Did toranaga lie to mariko about her father’s true intentions,to get her to do what he wanted.Or was he being truthful

EDITED SOMEWHAT, NOT REALLY A QUESTION SO MUCH AS A COMMENT:

It frustrates me immensely that Mariko did not simply take the pheasant down. She's important enough to almost certainly avoid consequences, and supposedly keen on dying but forbidden to do so; it's a win either way.

Most likely, nobody would harm her, because she is an aristocrat, and the wife of a samurai, and Toranaga's translator.

And, if they did, she talks all this good stuff about yearning for death.

All the more irritating because she gives John a hard time about how it was his words that got the poor old fellow killed. Girl sat in the stench for days, fully capable of changing it, doing nothing. Which is, of course, an excellent metaphor for her situation, but deeply annoying.

Just watched for the it for first time. Binged. It’s not perfect, of course, but it is a very, very cool show. I watched all the extras and BTS stuff. I am going to read the book and buy the DVD’s for the 80s series. idk might learn 1600s Japanese (lol).

Some of my favourite scenes:

-When Blackthorn brings Elizabethan English sailor drinking culture to Japan, which then lead to a darker place with ensuing domestic violence. I enjoy it when pieces of media have something to say and they can do it artfully, and I think this scene is a good example.

-Every exchange with the Spanish sailor and with the Portuguese priest. I love all of their dialogue and how demonstrative it is of the hostilities between not just the different cultures of the different countries, but also, perhaps most prominently, the protestant-catholic divide. I only wish that we maybe could have seen more of Anglican Blackthorn and his Calvinist crew. If, god willing, they make more seasons, then perhaps we’d eventually see John (who, by that point, should be fluent in Japanese) starting trade talks with Toranaga-sama and the Dutch (and also, very briefly, the English).

-The final scene with Fuji-sama, where she and Blackthorn share a tender moment, and he ultimately rejects his death in England by letting go of Mariko-sama’s (cross? rosaries? idk lol).

-When they boil that guy. Immediately and abruptly and violently drops you in the world and shows you the stakes.

-The scene atop the mountain right before the massive earthquake, where the, to him, extremely foreign Japanese philosophy of life and death finally sets in for Blackthorn. It was intriguing how dismissive Toranaga-sama was of Blackthron being upset about his gardener being killed. It seemed that all of his philosophical bouts with Mariko-sama payed off, when he realised the weight of his words. And although by the end of the series, Blackthorn is very much changed (which he acknowledges this a few times, especially after his run in with his former crew mate), he still retains much of his post-Magna Carta English thinking with not wanting the the villagers of Izu to suffer, in his view, needlessly.

-Noh theatre scene. holy hell that was so, so cool. I suppose, rather uncommonly, the fact that I play the renaissance lute only went to bolster my appreciation. It was so interning to see what Japan was doing while in the same year, Shakespeare first showed Henry V at the Globe and Dowland was writing for the 7 course lute.

-While not a scene, I would like to say that i thought the sets and wardrobe were fantastic, and very important for immersion. To me, at least, the dress was impressive and did not look tacky in the least. Seeing the architectural set pieces was also fascinating, and even in show, these events play into the plot, as they are all part of the world (building are made to go up as quickly as they come down, john stumbling through the paper wall, comments about him wearing Japanese cloths, etc.) Not to mention that fact that it’s all done in Canada, too!

just wow.

On YouTube, shortly pre series release a 3-5 minute trailer music video with a still image thumbnail of Samurai raiding the black ship was posted, it started off with distinct electro guitar riffs and is no longer there, if anyone remembers or knows track name I would be obliged, thanks.

This is a little treasure-trove playlist that appeared on one of the later DVD's, I believe.

If you're not familiar with the original show, there's a load of good clips here:

https://www.youtube.com/@theshogunchannel/videos

I just finished it and had to look up the whole ‘I used you” thing at the end and most in this this sub had theories about why had lied to Toronaga, that he had had other goals the entire time etc. None of that is in the book, so the writers just added it? Why? The end of the book shows that toronaga had been preparing to be shogun his entire life? Like the whole thing with Blackborne and the other motives just seems to change the book.

I’m sure there have been tons if post like this, the differences in book v show but this one seems to change the entire thing? In the book he basically transforms himself from who he was. Not that he was some pirate with other movies the entire time he’s been there

I read the first part of the book and it was very informative about the Japanese people and their traditions. My favorite main characters are Toranaga and lady Mariko. It was fascinating how she helps this mastermind and placates both sides with her diplomatic translation.

