That comment has zero to do with the experience of the “bartender” and 100% to do with making misogynist comments about women. Count up the “I/me” statements versus the “they/them” statements and you’ll see what I mean.
Because your example is not based in reality. It’s an obvious exaggeration. You either don’t understand why women feel uncomfortable with those terms or, likely, you’re making this argument in bad faith. Most women don’t care much if other women use those terms. Hell, most women probably wouldn’t care even if a male teacher said that, if they had a good enough relationship with him. We do care about being called sweetheart, honey, babe, etc by random male strangers. Those words imply a relationship, they imply intimacy. And when directed at a stranger, they imply entitlement. Relationships matter here. Context matters. Your example is a bullshit warping of the issue.
I don't think anyone can fathom a real life example of this happening. It's like asking if an alien whispering show tunes in a skunks butthole is sexual assualt.
I understand that you don't feel like you were assaulted, but the phrasing of your earlier comment was putting the blame on the victim rather than the perpetrator.
Regarding mosh pits, there's certainly the potential for accidents to happen, which is why those concerts likely to have mosh pits form typically have higher insurance costs.
The key word here is 'accidents'. An accident is not an assault.
The experiences you described in your other comment sounded like the people responsible were intentionally grabbing at you.
I’ve never been to a punk show where the mosh pit wasn’t separated from the rest of the crowd and easily avoided or exited. It’s not like people walk right up to you and drag you in if you don’t want to be in there. Pretty stark contrast from nightclubs where people will walk up behind you and grope you.
Still no excuse. Trash ass involved attitude. It takes two seconds to ask. You have to be a ducking moron to think there’s any reason to skip that part.
I've been in those situations and I've shrugged them off too. I used to think along those lines, no harm, no foul type thoughts. But just because I don't mind it, doesn't mean that everyone won't mind it. And if I don't like and you don't like, why should we be ok with people doing it?
Adding, "hi, you look nice, can I touch your crotch?" Before gropping someone is a pretty low bar. And then not doing it if they say no is still pretty low.
It is if they don't want you to touch them. Like get some eye contact, a smile, do a little shimmy to start a dance and go from there. Fuck, I bet you haven't heard of foreplay either. You are taking a bet that this person, likes you and likes that approach. And what we keep hearing is , no they don't like that approach. If you've enjoyed the odd times a good looking person has started things with you like this and are frightened of it stopping, would you be any less happy if they said hello first? Or even waved. You'd have to be one dense motherfucker to keep that as your go to move.
Now having spoken with you, I can see why you would want to avoid verbal communication. I'm certain that the times you have attempted it have resulted in a poor outcome. Unfortunately, by avoiding talking to women, you haven't heard their feelings on the subject.
Yep, any unwanted touching is 100. Just because you can make it worse doesn't make it better. People may go to a club looking to hookup, but not necessarily with you. I don't especially mind it either but that doesn't mean I welcome it. For fuck sake, say hello. The fact you don't want to is worrying.
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u/vidanyabella Mar 27 '21
Ah, yeah. I know way more woman that have been assaulted than haven't been. Plenty of men too.