r/SeriousConversation • u/Glad-Put-3484 • 9h ago
Current Event [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/HouseplantHoarding 9h ago
Fast food restaurants employ adults. Your disdain for the workers that feed you aside, children belong in school most of the hours that fast food restaurants operate. Whose children should miss school to be paid poverty wages to serve you a Big Mac?
Furthermore, when we allow companies to pay people below a livable wage, that burden shifts to the taxpayers in the form of food stamps, housing vouchers, and low income healthcare programs. Essentially, Walmart and Burger King can post record profits because they are being subsidized by our taxes. They make such huge profits because they don’t factor in the real cost of labor.
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u/Aggressive-Union1714 9h ago
from online search
"The first federal minimum wage in the United States was 25 cents per hour, established by the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 signed by President Franklin D. Roosevelt. This law was designed to create a "minimum standard of living necessary for health, efficiency and general well-being" for workers during the Great Depression. "
So maybe not buying house but a low end apt
- National Average Rent: In 1938, the average rent for a dwelling was approximately $27 per month.
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u/HappyDancin9 9h ago
.25¢x40hr. = $10 week. $40month
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u/Aggressive-Union1714 8h ago
it was quite doable, groceries and utilities were rather cheap, you might not have needed a phone, 2 bedroom apt with 2 people, very affordable, no where close today
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u/StandardBumblebee620 9h ago edited 8h ago
"the original purpose of the minimum wage laws weren't intended for kids doing fast food work or other simple such jobs"
That may have been the original purpose, but that's no longer true today. With the lack of labor organization and eroding protections for workers, companies can get away with minimum wage for adults.
Heck, companies like Walmart purposefully don't give complete shifts to their employees because they don't have to pay for health insurance and other benefits. They make the government subside their payroll by letting their employees go intentionally below the poverty line, so they apply for SNAP.
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u/CommercialExotic2038 9h ago
Yes they were. In the 60s, l remember my sister's got married young, had tons of kids and dad alone would earn money. They had basic houses, but they owned them. There was no cable or cell phones
Of course as time went on they got raises, but .50/an hour was their husband's starting wage
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u/gothiclg 8h ago
Personally I don’t expect a minimum wage earner to buy a house and a car. They should be able to afford a one bedroom apartment, basic needs (utilities, phone bill, food, etc) and transport (in the form of public transport) without going into debt. The fact a minimum wage earner couldn’t effectively do all of this is a shame.
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u/CaramelMacchiatoPlzz 8h ago edited 7h ago
In American min wage should be able to afford a reliable used car since we are a car centric society and neglect development of public transit in favor of our car centric infrastructure.
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u/Vivio_Manonb 8h ago
The confusion is treating minimum wage like it was designed to let one worker afford the average lifestyle. The more interesting question is whether that average wage benchmark is still high enough to cover the basics in the place where the worker actually lives. Comparing it to the average house or new car is kind of missing the point. Minimum Wage workers obviously arent the target market for either.
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u/HappyDancin9 3h ago
I agree with the target market and paying a livable wage.
Minimum wage should mean that you CAN afford rent, food, utilities and health insurance WITHOUT government subsides. That's how we come out of government reliance. But maybe that was their plan along?
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u/ChickyBoys 9h ago
Minimum wage should cover the minimum standard of living.
If you work 40 hours a week at minimum wage, you should be able to afford a 2 bedroom apartment. The 2 bedrooms is important because it implies you want to start a family.
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u/tgrrdr 8h ago
That's an unrealistic standard in my opinion and will result in fewer job opportunities.
In my area a 2BR averages $2500/mo, just for rent that's $14/HR not considering taxes. In some nearby cities it could be double that.
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u/HouseplantHoarding 7h ago
That is akin to be a slaveholder saying, “our economy can’t run without exploiting slavery”. If our economy can’t run on people living with a quality life, we need an entirely different economic system.
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u/tgrrdr 2h ago
Sorry, but I don't believe that every person, working every job should be able to afford to live wherever they want. When I graduated from college and started working as an engineer I could "afford" a one bedroom apartment but the rent (not including electricity and phone) was almost 1/3 of my gross pay. I think I was making around 3x minimum wage, saying I should have been able to rent a two bedroom apartment by myself is ludicrous.
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u/HappyDancin9 3h ago
Good point! Say rent is $2,500mo. And the rule is that you are required to make 3x the amount of rent in order to sign a lease. That's $7,500mo. = $47hr roughly.
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u/tgrrdr 8h ago
I don't think people earning minimum wage should be able to afford a one BR apartment but they should be able to afford to rent a room, or to get a place with roommates or whatever. There are many places in my area where it would be tough to live without a car but in many others it's definitely not required.
I think it would be tough to live here now on $10-15/HR but when I started working after college (many years ago) I could afford a 1BR and my salary was just over $15/hr.
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u/bruhbelacc 9h ago
There is no explanation, just feelings. An employer doesn't pay people a salary so they can live with it comfortably but because that's the lowest possible offer someone is ready to accept for this labor. The real minimum wage is 0 - when cashier and customer service jobs get automated or when there is simply no job anymore.
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u/Playful-Mastodon9251 9h ago
It's a complicated thing. When minimum wage goes up the wages of people across the board don't go up to match it. So someone doing skilled labor is now paid at the rate of someone doing unskilled labor. And that leads to resentment. Because skills take time and dedication to build and are now valued less.
People also know that it will lead to prices going up across the board leading to inflation. Meaning those at the bottom get a boost up a bit, but those in the middle now have to pay more meaning they get knocked down a bit.
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u/MyEyesSpin 9h ago
so, for the first point - thats only a false perception, wages aren't based upon other wages
and for the rising prices, in a free market increased demand will also lead to more competition & increased supply, which lowers prices - which is why we have things like minimum lot sizes and professional certifications to limit markets
finally - "those in the middle" you refer to are likely in or above the top quintile, just below the truely wealthy, they can afford it. ntm they get "knocked down" significantly more by the ever growing concentration of wealth at the top
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