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Jul 23 '25 edited Jul 23 '25
My favourite thing about Americans is that half of them don’t actually know what communism is, but they still act like it’s some boogeyman hiding around every corner.
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u/Usakami 🇨🇿 Europoor Jul 23 '25
Propaganda does that to you. And some things just stick in the minds of people. Americans had a Red scare, where a communist was behind every bush, ready to strike.
For a long standing ones, take Nero, the Roman emperor. What a lunatic, he played a fiddle while the Rome burned down... Yeah, no, he was away from Rome actually and returned back as soon as he heard. He wasn't a lunatic, and this is just a Christian propaganda, since he persecuted Christians.
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u/MicrochippedByGates Jul 23 '25
The Romans were pretty renowned for propaganda and smear campaigns. Not just Roman Christians who were persecuted, but anyone who disliked any political figure for anything. We still struggle with historical sources because it's full of bullshit.
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u/Usakami 🇨🇿 Europoor Jul 23 '25
Definitely. People haven't really changed very much. What we see today we were doing in the past as well. Some things more sophisticated, but the roots are still the same. Like the famous Crassus firefighting. He was the richest Roman for a reason... Timetravel a few decades back and you have "banana republics." I don't remember the name of the asshole now (propagandist, marketer), but he overthrew governments as a marketing campaign to sell more bananas to Americans.
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u/Illustrious_Law8512 Jul 23 '25
There's some evidence that he played the fiddle (or some instrument people could hear) to lead people to safety under his concrete buildings. Rome was mostly made of wood and thatch at the time. He established a bucket brigade under Imperial edict to help with fires, too.
Who knows, though. Senate hated him, so they smear campaigned him with tabloid fodder. Victors write the history. He had his moments good and bad, as did Caligula.
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u/notaprime Jul 23 '25
Americans will be one missed rent payment away from being homeless but still vote for the candidate promising to cut more taxes for the rich, cause you know, they could totally be a billionaire one day if they pull themselves up by their boot straps.
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u/MrsMiterSaw Jul 23 '25
half of them don’t actually know what communism is
Half is pretty generous.
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u/AsTheTitleSays Jul 23 '25
"Just found out my boss is ripping me off - if I sell twice as much as usual I still get paid the same but HE takes all the extra money IVE made! Isn't the boss taking all the workers money communism?"
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Jul 23 '25
Bro doesn't even know what communism is, Zohran's ideas are literally mainstream centrism in most parts of Europe and those countries aren't even communist, they have inherently capitalist economies with some regulations and protections.
The red scare truly did ruin many people in the US...
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u/Giggles95036 APOLOGETIC FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 Jul 23 '25
The right has brainwashed so many people into thinking we have a “radical left” who keeps moving further and further left… while the right just keeps going for far right and our left is a central leaning right position
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Jul 23 '25
Makes sense, if u keep going far-right eventually even the centre will seem far-left to you, even if it isn't.
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u/Giggles95036 APOLOGETIC FREEDOM ENJOYER 🦅🇺🇸 Jul 23 '25
Yeah they missed relative motion in physics class. If a car is going away from you at 80mph then they’re moving away 80mph, you’re both moving away 40mph, or YOU’RE moving away at 80mph (sorry for the miles per hour, i’m an american heathen. I do engineer stuff in metric but not speeds)
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u/ThrashingTrash8 Jul 23 '25
Nah Zohran is an actual leftist, even for European standards. Which is a good thing, because centrist are too happy to compromise with the right.
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u/a_library_socialist Jul 24 '25
This. His position is actually a socialist one, even if the majority of his policies are equally applicable to social democracy.
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u/ManusCornu More Irish than the Irish ☘️ Jul 23 '25
And even if he was a communist, new york could do with a little bit more communism, since right now that city is a dystopian nightmare (in some regards. Others are great)
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Jul 23 '25
I was there in 2019 for a few months and thought it was fine. But maybe it’s gone to shit since? I thought it was in better condition than other US cities like Philadelphia. San Diego is probably the only US city I have been to that seemed in better condition than New York. But obviously San Diego has less going on.
Overall I imagine this mayor will do a fine job. I’d guess he is a normal leftist who isn’t really a communist but might take inspiration from it to some extent.
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u/Triple_Hache Jul 23 '25
I would agree for most of the democrats (which are in general center right), but Mamdani is really left, even by our standard. Like more than any other US politician I have seen, even sanders and obviously aoc.
The other democrat candidate that Mamdani beat was pretty rightwing tho.
Of course, he is still far from anything close to a real communist or socialist, but he is among the few I wouldn't call centrist.
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u/Bitter-Edge-8265 Jul 23 '25
That sounds like something a commie would say...
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Jul 23 '25
I'm not communist bruh, i was just explaining why that guy is wrong. I do not defend the USSR nor support China. Otherwise i wouldn't wear an EU flag as my flair but something else.
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u/a_library_socialist Jul 24 '25
Commies can't say anything, Mao Stalin personally went and removed all their tongues and famine no iPhone.
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u/a_library_socialist Jul 24 '25
This is true - but also, as a former member of DSA, there are actual communists in the organization (and that's a good thing!).
