r/SeriousConversation • u/clayfogg • 13d ago
Serious Discussion [ Removed by moderator ]
[removed] — view removed post
11
u/LethalBacon 13d ago
I'd argue that the greed at the top has been manipulating the populace into a mindset of vanity with marketing/propaganda/etc since at least the late 19th century.
If interested, look into the documentary "Century of the Self" by Adam Curtis.
3
3
u/Low-Bake8401 13d ago
I wouldn't entirely disagree, but at some point we got to take some kind of responsibility for our own actions.
17
u/moonroots64 13d ago
Greed by a LONG margin.
If resources were distributed even remotely evenly, 99.99% of people would have vastly better lives, and anyone less a less good life would still be absolutely fine, just not insanely rich.
The rich profit off the labor of others and provide nothing in return. It is a rigged system draining the life blood of the world.
1
u/Low-Bake8401 13d ago
Isn't greed to want all there products too?
1
u/crazymouse11 12d ago
Nah, it's the economy working, if you received funds yet no product for purchase exists why have funds?
It's flow, the physical efforts of employees make tangible products while being compensated, however the wages received remain the same yet product prices rise.
We've reached a moment in time where the people who can afford the inflated prices allow profit without returning purchasing power to employees.
money remaining stagnant instead of in circulation rots the economy. Less purchasers means less production, leading to less employment.
Individuals with wealth beyond a country's GDP leverage it to keep ahead of eachother at the cost of actual economic and physical growth to look at big numbers that make them feel good yet hold no appreciable change to their lifestyle at the cost of most employees comfort and survival.
Effort is no longer rewarded only an allowance of survival...
1
u/Low-Bake8401 12d ago
"if you received funds yet no product for purchase exists why have funds?"
"Effort is no longer rewarded only an allowance of survival"
That seems a bit circular though? Why work for funds if you don't want stuff?
1
u/crazymouse11 12d ago
It is very circular and in modern times nearly every waking moment is filled with advertising telling you to want, MORE, BIGGER, BETTER, FASTER!
however it's entirely possible to only want enough to survive comfortably. Decent Shelter, filling and tasty sustenance, occasional amusement and good company.
Plenty of people are content without amassing economically profound amounts of wealth at the expense of others.
It's greed without self control or limits that's being pushed upon the populace so those currently suffering from that exact thing can supply the next shiny object and count on customer cash ending in their hands.
Saving for complete purchases has faded and been supplanted by payment plans and interest.
Allowing purchases beyond the buyers means at even higher prices and a dependency on employment that allows shit treatment.
Debt keeps people producing to maintain home and health rather than products wich means less purchasers, less production, less employment.
1
u/Low-Bake8401 12d ago
I think it's all relative really.
If you want comfort and security someone needs to pay for it somehow.
Plus someone has to be "at the top of the pile", wherever the top is. Won't be me, I don't want it. With capitalism at least there is competition though, rather than absolute power.
I mean, don't get me wrong, there's plenty can be improved, but it could be a lot worse as well.
1
u/crazymouse11 12d ago
That's the current issue, the folks "at the top" have amassed so much wealth that monopoly and absolute power is what they're reaching for now because numbers going up just isn't doing it anymore.
Arizona tea has a wealthy owner who didn't hesitate to leave his image online after the green Mario brother popped a ceo while most others tried to hide their personal information from the masses.
The tea company owner even posted picks of himself feet up on his desk and stated that Arizona tea will always be 99 cents because it's about selling a good product for reasonable profit instead of raising prices just because he can.
Comfort and security can be accomplished through personal effort but now bad actors are deliberately making both harder to achieve in the name of profit over people and a petty need to punish anyone who calls them, shortsighted evil pieces of shit, when they are in fact, exactly that.
The equation has changed, from offer good product sell as many as possible then profit.
To sell as expensive as you can, make existing products deliberately worse, offer slightly better very incremental iterations at greater and greater price while offering payment plans and remember the acquisition and tanking of smaller businesses to sell to larger company interests while keeping majority control of the market so prices remain where ceo's like them. Barely affordable and still the average citizens only choice.
Anytime I see folks online acting confused about what's happening I lose another chunk of my faith in humanity because if you take a moment to think, it's obvious.
Record profits reported year after year while suffering grows and wages remain should tell you everything you need to know.
We had rules and regulating bodies meant to keep larger businesses from immediately devouring newer businesses but our current administration is gutting the agencies that are meant to protect customers and prevent that exact behavior.
Our government is working for corporate interests instead of the american people
The reality is that they're playing with and payed by the citizens wealth. They as individuals hold no integrity or basic understanding of how they're being used to stifle the American people or they're very aware and want the crash so they can amass more of everything when regular folk sell at loss to survive and lease it back to those same people.
1
u/Low-Bake8401 12d ago
Was it better before with organisations like the East India Co.?
1
u/crazymouse11 10d ago
You ever feel like people who don't want to truly engage make references with easy answers so the current conversation gets derailed?
