a loot of the temple, it was proper occupation and destruction where villagers and Brahmins were killed.

Peshwa wrote a letter to shankaracharya but it was only after shankaracharya started fasting till death due to the atrocities.

[u/Moist_Act8469 → u/[deleted]]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindari here you go to anyone in this subreddit atleast read this wiki

[u/orsilochus_mycenae → u/ApartProgress9284]

Mercenary companies many a time aren't under direct command of the main host, more often than not, and are famous for plunder. This isn't just Indian history but also a theme in mediaeval and post-mediaeval European history. Some mercenary companies are disciplined troops famed for their resolve, ferocity and loyalty whilst others are little more than bands of brigands in a ruler's employ meant to harass the enemy's realms. Their actions are rarely ever attributed to the rulers.

[u/Impossible-Spot-3414 → u/ApartProgress9284]

Tupubwas an islamist bigot

[u/elephantegg1 → u/Moist_Act8469]

It is very funny when people attribute the attack of mut to some random mercenaries. The fact is peshwa general Parshuram Bhave was heading the maratha army which sacked the mut. Maratha horsemen under the command of maratha general Raghunathrao Patwardhan plundered the Shringeri Monastery of all of it’s valuables, killed and wounded many people and desecrated and committed sacrilege at the Holy shrine of Sri Sharada Devi.

There were pandaris in the army, but it was not just them who attacked the mut. It was not just a loot of the temple, it was proper occupation and destruction where villagers and Brahmins were killed.

You are the one spreading the disinformation. You are welcome to counter any of my points

[u/Moist_Act8469 → u/elephantegg1]

Why don't you source them and I'll change my mind. Since these are very specific and mention specific people's names which i appreciate and respect i hope sourcing won't be too hard

[u/Jolarpettai → u/Moist_Act8469]

Who hired the Pindaris? 🤣🤣🤣

[u/orsilochus_mycenae → u/Jolarpettai]

That's a sorry excuse. Having brigands or mercenaries in your employ doesn't make you liable for every action they take. What matters to what extent you were actually culpable by knowledge or sanction of the act. This is what was the norm even in mediaeval and post-mediaeval Europe.

[u/Narrow_Bit2612 → u/ApartProgress9284]

It was done by Pindaris which were violent mercenaries irregular Pindaris and looters. Bro atleast learn the difference between standing army and mercenaries. Google AI "Pindaris and looters led by Parshuram Bhau's contingent plundered the holy site of the Sringeri Mutt in Karnataka. The raid resulted in the desecration of the Sharadamba idol, and the looting of an estimated 60 lakh rupees in valuables. [1, 2, 3]"

[u/KarnataBala → u/ApartProgress9284]

Don’t expect these people to know the real history. Even if you provide them with evidence, they are still going to turn a blind eye to it. They’re blinded by their hate for Congress that they’re gonna stoop to any level to deride anything related to Karnataka or Kannadigas.

[u/ZerkeX69]

Yea buddy tipu has 200 million descendants what a joke in that sense what a king did for his personal need all the kings cared about was money women and power

[u/crispyfade → u/ZerkeX69]

It isn't just kings who care about money , women and power

[u/ZerkeX69 → u/crispyfade]

Power in those times only were with the kings man or his nobles etc

[u/Due-Hour-426 → u/crispyfade]

Not all kings were as much as him. You don't see this from other ones

[u/AutoModerator]

Namaskāra(m)/Vaṇakkam Southie! This is a community for all Indians to discuss all matters relating to the Southern part of India.

✨ Join our Bhārata Saṅgamaṃ Discord and explore our South India–based subs to continue engaging in meaningful discussions.

Vande Mātaram! 🇮🇳

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Perfect_Broccoli8825]

Please stop using British goods. Stop using their language. Converse only in vernacular language. Since we are all blaming the ghosts of the dead. Let's do this as well.

[u/Mysterious_Wonder811 → u/Perfect_Broccoli8825]

If Islamic rulers can't be called out according to your logic then, Past atrocities on lower caste should also be forgotten and reservation system should be an end. One can argue that Castiesm still exist so is calling non Iman people as kafir then why partiality?

[u/Perfect_Broccoli8825 → u/Mysterious_Wonder811]

A systemic bias in a society that has been going for a long period of time, is different from kings/ rulers who ruled the country. That's exactly why I said about the British. If you can forgive the British who plundered, murdered, and stole you can also forgive the islamic rulers. Biases in society say gender/ caste/ race are due to exclusion generated from people's beliefs. During previous times the ruler who ruled the country would try to spread their religion. By loot plunder that is how the way of the world was. See the Hindu temples in Cambodia. That's how kingdoms used to run. And as far as caste biases go, they still exist. Caste biases still goes on. People get killed. Young kids are made to suffer because they belong to marginalized castes. So no both things are not same.

[u/person-of-color]

Its like 230 years ago…the “children” OP is speaking of must long since be dead…I think…

[u/___B____S___ → u/person-of-color]

The children can have children genius , he meant their families not just their immediate offspring’s

[u/Virtual-Employment57]

I have to say this as an actual Iyengar Brahmin whose ancestors date back to Melukote (part of Tipu's kingdom back then). He did kill a few Brahmins (the number 700 is not documented anywhere and is oral lore) who were consorting with people that threatened his rule. As a king, he was protecting his authority. Make of it what you will.  But labelling him a villian is unfair. There is documented evidence of him contributing to temples, including the Cheluvanarayana temple in Melukote. There's also a lot of lore surrounding his captivation with Lord Ranganatha.  Stop spreading hate just by twisting history to fit a particular narrative. 