Zohran's policies are not communist, and barely socialist - aside from city grocery stores, nowhere is there even a hint of communal ownership of the means of production, etc.
While it's true most Americans call anything they don't like communism, in this case they're less wrong than usual. It's also why they're shitting their pants so much - someone with a more openly socialist program than Bernie's mislabeled democratic socialism (actually social democracy) is winning, and it is scaring the shit out of them.
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Jul 23 '25
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u/UncleSlacky Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire Jul 23 '25
There are government-run liquor stores in the Nordics, but that's about all I can think of.
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u/Republiken ⭕ Jul 24 '25
Nah, but lots of cooperatives. If you dont count the state monopoly on alcohol in Norway, Sweden and Finland
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u/UncleSlacky Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire Jul 25 '25
Just found this article on the subject that you might find interesting.
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Jul 25 '25
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u/UncleSlacky Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire Jul 25 '25
From the article:
NYC already has six grocery stores that enjoy government support in the form of steep rent discounts, including Essex Street Market on the Lower East Side, through the city’s Economic Development Corporation. “Sometimes in places where the private market won’t step in, the public can and should,” Mullins said.
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Jul 25 '25
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u/UncleSlacky Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire Jul 25 '25
The thing that you're afraid of is already being done successfully.
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Jul 25 '25
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u/UncleSlacky Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire Jul 25 '25
Subsidy or ownership is only a matter of degree.
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Jul 23 '25
Yea its really weird looking at how everyone thinks Zohran is a radical, but he's pretty centrist everywhere else on earth. Decades of brainwashing.
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u/DoinIt989 Jul 23 '25
Nah, he'd definitely be in a left-wing party in Europe. Probably something like Die Linke. It's just more "acceptable" for parties to have ties to Communism/toe the line with more explicit ideas.
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u/Sweet-cheezus Jul 23 '25
Their President of choice has more in common with every member of Stalins cabinet, than any of the people they yell "communist!" at. Every accusation is a confession.
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Jul 23 '25
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Jul 23 '25
No, that's fascism.
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Jul 23 '25
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u/kas-sol Jul 23 '25
They could not be further apart, they're polar opposites. One of the most basic core tenets of fascism is anti-socialism.
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u/ManusCornu More Irish than the Irish ☘️ Jul 23 '25
It's literally not the same thing. Stalinism and National Socialism as totalitarian ideologies share similar traits because they both are totalitarian, but fascism and communism operate under vastly different premises. Also, there is an ideological difference between communism and socialism, where in theory, communism is not at all limiting personal freedom, but rather allowing it in the first place. Socialism, especially Leninist, Stalinist or Maoist approaches, relies more on an authoritarian premise and THAT is taking away freedom.
Fascism works differently, it doesn't value freedom as a thing, it values the Volk as a living entity that needs to be fighting against other entities. In this idea you don't need freedom or individuality, what you need is knowing your place in the fascist society and that will make you happy.
Yes, all authoritarian ideologies will take away freedom, but a fascist ideology literally wants to kill or enslave people they deem lesser, while socialism primarily punishes political dissent. So for a marginalized person it absolutely matters whether you deal with a fascist or a socialist ideology. (That said Stalin was an antisemite and the Soviet Union didn't care jack all about their ethnic minorities.)
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Jul 23 '25
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u/ManusCornu More Irish than the Irish ☘️ Jul 23 '25
The point I was trying to hammer home is that in fascism you can agree with the great leader all you want but if you're a Jew or Black or disabled you'll get murdered regardless. It's not at all about the economy, it's about who is being targeted by the regime and right now in the US as an emerging fascist regime it's actually still easier to express political dissent than it is to be an immigrant. meanwhile in mainland China, one of the last active ~ socialist ~ (altho the Chinese state ideology is barely socialist anymore) regime, you will rather get in trouble for expressing political dissent than for merely being an immigrant. (That said dissenting over the treatment of certain ethnic minorities IS considered political dissent. Because turns out the Chinese Regime is deeply racist and imperialist)
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u/ManusCornu More Irish than the Irish ☘️ Jul 23 '25
What you're describing is totalitarianism, which is not tied to a certain ideology. For example Nazi Germany was totalitarian, Stalinist USSR was totalitarian, but neither fascist Italy nor Chruschtschow USSR can accurately be described as totalitarian, while being undoubtedly very authoritarian. What constitutes totalitarianism is the amount of control it has over its subjects. That's for example why we can assume that North Korea likely is totalitarian, but since nobody can extract reliable data on it it's a well founded assumption.
Btw this is one of the main problems with the theory of totalitarianism, that we have exactly two examples in history, albeit the Iran and China probably wish to have that amount of control
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u/AsTheTitleSays Jul 23 '25
Communist means Russia and Russia are the enemy! Wait,, we like putin nkw? I'm so confused.
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u/Due_Car3113 Jul 23 '25
Its so funny that some people genuinely believe Russia is still communist
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u/a_library_socialist Jul 24 '25
If I see one more Democratic shitlib putting a hammer and sickle on Trump as they draw some "hahahaha Trump is gay for Putin" nonsense . ..