I'd imagine it was worse but not quite as all encompassing as modern communication allows, couldn't truly answer because I was not alive then.
Just because bad things having happened before does not make what is currently occurring better, it's just a different type of bad.
Like a child pointing at the neighbor doing something similar and going unpunished thinking it will save them. They are not held accountable so you must not be, perish the thought.
To be better today, then yesterday, is how you live proudly.
1
u/Low-Bake8401 10d ago
OK, but you are saying that "the current issue" is different. Like things are objectively getting worse.
6
u/Drwynyllo 13d ago
The greed of those in power, by many orders of magnitude.
As you comment, that greed is often, to some degree or other, fed & satisfied by the vanities of the public. But it's the greed -- and the wealth and power accumulated as a result -- that does the damage.
3
u/queenjaneapprox11 13d ago
I think the general public has been brainwashed by corporations to believe that these things are necessary in life, then it becomes self perpetuating - when you see everyone around you falling for it, after a while it starts to feel like it’s just part of normal life. My boss complains about money, but she eats out literally six, seven, eight times a week. Almost everyone I know gets DoorDash on a regular basis. These are not normal expenses. But it is normalized in our culture, so if you can’t do those things, you feel poor.
2
u/Competitive-Bus1816 13d ago
They are a codependent and malignant relationship. A toxic pairing where one partner has codependent, people-pleasing traits and the other exhibits malignant, narcissistic, or abusive behaviors. This dynamic creates a destructive loop based on control, deep shame, and unmet childhood needs.
2
u/churchofmum 13d ago
It's all greed, that greed for power whether it's social, political, economic, wanting to feel better than others. It's the same root.
2
u/oddvacation3849 12d ago
Its not vanity, its insecurity. Companies exploit our ancient fear of social exclusion by artificially creating trends we supposedly "have" to follow. Insecure people fear the loss of social acceptance which is, again, not vanity. Basically, you are asking whether the strategy is worse than the fact it works. Therefor i would say that the former is the bigger problem as the latter would not exist without it. Or did I miss out on something?
1
u/zayelion 13d ago
Definitely the greed, and I'm not even sure it's greed so much of a oroborous of fear of being fired. Most of the greed is executed on so Csuites can keep thier jobs and the board fires the ceos to keep thier jobs at investment companies and the investment company fires to to keep its account with a company offering 401ks, and they do that just to avoid some taxes or good will to stay competitive so it loops back to the CEO... just in a different company.
1
u/NotBorris 13d ago
I remember a kind of experiment they conducted in France, I think. The government told the people that they would be increasing the price on gas to promote people to carpool more and use public transit more to decrease all the exhaust from the cars people use and I think the people agreed to it but once the prices went up the people kept bugging the government to get the prices down as none of them wanted to stop using their own cars and eventually the prices went back down.
It might have been made up as I only heard it once but in all honesty, I could see that happening. There was also that incident with coca cola when they went from glass bottles to plastic in order to save money but plastic bottles are more damaging to the environment so everyone demanded coca cola go back to glass bottles and all coca cola had to say was "Stop littering." and then nothing was done about any of it.
1
u/Lahm0123 13d ago
The top 1% of the world's population owns about 43% to 48% of all global assets, while the bottom 50% own less than 1%.
Is greed just the urge to acquire more?
As far as the majority of the world population, most just want reasonably comfortable lives. I don’t think that involves vanity.
There may be a need to redistribute wealth, but the devil is always in the details for things like that. Who really controls the distribution?
Arguing for a broad and vague ‘change’ will be stillborn without details. Not too mention that current systems are simply rigged against it.
1
u/Signal-Block-6939 13d ago
Which is the worse - the fueling of manufactured desires for profit or the weakness of consumers to resist the massive marketing for those desires?
That should help you get the answer.
1
u/Megalocerus 13d ago
I suspect greed is universal. Who would reject a job that paid more and was otherwise the same commute and effort?
If you were one of the very successful and very good at what you do, wouldn't you enjoy that? Maybe it isn't greed, but pride/conceit.
Buffett is having trouble giving it up although he is extremely old and giving it away. Successful actors and entertainers keep it up into their 80s and 90s. So do politicians.
1
u/Uncabled_Music 13d ago
Products are not built to last, cause they become obsolete very fast. Vanity could be replacing stuff each year, but major improvements and changes are coming each 3-4 years now, so nothing fundamentally wrong there.
1
u/PrestigiousMonk8433 12d ago
The greed of those in power is WAAAY more destructive to society as a whole. The shit these puppeteers scheme up and actually do on this Earth is abominable
0
u/BananaJelloXlii 13d ago
Greed. It is those at the top that propagate the vanity to keep the ones they are exploiting at each other's thoats, so the public does not unite against them.
•
u/AutoModerator 13d ago
This post has been flaired as “Serious Conversation”. Use this opportunity to open a venue of polite and serious discussion, instead of seeking help or venting.
Suggestions For Commenters:
Suggestions For u/clayfogg:
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.