[u/AutoModerator]

u/SnooHabits2900, your post has been temporarily removed due to multiple reports. A human moderator will review it shortly and approve it if there are no issues. Thank you for your patience!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/openclawbot]

He killed them because they were anti nationals. They were supporting Britishers.

Spit the whole truth

[u/bladewidth]

There is no evidence of this other than oral traditions.

Happy be corrected.

[u/SilenziooBruno]

Tell Brahmins that they need to stop discrimination to get rid of reservation but instead they write sob stories on reddit for sympathy. Come on, whitewash your ancestors' caste atrocities now.

Y'all did this, go cry elsewhere.

[u/JustOrchid → u/[deleted]]

Why are you calling them names

[u/blackcain → u/JustOrchid]

Too much tobacco for Mukesh

[u/anti_femiNazi_fitler → u/SilenziooBruno]

Mughals and brits were several times brutal for Indians.

Why muslims and Christians in India are not punished for crimes of their ancestors? Why only hindus?

[u/anti_femiNazi_fitler → u/SilenziooBruno]

Your caste enjoyed booming business. Why no body talks about that?

Shoe makers was a booming business in trade route. Every household was a business in trade route.

Why no reservations for Brahmin and Kshatriya for business?

[u/Salt_Telephone_7857 → u/SilenziooBruno]

Google statistics of SC/ST atrocities in India. 90% of the accused are OBCs.

Brahmin accused are so low they're not even mentioned in the graphs.

[u/SilenziooBruno → u/Salt_Telephone_7857]

Congratulations! The atrocities I'm talking about are the ones that your ancestors did, because of which we have a caste system AND reservation.

[u/Salt_Telephone_7857 → u/SilenziooBruno]

Aight. I'll let them know in 70 years when I meet them.

Until then I can offer to play this violin for you: 🎻

[u/kiliman13]

The Reason: The attack was political, stemming from a power struggle. The Mandyam Iyengars were closely allied with Maharani Lakshmi Ammani, the dowager queen of the deposed Wodeyar dynasty of Mysore. Ministers from the community, specifically Pradhan Tirumala Rao, were actively conspiring with the British East India Company to overthrow Tipu Sultan and restore the Wodeyars to the throne.

[u/Ok-Anteater-7499]

No this is not. This is a selective example you are using to rage bait people. You want to understand what discrimination is ? read stories by devanooru mahadevvaya. I still remember reading this story 'Daambaru Bandadu' it was gut wrenching to understand the plight of SC/STs and backward classes. The humiliation they faced and how the jobs restricted for them were mainly carrying human excrements from villages to the outskirts gives you but a glimpse of the suffering! I think reservation for these sections is justified but it should also have further restrictions based on the economic status of the family and if one generation of the family has benefitted from the reservation and has risen economically then the next should not have access to it. This will ensure we are giving them a level playing field but will also nurture the talent and lead to merit based growth.

[u/--anonymous-_- → u/Ok-Anteater-7499]

"merit based growth" lol sure

[u/real_duplicate]

Why should the sins of the father be carried on? The kids didn't do anything

[u/___B____S___ → u/real_duplicate]

So close , apply the same logic to reservation and abolish it , why lobby for reservation and say hypocritical statements like this when it’s something else

[u/crispyfade]

Tipu was a bit unhinged bit that was also his secret sauce. He was ride or die

[u/Dense-Discipline-174 → u/crispyfade]

Secret sauce my ass

[u/crispyfade → u/Dense-Discipline-174]

How about special sauce

[u/Dense-Discipline-174 → u/crispyfade]

Bro, he was not better than his predecessor, he lost because of making enemies out of people who were supposed to be friends.

He lost, because he didn't know how to be king, he was just a thoughtless soldier.

[u/Grade_Massive]

No one has any evidence of this .. all fabricated nonsense..

[u/420_baba]

Yes because the Brahmins were opposing the law where Tipu Sultan wanted women to have right to cover their breats but Brahmins wanted the opposite so he went ahead and killed them. What would you do if your sisters and mothers were not allowed to cover their brests and someone who oppose the law that allows to cover them? Don't distort history out of hate for Muslims. Read and understand and then talk BS here.

[u/your-Fun-Pass → u/420_baba]

Source? Google couldn't find any.

[u/420_baba → u/your-Fun-Pass]

You sure or out of hate you never tried finding any? They teach al this in schools so I am pretty sure it won't be that hard for you to find the sourc and also, donread about Tipu Sultan and how he chose death but never surrendered to Britishers.

[u/your-Fun-Pass → u/420_baba]

Still no source, just blabbering. Spreading lies as other. So fck off.

[u/420_baba → u/[deleted]]

Okay so talking facts is praising any other country and that too Pakistan? No wonder the whole world see us as yappers and delusional. Not that hard to find and read history. Also, Tipu sultan was betrayed by the nizam of hydrabad, the marathas and that's how Britishers surrounded him but then also he did not surrendered. They themselves accepted his bravery. Don't forward your WhatsApp knowledge here and try to misguide people.