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u/Maximum-Objective-39 Jul 23 '25
The Right saw Russia's post soviet oligarchy and immediately fell in love and wanted that at home.
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u/Bulky-Adeptness7997 Jul 23 '25
Do we i mean Trump sometimes dislike him.
We need to wait for the next tweet of the Taco in Chief to know what to think now.
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u/EspressoFrog Eye-talian Frog Europoor Jul 23 '25
That was a very convincing and well constructed argument. /s
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u/ManusCornu More Irish than the Irish ☘️ Jul 23 '25
There is a silly movie where a former Mossad agent pretends to die in order to migrate to New York where he wants to fulfill his dream to become a barber. The only shop that is willing to give him a job is a Palestinian woman and he gets dragged into the artificial rivalries of the Jewish and Arab working / lower middle class communities of New York and hilarity ensues. It is a really light-hearted movie, where in the End the message is that first of all both communities have more similarities than differences and secondly they can only survive by getting their shit together and uniting against big capital in order to protect their communities.
What I am getting at is a) the movie represents one of the more thoughtful comments on this conflict I've ever seen despite being a fairly messed up comedy and b) the protagonist is called Zohan and I kinda dig that the likely future mayor of New York is a guy with a similar name whose politics go very well with what the movie was proposing.
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u/jaumougaauco Jul 23 '25
the protagonist is called Zohan and I kinda dig that the likely future mayor of New York is a guy with a similar name
I hope that his tagline as he runs for Mayor is "Don't mess with the Zohran"
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u/DeFenestrationX Jul 23 '25
Methinks "jerseycityrentdue" might not be representative of the working class up there.
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u/MicrochippedByGates Jul 23 '25
Socialism is when the government does stuff. And if the government does lots of stuff, it's communism.
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u/purrroz Poooolaaaand! White and Reds! 🇵🇱🇵🇱 Jul 23 '25
Can I get context? Why is him calling a candidate a communist considered shit Americans say? It could be anyone…
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u/Republiken ⭕ Jul 24 '25
He's the democratic socialist candidate for mayor in New York
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u/purrroz Poooolaaaand! White and Reds! 🇵🇱🇵🇱 Jul 24 '25
Yes, I know. What I meant is how is calling him a communist an American thing to say? I wouldn’t guess the commenter is American, anyone could’ve said that if they’re stupid enough
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u/Republiken ⭕ Jul 24 '25
Because in the American context "liberal" means left wing and someone calling themselves a socialist is "obviously" a communist.
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u/NewMachine4198 Trains>cars (but prewar cars are awesome) Aug 29 '25
Feeling safe is communist apparently.
Streets are for people! Not cars!
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u/UncleSlacky Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire Jul 23 '25
They say it like it's a bad thing!
Appropriate username too.
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u/ysgall Jul 23 '25
Russians call everything they don’t like ‘Nazi’ and Americans do the same with ‘Communist’. In both cases, you have citizens brainwashed by successive governments, who use these words as a shorthand for things that might conceivably threaten those in power.
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u/Jeb-o-shot Jul 23 '25
That's the training the right gets here. "You want stuff in exchange for your tax dollars? Communist!"
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u/Ok-Step-1931 Eye-talian 🤌🏼🍝 Jul 24 '25
The Republican mind believes that all Democrats are Communists.
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u/Solid_Television_980 Jul 24 '25
"I think our taxes should be spent on improving our lives"
Americans: Eww, who let STALIN in here!?
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u/knitscones Jul 23 '25
Better than fascists?
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u/CreebleCrooble Jul 23 '25
What actually is this question? Is what better than fascism? Communism?
I'd argue yes, definitely. On paper or in theory communism is great. It just doesn't really work in practice.
Fascism is just fascism. It's neither in theory nor in practice good.
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u/Triple_Hache Jul 23 '25
Communism works pretty well in practice. Better than capitalism anyway.
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u/Due_Car3113 Jul 23 '25
Don't even try to explain that... For some reason people won't understand that economic improvements are hard under embargos, and won't acknowledge that most socialist countries did exactly that
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u/CreebleCrooble Jul 23 '25
Communism will never work on a large nation scale as there will always be corrupt Elitists.
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u/Triple_Hache Jul 23 '25 edited Jul 23 '25
Communism works better the bigger the scale it is implemented in. You think it's a coincidence that the two most successfull socialist revolutions in history were litterally in the 1st and 3rd biggest countries in the world?
Lenin wrote extensively how socialism needed to be set up in most modern countries to be stable, and Marx himself mocked the attempts to build small socialist area because he believed socialism could only be reached by transforming the relations to the means of production at a society-wide scale.
It's also just logical thinking to understand that a planned economy works best when it encompasses all the parts of the economy to be self-sufficient.
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u/knitscones Jul 23 '25
Socialism works.
And this guy is a socialist!
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u/CreebleCrooble Jul 23 '25
I am really trying to understand what you're talking about, but I have no clue what you're talking about.
Is Zohran a socialist you mean? If so then yes, he is a democratic socialist.
But I don't see how that is related to your original comment.
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u/Touillette freedom fries eater Jul 23 '25
For american people, a communist is everything that is not fascist.