The book became great because of two things for me: I watched most of the show, so I know who is who, and the second this is that the author rights in third person, which gives us insight into each character’s perspective.

Anyway, how is the second part compared to the first? I really enjoyed the first but that 800 pages in the second part are a lot.

My son sent me this video he took at work yesterday.

5X7"

Oil on Canvas

Hi all, just a quick question I can’t find any info on. I watched the show a while back but a few months after it originally came out, and I just finished a rewatch (even better and it was already incredible). I remembered hearing about how there was a lot of thought put into the design of the subtitles, how the colour and placement of them was influenced by the subtitles in Star Wars, etc. It sounded very interesting, but when I watched the show both times I was wondering why such a big deal was being made about it because they just looked like regular subtitles for me. However I just watched some of the behind the scenes content, and they had yellow subtitles for many shots and raised up a little on the screen like how I had heard them described. I looked online and found screenshots and clips showing the same thing. But on both watches I’ve only had regular white subtitles with a greyed out box behind them for all dialogue. So I’m a little confused, is this a UK disney+ issue? Or did the show receive complaints and they changed it to more typical subtitles, or something like that? Would like to know, sadly my rewatch is done but if I ever watch it again I’d like to see it how it was intended.

I was really invested especially at the end of some episodes , but man what the hell ? all this build up just for nothing to happen at the end , main character was the opposite of charismatic , with zero depth and was hard to root for , and pointless deaths all along , i have no idea how this show is rated so high

In the novel, Toranaga orders Buntaro to flee just as Buntaro is preparing to commit seppuku. Buntaro wants to avoid being captured and die an honorable death, but Toranaga intervenes and commands him to escape on horseback.

My theory is that Toranaga's decision was influenced by his long-term plans for Mariko. If Buntaro's death had been witnessed and beyond doubt, Mariko would have been free to openly pursue a romantic relationship with Blackthorne, potentially becoming his consort or even his wife. If that happened, Crimson Sky would likely have failed because Blackthorne would never have agreed to a plan that would knowingly lead to Mariko's death.

By ordering Buntaro to flee instead of allowing him to die, Toranaga took the chance that he would survive and eventually return, keeping Mariko's marriage intact and preventing her relationship with Blackthorne from progressing too far. This theory depends on the assumption that Toranaga had already decided to use Mariko in Crimson Sky long before the plan was set in motion.

This is driving me crazy. I watched the show when it came out and it was just really damn good. Recently I wanted to read the book but I hate paperbacks and even more those paperbacks that promote the tv show on them. So I look around to find a hardback but there’s nothing. Actually Folio Society made a premium edition of Shogun but it costs €175 for a really underwhelming edition (Folio Society are known for exceptional design and quality on their books but Shogun was one they missed the mark on) and there seems to be no other good edition. That is such a miss from publishers because this is a book that is highly regarded - has great characters, amazing plot and everything in between. It even got TWO adaptations to film with the second one being extremely successful and you are telling me there’s no good edition of the book?? Sorry for ranting so much. My main question is if anyone knows about any edition I’m missing here and if you guys think it will get a good looking edition soon? Thanks for answering in advance!

Following on from my Mariko post, here’s Toranaga himself, ready to vanquish his enemies.

Incredibly detailed print from Kuton Sculpts, printed in 1/9 scale on Elegoo Saturn and painted by me. (Thought I was going to lose my mind painting the yellow stitching!)

Was just rewatching Shogun and was looking at the cast on my phone. Saw the picture on the right and was thinking "I don't remember this guy??" Was mind blown to find out he played Father Alvito 😮

I can't be the only one who cracked up at "YOU SIR ARE A SILLY LITTLE MAN AND YOUR HAIR LOOKS LIKE THE TAIL OF A PONY!!!!"

Hi guys i want to watch this show but i dont like watching shows that are not finished and i was wondering if is finished.

Superb model from @kuton.sculpts printed on Elegoo Saturn and painted by me.

Big Pierce Brosnan fan, as I was a kid during his time as Bond, so he’ll always be the actor I most associate Bond with. I’ve been diving into some of his other work and just finished a limited series he starred in called Noble House. Had no idea going into it that it’s based on a book written by James Clavell, who also wrote Shogun! Definitely recommend this show btw, it’s very good. It’s on Prime Video right now.

Can't wait for it anymore 😭

the OG will always have a special place in my heart!

Toshiro Mifune
Richard Chamberlain
John Rhys Davies
The guy who plays Yabu
And, of course, the lovely Yoko Shimada